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Koramei posted:Desert and ice doesn't work just fine, the AI has no problem at all running right over attrition hell 'cause it can still raid you just fine even if it only has 5 men left in its army. Shogun 2's map was a whole lot more constrictive (for the better). So that's an example of the AI doing something for the sole purpose of annoying the player, which is an ongoing feature of the AI programming. I don't really remember that particular manifestation, but I do remember seeing my farms and mines get torched by single-unit armies in Shogun 2 and earlier. Anyways, reverting to the boardgame map because minor annoyances is like treating a paper cut with amputation. Tomn posted:I didn't mind force march for armies quite so much, but double-time for navies is the stupidest loving thing. Navies were annoying from their Empire inception. Yes France, please retreat your sloop from the North Sea into the Thames so that next turn you can burn my trading port thanks. Yes pirates, please run amok with fluyts and galleons for the first 50 turns of the game. Please attack my transport fleets so that they will retreat into the edge of the map and instantly come to a dead halt. Slim Jim Pickens fucked around with this message at 19:49 on Sep 29, 2015 |
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Sep 29, 2015 19:47
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In Empire 2, I hope they make it so you need a proper fleet to blockade/attack ports because that was loving annoying as hell.
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Sep 29, 2015 20:04
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SeanBeansShako posted:In Empire 2, I hope they make it so you need a proper fleet to blockade/attack ports because that was loving annoying as hell. Wasn't that an FotS feature? The high level ports will block movement unless you attack them directly, although I never tried doing with just a gunboat.
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Sep 29, 2015 20:36
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Slim Jim Pickens posted:Wasn't that an FotS feature? The high level ports will block movement unless you attack them directly, although I never tried doing with just a gunboat. I think it was yeah. A single friggling sloop though. Unless it was on fire, It really shouldn't shut down my spice trade.
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Sep 29, 2015 20:43
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If nothing was in the port, I believe even just a gunboat could attack it and auto-win though. edit: I think if I wanted them to revert back to tiled movement anywhere, it'd be for the sea. On land you can get some interesting play out of non-tiled, but as they have the sea now it's just, well, sea. Nothing interesting. Decus fucked around with this message at 20:53 on Sep 29, 2015 |
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Sep 29, 2015 20:51
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remember medieval 2 and how decades long alliances would end with naval blocades? 
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Sep 29, 2015 21:10
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By one galley in some godforsaken port that you had completely forgotten about. That's when I realized that the AI in a total war game hates you personally and will do everything in it's power to try and be an rear end in a top hat.
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Sep 30, 2015 03:04
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Not really sure how Arena is still a closed Beta but here's warrior of sparta with a video of the most recent patch of Arena, including the new map, new mechanics and new army. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b955_cjr3Z4 The game is shaping up to be pretty good, i'm still holding on to see what else they'll add. I sure hope they'll add more graphics that aren't basically outsourced from Rome 2. Give me them Aztecs.
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Sep 30, 2015 21:12
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Would the Sengoku Jidai pack be worth picking up for Shogun 2? I've been playing Oda to work on my Ashigaru heavy army builds, and I was wondering if the Long Yari troops would be worth it. Or would I be better off grabbing one of the faction packs like the Otomo or Ikko Ikki?
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Oct 2, 2015 16:32
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Long yari ashigaru are crazy good. Actually most of the unique units in that pack are good and worthwhile (look up videos of the Shimazu gunners).
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Oct 2, 2015 16:35
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The faction packs are good for having pretty radically different playstyles but if you're not sick of the base factions then the Sengoku Jidai pack is way better yeah. It adds some genuine variety to the factions you fight too, since the AI likes making use of (some of) the unique units. There's a mod that lets every faction recruit all of them too if you just wanna be able to try them all out. Mans posted:I sure hope they'll add more graphics that aren't basically outsourced from Rome 2. Give me them Aztecs. This is my big problem with it right now. The game has so much potential for mixing all sorts of time periods, but right now it's basically just Rome 2 but worse. I really hope they add something totally different before they actually release it properly.
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Oct 2, 2015 17:10
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It would be great if Arena introduced some gunpowder nations and balanced it by giving them smaller unit sizes or lowered melee stats.
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Oct 2, 2015 19:17
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Yeah, some of the most fun battles I had in Shogun 2 mp were using a Sengoku army to fight a Fall army. Makes using the terrain much more important. I think arena could be a fun format but stopped playing because right now it is just a watered down version of Rome. Hoping they add armies like the Iroquois and the Redcoats.
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Oct 2, 2015 19:27
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Koramei posted:This is my big problem with it right now. The game has so much potential for mixing all sorts of time periods, but right now it's basically just Rome 2 but worse. I really hope they add something totally different before they actually release it properly. I reckon they're trying to keep costs down during the beta as much as possible, so we'll probably see some actually original content if Arena does well on release. Still hoping for Napoleon vs. Genghis Khan in that game.
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Oct 2, 2015 21:06
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Give me ancient/medieval china units so I can at least pretend to play the Three Kingdoms: Total War that I will never have. 
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Oct 2, 2015 21:26
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Galaga Galaxian posted:Three Kingdoms: Total War This is a thing that needs to happen.
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Oct 3, 2015 04:52
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"For Total War: Three Kingdoms, we have an entire team dedicated just to programming fire." I'm not sure how well the Three Kingdoms era would work for TW since much of the mythos relies on larger-than-life individuals and underhanded trickery rather than famous battles, Red Cliffs notwithstanding.It seems more like a Crusader Kings-type setting than a Total War one.
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Oct 3, 2015 06:47
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So I know that Medieval II is the last particularly moddable game, but are things like the reinforcement mechanic inalterable? That and better ranged control are what I miss most whenever I'm playing the Warhammer or Hyrule mod.
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Oct 3, 2015 06:57
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So I just lost a game due to a misunderstanding about the way retreats/surrender works. I ran into enemy territory and picked off an unguarded city, looting it. Then moved my army just outside the city, planning to retreat when attacked. Only I didn't have the option to do that, and during the battle, I couldn't run off the edge of the battlefield afterwards. As a result I lost the vast majority of my army and in turn, my core provinces. Fair enough, but what are the rules regarding this? Do you need to have movement points left over to withdraw?
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Oct 3, 2015 07:43
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Gimnbo posted:"For Total War: Three Kingdoms, we have an entire team dedicated just to programming fire." It's not like the focus on larger-than-life individuals is particularly different from the Sengoku Jidai, Napoleonic Europe, or Imperial Rome, and there's not actually a shortage of major battles during the Three Kingdom period anyway. Even if there were, I'm not sure it'd be a point against the setting -- Fall of the Samurai is one of the best Total War campaigns even though the war it's based on was a three-month long curbstomp.
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Oct 3, 2015 08:41
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I'm hoping Total Warhammer let's them really get into characters and making characters cool and fun again.
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Oct 3, 2015 08:50
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Gimnbo posted:"For Total War: Three Kingdoms, we have an entire team dedicated just to programming fire." Even so, I'm down for it or a Total War in Asia not focused entirely on Japan.
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Oct 3, 2015 15:26
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Three Kingdoms would work a lot like Rise of the Samurai: several dozen families gathered into a handful of coalitions. The early parts of the period had more than three factions and the latter parts were often characterised by the self-interest of key officers. Maybe generals would have the crazy (Shogun 2 multiplayer-esque) stats/perks that let them solo three or four units of spears and flee or be 'injured' after being defeated on the field rather than killed as default. This would be a concession to the novels / Koei games that have set the popular mentality. And maybe a couple of "strategist" special abilities that cause floods / fires. Possibly part of the reason we haven't seen it is that there are several other famous warring states periods in Chinese history - the Qin unification being pretty much the prime example. Koei have been pumping RoTK and Dynsaty Warriors titles out for decades at this point which would make these other periods more of a gamble even if they'd fit better. (The real reason is that the original CA staff had a huge boner for the Sengoku Jidai / Japan. Rome / Medieval / Empire were comparatively safe bets for them.) I really want to see a game with more emphasis on set-piece battles, simply because they tend to have more unpredictable and fun stuff going down. Basically anything that breaks up the monotony of stack-vs-stack stuff; battle goals other than straight slaughter, several engagements to a stack-vs-stack fight, genuinely underestimating the enemy numbers, etc. It sounds like Warhammer is going to do this a bit with story encounters.
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Oct 3, 2015 19:20
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Amethyst posted:So I just lost a game due to a misunderstanding about the way retreats/surrender works. Basically, yeah. Retreat uses up whatever movement points you had left, which is why sometimes you see an army run a lot farther than another one, and why if you chase down an army after it retreats once, it can't run away again.
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Oct 3, 2015 19:22
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Amethyst posted:So I just lost a game due to a misunderstanding about the way retreats/surrender works. What game is this? If the enemy army reoccupied the city, you might have been stuck in their ZOC and unable to move. You don't need movement points to withdraw in TW games before Rome 2. I'm not sure if it changed after.
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Oct 3, 2015 20:33
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Amethyst posted:So I just lost a game due to a misunderstanding about the way retreats/surrender works. Because they attacked the city and not your army you don't have a choice on whether to retreat. If they attacked your army you could've. It doesn't really make sense that you can't retreat your army away from a doomed city, especially when it's a fleet in port and there's only an enemy army attacking.
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Oct 3, 2015 21:06
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Nullkigan posted:(The real reason is that the original CA staff had a huge boner for the Sengoku Jidai / Japan. Rome / Medieval / Empire were comparatively safe bets for them.) I remember how the Shogun 1 manual made an enormous fuss about how awesome The Art of War was, how heavily it influenced Japanese thinking, and how the whole game was designed to emulate the principles laid out in the Art of War. I wonder how many of those principles are still remembered by anyone in CA today?
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Oct 3, 2015 21:28
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Trujillo posted:Because they attacked the city and not your army you don't have a choice on whether to retreat. If they attacked your army you could've. It doesn't really make sense that you can't retreat your army away from a doomed city, especially when it's a fleet in port and there's only an enemy army attacking. Ah, here's what got me, thanks. It was Shogun 2.
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Oct 4, 2015 02:54
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Tomn posted:I remember how the Shogun 1 manual made an enormous fuss about how awesome The Art of War was, how heavily it influenced Japanese thinking, and how the whole game was designed to emulate the principles laid out in the Art of War. I wonder how many of those principles are still remembered by anyone in CA today? Dunno, but I don't think the games have gotten any further away from Sun Tzu's principles, though they probably could have gotten closer given improvements in technology and game design. A massive part of the game is manipulating events on and off the battlefield to emphasize your strengths while minimising your opponents'. Given the right circumstances, pretty much any unit can beat any other* - sure, crack sword infantry can murder spearmen until their arms get tired, but that doesn't mean you should charge them into a spear wall or send them in outnumbered 3-1. You can get by without knowing The Art of War fine, but understanding Cheng and Ch'i is massively useful on the battlemap. I'd like future games to have more of a basis on deception, and be better at limiting information available to the player - not showing what kind or even how many troops you're up against prior to hitting the battlemap if your intel is poor, for instance. *Apart from Empire/Napoleon's citizenry garrisons, who couldn't beat the common cold on a good day.
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Oct 5, 2015 12:52
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Murderion posted:*Apart from Empire/Napoleon's citizenry garrisons, who couldn't beat the common cold on a good day. To be fair, the common cold is alive and kicking to this day.
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Oct 5, 2015 12:57
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It was more exposure/malnutrition and just general starvation or wounds/physical ailments that killed those dudes off in campaign.
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Oct 5, 2015 15:02
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Wafflecopper posted:To be fair, the common cold is alive and kicking to this day. And those garrisons did look like they were wearing pajamas. I always just shoved them in a house and set my real troops around it.
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Oct 5, 2015 19:10
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Koramei posted:This is my big problem with it right now. The game has so much potential for mixing all sorts of time periods, but right now it's basically just Rome 2 but worse. I really hope they add something totally different before they actually release it properly. Yeah, here's hoping that you can have Napoleon, Caesar, and Wallenstein trying to hold Thermopylae against Teutonic Knights, Seljuk, and Genghis while off the coast the Viking longboats are running down a Venetian galleass in the midst of a sea battle.
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Oct 5, 2015 19:33
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dogstile posted:And those garrisons did look like they were wearing pajamas. I honestly feel like the Firelock Militia/whatever units were pretty goddamn good representations of what you would get if you scraped up every dude wealthy/old enough to own their own firearm and threw them into open-field engagements against professional soldiers, or even militia-'trained' units. You can count on almost everyone in the unit to get off at least one shot...and that's it. Can't count on the shots to hit, can't count on the unit to put out even the most generously-termed volley, and if a dozen guys manage to get off a second shot before being killed or routing you've just observed a loving miracle. Kind of like what you could expect if you put modern american militia weirdos into an actual military engagement; chaos, random firing, and pants-making GBS threads (maaaaaybe in that order).
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Oct 6, 2015 04:02
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Any good suggestions for countering late game naval invasions in Shogun 2, or managing my economy in general? The Ito have started attacking my rear provinces and my current strategy is withering them down in unwinnable siege defenses while my reserve army sweeps through reconquering the land behind them until I can meet them and rout them in a major battle.
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Oct 9, 2015 03:42
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Arcsquad12 posted:Any good suggestions for countering late game naval invasions in Shogun 2, or managing my economy in general? The Ito have started attacking my rear provinces and my current strategy is withering them down in unwinnable siege defenses while my reserve army sweeps through reconquering the land behind them until I can meet them and rout them in a major battle. Having a big gently caress-off navy basically pays for itself, so I'd suggest starting there. It's difficult because that's expensive, I know, but once you get it going you can also support lots of trade ships and they basically can support your entire economy until the Realm Divide. And preventing naval raids is great because it really lets your home-front economy grow and saves you lots of money on rearguards and repair bills. I typically build two fleets and post them at either end of my coastline, and then perhaps some pickets within reinforcement distance to expand their reach. Any enemy ships trying to get by have to run that blockade.
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Oct 9, 2015 04:54
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Kaal posted:Having a big gently caress-off navy basically pays for itself, so I'd suggest starting there. It's difficult because that's expensive, I know, but once you get it going you can also support lots of trade ships and they basically can support your entire economy until the Realm Divide. And preventing naval raids is great because it really lets your home-front economy grow and saves you lots of money on rearguards and repair bills. I typically build two fleets and post them at either end of my coastline, and then perhaps some pickets within reinforcement distance to expand their reach. Any enemy ships trying to get by have to run that blockade. I do have a nasty fleet with the Nihon Maru guarding the straits between Shikoku and Honshu but it's currently busy loving over the Hattori while I steamroll them into bankruptcy. Currently it's the Nihon Maru, three medium bunes, one heavy bune and five bow kobayas. I haven't pursued matchlocks very much though I hear they can be game breakers in naval battles used right.
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Oct 9, 2015 05:03
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Arcsquad12 posted:I do have a nasty fleet with the Nihon Maru guarding the straits between Shikoku and Honshu but it's currently busy loving over the Hattori while I steamroll them into bankruptcy. Currently it's the Nihon Maru, three medium bunes, one heavy bune and five bow kobayas. I haven't pursued matchlocks very much though I hear they can be game breakers in naval battles used right. A single fleet come Realm Divide isn't nearly enough. You are seriously below par if that constitutes your entire naval force post-Realm Divide. Depending on where you start you'd want at minimum two fleets approaching that size, probably more if you start around the Kyushu/Shikoku area. The goal is to totally seal off your shores from any potential invasion angles with powerful battlefleets. Tactically you seem to be fine, the problem is that you just don't have enough fleets guarding potential approaches. If you have trouble paying for that fleet, your economy probably needs a tune-up, but without knowing more about what it's like at the moment it's hard to say what to do.
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Oct 9, 2015 07:20
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Tomn posted:A single fleet come Realm Divide isn't nearly enough. You are seriously below par if that constitutes your entire naval force post-Realm Divide. Depending on where you start you'd want at minimum two fleets approaching that size, probably more if you start around the Kyushu/Shikoku area. The goal is to totally seal off your shores from any potential invasion angles with powerful battlefleets. Tactically you seem to be fine, the problem is that you just don't have enough fleets guarding potential approaches. I'm on an Oda campaign at the moment. Nobunaga is cutting through the Hattori with a reserve army in tow, while two other armies are pursuing the Uesugi to the northeast. I'm pulling my reserve army from the Uesugi front to take back the territory lost to the Ito around Suruga. I'm using a minimum amount of samurai (maybe three samurai units per army tops) and using large ashigaru armies. Current income is fluctuating between 1400 and 2400 per turn depending on which provinces the Ito and I are trading in combat. Hattori Ninjas are becoming a pain in the rear end, so my goal is to flatten them in combat because there is no way I will be able to recruit a comparable ninja or metsuke to deal with them before they get assassinated. The Nihon Maru fleet is like I said patrolling the straits hitting any other Ito fleet passing through, but two fleets slipped by around the southern coast which is where the landing forces came from. Perhaps once the Uesugi are pacified turn those provinces into money makers while I focus my frontline on the west?
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Oct 9, 2015 13:46
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Arcsquad12 posted:I'm on an Oda campaign at the moment. Nobunaga is cutting through the Hattori with a reserve army in tow, while two other armies are pursuing the Uesugi to the northeast. I'm pulling my reserve army from the Uesugi front to take back the territory lost to the Ito around Suruga. I'm using a minimum amount of samurai (maybe three samurai units per army tops) and using large ashigaru armies. Current income is fluctuating between 1400 and 2400 per turn depending on which provinces the Ito and I are trading in combat. OK, the Oda are definitely a tricky start. Unless things go amazingly right, you're probably going to want a minimum of four fleets to guard your borders come realm divide due to having potential enemies in every direction. That being said, though, if your income is between 1400 to 2400 BEFORE you've built up that kind of naval power, I kinda feel like maybe your basic problem is that you pushed for realm divide prematurely. Did you pause your conquests and sue for peace shortly before your fame bar was on the verge of pushing into realm divide in order to focus solely on economic developments? I'm probably pretty conservative in this regard, but I like to make sure that my income is up to at least 10k+ if possible WITH a full defensive fleet and army before kicking off realm divide, with an emphasis on making sure that even without trade income I'd still have a healthy enough surplus to tide me over until I've conquered even more territory to stabilize the economy. Edit: Come to think of it, if you want to save on money and don't mind drawing battles out and micromanagement, due to the way ships work the Nihon Maru can be used fairly effectively to solo enemy fleets. Never board the enemy and just ride around making use of your superior height to rain arrows on the unprotected heads of your enemies while their arrows plunk into the hull of the ship, which acts like a fortress wall. The enemy won't board you because you're gently caress-off huge, but they can't outshoot you. Works well unless they have cannons or bombs, and could help free up an extra fleet at no additional cost. Tomn fucked around with this message at 14:25 on Oct 9, 2015 |
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Oct 9, 2015 14:22
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