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James Garfield posted:Does the strict letter of the law prevent them from electing Reagan speaker? I know they can elect someone not in the House but I'm not sure they can elect someone who is dead. I suspect there are laws about what happens when the speaker is dead so even if they can elect him I expect he immediately automatically vacates the office.
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Oct 8, 2015 17:58
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evilweasel posted:Boehner is still speaker and intends to be until the 30th. He could just jam through bills to fix the debt limit if he felt like it before then. Doubt he will, but he could. "On October 31st, and every day thereafter that I am speaker, I will allow Nancy Pelosi to choose one bill that will immediately be put forward for a vote in the House. Pick a new god damned speaker."
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Oct 8, 2015 17:58
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evilweasel posted:The freedom caucus just toppled McCarthy's bid and they weren't sane about the limits of their power before getting two scalps in a week. There's no path forward for the rest of the Republican I can see short of conceding to the freedom caucus or begging the Democrats to get their speaker nominee over 218. And both of those are devastating to the party. Gerrymandering has effectively destroyed the House as a functioning body and looks like it might backfire spectacularly on the Republicans as well. It would be hilarious if it weren't for the fact that there is a country that needs governing and Democrats are locked out of retaking the House for another 5 years at bare minimum.
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Oct 8, 2015 17:59
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James Garfield posted:Does the strict letter of the law prevent them from electing Reagan speaker? Or Ted Cruz.
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Oct 8, 2015 17:59
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They should probably just elect Trump to be speaker. Then when he refuses use it as advertising fodder to claim he doesn't really want to fix the government.
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Oct 8, 2015 17:59
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Serious question, with disaster looming is there anyone center right enough that they could be elected with a majority of democratic votes and peeling off a few dozen center right Republicans?
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Oct 8, 2015 18:00
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mcmagic posted:Or Ted Cruz. They can elect Ted.
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Oct 8, 2015 18:00
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Three Olives posted:Serious question, with disaster looming is there anyone center right enough that they could be elected with a majority of democratic votes and peeling off a few dozen center right Republicans? I don't think Nancy Pelosi would be willing to do that. It is, afterall, their mess.
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Oct 8, 2015 18:01
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Three Olives posted:center right Republicans lol
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Oct 8, 2015 18:02
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Three Olives posted:Serious question, with disaster looming is there anyone center right enough that they could be elected with a majority of democratic votes and peeling off a few dozen center right Republicans? The gap between the leftmost Republican and the rightmost Democrat is probably greater than the gap between the leftmost Republican and the Freedom Caucus. They don't disagree on ideology or goals, just on if they choose to recognize reality or not.
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Oct 8, 2015 18:02
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The Republican Party just had their secret preliminary vote for the Speakership, so I can think of three reasons why McCarthy might have dropped out. Scenario one is that the Freedom Caucus made a deal that entailed McCarthy dropping out and a few legislative appointments in return for not embarrassing the party on the national stage. Scenario two is that Chaffetz actually somehow mustered 50 people, as he claimed he had, and denied McCarthy of even attaining a majority. Scenario three is that McCarthy realized that he really really didn't want to govern the GOP in its current state and that any attempt at leadership was a lost cause. So, uh huh, congrats to Speaker Webster?
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Oct 8, 2015 18:02
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BI NOW GAY LATER posted:I don't think Nancy Pelosi would be willing to do that. It is, afterall, their mess. Not for free, no, but with some sweeteners like granting powers to the minority to force a bill to the floor, it's possible.
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Oct 8, 2015 18:03
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Three Olives posted:Serious question, with disaster looming is there anyone center right enough that they could be elected with a majority of democratic votes and peeling off a few dozen center right Republicans? If it's cooperate or disaster, I imagine that a group of moderate Republicans could get Pelosi to go along with electing one of their number Speaker. But whoever did that would have basically no real authority or ability to control his caucus and it would shred the Republican party, so it's not happening.
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Oct 8, 2015 18:03
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Yeah this could be a huge opportunity for House Democrats, let's see how they're gonna gently caress this up.
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Oct 8, 2015 18:03
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QuoProQuid posted:Scenario three is that McCarthy realized that he really really didn't want to govern the GOP in its current state and that any attempt at leadership was a lost cause. lol.
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Oct 8, 2015 18:03
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QuoProQuid posted:The Republican Party just had their secret preliminary vote for the Speakership, so I can think of three reasons why McCarthy might have dropped out. He dropped out because the Freedom Caucus (or another sizable enough group) made clear they wouldn't support him even if he got a plurality, denying him 218 votes and setting him up for an embarrassing failure.
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Oct 8, 2015 18:04
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evilweasel posted:Not for free, no, but with some sweeteners like granting powers to the minority to force a bill to the floor, it's possible. They would have to make too many concessions, I think. zoux posted:Yeah this could be a huge opportunity for House Democrats, let's see how they're gonna gently caress this up. If this is Nancy's call, they won't.
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Oct 8, 2015 18:04
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I just hope we don't get Chaffetz, he's almost as arrogant, smarmy, and face-punchable as Ted Cruz.
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Oct 8, 2015 18:04
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evilweasel posted:The freedom caucus just toppled McCarthy's bid and they weren't sane about the limits of their power before getting two scalps in a week. There's no path forward for the rest of the Republican I can see short of conceding to the freedom caucus or begging the Democrats to get their speaker nominee over 218. And both of those are devastating to the party. And this is the next iteration of freedom caucus hopefuls: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P-Br1GxdGJo
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Oct 8, 2015 18:06
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Sounds like the House needs a leader. A Leader (possibly) of the Civilizing Forces.
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Oct 8, 2015 18:06
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BI NOW GAY LATER posted:They would have to make too many concessions, I think. Oh it's never going to happen, I agree. But it's because no Republican speaker can owe his position to Pelosi, not that there's no agreement that could be made to get the Democrats on board. I don't think that a Republican speaker could survive even with only token concessions. Hell, I'm not sure he could survive even without any concessions if he needed Democratic support to get over 218. edit: and yeah, no Democrats are going to break ranks on this without approval from Pelosi.
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Oct 8, 2015 18:07
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Oh good, Ben Carson is reacting to this!
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Oct 8, 2015 18:07
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Maybe this is just a long con by John Boehner to teach House Republicans a lesson and he plans on coming back to save them????
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Oct 8, 2015 18:09
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BI NOW GAY LATER posted:Maybe this is just a long con by John Boehner to teach House Republicans a lesson and he plans on coming back to save them???? And he'll look down and whisper, "No."
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Oct 8, 2015 18:10
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evilweasel posted:He dropped out because the Freedom Caucus (or another sizable enough group) made clear they wouldn't support him even if he got a plurality, denying him 218 votes and setting him up for an embarrassing failure. Probably more than just the Tortilla Coast Gang. Establishment was pissed at him too for blowing the mainstream cred of the Benghazi Committee just before Gowdy gets his bite at Hillary.
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Oct 8, 2015 18:10
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It's hard to imagine either side being willing to get to the point of making a cross party deal on the Speakership. Frankly I would think Pelosi would be more likely to make a move than anyone on the Republican side simply as a way of averting a default. But ultimately the sides are too far apart and too loathe to give the other a victory for it to be possible.
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Oct 8, 2015 18:14
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Zeroisanumber posted:If it's cooperate or disaster, I imagine that a group of moderate Republicans could get Pelosi to go along with electing one of their number Speaker. But whoever did that would have basically no real authority or ability to control his caucus and it would shred the Republican party, so it's not happening. Seems to me like the Republican Party is already shredded. Once part of your caucus refuses to support the majority choice of the party as Speaker, they've left the party. The institutional GOP now has to choose if they want to govern in coalition with the right-wing death cult or the Dems, and I imagine Pelosi is easier to negotiate with.
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Oct 8, 2015 18:15
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Zeroisanumber posted:Probably more than just the Tortilla Coast Gang. Establishment was pissed at him too for blowing the mainstream cred of the Benghazi Committee just before Gowdy gets his bite at Hillary. I'm sure that didn't help, yeah, but he was still going to get a plurality and the Establishment knows him dropping out of the race doesn't help with the blown cover on Benghazi.
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Oct 8, 2015 18:16
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zoux posted:Yeah this could be a huge opportunity for House Democrats, let's see how they're gonna gently caress this up. God Emperor Pelosi runs a tight ship since the Yellow Dogs left
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Oct 8, 2015 18:16
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Boehner is trapped in hell. He is never going to be able to resign.
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Oct 8, 2015 18:17
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Pinterest Mom posted:Seems to me like the Republican Party is already shredded. Once part of your caucus refuses to support the majority choice of the party as Speaker, they've left the party. The institutional GOP now has to choose if they want to govern in coalition with the right-wing death cult or the Dems, and I imagine Pelosi is easier to negotiate with. The issue is that there is not an ideological divide between these two groups. They both want very similar things and the country would look pretty similar if either group got absolute power. This is a dispute over tactics.
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Oct 8, 2015 18:17
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Pinterest Mom posted:Seems to me like the Republican Party is already shredded. Once part of your caucus refuses to support the majority choice of the party as Speaker, they've left the party. The institutional GOP now has to choose if they want to govern in coalition with the right-wing death cult or the Dems, and I imagine Pelosi is easier to negotiate with. The more likely scenario is a bunch of retirements.
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Oct 8, 2015 18:17
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evilweasel posted:The issue is that there is not an ideological divide between these two groups. They both want very similar things and the country would look pretty similar if either group got absolute power. This is a dispute over tactics. I'd say "should the country have a government" is a fairly large ideological cleavage, with the mainstream GOP and the Dems on the same side.
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Oct 8, 2015 18:18
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Pinterest Mom posted:Seems to me like the Republican Party is already shredded. Once part of your caucus refuses to support the majority choice of the party as Speaker, they've left the party. The institutional GOP now has to choose if they want to govern in coalition with the right-wing death cult or the Dems, and I imagine Pelosi is easier to negotiate with. Pelosi is easier to negotiate with for two years and then you lose the election.
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Oct 8, 2015 18:19
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James Garfield posted:Does the strict letter of the law prevent them from electing Reagan speaker? Ain't no rule says a dog can't be Speaker.
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Oct 8, 2015 18:19
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Pinterest Mom posted:Seems to me like the Republican Party is already shredded. Once part of your caucus refuses to support the majority choice of the party as Speaker, they've left the party. The institutional GOP now has to choose if they want to govern in coalition with the right-wing death cult or the Dems, and I imagine Pelosi is easier to negotiate with. I agree that the party is already shredded. But the problem with the idea of negotiating with Pelosi is that these guys are all still formally within the Republican Party, and they need to live within it, and anyone who breaks for Pelosi without an insane package of concessions would get primaried so fast their heads would spin. Going to Pelosi would mean formally and completely breaking the Republican Party. It's already disintegrating but that's still a big step.
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Oct 8, 2015 18:19
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Bob Ojeda posted:I agree that the party is already shredded. But the problem with the idea of negotiating with Pelosi is that these guys are all still formally within the Republican Party, and they need to love within it, and anyone who breaks for Pelosi without an insane package of concessions would get primaried so fast their heads would spin. Also negotiating with Pelosi and being elected with her voted all but assures you will be primaried.
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Oct 8, 2015 18:20
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Wax Dynasty posted:Ain't no rule says a dog can't be Speaker. They are still making those Air Bud movies (about his puppies now). Need to think of a political name with bud in it... Legalize Bud? Budget?
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Oct 8, 2015 18:20
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QuoProQuid posted:Boehner is trapped in hell. John Boehner posted:I had this terrible nightmare last night that I was trying to get out and I couldn’t get out. And a hand came reaching, pulling me. (link)
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Oct 8, 2015 18:20
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Pinterest Mom posted:I'd say "should the country have a government" is a fairly large ideological cleavage, with the mainstream GOP and the Dems on the same side. No, the mainstream GOP is pretty into the idea of shredding the Federal Government and they're much more in line with the Tea Party than the Democrats. They're just aware shutdowns don't get them where they want to be, and that default is a problem even for them. If they thought shutdowns would work, they'd be all for them. It's just they recognize they don't, not a moral aversion to shutdowns.
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Oct 8, 2015 18:24
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