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NotQuiteQuentin posted:AND NOW HE'S DEAD. get dave to send this forum a single vote
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Oct 7, 2015 19:49
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NickRoweFillea posted:get dave to send this forum a single vote unless each and everyone of you schmucks agree with me about cima and los misioneros, I ain't sharin'.
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Oct 7, 2015 19:53
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NotQuiteQuentin posted:jimmy hart is exactly where he should be as a non wrestler. Yes, Colon is being dicked over. Someone who was a major draw in one small territory, a bad worker and could never draw elsewhere is clearly a no doubter. Clearly. That's not an arguable guy who is borderline at all.
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Oct 7, 2015 19:56
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MassRafTer posted:Yes, Colon is being dicked over. Someone who was a major draw in one small territory, a bad worker and could never draw elsewhere is clearly a no doubter. Clearly. That's not an arguable guy who is borderline at all. Cool cherry pick and selectively ignoring my point bro.
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Oct 7, 2015 19:59
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Didn't Colon draw all over the Caribbean?
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Oct 7, 2015 20:02
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NotQuiteQuentin posted:Cool cherry pick and selectively ignoring my point bro. Don't worry once he gets in it will become the objectively correct decision. If he doesn't, that will also be correct.
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Oct 7, 2015 20:03
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NotQuiteQuentin posted:Cool cherry pick and selectively ignoring my point bro. How is he being dicked over? He's voted on by his peers and people who followed and reported on his career. He's currently incredibly close to getting in and is an incredibly divisive candidate who is thought poorly of by many of his peers and not thought well of by some historians due to his complete inability to draw outside of Puerto Rico, even in front of ethnic Puerto Rican crowds in New York. If you formed a committee for these candidates how exactly would it be different than just having voters who worked in the area, reported on the area or followed the area vote on him? It's tougher for some Australian candidates but they'll still have their shot in the historical committee. As will Colon if he doesn't squeak in. Colon is exactly where you would expect a candidate like him to be vote wise, he's an example that the system works. Spermgod posted:Don't worry once he gets in it will become the objectively correct decision. If he doesn't, that will also be correct. It's amazing that you think this is some great burn when it's actually just true. He's a borderline candidate and whether he gets in or doesn't there's really no wrong answer. He's not a clear cut candidate. Thus there is no real right or wrong answer which is why he's so close.
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Oct 7, 2015 20:04
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Spermgod posted:Didn't Colon draw all over the Caribbean? yup! and even though he wasn't the Puerto Rican draw WWWF wanted he had successful stents in New York and other territories. If one applies the Gordy List to him, he's in, but the Brody asterisk is always going to haunt him.
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Oct 7, 2015 20:05
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NotQuiteQuentin posted:yup! and even though he wasn't the Puerto Rican draw WWWF wanted he had successful stents in New York and other territories. If one applies the Gordy List to him, he's in, but the Brody asterisk is always going to haunt him. Colon's drawing in other territories is marginal at best and not sustained. The entire Caribbean is not a major territory here, that's why most major stars kept other islands as infrequent stopping off points. PR was definitely a hot bed but even then if you look at major stars they would leave their hot beds and succeed in many more places than Colon. Colon is most comparable to Lawler except Lawler was seen as a great worker by his peers.
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Oct 7, 2015 20:10
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Is Big Daddy finally getting his due this year?
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Oct 7, 2015 20:13
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NienNunb posted:Is Big Daddy finally getting his due this year? I hope his vote share goes up again.
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Oct 7, 2015 20:14
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MassRafTer posted:How is he being dicked over? He's voted on by his peers and people who followed and reported on his career. He's currently incredibly close to getting in and is an incredibly divisive candidate who is thought poorly of by many of his peers and not thought well of by some historians due to his complete inability to draw outside of Puerto Rico, even in front of ethnic Puerto Rican crowds in New York. If you formed a committee for these candidates how exactly would it be different than just having voters who worked in the area, reported on the area or followed the area vote on him? It's tougher for some Australian candidates but they'll still have their shot in the historical committee. As will Colon if he doesn't squeak in. How can you even consider the current voting pool "peers and people who followed and reported on his career?" Anyone who has a ballot can vote for the other category and that is exactly the problem. You'll get folks like Alvarez who can't be considered informed enough to cast a vote considering how must disinterest he has shown in wrestling in the past decade. Have you ever heard him talk about Barnett/Australia? Talk about the baseball stadium sellouts in Bayamon? You get people who may be familiar with one portion of the world but then suddenly has to concern themselves with a giant catch-all for people who don't fit into normal categories. This category along with Historical and Non Wrestler really should get the consideration and treated differently like the Frick Award for BBWAA. You get historians and people who actually know the candidates rather than the electorate. The best things voters should do for these categories, in my opinion, is opt out and force Meltzer to reformat the HOF (hahaha this is never going to happen). MassRafTer posted:Colon's drawing in other territories is marginal at best and not sustained. The entire Caribbean is not a major territory here, that's why most major stars kept other islands as infrequent stopping off points. PR was definitely a hot bed but even then if you look at major stars they would leave their hot beds and succeed in many more places than Colon. Colon is most comparable to Lawler except Lawler was seen as a great worker by his peers. Colon outdrew the Mid South Coliseum for the baseball stadiums shows at Puerto Rico's peak. I see your Lawler comp and probably he's the candidate with the most in common with Colon, but I don't believe in doing if X was better than Y shouldn't get in. I'm a large hall apologist because you aren't telling the accurate story of wrestling in this area at this time period without having your Carlos Colons, Mark Lewins and Killer Karl Koxes.
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Oct 7, 2015 20:17
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MassRafTer posted:I hope his vote share goes up again. 
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Oct 7, 2015 20:19
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NotQuiteQuentin posted:How can you even consider the current voting pool "peers and people who followed and reported on his career?" Anyone who has a ballot can vote for the other category and that is exactly the problem. You'll get folks like Alvarez who can't be considered informed enough to cast a vote considering how must disinterest he has shown in wrestling in the past decade. Have you ever heard him talk about Barnett/Australia? Talk about the baseball stadium sellouts in Bayamon? You get people who may be familiar with one portion of the world but then suddenly has to concern themselves with a giant catch-all for people who don't fit into normal categories. This category along with Historical and Non Wrestler really should get the consideration and treated differently like the Frick Award for BBWAA. You aren't supposed to vote in any region you aren't qualified for. Having people selected for each region is something I am very iffy on and self selection hasn't seemed like a major issue in the past beyond white noise shitheads like David Bixenspan who tried to hurt Tanahashi's candidacy with non-votes in Japan, but every Hall of Fame is going to have those issues. I've said earlier that the Other Category sure isn't perfect but given the system and that candidates like Colon will have a second chance in Historical I don't really have an issue. I have no problem with Colon being in and expect him to get in this year, but he's definitely someone with question marks and seems like the exact type of candidate who was going to have trouble. Lawler also fits the comparison because he had a number of detractors who hated him for reasons outside of being a performer. I don't see Lawler as a reason Colon shouldn't be in or not, he's just an easy comparison and someone with an easier argument because in time wrestlers came to see him as one of the best in the business, so if he'd been voted on in the 80s he'd have trouble but by the mid 90s he was nearly universally liked by his peers. To me Non-Wrestler is the major problem area and needs to be addressed. MassRafTer fucked around with this message at 20:25 on Oct 7, 2015 |
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Oct 7, 2015 20:23
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sting
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Oct 7, 2015 20:25
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I'm not sure what the issue with a blank ballot for Japan in 2013 is? Were any of the guys on there slam dunk candidates?
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Oct 7, 2015 20:31
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Spermgod posted:I'm not sure what the issue with a blank ballot for Japan in 2013 is? Were any of the guys on there slam dunk candidates? It's an issue when you do it to keep a guy out, just how it is lame and stupid how baseball writers send them in for similar reasons.
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Oct 7, 2015 20:33
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If he genuinely thought there were no HOF-worthy candidates that year I don't see what difference motivation makes tbh
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Oct 7, 2015 20:37
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MassRafTer posted:Laws often exist defacto that have no basis de jure. do we got any soup de jure back there I'm starving
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Oct 7, 2015 21:11
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MassRafTer posted:The Hot Summer theories were good but Bryan's explanation for why Devon always gets the tables was better. Craig misunderstanding that was pretty hilarious too. "So if Bubba's so good at it, why is he sending Devon?" "Because he knows Devon will screw it up and they won't get DQed!"
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Oct 7, 2015 21:53
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NickRoweFillea posted:get dave to send this forum a single vote We'd just send back the ballot scratched out and with "Adam Cole  " written in without any explanation.
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Oct 7, 2015 21:54
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Jerusalem posted:We'd just send back the ballot scratched out and with "KANE" written in without any explanation.
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Oct 7, 2015 22:24
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Jerusalem posted:We'd just send back the ballot scratched out and with "Cesaro" written in without any explanation.
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Oct 7, 2015 22:48
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Jerusalem posted:We'd just send back the ballot scratched out and with "Gary Strydom" written in without any explanation.
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Oct 7, 2015 22:50
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I just want to say that out of everybody on the ballot, I'm most upset Akira Taue's status as an utter no-hoper with a really low vote share. I used to think JYD was a no-brainer because he was such a big deal in Mid-South, but after tweeting Dave about it I think it's fair that he doesn't get many votes -- he was utterly poo poo as a worker, had no longevity, and his peak period was very brief.
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Oct 8, 2015 00:29
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JYD was not as lovely of a worker as Big Daddy however
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Oct 8, 2015 00:54
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DynamiteKidd posted:I just want to say that out of everybody on the ballot, I'm most upset Akira Taue's status as an utter no-hoper with a really low vote share. He's not even the best drummer in the Four Pillars.
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Oct 8, 2015 03:21
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DynamiteKidd posted:I just want to say that out of everybody on the ballot, I'm most upset Akira Taue's status as an utter no-hoper with a really low vote share. I was surprised too but Dave has said multiple times him and Akiyama always get no support from their peers.
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Oct 8, 2015 04:51
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Wrestling Observer Live was interesting today. Ed has been banned from the show for a week and someone shilled the pillow fight league.
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Oct 8, 2015 05:05
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I wonder how many texts Bryan really gets. I sent two in yesterday and he read them both.
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Oct 8, 2015 05:24
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I hope Hot Summer goes on forever so I can get Lance's analysis on Bryan's theories forever and Bryan trying to get him to admit something about the storyline is good.
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Oct 8, 2015 05:39
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Oct 8, 2015 08:29
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Newest Observer Radio is up, already a good listen. Bryan: Let me finish my statemen- Dave: No no no nononononono
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Oct 8, 2015 10:35
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lol at Mike using the SW TUF season as an example of establishing a good division: "It's a good thing Carla won"
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Oct 9, 2015 03:12
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Jerusalem posted:Newest Observer Radio is up, already a good listen. He's absolutely right about Bayley though. Either they'll get out of their own way and she may actually be the female star they need to get this whole revolution thing to work properly. Or she's going to bomb worse than Emma.
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Oct 9, 2015 03:24
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Big Dave talking 1950s weightlifting with Bruno Sammartino 
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Oct 9, 2015 03:31
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I could listen to Bruno tell stories for hours
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Oct 9, 2015 05:36
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That bit about the village in Italy calling him up on his 80th birthday was glorious.
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Oct 9, 2015 05:37
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Gaz-L posted:He's absolutely right about Bayley though. Either they'll get out of their own way and she may actually be the female star they need to get this whole revolution thing to work properly. Or she's going to bomb worse than Emma. Deep down, everyone knows that there's really only one option here and how it's going to play out.
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Oct 9, 2015 05:50
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GoutPatrol posted:I was surprised too but Dave has said multiple times him and Akiyama always get no support from their peers. Akiyama to me isn't a Hall of Famer in truth. Being in the main event for a long time does not mecessarily make you an all time great. He is always below Misawa, Kawada and Kobashi on the totem pole... he's like a Japanese DDP to me almost. He was great, but he's not an all time great.
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Oct 9, 2015 05:57
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