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DD has a different type of challenge curve going on exactly because it isn't over in an hour. Despite you guys saying that the enemy variety is bad, I think each area feels pretty different. The resists, attacks, and the way enemies function all work a bit different and gives some solid character to each place. I'd like to see more new stuff, but I also understand that you need the game to teach players what is going on if you want to be somewhat successful. Too many things at the start to learn, stuff added too fast to learn as it comes, things functioning too differently than before are all major pitfalls that I'm glad they're being careful about. Even just running into the new enemies at higher difficulty levels can be rough, and even without new abilities a lot of the bosses are quite dangerous at higher levels. Like the other guy said, run 0 light if you want to ratchet up your tension. If you're feeling like the game is a slog and no fun, then I agree with the other people that perhaps it is time to move on. Hope you had fun until it got to that point though. Personally I'm still having fun, and I've gotten well more than my moneys worth out of this game.
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Oct 7, 2015 21:39
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| # ? May 30, 2024 00:16 |
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ZypherIM posted:DD has a different type of challenge curve going on exactly because it isn't over in an hour. DD has a pretty large dose of management sim in it, so yes, the pacing and challenge curve are vastly different than you would expect from traditional CRPS or roguelikes.
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Oct 7, 2015 21:58
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I think for Sigma, it comes down to active, constantly clicking on poo poo, pew pew happening visuals keeping him entertained versus DD's slower paced, more atmospheric setting, where you benefit from playing slower and weighing options ahead of time / each turn of combat. Sounds like TBS is just not for him. Like someone else said, you could copy his complaints for DD and paste them right into a FTL post. So I'd just chalk it up to realtime w/pause play versus turn based.
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Oct 7, 2015 23:28
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Jade Star posted:I think for Sigma, it comes down to active, constantly clicking on poo poo, pew pew happening visuals keeping him entertained versus DD's slower paced, more atmospheric setting, where you benefit from playing slower and weighing options ahead of time / each turn of combat. Sounds like TBS is just not for him. Like someone else said, you could copy his complaints for DD and paste them right into a FTL post. So I'd just chalk it up to realtime w/pause play versus turn based. Or maybe, he just finds the game lacking due to his own subjective view and predilections. What's more interesting is why it's such a big deal to you that he doesn't like the game in first place?
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Oct 7, 2015 23:49
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Jade Star posted:I think for Sigma, it comes down to active, constantly clicking on poo poo, pew pew happening visuals keeping him entertained Jesus man, no need to be condescending about it.
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Oct 7, 2015 23:57
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pew pew lasers poo poo is also extremely good
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Oct 8, 2015 00:21
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Jade Star posted:I think for Sigma, it comes down to active, constantly clicking on poo poo, pew pew happening visuals keeping him entertained versus DD's slower paced, more atmospheric setting, where you benefit from playing slower and weighing options ahead of time / each turn of combat. Sounds like TBS is just not for him. Like someone else said, you could copy his complaints for DD and paste them right into a FTL post. So I'd just chalk it up to realtime w/pause play versus turn based. I mean I've been playing TBS games for multiple decades but you sure seem hellbent on dictating exactly why my not digging this game is a personal flaw making me Not A Real Gamer instead of the game being a drawn out slog that you enjoy, so yeah I can only enjoy games that are the audiovisual equivalent of shaking your car keys in front of me  The TBS part, for like the 30th time, is not the issue. The issue is that you play the same low stakes fight like 30 times without any meaningful progression or interruption to the monotony of Use Back Row Attack On Back Row Guy. Like, the game is mechanically complex but none of it loving matters, having dual health currencies doesn't really matter much when you have very little meaningful interaction with them because enemy targeting is completely random and enemy encounter makeup is split evenly between them. Positioning is irrelevant outside of guys who gently caress up your positioning to disable attacks, and despite the complexity of a 4 v 4 positioning, it really just breaks down to a binary of "my guy can/can't use his ability because his position is/isn't correct for him." And this is why every fight feels the same. They push all the mechanical complexity to this even flatness of poo poo that doesn't matter because enemy encounters are all pretty much well-rounded teams vs your well-rounded team and there's very little to really min/max. The combat is samey as hell, and the management / metagame portion that wraps around it has no progression or interesting choices to make because nothing in this game is high stakes.
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Oct 8, 2015 01:07
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dogstile posted:Jesus man, no need to be condescending about it. Not intended. My apologies. Not trying to dig at people.
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Oct 8, 2015 01:32
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I think everyone's hit on what I like so much about the game though, it does feel very deliberately paced. I mean, I'm a huge fan of Space Hulk (the first one, not Ascension), and that one is super methodical and RNG-y, so that should give an idea of where I'm at. I'm currently at something like 80 hours total with Darkest Dungeon according to Steam, and I've gotten back into it since the Cove update. The pace is perfect for me, and I typically spend 5-10 minutes just optimizing the party before I jump into a mission. I love the game more all the time, and don't regret the slightly embarrassing amount of money I put into the Kickstarter for a change. Also, I have to keep remembering it's still in Early Access, how cool is that? With the tweaks and content heading the direction they've been going so far, it's going to be quite a finished product.
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Oct 8, 2015 02:14
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The only thing I don't really like is having to build another team from scratch once they leveled up beyond some bosses.
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Oct 9, 2015 05:10
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amuayse posted:The only thing I don't really like is having to build another team from scratch once they leveled up beyond some bosses. Honestly, it would be cool if there were an option to level up manually so that you wouldn't outlevel content. The worst is when your roster is full and you have four low-level characters you're building up and three of them hit level 3 and leave the fourth at level 2. Like... what the gently caress are you supposed to do? Even if you have three characters die, you'll recruit three new ones but then the level 2 guy immediately outlevels them.
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Oct 9, 2015 09:46
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It's not ideal and I'm not defending the mechanic, but you could have them carry the 2 through a short mid-level dungeon to level him or her up. You could make it a little easier by having level 4s do it. There's an ancestral trinket that boosts XP by 50% too which can be helpful for catching up characters who are falling behind.
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Oct 9, 2015 09:50
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Yeah, it's a very frustrating situation, how carefully you have to manage your roster. Especially with the new patch reducing the XP cost to level up, it's really hard to keep up with how fast your people advance in terms of upgrading the guild and blacksmith. I feel like I'm going to wind up going into Champion-level dungeons with Veteran-level skills and equipment and really that's just a recipe for getting murdered.
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Oct 9, 2015 10:01
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By the way, on a bit of a related note, does anyone else think that Veteran-level content is by far the easiest in the game? Especially with a level 4 party, you seem perfectly positioned to cut a bloody hole through Veteran dungeons.
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Oct 9, 2015 10:08
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Eh, whenever you can do levels and have a level advantage in gear and skills it's a lot easier. Why aren't you recruiting and juggling a full roster of peeps? It let's you play all sorts of comps and people leveling doesn't really matter since just throw a level 2 with some 1's and they'll make it through a bit safer.
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Oct 9, 2015 19:28
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Time_pants posted:The worst is when your roster is full and you have four low-level characters you're building up and three of them hit level 3 and leave the fourth at level 2.
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Oct 9, 2015 22:57
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aw, no. oh poo poo. one level 2 guy in a full roster. aw, hell.
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Oct 9, 2015 23:05
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Black Wombat posted:Yeah, it's a very frustrating situation, how carefully you have to manage your roster. Especially with the new patch reducing the XP cost to level up, it's really hard to keep up with how fast your people advance in terms of upgrading the guild and blacksmith. I feel like I'm going to wind up going into Champion-level dungeons with Veteran-level skills and equipment and really that's just a recipe for getting murdered. So far my strategy of sorting by level and trying to use whoever is weakest is paying off.
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Oct 9, 2015 23:08
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So I've just started a new manor after having played way back in pre-release phase and am really enjoying all the changes. I decided to mix things up a bit this time around and focus on some of the characters I hadn't used in the past. The one that is really coming to life now that he has a couple of levels is the Jester who I had never used much in the past I start most fights with him in the 3rd rank, and let him us bleed skills, before using his dirk stab skill to move him forward 1 rank at a time, and then dropping the hammer with Finale which. Although he's a bit squishy, his really high dodge means he's pretty survivable even up front. The other dude who is an absolute rock in the party is The Man-At-Arms. Reaching rank 3 to take care of casters and Retribution are so useful.
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Oct 10, 2015 01:26
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DOWN JACKET FETISH posted:aw, no. oh poo poo. one level 2 guy in a full roster. aw, hell. EXACTLY! Thank you! This guy understands how I feel!!
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Oct 10, 2015 01:35
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Well I'm glad I can't read. Edit the file to increase roster size?
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Oct 10, 2015 04:39
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How good of a quirk is Fated? Is it worth paying to make it permanent?
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Oct 10, 2015 08:05
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FourLeaf posted:How good of a quirk is Fated? Is it worth paying to make it permanent? No one knows, but people generally treat Fated like it's good. Hit chance is capped at 90%, so even very accurate characters benefit from it.
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Oct 10, 2015 08:42
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FourLeaf posted:How good of a quirk is Fated? Is it worth paying to make it permanent? PS- Please don't say it's super good because I just had a character with it die right after making it permanent. Snow Job posted:No one knows, but people generally treat Fated like it's good. Hit chance is capped at 90%, so even very accurate characters benefit from it. YOU EVIL FUCKER Time_pants fucked around with this message at 23:27 on Oct 10, 2015 |
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Oct 10, 2015 08:58
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Snow Job posted:Hit chance is capped at 90% what why
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Oct 10, 2015 12:51
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because its the DARKEST DUNGEON and you can't have nice things like perfect accuracy.
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Oct 10, 2015 13:14
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From what I remember poking around in the data files, it's implied that Fated turns 10% of your misses into hits. So, not really super good (that's +1% accuracy for someone at the hit cap, +3% accuracy for a modest 70% chance to hit, etc.)
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Oct 10, 2015 14:15
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Well, it also depends on whether all misses are treated equally. If a miss from an enemy making it's dodge is treated the same as a 'true miss', then it's valuable. Even then, it's a second chance to get that hit in. I'm not sure if it's right to class it as simply as '1% extra hit'.
Bloodly fucked around with this message at 14:32 on Oct 10, 2015 |
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Oct 10, 2015 14:30
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Got this game recently and while I keep playing I'm not sure whether I'm actually enjoying it. Mostly because I'm really not sure what to do with my guys. Upgrading their skills, weapons or armor, even for the level 2 guys, feels like a total waste of resources. There's always the inevitable bunch of runs where they collect diseases, stress, and poo poo quirks like they're commemorative stamps, and go from potentially-decent to pile-of-poo poo that I'd have to treat for a month. They're all like flypaper hanging above a slab of rotten meat, and once they've collected their usual list of horrible quirks and ailments, I either pay thousands or kick them to the curb and replace them with other eager murderhobos. Where's the tipping point from treating my guys as disposable to seeing them as 'enlisted'? On the off-chance that they reach level 2 without too many crippling qualities? Level 3? If one of those 'top' guys manages to collect multiples diseases and other poo poo, is it still worth salvaging them? Cause for the cost of treating one guy, I might just as well upgrade another, hell, two if I don't have to buy too many skills. They're all interchangeable and there's nothing unique about them to grow attached to anyway. I really miss some sort of Xcom-style progress and customization for my units. Making progress through mostly the hamlet feels very empty after a while.
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Oct 10, 2015 23:58
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I never find the diseases or bad quirks debilitating enough that it's a massive issue.
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Oct 11, 2015 00:01
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I just picked this up yesterday. I'm really enjoying it. I scrapped my first start because I tried to actually upgrade my dudes, then I read some guides and it does make a lot more sense to just scrap anyone who goes too crazy or sick before level 3 and try again. the RNG can be pretty brutal but I kind of like it, it's sort of refreshing to play a game where dungeons can actually be dangerous. The one thing I don't like is that often the most efficient thing to do is keep one weak enemy stunned so you can heal/destress your guys because there's no way to do it out of combat.
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Oct 11, 2015 00:04
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Take one step outside the starting room, and...
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Oct 11, 2015 00:11
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A collection of diseases can be pretty debilitating, especially on melee guys. And ever since I've had one guy, either compulsive or dark temptation I think, spawn a horrible demon that ended in a wipe, I've begun dismissing everyone who gets any of the quirks that makes them want to steal, sniff corpses, or pray to the dark lords or whatever the hell that was. DOWN JACKET FETISH posted:Take one step outside the starting room, and... Did you already get the shuffle on that one? Usually my 100 light surprise shuffles feel like they end with my healer up front and my melee at the rear end-end, but I'm probably just imagining Murphy's law. Getting a 'surprise' from a group that furthermore contains those tentacle-pull guys is the worst, nobody is in position and neither will they. I should know, they ended up killing the only jester I've seen in weeks.
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Oct 11, 2015 00:21
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If someone gets a bunch of bad negatives before level 2 or so I'll scrap them, but level 1 upgrades are so cheap that you should basically always get them. Level 1 guys with upgrades are really strong compared to fresh dudes. Some diseases you'll want to cure like tetanus, others are ignorable. Don't worry about keeping everyone squeeky clean, just keep an eye out for the big ticket items. Recent patch broke the thing they had to prevent you from having conflicting quirks, I'd assume that'll change again at some point. The only thing you'll want to cure quirk wise is if you have something like "only will gamble" and "not allowed to gamble", or sometimes if there is a harsh "light above 75%" penalty. Sometimes you'll want to just make a run for cash or something and already plan on tanking the guys, but you don't need to plan to do that from the start. Think of it as a sort of recovery option or something to do to experiment with different classes. Keep in mind most of the things about not upgrading were before they rebalanced costs for upgrades, so early ones are pretty cheap but they get expensive fast.
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Oct 11, 2015 00:28
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Fleve posted:Did you already get the shuffle on that one? Usually my 100 light surprise shuffles feel like they end with my healer up front and my melee at the rear end-end, but I'm probably just imagining Murphy's law. Getting a 'surprise' from a group that furthermore contains those tentacle-pull guys is the worst, nobody is in position and neither will they. I should know, they ended up killing the only jester I've seen in weeks. Yeah, I was too slow with the print-screen key. The spiders only swapped my crusader and highwayman around. I was about to leave without any shovels until I sold some food back, as well, as it was only a Short dive.
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Oct 11, 2015 00:31
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ZypherIM posted:If someone gets a bunch of bad negatives before level 2 or so I'll scrap them, but level 1 upgrades are so cheap that you should basically always get them. Level 1 guys with upgrades are really strong compared to fresh dudes. Some diseases you'll want to cure like tetanus, others are ignorable. Don't worry about keeping everyone squeeky clean, just keep an eye out for the big ticket items. Recent patch broke the thing they had to prevent you from having conflicting quirks, I'd assume that'll change again at some point. The only thing you'll want to cure quirk wise is if you have something like "only will gamble" and "not allowed to gamble", or sometimes if there is a harsh "light above 75%" penalty. Thanks, I'll start treating my level 1-2 guys better and see how that'll end up. I've had most healers upgraded already, the default heals are too pitiful, but for 250 bucks or something getting some additional accuracy would be pretty nice on my Leper at least I guess. The armors look like they'd make the most difference, but at 750 a pop that's a bit expensive. I've been reluctant to use my level 2's, not just because of potential cure costs, but I've read they'll refuse to do lower runs when they level to 3 and I didn't want that to screw with my roster too much.
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Oct 11, 2015 00:48
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Looks like they may have stealth-nerfed the Pelagic Grouper's Seaward Slash attack so it no longer inflicts massive bleeding on your dudes. I didn't notice a patch note but I'm in the Cove now and my guys aren't bleeding (or resisting bleeding) when hit.
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Oct 11, 2015 00:54
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More accuracy in general is good on everyone, things tend to do more damage and have better success rates. Upgrading equipment is a bit more expensive but is a really big increase: damage, speed, hp, dodge. You should be able to afford it pretty easily, if not you might be spending money on stuff unnecessarily or missing out on curio loot. If you want suggestions on that go ahead and ask, I know some people don't want that but I'd be happy to outline how I go about it. Other options are to do a fresh group on a dark run, just take a stack of food and a couple shovels on a short run. Don't worry about level 2's out leveling things. All the bosses can be beat by a decent level 1 party, and higher level stuff usually has better quest payouts so you want to get up there eventually.
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Oct 11, 2015 01:27
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A few months ago, I beat all the bosses at lvl3 by using an A team and a B team. My best teams were very cheesey, like, Barbarian-Barbarian-Highwayman-Vestal aoe team, or when Man at arms was release ManAtArms,BountyHunter-Occultist-Arbalest. The game got a bit stale as every dungeon and every fight went pretty much the same. Sun Trinkets and prot were pretty OP at the time also, and once I got enough of them for the full party I didn't get into danger very often. I'm doing a playthrough now with a self-imposed rule: I'm only allowed one of each class, and I'll win when all bosses are defeated and everyone is max level. I'm having much more fun like this, I have to soldier on with some very unusual lineups, and somehow make use of the drat Jester. I'm trying to figure out which classes are the best for each dungeon (don't bring bleed guys to the ruins), getting better at using things like knockbacks, and learning to not rely on having a Vestal for every team. I haven't seem all the new trinkets yet, but the Sun trinkets got hit hard. It seems like the high end trinkets got nerfed but there are some better options early. One sleeper trinket is the common one that gives you -20% to be surprised, I never leave home without someone carrying it. One obnoxious thing so far is that everyone is level3 but I still need to kill 2 of the low level bosses, I'm going to have to level up some extras just to have guys that are eligible to beat them so I can start using my level 3+ guys to kill the Tier2 bosses.
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Oct 11, 2015 02:12
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Fleve posted:Got this game recently and while I keep playing I'm not sure whether I'm actually enjoying it. At some point you need to accept that your characters aren't going to be perfect--realize that 3-5 negative quirks and maybe a disease or two is standard for mid-upper level characters. Treat the ones that are crippling, fire characters that have particularly bad luck with quirks, and live with the rest. Oh boo hoo you have a penalty to bleed resist? Put a bandaid on it and get the gently caress back in the dungeon. You're going to need a stable supply of higher level dudes to make any progress, and if you're sacking everybody it's going to be very slow progress. Most players comfortably hit a groove where they're rotating through 8 or 12 or so characters, adventuring with one batch while another one recovers. The good news is that advancement is not strictly tied to characters. As you upgrade your hamlet and acquire better equipment and trinkets, treatment gets faster and cheaper, and missions become more manageable so you need less treatment jn the first place. But the game was designed with the idea that individual characters will have flaws and will need downtime.
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Oct 11, 2015 02:24
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