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The Vosgian Beast posted:Moldbug has a huge essay called "How Dawkins Got Pwned" I love that one. "Dawkins is a dirty prog who's secretly a cultural christian!"
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Oct 6, 2015 21:02
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They do have a lot to be grateful to Dawkins for, though, because the lovely groundless pseudoscience he developed in ignorance of all other fields that already covered what he was talking about is a workhorse and backbone for a lot of LW and NRx ideas.
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Oct 6, 2015 21:41
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Trig Discipline posted:about one in four brilliant academic biologists turn into absolute loving nutbars at around sixty, and will, if not physically restrained, hunker down and take repeated runny shits all over whatever legacy they may have had. see also margulles, watson, and to a lesser extent e.o. wilson
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Oct 6, 2015 22:47
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Somewhat related: Linus Pauling and Henry Heimlich, who believes that AIDS can be cured with malaria.
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Oct 6, 2015 23:20
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Jack Gladney posted:Somewhat related: Linus Pauling and Henry Heimlich, who believes that AIDS can be cured with malaria. Relevant Saturday Morning Breakfast Cereal comic: 
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Oct 6, 2015 23:39
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i laughed harder then i should have. but now i miss my dog 
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Oct 7, 2015 00:07
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The Vosgian Beast posted:Moldbug has a huge essay called "How Dawkins Got Pwned" Yeah, that's the epic mentioned in the RationalWiki article. Being Moldbug the closest he can come up with is to spend 37,000 words proving, step by step, strand by strand, that Dawkins is a ... cultural Christian!!! Something Dawkins has spoken of at length frequently. Well done, Moldbug. The Vosgian Beast posted:They do have a lot to be grateful to Dawkins for, though, because the lovely groundless pseudoscience he developed in ignorance of all other fields that already covered what he was talking about is a workhorse and backbone for a lot of LW and NRx ideas. Uh, you're going to have to join the dots on that one, and specifically the dots to make up for where LW and NRx openly scorn Dawkins for actually having achieved things in his life. Trig Discipline posted:about one in four brilliant academic biologists turn into absolute loving nutbars at around sixty, and will, if not physically restrained, hunker down and take repeated runny shits all over whatever legacy they may have had. see also margulles, watson, and to a lesser extent e.o. wilson Coyne has so far managed to keep quiet his uh odder opinions. Or nobody cares, which is about the same. Coyne and Dawkins are still largely correct on biology, at least. Myers has decided most of his fellow skeptical atheists are assholes, which is pretty much on the ball. But, he considers himself pretty average as developmental biologists go. divabot has a new favorite as of 01:49 on Oct 7, 2015 |
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Oct 7, 2015 01:46
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divabot posted:Uh, you're going to have to join the dots on that one, and specifically the dots to make up for where LW and NRx openly scorn Dawkins for actually having achieved things in his life. I think Vosgian is referring to meme theory.
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Oct 7, 2015 02:28
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And the thing of it is, Dawkins' evolutionary theory never really panned out either because he used a provisional definition of the gene which turned out to be completely wrong.
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Oct 7, 2015 02:33
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Silver2195 posted:I think Vosgian is referring to meme theory. Yeah. It's a big fat nothing as far as ideas that are supposed to bear scientific fruit though, but LW and NRx still like it because it gives them a way to pretend ideas they don't like are sicknesses and people they don't like are mindless zombies.
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Oct 7, 2015 03:09
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The Vosgian Beast posted:Yeah.
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Oct 7, 2015 04:09
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The Vosgian Beast posted:Yeah. It's still a running joke among cultural anthropologists, those who actually study culture. The idea that some evolutionary biologist, who's a popularizer of science rather than a researcher to boot, trying to revolutionize anthropology by introducing the revolutionary idea of "memes". "What if there are things like genes that make up culture and mediate cultural change!" It's pretty obvious that people like LWers would lap that poo poo up and coin new neologisms like 'memeplex' rather than 'ethos.'
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Oct 7, 2015 10:53
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Did he try to do more with the idea than just suggesting it as a notion in one of his books? That's all I remember but I haven't read all of his work.
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Oct 7, 2015 12:02
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Peel posted:Did he try to do more with the idea than just suggesting it as a notion in one of his books? That's all I remember but I haven't read all of his work. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2tIwYNioDL8
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Oct 7, 2015 12:15
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Nessus posted:I wonder how many of them first encountered the concept in a Metal Gear game. certainly not me 
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Oct 7, 2015 12:55
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The Vosgian Beast posted:Yeah. This is weird since, going by meme theory, wouldn't the fact the "ideas they don't like" are so mainstream and successful make those ideas superior to the idiocy they believe?
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Oct 7, 2015 12:56
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GoneWithTheTornado posted:This is weird since, going by meme theory, wouldn't the fact the "ideas they don't like" are so mainstream and successful make those ideas superior to the idiocy they believe? But you see, the cathedral is cheating. They memetically inoculate your minds to make you resistant to actually good ideas about reality. The only solution is to take the red pill.
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Oct 7, 2015 13:23
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GoneWithTheTornado posted:This is weird since, going by meme theory, wouldn't the fact the "ideas they don't like" are so mainstream and successful make those ideas superior to the idiocy they believe? You are applying waaaaayyy more consistency to meme theory than people like to. Just assume everything you believe is the result of pure reason and evidence, and just assume everything people you don't like believe are the result of being infected by evil Cthulhu mind viruses.
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Oct 7, 2015 14:23
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Fundamental attribution error: the complete ideology
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Oct 7, 2015 14:45
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The Vosgian Beast posted:You are applying waaaaayyy more consistency to meme theory than people like to. Just assume everything you believe is the result of pure reason and evidence, and just assume everything people you don't like believe are the result of being infected by evil Cthulhu mind viruses. Something Awful > Post Your Favorite (or Request) > Dark Enlightenment: People they don't like are infected by evil Cthulhu mind viruses
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Oct 7, 2015 14:54
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For a movement founded by atheists, they keep loving adding stupid new memeplex and general tendencies based Gods, because meta-level politics are where STEM hubris and Mrs Henderson's 5th Grade Social Studies Class meet.
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Oct 7, 2015 16:22
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"BEEF Tensors!" made me giggle 
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Oct 7, 2015 17:19
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The Vosgian Beast posted:For a movement founded by atheists, they keep loving adding stupid new memeplex and general tendencies based Gods, because meta-level politics are where STEM hubris and Mrs Henderson's 5th Grade Social Studies Class meet. I assume a lot of this is just a holdover from people who grew up in Fundamentalist culture, which is SUUUUUPER big on Rationalism and the idea that you can figure the world out by making assumptions and backing them up with smart-sounding words. I see a lot of atheists from these backgrounds who've rejected the assumption of God but haven't made it out of the cultural underpinnings that came with it, so they just end up blundering into the same religion but with a different deity.
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Oct 7, 2015 18:16
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Puppy Time posted:I assume a lot of this is just a holdover from people who grew up in Fundamentalist culture, which is SUUUUUPER big on Rationalism and the idea that you can figure the world out by making assumptions and backing them up with smart-sounding words. I see a lot of atheists from these backgrounds who've rejected the assumption of God but haven't made it out of the cultural underpinnings that came with it, so they just end up blundering into the same religion but with a different deity.
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Oct 8, 2015 00:56
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Intellectual pareidolia, possibly. Humans really, really like finding order and meaning in things and we'll often find it even if it isn't actually there. I don't think you have to be raised religiously to do this.
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Oct 8, 2015 02:01
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Heresiarch posted:Intellectual pareidolia, possibly. The worst thing about these guys is that they make me doubt myself in some of my more carefully observed and constructed conclusions about the world, and not on any sound basis, just "these guys think they're rational and they're crazy"
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Oct 8, 2015 02:58
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ikanreed posted:The worst thing about these guys is that they make me doubt myself in some of my more carefully observed and constructed conclusions about the world, and not on any sound basis, just "these guys think they're rational and they're crazy" I mean it's good that you can doubt some of your conclusions about the world because these idiots obviously cannot.
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Oct 8, 2015 03:00
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Jack Gladney posted:Somewhat related: Linus Pauling and Henry Heimlich, who believes that AIDS can be cured with malaria. That's a tiny bit less crazy than it sounds, since syphilis was cured with malaria before antibiotics were invented.
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Oct 8, 2015 03:14
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ikanreed posted:The worst thing about these guys is that they make me doubt myself in some of my more carefully observed and constructed conclusions about the world, and not on any sound basis, just "these guys think they're rational and they're crazy" Is that a bad thing? I assume I'm probably wrong about a lot of stuff that seems self-evident and straight-forward to me, because it seems like everyone is.
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Oct 8, 2015 06:36
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Yeah there's probably a bunch of poo poo we're completely wrong about, although it would probably be silly to assume that would necessarily mean magic will become real and the AI God will emerge to take us warmly in hand. Still, you do the best you can with what you have. What I imagine a lot of these pricks want to do is to make disproven or meaningless ideas, which support their personal hobby horses, become accepted as self-evident truths again.
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Oct 8, 2015 07:47
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Parallel Paraplegic posted:I mean it's good that you can doubt some of your conclusions about the world because these idiots obviously cannot. Pretty much this. The complete lack of doubt on the side of these people is what makes them so infuriating. There can be no rationality without being able to doubt oneself and be willing to go back on one's own convictions (which is why I always feel a little uneasy when politicians are accused of flip-flopping on an issue), and here we have people who claim the term of rationality while spouting outlandish ideas as self-evident truths.
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Oct 8, 2015 07:53
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Zemyla posted:That's a tiny bit less crazy than it sounds, since syphilis was cured with malaria before antibiotics were invented. quote:Treatment with malaria was cheap, fast-acting and relatively non-toxic compared to the mercury therapeutics that had been the most viable extant option, and Wagner-Jauregg’s treatment became the go-to therapy for syphilis. As if the history of syphilis wasnt nightmarish enough.
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Oct 8, 2015 08:15
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Parallel Paraplegic posted:I mean it's good that you can doubt some of your conclusions about the world because these idiots obviously cannot. "The true sage lights his way with the torch of confusion and doubt." - Zhuangzi (IIRC)
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Oct 8, 2015 08:20
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ArchangeI posted:Pretty much this. The complete lack of doubt on the side of these people is what makes them so infuriating. There can be no rationality without being able to doubt oneself and be willing to go back on one's own convictions (which is why I always feel a little uneasy when politicians are accused of flip-flopping on an issue), and here we have people who claim the term of rationality while spouting outlandish ideas as self-evident truths.
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Oct 8, 2015 08:27
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Nessus posted:It's a little surprising that Elizeier Yudkowsky has seemed to be on that train too, of course, but there's no guarantee he got educated rigorously in Judaism. He was.
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Oct 8, 2015 08:35
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Heresiarch posted:"The true sage lights his way with the torch of confusion and doubt." Now I'm just remembering the guy with the Zhuangzhi avatar who will not shut up about how unfairly persecuted gamergate and the puppies are.
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Oct 8, 2015 14:02
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Found it https://twitter.com/st_rev/status/570293549960458240 I'm a modern day descendant of great skeptics like Hume and Zhuangzi. They taught me to never question the narrative my friends are buying into!
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Oct 8, 2015 14:41
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Tiggum posted:Is that a bad thing? I assume I'm probably wrong about a lot of stuff that seems self-evident and straight-forward to me, because it seems like everyone is. I know what you mean, but the lack of a sound basis is a bad thing. "I could just be an idiot who thinks he's smarter than he is" isn't that.
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Oct 8, 2015 15:22
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Most of the lost works of the Ancient Chinese Taoist philosophers are complaining about how unfairly persecuted gamers are, and how evil and abusive SJWs are. While this might lead us to judge them harshly, we must remember that neither videogames, nor ethics in video games had been invented yet, so this really just shows how forward thinking they were.
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Oct 8, 2015 20:19
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Now that I think of it, it is solely due to hardcore white supremacy that all these assholes don't just embrace Confucianism.
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Oct 9, 2015 03:03
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