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Kalman posted:How do you think FinCEN (which is part of Treasury, meaning they're probably the ones who actually talked to Toyota) figure out which individual dealers to talk to? Do you think maybe they ask Toyota about which dealer received specific VINs, and for other details of how vehicles are distributed? There's a good chance it was OFAC rather than FinCEN talking to Toyota because FinCEN deals with financial crimes and not much in the way of goods being delivered. Once they determine how and where the vehicles are being purchased, FinCEN should be able to tack down who is doing the buying. The only unique information Toyota is probably going to be able to provide is regional at best, since collecting the records from regional dealers will be quicker and inclusive of more of the trail. They've [Toyota] even said the vehicle models seen in pictures all over social media are older, meaning if they even retained the original dealer delivery information after this long there's a fair chance the trail goes cold there. They're better off monitoring banks in Monterey Park and seizing any accounts sending and receiving wires larger than $40k with more than one beneficiary party.
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Oct 8, 2015 01:10
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If South Korea and Japan had America-loose gun laws there's no way their already high suicide rates wouldn't be even worse.
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Oct 8, 2015 01:18
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 lol e: wrong thread, but my point still stands exmarx fucked around with this message at 01:21 on Oct 8, 2015 |
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Oct 8, 2015 01:19
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zoux posted:As little as you think we know about guns, that's how little you know about the causes and prevention of suicide. You obviously haven't even bothered to google "suicide effectiveness by method" as poison is counted along with overdoses and still is less than 2% effective.
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Oct 8, 2015 01:21
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lmao
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Oct 8, 2015 01:21
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Dead Reckoning posted:Depends on the poison. In the U.S., most attempts are made with pills. In other countries, particularly rural communities, ingestion of pesticides is more common. Parquat is over 60% effective. Well, considering this is the USPOL thread, and the conversation was regarding suicide method effectiveness in the US...
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Oct 8, 2015 01:24
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Dead Reckoning posted:Depends on the poison. In the U.S., most attempts are made with pills. In other countries, particularly rural communities, ingestion of pesticides is more common. Parquat is over 60% effective. Okay, so you acknowledge that reducing gun access and prevalence would reduce the suicide rate?
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Oct 8, 2015 01:24
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icantfindaname posted:Okay, so you acknowledge that reducing gun access and prevalence would reduce the suicide rate? Rate of fatal suicide attempts.
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Oct 8, 2015 01:28
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FAUXTON posted:There's a good chance it was OFAC rather than FinCEN talking to Toyota because FinCEN deals with financial crimes and not much in the way of goods being delivered. Once they determine how and where the vehicles are being purchased, FinCEN should be able to tack down who is doing the buying. The only unique information Toyota is probably going to be able to provide is regional at best, since collecting the records from regional dealers will be quicker and inclusive of more of the trail. They've [Toyota] even said the vehicle models seen in pictures all over social media are older, meaning if they even retained the original dealer delivery information after this long there's a fair chance the trail goes cold there. They're better off monitoring banks in Monterey Park and seizing any accounts sending and receiving wires larger than $40k with more than one beneficiary party. What even are you arguing, that they shouldn't talk to Toyota at all for uh, reasons, even though Toyota has produced the Hilux for decades well aware that it is a tool of insurgency and war? There's even a war called the Toyota War for fucks sake. Is an inquiry such a horrific burden they should just get hosed or what in God's name is your point
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Oct 8, 2015 01:31
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Exclamation Marx posted:
Haha gently caress you Obam- wait what?
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Oct 8, 2015 01:31
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Nintendo Kid posted:If South Korea and Japan had America-loose gun laws there's no way their already high suicide rates wouldn't be even worse. I like the story, probably from Freakanomics, about how the year after a popular movie in Japan that featured a suicide using a non-common method, the number of suicides increased by the number of people committing suicide by that method. Meaning these were people who wouldn't have (successfully) committed suicide otherwise.
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Oct 8, 2015 01:33
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Dead Reckoning posted:Depends on the poison. In the U.S., most attempts are made with pills. In other countries, particularly rural communities, ingestion of pesticides is more common. Parquat is over 60% effective. Thanks for bringing up a really good example http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0128980 quote:The annual suicide rate in South Korea is the highest among the developed countries. Paraquat is a highly lethal herbicide, commonly used in South Korea as a means for suicide. We have studied the effect of the 2011 paraquat prohibition on the national suicide rate and method of suicide in South Korea. We obtained the monthly suicide rate from 2005 to 2013 in South Korea. In our analyses, we adjusted for the effects of celebrity suicides, and economic, meteorological, and seasonal factors on suicide rate. We employed change point analysis to determine the effect of paraquat prohibition on suicide rate over time, and the results were verified by structural change analysis, an alternative statistical method. After the paraquat prohibition period in South Korea, there was a significant reduction in the total suicide rate and suicide rate by poisoning with herbicides or fungicides in all age groups and in both genders. The estimated suicide rates during this period decreased by 10.0% and 46.1% for total suicides and suicides by poisoning of herbicides or fungicides, respectively. In addition, method substitution effect of paraquat prohibition was found in suicide by poisoning by carbon monoxide, which did not exceed the reduction in the suicide rate of poisoning with herbicides or fungicides. In South Korea, paraquat prohibition led to a lower rate of suicide by paraquat poisoning, as well as a reduction in the overall suicide rate. Paraquat prohibition should be considered as a national suicide prevention strategy in developing and developed countries alongside careful observation for method substitution effects.
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Oct 8, 2015 01:34
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Dead Reckoning posted:Can you explain why Japan and South Korea have higher suicides rates than the U.S. then? Means of suicide are often culturally driven, but suicide itself exists across cultures. If you magic-wanded away all guns tomorrow, you'd probably see a dip, but it would trend back up as people moved on to insecticide or exit bags or whatever. More to the point, why focus on guns when more general suicide prevention strategies and mental health treatment are more likely to be effective and agnostic to method? Because there's more than one factor at play here, no poo poo suicide can still happen without a gun. Jesus Christ. The knots you people will tie yourselves in to protect your killing toys are absurd.
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Oct 8, 2015 01:36
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Lemming posted:Thanks for bringing up a really good example Guns are different *waves hands in front of you mysteriously*
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Oct 8, 2015 01:37
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A Winner is Jew posted:You joke, but this is literally what a ton of preachers will tell you the punishment for Cain was since it was made popular in the 1800's and lasted up until about 70-80 years ago. Until discriminatory practices threatened their tax exempt status. Then Jesus was totally cool with race mixing.
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Oct 8, 2015 01:37
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Owning a gun is a very deep and important thing to me, that's why it's very important that I be able to walk to the store and buy one immediately with as little oversight and regulation as possible.
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Oct 8, 2015 01:39
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Dapper_Swindler posted:whats webster's deal, other then i am assuming being a nutjob. The Washington Post did a short bio on Webster in January, when Jim Jordan and Gowdy tried to use him in their coup against Boehner. Webster has some conservative credentials, including close involvement with the Terri Schiavo case, but he is very much not not a Tea Party candidate. Webster is known for hosting bipartisan dinners and lamenting the polarization in Congress. Heritage gives him just a 77 on its conservative scorecard. His pitch for the position is to get Congress working together by reorganizing it on district lines rather than party lines. His pitch also involves decentralization, but he very much wants to resolve the ongoing deadlock. The Freedom Caucus's endorsement is very much a parliamentary move aimed at humiliating the establishment as opposed to an ideological pick. Webster's run was almost certainly motivated by a desire to give McCarthy some token opposition and to avoid allegations that Boehner was strong-arming the House into an establishment pick. Until today, Webster had no support whatsoever and was expected to get single-digit support on the House floor. He's a rank-and-file Congressman with no real leadership aspirations. It's telling that the Freedom Caucus didn't endorse Chaffetz, who is considerably more conservative and is running an actual campaign. While Chaffetz has a long-shot at the Speaker's podium, it's still a shot and the Freedom Caucus's endorsement could have theoretically snowballed into a full coup. By endorsing Webster, the Freedom Caucus ensures that no one will have enough votes in the Republican Party's secret ballot. I should also mention that all three candidates for Speaker met with the Freedom Caucus privately yesterday to give their pitch. I would suspect that McCarthy failed to offer enough concessions and the Caucus are using Webster to force McCarthy back to the negotiation table. McCarthy can concede to Freedom Caucus commands or watch his career explode brilliantly in front of the entire country.
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Oct 8, 2015 01:49
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People generally don't really want to kill themselves, so even minor obstacles can have great effect. For example barriers on bridges, or changes in pill packaging:quote:The research, published in the British Medical Journal today, shows that suicidal deaths from paracetamol and aspirin fell by 22 percentage points in the year after pack sizes were reduced in September 1998. The reduction in suicides continued over the next two years.
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Oct 8, 2015 01:49
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QuoProQuid posted:The Washington Post did a short bio on Webster in January, when Jim Jordan and Gowdy tried to use him in their coup against Boehner. Webster has some conservative credentials, including close involvement with the Terri Schiavo case, but he is very much not not a Tea Party candidate. Webster is known for hosting bipartisan dinners and lamenting the polarization in Congress. Heritage gives him just a 77 on its conservative scorecard. His pitch for the position is to get Congress working together by reorganizing it on district lines rather than party lines. His pitch also involves decentralization, but he very much wants to resolve the ongoing deadlock. so basically it will now probably drag out for a stupid amount of time.
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Oct 8, 2015 01:54
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Exclamation Marx posted:People generally don't really want to kill themselves, so even minor obstacles can have great effect. For example barriers on bridges, or changes in pill packaging: A little while back I was listening to interviews from some survivors of suicide attempts off the golden gate bridge and the one common element, without fail, was the immediate and irreversible regret they all had during the plunge. With the rare exception people would rather life just be better than be dead.
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Oct 8, 2015 02:02
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Dapper_Swindler posted:so basically it will now probably drag out for a stupid amount of time. p much. Essentially, the Tea Party is playing chicken with the Establishment. We joke about how the Freedom Caucus is full of raving loons but many members have embraced that image as a bargaining tool. The Freedom Caucus is using Nixon's Madman Theory. By making themselves seem irrational and volatile, they can exert substantial influence on House politics and force McCarthy to make agreements he would otherwise dismiss to avoid political catastrophe. The worst case scenario would be for McCarthy to call the Freedom Caucus's bluff and refuse to renegotiate. While the Freedom Caucus has endorsed Webster, actually voting for him is very different and the caucus might not be able to ensure discipline within its own ranks. If Webster calls their bluff and is wrong, then we'll see both McCarthy and the Freedom Caucus annihilate one another on the House floor.
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Oct 8, 2015 02:03
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They aren't playing chicken because they really want to shut the government down. In fact the leader of the freedom Caucus said today they aren't playing chicken. They are suicidal. Or a malignant cancer idk.
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Oct 8, 2015 02:06
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QuoProQuid posted:p much. That'll separate the wheat....from the Chaff. 
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Oct 8, 2015 02:06
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They're stuck. They've cultivated this madman image and sold it to their voters and now they have to stick to it or someone more insane will primary them.
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Oct 8, 2015 02:10
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Nintendo Kid posted:If South Korea and Japan had America-loose gun laws there's no way their already high suicide rates wouldn't be even worse. Nah, I bet Seppuku is plenty effective
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Oct 8, 2015 02:33
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Dead Reckoning posted:Depends on the poison. In the U.S., most attempts are made with pills. In other countries, particularly rural communities, ingestion of pesticides is more common. Parquat is over 60% effective. So if every person who attempts suicide with a gun instead uses a restricted availability pesticide, the survival rate will only more than double? Sounds great!
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Oct 8, 2015 02:36
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Filthy Hans posted:Nah, I bet Seppuku is plenty effective I thought hanging was the preferred method.
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Oct 8, 2015 02:38
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icantfindaname posted:Okay, so you acknowledge that reducing gun access and prevalence would reduce the suicide rate? i think he acknowledges it, but sees an increased suicide rate as just the blood that waters the tree of freedom it is well and good that veterans shoulder most of the burden of this effort, laying down their lives in the struggle against the national debt e: it is odd to me though that the most vocal and stubborn pro-gun poster ITT is also the most pro-human death. no, what's the opposite of odd? it makes total sense actually
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Oct 8, 2015 02:39
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Popular Thug Drink posted:i think he acknowledges it, but sees an increased suicide rate as just the blood that waters the tree of freedom Isn't "those that live by the sword will die by the sword" a commandment?
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Oct 8, 2015 02:42
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nachos posted:They're stuck. They've cultivated this madman image and sold it to their voters and now they have to stick to it or someone more insane will primary them. I bet that's pretty liberating.
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Oct 8, 2015 02:54
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Gravel Gravy posted:Isn't "those that live by the sword will die by the sword" a commandment? not a commandment, an observation. in the garden of gethsemane the sanhedrin guards rolled up after the bad judas (not thaddeus) frenched the christ and the first pope was not having this interruption of homo lust so he straight-up sliced off the ear of a guard. jesus (being famously forgiving) told him that was Not On and put the ear back on the guard with his god magic. jesus told off peter for being an idiot and said 'those who live by the sword, die by the sword'.
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Oct 8, 2015 02:54
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Boon posted:I bet that's pretty liberating. It'd be funny if we all weren't tied to the luggage rack.
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Oct 8, 2015 02:56
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James Garfield posted:So if every person who attempts suicide with a gun instead uses a restricted availability pesticide, the survival rate will only more than double? Sounds great! We don't need to look at other countries. We have a natural experiment in the U.S. already. MRA's make a big deal that the male suicide rate is significantly higher than the female in the U.S. They do not make a big deal of the fact that this statistic is because even though women are vastly more likely to attempt suicide we are conditioned socially to use ineffective methods like overdose and slitting ones wrists. Men, however, are vastly more likely to use guns to kill themselves. And guns are really effective, so they lead the body count even though they trail the attempts. I attempted suicide at 15 and slitting your wrists first of all is hard to do and secondly you've got to just sit there for an extended time not binding them while your adrenaline spikes and releases happy cutting endorphins that make you feel like things aren't that bad. If I'd had a gun I'd be dead.
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Oct 8, 2015 03:10
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McAlister posted:We don't need to look at other countries. We have a natural experiment in the U.S. already. MRA's make a big deal that the male suicide rate is significantly higher than the female in the U.S.  
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Oct 8, 2015 03:21
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Every time I see something about the high suicide number of veterans I like to point out that the military already investigated it and found that restricting their access to firearms worked pretty well. It's fun to see if they really care about ARE TROOPS more than ARE GUNS.
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Oct 8, 2015 03:30
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BUBBA GAY DUDLEY posted:Every time I see something about the high suicide number of veterans I like to point out that the military already investigated it and found that restricting their access to firearms worked pretty well. You got a link?
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Oct 8, 2015 03:33
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Wait so there may be a situation where no one get's elected speaker because of the Freedom Caucus or has the extreme right viewed this as their way to seize more power?
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Oct 8, 2015 03:34
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Hollismason posted:Wait so there may be a situation where no one get's elected speaker because of the Freedom Caucus or has the extreme right viewed this as their way to seize more power? Yes there are situations where no one gets elected on the first ballot. No, this doesn't mean we never have another speaker til next election, it just means the Democrats start to hold serious power
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Oct 8, 2015 03:37
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zoux posted:You got a link? http://www.stripes.com/news/experts-restricting-troops-access-to-firearms-is-necessary-to-reduce-rate-of-suicides-1.199216
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Oct 8, 2015 03:46
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Nintendo Kid posted:Yes there are situations where no one gets elected on the first ballot. No, this doesn't mean we never have another speaker til next election, it just means the Democrats start to hold serious power Elect Keith Ellison as Speaker, all the idiots commit suicide in fear of him implementing Sharia law, Congress gets back to giving handjobs to the rich.
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Oct 8, 2015 03:51
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