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Tomn posted:OK, the Oda are definitely a tricky start. Unless things go amazingly right, you're probably going to want a minimum of four fleets to guard your borders come realm divide due to having potential enemies in every direction. It was actually my drat vassals that instigated the realm divide fighting the Ikko Ikki. Once that happened I said gently caress it and attacked Kyoto because my vassal was going to cross me anyways. I looted it for a big money gain so I could blitz my immediate neighbors and shore up defenses, but it's back to the army management to maintain my income. Naval wise my main tactic is to dogpile the enemy bow kobayas and then pick off bunes one by one using the Nihon Maru as a mobile fire support base. Army tactics are a frontline charge with yari ashigarus forming a spear wall just before contact, throw in the reserve to break them and then mop up with three Yari Cav and my general. Arc Hammer fucked around with this message at 14:43 on Oct 9, 2015 |
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Oct 9, 2015 14:41
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Arcsquad12 posted:It was actually my drat vassals that instigated the realm divide fighting the Ikko Ikki. Well, there's your problem. Why were you making vassals pre-Realm Divide? Multiple vassals even, from the sound of it? They'll only betray you, tie up garrison forces to await their inevitable betrayal, and cause problems like this. Not really sure what specific advice I can offer to get you out of the current hole without looking at your save, but at a minimum you might try detaching the Nihon Maru to form its own one-ship-fleet to give you a little extra naval flexibility and seeing how quickly you can secure any given front so as to free up troops/disband them entirely to save on maintenance. Cutting down on the surface area you need to defend is going to be key, and if you can afford it (maybe by raising taxes as an emergency measure) start recruiting new fleets to guard your borders because an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure when it comes to naval invasions. Re: naval tactics, the basic thing to do is to line up your bunes, have them all boarding different enemies (think of them as your "line" troops), and then use the bow kobayas as "cavalry" to sweep around from the rear and hurl fire arrows into enemy ships engaged in melee, which usually breaks them, at which point you can begin detaching victorious bunes to provide fire support to other melees or to engage victorious enemy ships in melee. A solid mass of bunes, medium or heavy, is obviously vital to this. The Nihon Maru can solo enemy fleets in managed right, just keep sailing around shooting and never board. It's a little unsafe without any escorts, but it'll give you much-needed strategic flexibility right now.
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Oct 9, 2015 15:21
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Regarding Bunes, are Sengoku's poo poo or is it just the way I'm using them? I've stuck to Mediums and Heavies because they have the warcry ability and a healthy archer complement.
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Oct 9, 2015 15:57
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I don't recall getting a whole lot of use out of them, no.
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Oct 9, 2015 16:32
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I kept one for chasing down fleeing ships but they're really not that good.
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Oct 9, 2015 16:36
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I didn't think so. They were just fodder for my kobayas. Fast, but not maneuverable and easy to burn. Is there a good graph for building markets? I understand the farm/food basics but markets I only really build on resource provinces like gold mines or lumberyards.
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Oct 9, 2015 16:41
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Try Siege Bunes if possible, they murder enemies and suffer small losses. I've triggered Realm Divide too early as Oda too, and small fleets of them was what saved me. The only way you can lose is getting rushed by Sengoku Bunes.
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Oct 9, 2015 18:55
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Arcsquad12 posted:I didn't think so. They were just fodder for my kobayas. Fast, but not maneuverable and easy to burn. Oh just you wait, I can't be bothered to go get the graphs, but just you wait. I'm sure a certain someone will be along shortly
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Oct 9, 2015 19:34
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Would my plan of counter invasion against the Ito be a good idea to starve them of money? They only landed two stacks and both were very samurai heavy, so it's obviously a big investment on their part. Would it be better to blitz their territories and have their armies bankrupt them, or forgo my recapturing lost provinces and just wipe out the invaders?
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Oct 9, 2015 20:30
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Arcsquad12 posted:Regarding Bunes, are Sengoku's poo poo or is it just the way I'm using them? I've stuck to Mediums and Heavies because they have the warcry ability and a healthy archer complement. Medium Bunes are the Autoresolve kings and that's why I used them exclusively for my navies. If you have to do the battles you can do a nice mix of bow koboyas and medium bunes but don't overlook just how useful the medium bunes are in auto calcs. A stack of 8 of those should clean up just about any navy you can face. In terms of building Markets, I like to run a big food surplus and build markets everywhere. I only upgrade one or two to grain exchange the rest I leave at the first level. Buddhist temples are also great because they give +happy, +research, and don't have a downside. So markets are like my default first option, buddhist temple second, and this applies to provinces that aren't making troops or huge moneymakers. Ham Sandwiches fucked around with this message at 20:36 on Oct 9, 2015 |
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Oct 9, 2015 20:34
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Is there any end game maps for the Attila fertility? I tried a Sassanid campaign and soon I found myself having 2x farms per town and nothing else, and I fear ever having to go near 450 or Turkey. Am I doomed to only have 1-2 levels of development in most places?
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Oct 9, 2015 21:36
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Arcsquad12 posted:Would my plan of counter invasion against the Ito be a good idea to starve them of money? They only landed two stacks and both were very samurai heavy, so it's obviously a big investment on their part. Would it be better to blitz their territories and have their armies bankrupt them, or forgo my recapturing lost provinces and just wipe out the invaders? I just went back to look over your previous posts, and let me see if I have the situation straight: You're already fighting a two-front war with a premature realm divide and a woefully understrength navy when some other fuckers from some distant realm sailed in not one, but TWO full stacks to run loose in your rear territories, causing irreparable economic damage (that is, the accumulated town wealth), and what you're currently doing in response is to send an army to clean up behind them and maybe one day catch up to their stacks in order to stop them ripping out the heart of your empire. And if I understand you correctly you're considering sending a counter-invasion force across the sea, presumably on your already overstretched navy, to "starve them out" while they have full stacks loose inside your soft underbelly ripping out the heart of your economy? If I have that all right, then you are way overthinking this and you need to seriously reexamine your priorities. Your first priority should be to intercept and kill the invading stacks before they cause more damage - retaking lost territory is purely secondary to that and should be done only if it doesn't slow you down from not letting the invaders do even more fresh damage, since after all you can pick off their weakly garrisoned new conquests easily once the field armies are gone. Your second priority should be to secure your fronts, both naval and land, to prevent this poo poo from happening again, and from the sound of it that means as much new naval construction as you can afford so as to set patrolling fleets anywhere where the enemy might come from. You also need to look very carefully at the fronts you're pushing because it feels like you have a problem with focus - you have a major push northeast to knock out the Uesegi, which is good because once you're done there you should be able to turn those armies around to reinforce other fronts or even disband entirely if you really need the money. But you also have a campaign against the Hattori simply because their ninjas are bothering you, which is probably bad - ninjas are annoying, but they're not the existential threat that armies are and if you're expanding recklessly simply to knock out a single clan's agents you're going to find yourself overstretched with poor defensive lines. And now you're considering a naval counterinvasion simply because the enemy landed a stack in your homeland, which is insanity - this is realm divide, every clan in Japan that isn't immediately adjacent to you is going to be sending invasion fleets and you should be putting up a wooden wall to prevent them getting in instead of trying to retaliate against one clan at a time. You're getting distracted, and that's not good. Pick one overall goal and bend all your efforts towards that, with everything else being largely defensive unless you're absolutely sure you can advance with little difficulty and secure a new, stronger defensive line. I'd suggest focusing on the NE myself - sealing off a single direction of threat allows you to focus all your strength down one direction and grants you a larger, safer rear economic zone. But what exactly to do depends on what exactly the map looks like right now, so it's your call in the end. Just try to shorten the front lines as much as possible.
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Oct 9, 2015 21:52
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Tomn posted:
The Uesugi currently have one major stack in the region around Echigo (my reserve army captured it just before the Ito landed and I pulled them out) and only control four provinces in the NE corner of the map. I have my main army trying to bait the Uesugi stack into an ambush or force them to sally from a siege so I can destroy it. After that it should just be a matter of conquering their castle towns. I pushed the Hattori as far back as Bitchu while I control the majority of central Honshu. Apart from their ninjas they cannot field a comparable army to Nobunaga's stack. Rebels control most of the northern coast west of Wakasa and I'm happy to let them stay that way while I deal with the invasion. Apart from the two stacks that slipped my fleet I think I have the Ito navy held around Shikoku, and I also sank a Chosokabe invasion fleet as well. Current save is a quicksave before an Ito attack against Izu. I have a large Ashigaru force there assembled from some of the southern coast towns on top of the garrison, so my plan is to cause as much damage as possible to the enemy stack or defeat it, and then sweep in with the reserve army to besiege them should I lose Izu. The second Ito army landed further west, so I am redirecting my western reserve army (just west of Kyoto) to counterattack while again gathering as many troops from surrounding provinces as I can to hold them. Arc Hammer fucked around with this message at 22:38 on Oct 9, 2015 |
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Oct 9, 2015 22:33
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Gaj posted:Is there any end game maps for the Attila fertility? I tried a Sassanid campaign and soon I found myself having 2x farms per town and nothing else, and I fear ever having to go near 450 or Turkey. Am I doomed to only have 1-2 levels of development in most places? There's a mod that decreases food needs if you find the fertility mechanic too awful. In the base game if you have enough coastal provinces you should be able to work it out though by stuffing fish into everyones mouths.
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Oct 9, 2015 22:38
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Update: Izu and Suruga withstood the invasion armies, so the Ito forces are in tatters. Moving on Echigo with my NE force, reserve army is reclaiming lost territories. Bitchu lost to christian rebels. Another Chosokabe fleet is trying to push a stack onto my land but the Nihon Maru fleet is on the way to intercept. Hattori are getting swallowed by the Ito so I think they've lost the cash to continue with Ninja actions. A second fleet is being built, three bow kobayas already finished, medium bunes on the way. Update 2: Second fleet is up and running, Uesugi are contained around Noto and Kaga as well as the two northernmost provinces. They have one half stack army and one major fleet on the north coast. Not a big threat. Hattori making a bit of a comeback with naval forces. One fleet covers the Shikoku straits while the other guards the south side. Going to be moving them further west once I take Tosa. Chosokabe keep trying to send invasion stacks and I keep sinking them. One turn away from Gunpowder mastery. Income is up to 4500 per turn, rear provinces with markets and fertile farms. Arc Hammer fucked around with this message at 06:11 on Oct 10, 2015 |
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Oct 10, 2015 03:17
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man it doesn't get much better than being attacked in empire except instead of attacking the AI just keeps shuffling their formation forever and when they finally move forward the game crashes 
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Oct 11, 2015 09:27
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Empire is the aristocrats joke of Total War.
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Oct 11, 2015 10:08
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Gobblecoque posted:man it doesn't get much better than being attacked in empire except instead of attacking the AI just keeps shuffling their formation forever and when they finally move forward the game crashes those are next generation mind-games.
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Oct 11, 2015 13:34
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I've started playing Shogun 2 again recently, and I've noticed that it and Rome 2 aren't really that different in terms of mechanics/annoyances. But it's an enjoyable experience, even if I get screwed because of agent/stratmap/navy/AI fuckery. I really think the biggest difference comes from the UI, and how easy it is to get a read on your situation. Is Attila "fun"? Do people "enjoy" playing it?
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Oct 12, 2015 01:30
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Oh its very much a gam eplay improvement over Rome 2, the politics and family dynamic make it feel like you are real head of your family, managing a nation and its various counties. In that its like CK2. But I will say Attila LOOKS like garbage, and even I find the mail textures offensive.
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Oct 12, 2015 01:51
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Slim Jim Pickens posted:I've started playing Shogun 2 again recently, and I've noticed that it and Rome 2 aren't really that different in terms of mechanics/annoyances. The best part of going back to Shogun 2 for me is how clear and functional everything is. Build markets, make money. Build archery dojos, make archers. I'm not worrying about my food surplus or slave intake or whether my cheap spear levies match up to the enemy's cheap spear levies. Personally I reckon Attila would be really fun if it didn't run like total poo poo for me. I'm can handle Ultra/Very High settings across the board in Rome II and still play big 40v40 battles with like 30 - 40 fps, but I can barely handle a 20v20 on 'Max Performance' with poo poo textures. Sorta kills it when everything looks and runs awful, but I'm probably in the minority or something. e: I'll post about this everywhere I go on the internet, Attila runs really really badly and its the only game I own which is like it
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Oct 12, 2015 01:51
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Nah you're not in the minority, it runs way worse than Rome 2. I don't think it looks that bad though, but it is very drab and muddy. It's a very unique entry in the series and pretty fun, just not as the same style empire builder most of the rest of the games are. I don't personally enjoy trying to build a standard faction the same way I do in some of the other games, but just going around burning poo poo as the Huns is some of the most fun I've ever had in Total War.
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Oct 12, 2015 01:57
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So I beat my Oda campaign and I've put my newfound naval prowess to the test with a Mori campaign. Currently sitting on about 150 grand of koku, goddamn do those extra archers on bunes make a difference. Everyone loves me because I've got a monopoly on the trade nodes around Kyushu, so I can pick and choose who to fight based on what my allies the Chosokabe are doing. There is a big question that lingers however, and that is whether Christianity is worth it or not. I've been trying to keep the religion under control with monks and temples, but I'm curious what sort of advantages I could earn by converting. I assume it would be a bad thing for my diplomacy to say the least.
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Oct 12, 2015 06:13
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Koramei posted:Nah you're not in the minority, it runs way worse than Rome 2. I don't think it looks that bad though, but it is very drab and muddy. Ah, good thing to know it's not just me. I also think the graphics look pretty good when they're actually turned up, I just don't get functional fps on anything but the potato quality ones. Really keen to get my pillaging barbarian on but it'll have to wait until I get an upgrade!
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Oct 12, 2015 06:57
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Thanks for the Attila reccs everyone, I think I'll get it the next sale. If I can just put my feet up, ignore the province menu/submenu garbage, and watch the world get pillaged I think I'll be happy.Arcsquad12 posted:So I beat my Oda campaign and I've put my newfound naval prowess to the test with a Mori campaign. Currently sitting on about 150 grand of koku, goddamn do those extra archers on bunes make a difference. Everyone loves me because I've got a monopoly on the trade nodes around Kyushu, so I can pick and choose who to fight based on what my allies the Chosokabe are doing. There is a big question that lingers however, and that is whether Christianity is worth it or not. I've been trying to keep the religion under control with monks and temples, but I'm curious what sort of advantages I could earn by converting. I assume it would be a bad thing for my diplomacy to say the least. I've just kinda figured Shogun 2's diplomacy game, but got hamstrung by the Oda daimyo's -20 relations trait. I had no idea that you could make friends in a TW game but I guess you're doing it. Do the Mori ship bonuses help out? I always thought they were one of the weaker factions because I mostly use navies to guard my coasts and I don't build many ships. Christianity bonuses mainly come from the Nanban trade ship and matchlock access. Since you're Mori, you kinda have the naval stuff locked down anyways, and the imported matchlocks aren't super amazing.
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Oct 12, 2015 07:51
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Koramei posted:It's a very unique entry in the series and pretty fun, just not as the same style empire builder most of the rest of the games are. That's why you download Terminus, so you can have four Romes, a thousand barbarian kingdoms, a homeless roaming horde of Romans pillaging Persia, Huns, Mongols, Teutonic Orders and a Jewish Persian-Nomadic Ukraine.
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Oct 12, 2015 14:23
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Slim Jim Pickens posted:Thanks for the Attila reccs everyone, I think I'll get it the next sale. If I can just put my feet up, ignore the province menu/submenu garbage, and watch the world get pillaged I think I'll be happy. Mori ships have about ten extra archers and swordsmen per ship, so in a one on one fight a Mori Bow Kobaya's 40 archers will beat a regular 30 archers. Being able to dominate the seas and control the trade nodes with cheaper better ships has given me a monster economy.
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Oct 12, 2015 15:35
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Arcsquad12 posted:So I beat my Oda campaign and I've put my newfound naval prowess to the test with a Mori campaign. Currently sitting on about 150 grand of koku, goddamn do those extra archers on bunes make a difference. Everyone loves me because I've got a monopoly on the trade nodes around Kyushu, so I can pick and choose who to fight based on what my allies the Chosokabe are doing. There is a big question that lingers however, and that is whether Christianity is worth it or not. I've been trying to keep the religion under control with monks and temples, but I'm curious what sort of advantages I could earn by converting. I assume it would be a bad thing for my diplomacy to say the least. Aside from the units that others have mentioned, I seem to recall Christian churches being more powerful and useful than their Buddhist counterparts. Also, priests can be pretty powerful since inciting rebellion works best when your religion is a small minority within the targeted province, which applies to basically every province if you're Christian. It's not really anything amazingly sexy, to be honest. Not terrible, but not great, either. Use it as a matter of flavor more than anything else, I'd say. That being said, matchlock units can be pretty great to defend castles with, so there's that.
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Oct 12, 2015 21:00
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Tomn posted:Aside from the units that others have mentioned, I seem to recall Christian churches being more powerful and useful than their Buddhist counterparts. Also, priests can be pretty powerful since inciting rebellion works best when your religion is a small minority within the targeted province, which applies to basically every province if you're Christian. But can't you just get Matchlocks anyways with Buddhism while also retaining those sweet sweet Warrior Monks?
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Oct 12, 2015 21:07
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Arcsquad12 posted:But can't you just get Matchlocks anyways with Buddhism while also retaining those sweet sweet Warrior Monks? Eventually, but it takes a fuckton of research. Western trade allows for matchlocks much sooner in the game, closer to the critical period when you need every edge you can get. Matchlocks acquired through Western trade are more expensive and take longer to recruit, though, so again it isn't a decisive advantage. Oh yeah, now that I think of it I THINK Christian churches provide a strong bonus to chi research, so there's that as well. Check the encyclopedia to confirm, though, it's been a while.
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Oct 12, 2015 21:14
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Yeah Christian churches are each 5/10/15%+ to chi whereas Buddhist temples are 3/5/10%. IMO Christianity is fairly objectively more powerful (aside from the lack of warrior monks), but it needs to be since you get huge unrest and relations penalties for taking it. The big draw for me though (aside from the churches, the trade port, and the matchlocks) is being able to manufacture the nanban trade ships; it basically means you can go trucking around with fleets of mini-black ships, it completely trivializes the naval combat.
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Oct 12, 2015 21:52
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Missionaries being stupid broken is the main draw of Christianity, really. The chi research from churches is fairly moot for most games and you can get the matchlocks/nanban ships just from accepting the port prompt instead of actually converting as far as I remember. Just need to keep a temple/monk in that province. Christian games can be fun sometimes, due to the missionaries, but I'd only convert when you only have 1-2 province, maybe 3 at most. And when you might not mind just offing your daimyo the second you convert.
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Oct 12, 2015 22:33
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Or just play the Otomo since tercios are stupidly good.
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Oct 12, 2015 23:07
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Decus posted:you can get the matchlocks/nanban ships just from accepting the port prompt instead of actually converting as far as I remember. Pretty sure you need to convert for the trade ships, I think the port gives anyone matchlocks though. Converting might make them train faster or maybe I just made that up I dunno.
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Oct 12, 2015 23:56
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There are two levels of nanban port, anyone can get the first but to get the second (which has the trade ships) you do need to convert yeah. I've never actually played around with missionaries to be honest, but everything else christianity gives is still a huge enough draw for it to nearly always be worthwhile. And churches aren't pointless at all; as you expand, to convert the land you take, you end up building a bunch of them. And that's in addition to all the free building slots the AI leaves that I always fill up with churches. Faster chi research means you can go back to the cooler military research quicker, it's really quite important. Also if anything I tend to convert when I have a bigger empire so I can afford more stuff to do the converting with. There's nothing especially difficult about it as you scale up, it's just like switching allegiance or going republican in FotS.
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Oct 13, 2015 00:08
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Koramei posted:There are two levels of nanban port, anyone can get the first but to get the second (which has the trade ships) you do need to convert yeah. Nah, just capture a province that has one and surround it with buddism generators
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Oct 13, 2015 00:37
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StashAugustine posted:Or just play the Otomo since tercios are stupidly good. Love those guys. I built those up to the unit cap (3 I think?) and sent two of them in the spearhead army and left one behind in the core provinces on defense duty. A unit of Tercos and a bunch of scrub garrison troops were hilarious on siege defense. Attackers need a 5:1 advantage and arrow heavy army to pose a real threat. Being the first in the neighborhood to Nanban Trade Ships is a great perk too, especially starting on moneybags Kyushu next to all the trade routes.
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Oct 13, 2015 00:55
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I've recently started Shogun2 which is the first Total War I've played since the first one was released. I think I've got most of the basics down but how to use generals is still beyond me. Should you use your clan leader? Your heir? Or someone else? Should you try to level more generals or just use one/two wherever you can? I'll probably try a full run of FoS first if that is any help.
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Oct 18, 2015 01:01
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Generals gain exp for being in/winning battles as the commander. After enough exp, they gain a star/level. If you let your basic generals gain more stars than their daimyo they start to gain a big head and lose loyalty, which makes it easier for agents to turn them against you and when it's low enough they can just outright mutiny of their own accord, taking part of whatever army they command with them. Early on you can use Generals to rear-charge, before you have other cavalry, and they're always good for post-battle mop-up but generally speaking their key contribution is their aura--at base it at least provides a nice morale boost to anybody within it and you can use rally to increase it further. Inspire raises accuracy/attack power for the inspired unit and once they gain enough levels you can make their auras do other stuff like give stat boosts or lower enemy morale. As generals gain stars, they also improve the bonuses they give from their commissions so ideally you want to level your daimyo first and then your key commissioned generals and then your heir. Generals gain more exp when they're reinforcing with their own army rather than multiple generals per stack. Decus fucked around with this message at 03:12 on Oct 18, 2015 |
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Oct 18, 2015 01:32
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Yeah, use your Daimyo initially and build up a healthy amount of honour through leveling up and peacefully occupying territory while kicking the poo poo out of the enemy. Four or five honour is enough to ensure strong loyalty from your generals (though commissions and adoption can also help). Plus it is just fun to go rampaging across Japan as a historical leader like Nobunaga, or recreating the Dragon of Echigo by turning Kenshin into a cavalry charge monster. For me at least, I always go for the skills that increase infantry command and campaign map movement range for every general. After that, I tailor them depending on the forces they are using. Cavalry heavy forces get cavalry commander skills, and Oda especially need Ashigaru Commander as a high tier skill. From there I tweak them with loyalty increasing skills, but I tend to avoid the Bushido increasing ones. It's more effective to focus on the Chi arts which in turn allow you to make more fortresses that give you a better bonus towards Bushido research than Generals do, and those points can be used better elsewhere.
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Oct 18, 2015 01:44
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