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The Something Awful Forums > Archives > Comedy Goldmine > The Goodmine > TRUMP: holy FUCK its november 8th

«‹›14088 »

Mrit: Sep 26, 2007; by exmarx; Grimey Drawer

goodog posted:

Texas, 1968

Ron Paul closes his well-worn copy of Atlas Shrugged and rises from his chair.

"Well that's enough reading for tonight son, see you in the morning."

"I love you dad" Rand says

Ron pauses, and says nothing.

"Do you love me dad?" Rand asks

"Love is altruism son. Love implies ownership, and ownership of people is slavery. Weren't you paying attention?" Ron replied.

"Ok dad, I'm sorry..."

"And remember, if you leave the night light on you owe me 6 cents tomorrow morning."

This made me legit sad.

# ? Oct 11, 2015 08:48

Adbot: ADBOT LOVES YOU

# ? May 28, 2024 02:05

Project M.A.M.I.L.: Apr 30, 2007; Older, balder, fatter...

Nessus posted:

Would you say that... service would... improve citizenship, serve as a sort of guarantee of it, if you would.

:golfclap:

# ? Oct 11, 2015 09:15

Nessus: Dec 22, 2003; After a Speaker vote, you may be entitled to a valuable coupon or voucher!

crazy eyes mustafa posted:

Quoting him, dissecting the quote = okay
Taking him seriously as a candidate and contemplating what the Jews should have done during the Warsaw Uprising = no, just no

what are you, the post-stapo?? I DO NOT CREATE JOINDER

What's kind of grim is that in ten years they're going to be able to do poo poo like this freely and there will in fact be, statistically speaking, nobody alive from back then any more.

# ? Oct 11, 2015 09:23

meristem: Oct 2, 2010; I HAVE THE ETIQUETTE OF STIFF AND THE PERSONALITY OF A GIANT CUNT.

crazy eyes mustafa posted:

Quoting him, dissecting the quote = okay
Taking him seriously as a candidate and contemplating what the Jews should have done during the Warsaw Uprising = no, just no

Point of order. There were TWO uprisings in Warsaw during the Nazi occupation of Poland. The first one was the Ghetto Uprising, and it was, indeed, led by the Ghetto Jews. The *second* one was the Warsaw Uprising, which took place in August 1944, and was primarily done by the *Polish* residents of Warsaw (and was quickly squashed because the civilian forces were obviously insufficient while Stalin *wanted* the Poles to bleed out against the Nazis, and so decided to cozily winter literally on the other side of the river instead). Jews couldn't really much participate in the latter on account of, y'know, the Ghetto having been 'liquidated' and the inhabitants having been shipped to Auschwitz-Birkenau in the meantime.

By the way, a fascinating account of the destruction of the Ghetto is Kazimierz Moczarski's Conversation with the Executioner. Moczarski was a journalist and a part of the Polish Resistance who, after the war, got thrown by the Polish Stalinist secret police into the same cell as Jurgen Stroop, who commanded the Nazi forces during the Ghetto destruction. Because they both expected to die, they, well... conversed. So, that's a firsthand account from the Nazi point of view.

I'm not sure if Stroop's views on 'what if the Jews had more guns' are included, though.

# ? Oct 11, 2015 09:32

William Bear: Oct 26, 2012; "That's what they all say!"

Comparison of the Jeb and Romney campaigns so far:

quote:

On paper, Jeb Bush�s 2016 campaign mirrors Mitt Romney�s 2012 efforts, but Bush faces a far steeper climb to the nomination, political watchers say.

With three popular outsider candidates leading the race, rising establishment contenders and the failure to lock down any of the early-voting states so far, Bush is beset by burdens that never weighed on Romney.

�Without hesitation, I�d say I�d much rather be Romney in 2011 than Bush in 2015 at this point,� said former Iowa Republican Party political director Craig Robinson.

Bush and Romney both entered their races well-funded, with strong campaign organizations and deep support from the Republican establishment.

Their struggles are also similar.

Neither has been a favorite of grass-roots conservatives eager to see change in Washington come from a non-ordained candidate, and both have policy stances that are non-starters for some base voters. For Romney, the issue was RomneyCare; for Bush, it�s Common Core and immigration.

And Bush now faces serious challenges from a host of insurgent candidates, as Romney did on his way to the nomination in 2012. But this time around, Republican voters have shown no indication that they�ll be willing back someone with Bush�s pedigree for the nomination.

Many still believe Bush, the self-described "joyful tortoise," is well-positioned to ride out this year�s insurgent wave. Like Romney in 2012, some Republicans believe Bush�s institutional advantages will deliver a victory for him in a key early-voting state as others falter and Republicans flock behind a steady candidate with general election appeal.

But that�s where Bush�s path diverges from Romney.

Bush�s struggle starts in the polls, where the huge field of candidates has fractured support across a spectrum of alternatives.

Donald Trump and Ben Carson are in the top tier of candidates, according to the RealClearPolitics average of polls, while Bush is scrapping with Carly Fiorina, and Sens. Marco Rubio and Ted Cruz in the second tier.

In 2012, even as Romney had to beat back repeated challenges from upstart candidates, he always maintained a high floor of support and remained within reach of the top spot.

Romney had no competition for the establishment mantle, giving him an air of inevitability. Bush is in a dogfight just to win in his own lane.

He faces a threat from fellow Floridian Rubio, who has moved past him in many polls, and even former CEO Fiorina, who is picking up support from lawmakers, has drawn the attention of the Koch Brothers and is increasingly viewed by many as the most refined outsider candidate with potential to scoop up establishment support.

Bush�s struggle to maintain his grip amid this pack of contenders can be traced to a major fundamental difference between this cycle and the last.

In 2012, the insurgent candidates needed Romney, the establishment frontrunner, so they could play the foil: They were the �anyone but Romney� candidates.

In 2016, the insurgents are not Bush alternatives, said Monmouth University pollster Patrick Murray. Worse, they�re indifferent to him.

�If there�s a sense that you�re the person that they need to pit someone against, that suggests you have a strong base of underlying support,� Murray said.

�But Donald Trump and Ben Carson aren�t �anyone but Bush� candidates. They�re tapping into an entirely different mindset in which Bush is irrelevant. In 2012, it was always Romney and someone who is not Romney. We�re not having that conversation about Jeb, and that speaks volumes.�

And Romney always had an ace-in-the-hole.

�Romney had New Hampshire in his back pocket the whole time,� Robinson said.

Romney, from neighboring Massachusetts, held a double-digit lead in New Hampshire throughout. He was guaranteed at least one victory in a carve-out state.

Bush has no such guarantees. He is in sixth place in Iowa and fourth place in New Hampshire, which many believe is a must-win state for him. Even if he could wait it out to Florida�s primary on March 15, he�s behind in the polls Trump and Carson in his home state.

Still, Bush has considerable advantages over many in the field, and his advisers routinely say there�s no candidate they�d trade places with.

Bush�s campaign is likely to end the third quarter as one of the best-funded, along with Carson and Cruz. Bush�s supporting super-PAC, Right to Rise, is light-years ahead of every other outside group, thanks to an enormous early-year haul of over $100 million.

The campaign and super-PAC are blanketing the airwaves in early voting states with ads, and the next few weeks will be critical in assessing whether that spending contributes to lifting Bush out of his polling stagnation.

Bush also has one of the most comprehensive campaign infrastructures, including the biggest field operation of anyone in Iowa, where analysts say an establishment candidate can still win, as Romney nearly did in 2012. Bush also has scores of endorsements from key activists, and state and federal lawmakers, who will be working on his behalf.

That�s the profile of a winner, says Eric Fehrnstrom, a top adviser to Romney�s campaign in 2012.

�Romney won the nomination because of the discipline he showed on the campaign trail, the money he amassed through his impressive donor networks, and the strength of the organization he put together,� Fehrnstrom said. �Bush has those things too, so it would be a mistake to count him out. He has the ability to persevere.�

http://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/256565-romneys-path-to-nomination-eludes-jeb

I forgot that Jeb calls himself a "joyful tortoise". If Trump hasn't mocked that yet, he should.

The most interesting claim in this story, to me, is the quote that this primary is different because Trump/Carson/Fiorina are not reactions to Bush. I guess that's true, they seem more like reactions against the establishment of the GOP in general. Does that change anything?

# ? Oct 11, 2015 12:33

Pompous Rhombus: Mar 11, 2007

William Bear posted:

I forgot that Jeb calls himself a "joyful tortoise". If Trump hasn't mocked that yet, he should.

W... what is the context of that quote? :pwn:

:pwn:

# ? Oct 11, 2015 12:49

Eat_at_Milliways: May 3, 2006; bald_kid

Pompous Rhombus posted:

W... what is the context of that quote?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KcgVUmt-Ews

# ? Oct 11, 2015 13:05

Coheed and Camembert: Feb 11, 2012

William Bear posted:

The most interesting claim in this story, to me, is the quote that this primary is different because Trump/Carson/Fiorina are not reactions to Bush. I guess that's true, they seem more like reactions against the establishment of the GOP in general. Does that change anything?

Bush is the most establishment-y of them all. Something like 90% of the men in his family are career politicians and he has done literally nothing to differentiate himself from Kasich, Rubio, or Christie.

Why the hell would you describe yourself as a joyful tortoise?

# ? Oct 11, 2015 13:28

blue squares: Sep 28, 2007

Pompous Rhombus posted:

W... what is the context of that quote?

he made an MSN screenname and accidentally chose one of the random options

# ? Oct 11, 2015 13:29

Thump!: Nov 25, 2007; Look, fat, here's the fact, Kulak!

Riosan posted:

Bush is the most establishment-y of them all. Something like 90% of the men in his family are career politicians and he has done literally nothing to differentiate himself from Kasich, Rubio, or Christie.

Why the hell would you describe yourself as a joyful tortoise?

It connotes energy!

# ? Oct 11, 2015 13:35

Bryter: Nov 6, 2011; but since we are small we may-
uh, we may be the losers

goodog posted:

Texas, 1968

Ron Paul closes his well-worn copy of Atlas Shrugged and rises from his chair.

"Well that's enough reading for tonight son, see you in the morning."

"I love you dad" Rand says

Ron pauses, and says nothing.

"Do you love me dad?" Rand asks

"Love is altruism son. Love implies ownership, and ownership of people is slavery. Weren't you paying attention?" Ron replied.

"Ok dad, I'm sorry..."

"And remember, if you leave the night light on you owe me 6 cents tomorrow morning."

well it was only ever going to be down hill from this peak:

# ? Oct 11, 2015 13:39

nachos: Jun 27, 2004; Wario Chalmers! WAAAAAAAAAAAAA!

Bush's claim to fame (besides his pile of money and infrastructure) is that he was a conservative governer in a 15-17 candidate primary where two of those have already dropped out and the other is polling even worse than him.

# ? Oct 11, 2015 13:40

pig slut lisa: Mar 5, 2012; irl is good

Bryter posted:

well it was only ever going to be down hill from this peak:

This picture reminds me of a favorite 2012 moment: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mIx8quNGwhQ

# ? Oct 11, 2015 14:51

Hamelekim: Feb 25, 2006; And another thing... if global warming is real. How come it's so damn cold?; Ramrod XTreme

goodog posted:

Texas, 1968

Ron Paul closes his well-worn copy of Atlas Shrugged and rises from his chair.

"Well that's enough reading for tonight son, see you in the morning."

"I love you dad" Rand says

Ron pauses, and says nothing.

"Do you love me dad?" Rand asks

"Love is altruism son. Love implies ownership, and ownership of people is slavery. Weren't you paying attention?" Ron replied.

"Ok dad, I'm sorry..."

"And remember, if you leave the night light on you owe me 6 cents tomorrow morning."

To be fair, Ayn Rand would say that love is perfectly fine because it's personal selfishness, or something like that. There's some video on the youtubes where she is asked about having a husband and how can she love him etc....

# ? Oct 11, 2015 14:56

Mr. Pumroy: May 20, 2001

Hamelekim posted:

To be fair, Ayn Rand would say that love is perfectly fine because it's personal selfishness, or something like that. There's some video on the youtubes where she is asked about having a husband and how can she love him etc....

fortunately personal selfishness also justifies her affair, but when her affair slept with another woman, that was actually not okay because oh gosh i just ran out of energy to keep up this bullshit

# ? Oct 11, 2015 15:09

Montasque: Jul 18, 2003; Living in a hateful world sending me straight to Heaven

Decent article from the Times:

The Republicans� Ugly Revolt

quote:

But then who? If the electorate really is more defiant than ever, Bush is done. Scott Walker and Rick Perry are already gone. Voters, it appears, prefer someone brattier.

Someone like Ted Cruz.

�He�s perfectly positioned himself to own that space when Trump and Carson disappear,� said a Republican operative who is among the smartest analysts I know. �He�ll be a force to be reckoned with. I think that he has a very clear path to the nomination, as much as that horrifies me.�

Yep, once Trump, Carson, and Fiorina flame out this is all Ted Cruz's show. He's got the money, and the ground game, but he is severely lacking in charisma.

# ? Oct 11, 2015 15:44

Hodgepodge: Jan 29, 2006; Can't post for 213 days!

You know, I don't like to rag too much on Hillary ' likability, but running against Cruz may just be the one way she could manage to come off as downright charming.

# ? Oct 11, 2015 15:56

Golden Bee: Dec 24, 2009; I came here to chew bubblegum and quote 'They Live', and I'm... at an impasse.

Montasque posted:

Decent article from the Times:

The Republicans� Ugly Revolt

Yep, once Trump, Carson, and Fiorina flame out this is all Ted Cruz's show. He's got the money, and the ground game, but he is severely lacking in charisma.

He's got those Simpsons impressions!

# ? Oct 11, 2015 15:56

Sir Tonk: Apr 18, 2006; Young Orc

Montasque posted:

Decent article from the Times:

The Republicans� Ugly Revolt

Yep, once Trump, Carson, and Fiorina flame out this is all Ted Cruz's show. He's got the money, and the ground game, but he is severely lacking in charisma.

Can you imagine what it's going to look like with Cruz as the front-runner against Clinton and Sanders? The dude just *looks* like a scumbag and once you hear him talk you realize he's somehow worse than you imagined.

# ? Oct 11, 2015 16:06

Gyges: Aug 4, 2004; NOW NO ONE
RECOGNIZE HULK

William Bear posted:

Comparison of the Jeb and Romney campaigns so far:

http://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/256565-romneys-path-to-nomination-eludes-jeb

I forgot that Jeb calls himself a "joyful tortoise". If Trump hasn't mocked that yet, he should.

The most interesting claim in this story, to me, is the quote that this primary is different because Trump/Carson/Fiorina are not reactions to Bush. I guess that's true, they seem more like reactions against the establishment of the GOP in general. Does that change anything?

Iowa is probably going to be the most interesting race because the Republicans are going to provide an experiment in the effectiveness of campaign infrastructure in the age of social media and smart phones. The top contenders are outsiders with questionable ground games and campaigns primarily focused on the candidate saying things to the national media. Meanwhile the middle tier candidates mostly seems to be running a traditional campaign heavy on infrastructure and more emphasis on the candidate working with that infrastructure for specific states instead of simply making speeches and talking to the media.

Trump and Carson have a good chance of leading the polls up until the week before the caucus, when they crater due to likely voter contractions in the polls. Or, even worse for them, maintain their lead up to the day of the caucus and then find out that people being totally jazzed for Trump doesn't directly translate to them trudging to a school gym in the cold February evening and siting around for a couple hours while people chit chat about the structural things that are the purpose of the caucus. Fiorina is coasting on a not-Trump, look at the shiny wave from the last debate and is still relying primarily on the donations of other candidates to stay in the race. Meanwhile Cruz, Rubio, and Bush started their campaigns with the idea of maximizing votes in early primary states and looking at national picture as a secondary picture made up of the individual primaries.

Of course this could all turn the conventional wisdom on it's head. Maybe Trump and Carson really do inspire their fans to stick it out through the whole caucus. Maybe Trump's overtures at a ground game actually materialize into something after he actually starts spending his own money on it seriously. Maybe Rubio, Bush, and the rest underperform because the primary base really are finally, really, super mean it this time done with the establishment.

Or, perhaps even scarier, we learn that Ted Cruz has masterfully positioned himself as the bridge between the establishment and the unrefined Tea Party. Given no choice, the establishment turns to him while he alone is able to stare full into the abyss of the Tea Party and make them blink first.

# ? Oct 11, 2015 16:16

Thump!: Nov 25, 2007; Look, fat, here's the fact, Kulak!

Sir Tonk posted:

Can you imagine what it's going to look like with Cruz as the front-runner against Clinton and Sanders? The dude just *looks* like a scumbag and once you hear him talk you realize he's somehow worse than you imagined.

If it comes down to the GOP having to turn to loving Ted "gently caress the Establishment" Cruz, then yeah they don't have a chance in hell of getting a single electoral vote.

# ? Oct 11, 2015 16:40

Gyges: Aug 4, 2004; NOW NO ONE
RECOGNIZE HULK

Thump! posted:

If it comes down to the GOP having to turn to loving Ted "gently caress the Establishment" Cruz, then yeah they don't have a chance in hell of getting a single electoral vote.

They can nominate a literal lump of coal and still be guaranteed 180 or so.

# ? Oct 11, 2015 16:44

point of return: Aug 13, 2011; by exmarx

I feel like the Establishment would probably pick someone like Fiorina even over Ted Cruz.

# ? Oct 11, 2015 16:56

Air Skwirl: May 13, 2007; Neither snow nor rain nor heat nor gloom of night stays these couriers from the swift completion of their appointed shitposting.

crazy eyes mustafa posted:

Godwin Losing is too close to Good Will Hunting. YOURE THE MAN NOW DOG

That line is from Finding Forester, not Good Will Hunting.

# ? Oct 11, 2015 17:11

The Glumslinger: Sep 24, 2008; Coach Nagy, you want me to throw to WHAT side of the field?; Hair Elf

Gyges posted:

They can nominate a literal lump of coal and still be guaranteed 180 or so.

Too ethnic

# ? Oct 11, 2015 17:14

Phlegmish: Jul 2, 2011

Thump! posted:

If it comes down to the GOP having to turn to loving Ted "gently caress the Establishment" Cruz, then yeah they don't have a chance in hell of getting a single electoral vote.

There are plenty of ideologically committed people who would vote for their party no matter the specific people involved. Actually, come to think of it, I can't really think of any circumstances under which I would change my usual vote unless they started modifying the platform itself.

# ? Oct 11, 2015 17:15

Three Olives: Apr 10, 2005; Don't forget Hitler's contributions to medicine.

AP posted:

AMA CITY (AP) � The directors of the Trump Ocean Club met July 28 on urgent business. They needed to fire Donald Trump.

The building's residents and condo owners had invested in the namesake, a 70-story waterfront tower along Panama Bay, on the strength of Trump's reputation. But during the four years that Trump Panama Condominium Management LLC had managed the property, Central America's largest building, a team installed by the Trump family was accused of running up more than $2 million in unauthorized debts, paying its executives undisclosed bonuses and withholding basic financial information from owners, according to an Associated Press examination.

The Trumps had done all of this through fine-print chicanery, the board said. A clause in many residents' purchase agreements prevented them from voting against the Trump company's wishes. That allowed the Trumps to install their top employee as chairman and the residents' representative on the board � even though the Trumps' actual stake in the building's residential area was merely a storage closet on the 15th floor.

The Trump Organization sent its response days later. "Your letter is a complete sham," wrote the Trumps' top lawyer, Alan Garten. He accused the board of ingratitude and criminal trespassing. After refusing to accept being fired, Garten declared that Trump's company was quitting � and demanded a $5 million termination fee.

Whether wheeling and dealing with Wall Street bankers, debating political rivals or running a condo association, Republican presidential candidate Donald Trump has advanced his interests by leveraging his outsized reputation, canniness and aggression. The Trump Organization's adventures in Panama provide a window into how these traits have filtered into his business empire � and the style of management that could be expected in a Trump White House. Transparency and close attention to expenses are not strengths. Squeezing the most from contractual language is.

Though Donald Trump lists himself as managing member in the Panama business in campaign financial disclosure documents, the company in practice is part of the Trumps' family business. In an interview, Trump's son Eric called the squabbling at Trump Ocean Club a minor aside in the story of how the family's affiliation with the building created "an amazing icon and, frankly, a great testament to America."

The power struggle at the tower shows the powerful allure of Trump's name � and the disenchantment and separation that sometimes follow. Even that is indicative of Trump's style: As the Ocean Club's board was trying to settle into the administrative offices, Trump's people cut off the office's Internet and phone service and repossessed the office copy machine. The Trump Organization acknowledged this to the AP, saying that disconnecting services was necessary for security and privacy concerns.

Without Donald Trump, the development would not exist. But the grand ambition behind it belongs to Roger Khafif, a businessman with a prime waterfront parcel in Panama City and an aspiration to build a condominium, hotel, marina, casino and commercial center in the arcing shape of a wind-filled sail.

What Khafif lacked was the long track record as a developer needed to lure international banks and construction firms for such an expensive project.

"A lot of people were saying it was never going to be built," said Duncan McGowan, a real estate agent and property manager who has sold units in the Trump Ocean Club since before construction began.

Bringing Trump aboard bolstered the project's credibility with potential buyers, too.

"I am proud to develop this extraordinary high rise," Trump said in a brochure, promising that the building would be a "landmark in Latin America and the Caribbean."

In interviews and later legal filings, condo owners said Trump's record as a builder persuaded them to pay deposits on their units. But despite being listed as the Trump Ocean Club's developer in marketing materials, Trump wasn't. His formal role was limited to branding and promoting the project with his name, though Eric Trump said the Trump Organization regularly monitored construction to make sure it met quality standards.

Even licensing Trump's name carried a huge cost. A 2007 bond prospectus pegged Trump's expected licensing fees alone at $75.4 million � more than a third of the $220 million total raised.

Despite a promising start to construction, cost overruns and the global financial crisis took a heavy toll. Four months after Trump joined Panama's then-president, Ricardo Martinelli, for the building's ribbon-cutting in July 2011, Khafif's company defaulted on its debt. Though the bankruptcy also affected Trump's licensing fees, court files indicate that Trump's total payout remained between $32 million and $55 million.

Those profits make Trump the only party to the original deal to come out ahead. After emerging from bankruptcy just last year, Khafif is no longer in charge and his former company is again failing to make debt payments. Current bond prices suggest that creditors are expecting to suffer significant losses on their bonds. And despite the building's iconic silhouette and amenities � visitors can sip drinks next to a 65th floor edgeless pool that appears to float above the ocean � most of the hotel condo units that remain under Trump's direct management still have not been sold.

Khafif is no longer in charge of the development company that built the Trump Ocean Club, and did not respond to a phone call and email seeking comment. But neither the developer's current management nor the project's bondholders begrudge the Trumps' success, said Rosella Viola, a commercial sales manager for the developer.

"Buyers buy because of the brand," she said.

Most of Trump's windfall in Panama came from licensing, but separate deals gave Trump a role after the project was up and running. One Trump company would run the project's 369 hotel rooms. Another held a much smaller contract to serve as the building's overall administrator. It was supposed to act under the guidance of the owners of the condos, office space, shops and other property in the Trump Ocean Club.

Trump was essentially a condo manager but not in the usual sense. His organization negotiated unusually broad authority, including power of attorney to represent all unsold hotel condo units and most absentee residential condo owners at building association meetings. Because many purchasers lived abroad, the proxy votes controlled by Trump's team gave his company a decisive say over condo affairs.

Buyers learned they were granting their voting rights to Trump only when signing a lengthy final sales agreement, said Al Monstavicius, a retired Nevada doctor who bought a penthouse unit.

"I shouldn't have signed that," Monstavicius said. "But there was nothing I could do because my money was committed. Trump's got smart attorneys, and he pays them well, and he takes advantage of that."

One final move solidified the Trumps' clout. Their company took possession of a storage closet on the 15th floor. That physical presence in the building qualified the Trump's chief executive, Mark Stevenson, to serve as president of the owners' board.

Trump's company was now in full control, though few residents saw that as a problem.

"Most people were initially quite happy," McGowan said. "The idea was, a prestigious building should have a prestigious management team."

But a conflict of interest loomed.

Trump's management company was owned by the same people who ran the hotel, by far the most expensive part of the building to operate. Shuffling hotel expenses to the rest of the building would make the hotel look more profitable.

Documents obtained by the AP show the Trump team charged to the common payroll hotel-specific expenses like bellhops' salaries and hotel room safe repair. Condo owners couldn't tell whether they were being shortchanged, because the Trumps didn't keep separate tallies. Although Trump's management team was contractually required to "establish and maintain segregated bank accounts" for each of the building's components, the team never did.

Managing separate bank accounts would have added costs, the chief financial officer of the Trump Hotel Collection, Michael Straube, wrote in a 2012 letter rebuffing an owner who asked for them.

Such bookkeeping transparency took on increasing urgency given the Trumps' failure to stay within the boundaries of its owner-approved budget. The building burned through its reserve funds two years after it began operation, incurring unapproved debts of more than $1.1 million in 2013 and again in 2014.

Eric Trump said the overspending was the result of extraordinary expenses like a broken water main and rising local labor costs.

"We made the budget, other than extraordinary things we can't control," he said. "We had an unbelievable team, and we managed to an internationally renowned set of standards."

Malcolm Oscar, who bought a unit with the hope of retiring there, said: "There was always some type of explanation that was supposed to make things more palatable."

Trump executives also appeared to award themselves mysterious bonuses. The building's unit owners still don't know the size of those incentives and the Trump Organization has refused to disclose them, according to members of the board.

Eric Trump told the AP the awards were appropriately authorized � but did not provide specifics of how or when such authorization took place.

Concerns about overspending and transparency boiled over at the owners' meeting in December, after the Trump administrators announced its second million-dollar deficit. Managers at the meeting also said they would shift a greater portion of future costs to the building's residential units.

"It was like peeling back layers of an onion � every layer you remove makes you cry," said McGowan, the real estate agent and property manager on the building's board. "That owners' meeting turned into a screaming match. Civility was lost."

A rebellion brewed among the condo owners, sparked by the proposed $2.2 million special assessment that would hit them in the spring. The dissidents, helped by McGowan, contacted condo owners scattered around the world. If enough of the building's disparate owners designated someone other than the Trumps as their legal representative, the dissidents could overcome the Trumps' control over the owners' association.

When the vote came in May, all but two of the owners representing themselves opposed the Trump team's special assessment. The building's developer and the casino operator lined up against it, too. Against nearly unanimous opposition, Trump's remaining proxy votes weren't enough.

The day after residents delivered their rebuke, Stevenson resigned as both administrator and chairman of the building's board. Another Trump employee with a board seat followed a few weeks later.

With Trump's top man in Panama now gone, Eric Trump and higher-ranking Trump Organization executives in New York stepped in. After negotiations to lower costs stalled, the building's newly restive board fired Trump's management company and the senior building administration staff who reported to it. The new administration estimates those cuts alone will save hundreds of thousands of dollars a year.

Following a period of heated correspondence between the Trump Organization and the Trump Ocean Club's board, a tense cooperation has set in. The new administration has shifted scores of employees to the Trump hotel payroll, allowing the Trumps to manage the hotel as they see fit.

"The hotel is something near and dear to our heart, something that does require real expertise," Eric Trump said, noting that the hotel management contract runs for 40 years.

Despite the Trumps' $5 million termination fee claim, Eric Trump said the family does not intend to sue the building's owners collectively over what it still contends was an illegal firing. Likewise, board members such as Duncan McGowan say there is little interest in pursuing any claims against the Trumps or prolonging any feuds. The majority of the hotel condo units that went on the market in 2011 are still for sale, and it's in everyone's interest to get along.

"The hotel management is still Trump, and the flag is still Trump � we have no problem with Trump," said Viola. "We can't have international buyers thinking there are problems in the building."

Even condo owners who expressed distaste for the Trumps' contractual power plays agreed.

"He's a predatory businessman," said Monstavicius. But the Trump name stills holds allure.

"It attracted me," he said, "and attracted a lot of other people."

The entire world has an abusive relationship with Trump. I mean this is just the most recent thing but time after time he has proven himself to be a thug that deserves to be in prison but they keep coming back.

# ? Oct 11, 2015 17:25

Mister Facetious: Apr 21, 2007; I think I died and woke up in L.A.,
I don't know how I wound up in this place...

Smoothrich posted:

I'm not sure what your point is here. With 20/20 hindsight, you think all the Jews acted in their best interest by obeying Nazi commands to dig their own graves and get shot in the back of the head by the millions?

If only the Jews had ~~guns~~ 20/20 hindsight 75 years ago... :ohdear:

:ohdear:

# ? Oct 11, 2015 17:27

Lote: Aug 5, 2001; Place your bets

Three Olives posted:

The entire world has an abusive relationship with Trump. I mean this is just the most recent thing but time after time he has proven himself to be a thug that deserves to be in prison but they keep coming back.

The idea was doomed to failure. Condos? In MY Central America?

# ? Oct 11, 2015 17:37

Sancho: Jul 18, 2003

quote:

The Trumps had done all of this through fine-print chicanery, the board said.

Hmm so it turns out people should read contracts closely after all!

# ? Oct 11, 2015 17:43

Sancho: Jul 18, 2003

Seriously like a guy getting a payday loan for an Amway welcome kit.

# ? Oct 11, 2015 17:47

Patter Song: Mar 26, 2010; Hereby it is manifest that during the time men live without a common power to keep them all in awe, they are in that condition which is called war; and such a war as is of every man against every man.; Fun Shoe

New CBS/NYT poll.

Clinton 46
Sanders 27
Biden 16
Webb 2

Trump 27
Carson 21
Cruz 9
Rubio 8
Fiorina 6
Jeb! 6
Paul 4
Christie 3
Huckabee 2
Kasich 2
Santorum 1

Since CBS' last poll in September, Donald Trump declined from 27 to a mere 27. Truly, the Summer of Trump has ended.

Also, Cruz in third.

# ? Oct 11, 2015 17:48

William Bear: Oct 26, 2012; "That's what they all say!"

Three Olives posted:

The entire world has an abusive relationship with Trump. I mean this is just the most recent thing but time after time he has proven himself to be a thug that deserves to be in prison but they keep coming back.

Pity the US doesn't own the Canal anymore. President Trump could have used the same trick to take the whole country.

# ? Oct 11, 2015 17:55

sullat: Jan 9, 2012

Gyges posted:

They can nominate a literal lump of coal and still be guaranteed 180 or so.

Coal will sweep the Appalachians and do well in the mountain west. Might give them an edge in PA and OH, too. Not the worst idea for 2016, IMHO.

# ? Oct 11, 2015 18:01

Three Olives: Apr 10, 2005; Don't forget Hitler's contributions to medicine.

Sancho posted:

Hmm so it turns out people should read contracts closely after all!

This is the pile of poo poo I got when I bought my condo. And I live in a well managed building and we have to sometimes bring in attorneys to interpret it.

I knew through friends who were well connected that there was nothing odious about how the place operated. I read every page of that pile of poo poo and I still don't know what it means, I asked a few questions to my attorney, friends and the building and signed my name. Like most people I relied on the well deserved reputation of the people involved.

That's the thing, Trump somehow seems to have a good reputation even though there there are miles of records saying that he is going to rape you, poo poo on your face and then sue you for ruining his sheets.

# ? Oct 11, 2015 18:08

Sancho: Jul 18, 2003

I'd guess the prospect of making money makes people overlook a lot of red flags.

# ? Oct 11, 2015 18:17

Rocks: Dec 30, 2011

Patter Song posted:

New CBS/NYT poll.

Clinton 46
Sanders 27
Biden 16
Webb 2

Trump 27
Carson 21
Cruz 9
Rubio 8
Fiorina 6
Jeb! 6
Paul 4
Christie 3
Huckabee 2
Kasich 2
Santorum 1

Since CBS' last poll in September, Donald Trump declined from 27 to a mere 27. Truly, the Summer of Trump has ended.

Also, Cruz in third.

Lol Jeb in 6th, Rand Paul is almost beating him

# ? Oct 11, 2015 18:39

Patter Song: Mar 26, 2010; Hereby it is manifest that during the time men live without a common power to keep them all in awe, they are in that condition which is called war; and such a war as is of every man against every man.; Fun Shoe

From that CBS poll:

Best chance of winning in November:

Trump 35
Carson 18
Rubio 11
Jeb! 10
Fiorina 7
Cruz 5

Favorability among Republican Primary Voters:

Carson 62/7
Trump 53/29
Rubio 50/12
Fiorina 45/13
Jeb! 32/38

Again, "But Trump's high unfavorables doom him! Jeb!'s don't matter, don't worry about that."

Favorability with the general electorate:

Carson 34/22
Trump 28/53
Rubio 27/25
Fiorina 26/21
Jeb! 20/48

# ? Oct 11, 2015 18:56

Jewel Repetition: Dec 24, 2012; Ask me about Briar Rose and Chicken Chaser.

Sir Tonk posted:

Can you imagine what it's going to look like with Cruz as the front-runner against Clinton and Sanders? The dude just *looks* like a scumbag and once you hear him talk you realize he's somehow worse than you imagined.

Rabies and bunnies: lemme think about it for a second over here.

# ? Oct 11, 2015 19:27

Adbot: ADBOT LOVES YOU

# ? May 28, 2024 02:05

Jewel Repetition: Dec 24, 2012; Ask me about Briar Rose and Chicken Chaser.

Patter Song posted:

From that CBS poll:

Best chance of winning in November:

Trump 35
Carson 18
Rubio 11
Jeb! 10
Fiorina 7
Cruz 5

Favorability among Republican Primary Voters:

Carson 62/7
Trump 53/29
Rubio 50/12
Fiorina 45/13
Jeb! 32/38

Again, "But Trump's high unfavorables doom him! Jeb!'s don't matter, don't worry about that."

Favorability with the general electorate:

Carson 34/22
Trump 28/53
Rubio 27/25
Fiorina 26/21
Jeb! 20/48

Is Carson's favorability worse now?

# ? Oct 11, 2015 19:29

The Something Awful Forums > Archives > Comedy Goldmine > The Goodmine > TRUMP: holy FUCK its november 8th

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