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You mean where a few buildings are blown up and the they cut to credits after the flash of a penis? That hardly shows the scope of the fallout.
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Sep 30, 2015 04:03
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adrenaline_junket posted:Definitely watch The Machinest. Its one of Christian Bale's best movies. Very similar to American Psycho in terms of his character intensity. Plus the transformation in his body between this movie and Batman Begins is insane. I thought it was CGI at first, but its all legit. I wouldn't go that far but it's a pretty good little psychological thriller. It reminded me more of Jacob's Ladder than anything else, though. GutBomb posted:It was supposed to be obvious. Elliot even commented that everyone else already knew. It wasn't meant to be a plot twist. Elliot finding out for himself was the dramatic point of that scene. The whole time you were supposed to be 80% sure that Mr Robot was just Elliot. That and by being fairly obvious it distracted everybody and made them complacent so the actual twist with his sister completely blindsides you. It kind of reminded me of the switcheroo that Shutter Island pulled, where a lot of people I know refused to even see the movie because going off of the trailer it was "so obvious" that Teddy was the missing patient but the actual twist was that the events of the movie weren't a hallucination or a delusion but a roleplay that the entire island was in on to try and cure him by letting his fantasy run its course until he comes to term with reality on his own terms, and that it worked but Teddy pretended to still be crazy afterward because he'd rather be lobotomized that live with the knowledge of what he had done.
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Sep 30, 2015 04:06
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The "twist" is using a cliche to more deeply explore the psyche of the main character. Since we, the audience are a character in his mind as well he acknowledges that we knew the whole time, which of course we did. It's not rocket science, it expands on the character, his paranoia, and makes you as a character question how deep the delusion is going. Were the protestors in Times Square even real? It helps reset the trust we have given Elliot as a character and puts us at odds with him again. I don't think it falls flat as a character moment. Or you could goon it all up.
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Sep 30, 2015 04:08
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^^^ well said.fullroundaction posted:I actually really like that the finale didn't make an effort to show the scope of the fallout of the hack. It would have been too much with everything else going on, and they maintained the dizzyness of the situation by focusing tightly on Elliot's daze. Agreed. Unrelated, did you ever film a marble beerboyz finale? CloFan fucked around with this message at 04:14 on Sep 30, 2015 |
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Sep 30, 2015 04:09
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Stubs Ascott posted:The "twist" is using a cliche to more deeply explore the psyche of the main character. Since we, the audience are a character in his mind as well he acknowledges that we knew the whole time, which of course we did. It's not rocket science, it expands on the character, his paranoia, and makes you as a character question how deep the delusion is going. Were the protestors in Times Square even real? It helps reset the trust we have given Elliot as a character and puts us at odds with him again. I don't think it falls flat as a character moment. Or you could just kidnap Sam Esmail and beat it out of him. He doesn't look tough.
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Sep 30, 2015 04:11
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We watched our way through this over the course of about 2 weeks and I must say its been fantastic throughout. There are so many good plot lines going on, and so many questions set up for the next series I really can't wait to see what follows. Although it is early days, I wonder if the theme of the program is going to carry on the narrative of the characters starting to manifest what they stand against / their fears - Tyrell starting off appearing strong, broken by the end - Angela starting off sort of girl next door, now working for the company she despises and her character becoming more like "them" with how she treated the shop assistant etc. I wouldn't be surprised if it wasn't Gideon behind the door at the end - white knight sort of guy but has been suspicious of Elliot in the latter half of the season, has seen his entire lifes work destroyed by Elliot and is now out for revenge etc. But yes, SO MANY QUESTIONS: Why have they hired Angela? Who is behind the door? What is WhiteRose's intentions Where is Tyrell? What is Joanna's plan? What is going to happen to their world now they hack has happened? Gideon, Krista, DogMan etc - will they feature still in the story?
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Oct 1, 2015 15:34
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I always laugh when I see people say "x is derivative of 'Fight Club'", because Fight Club is itself derived from "William Wilson," the Edgar Allen Poe short story. Hah.
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Oct 1, 2015 15:56
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CloFan posted:Agreed. Unrelated, did you ever film a marble beerboyz finale? I shot it but never posted it because it wasn't very good. It's been nagging at me for almost a year to do another one so I can be done with the project. Going to try to get psyched up and go for it 
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Oct 2, 2015 02:02
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deptstoremook posted:I always laugh when I see people say "x is derivative of 'Fight Club'", because Fight Club is itself derived from "William Wilson," the Edgar Allen Poe short story. Hah. You're really surprised that people will remember and make reference to one of the most iconic movies from the past 15 years as opposed to a fairly obscure short story from 1839? 
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Oct 2, 2015 08:11
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Oh look another Gilgamesh clone. Fiction is so played out.
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Oct 2, 2015 14:28
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Fiction peaked when we started burying our dead with arrowheads, it's all been downhill from there.
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Oct 2, 2015 22:33
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Ugh moving media is so gauche, give me a bottle of white wine, a fireplace, and a nice clay tablet with some cuneiform on it any day of the week.
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Oct 2, 2015 22:46
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Kampfy Von Wafflehaus posted:You're really surprised that people will remember and make reference to one of the most iconic movies from the past 15 years as opposed to a fairly obscure short story from 1839? Who's surprised? I'm saying it's a bit  to act smart and say "this TV show is just a Fight Club clone" when Fight Club is equally indebted to another single piece of media.
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Oct 2, 2015 23:15
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Edgar Allan Poe posted:And then, when I had finished fighting William Wilson, I whirled around and looked in the mirror -- and it was none other my own face. And it spoke ... it may have been my own voice ... and it said, "With your feet on the air, and your head on the ground..." Some derivative works are a lot more clear about what they're copying than others. This show is conscious imitation, but as others have said, it's made something different and interesting in its own right.
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Oct 5, 2015 06:40
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In trying to reconcile Gideon's meeting with Tyrell to make sense of the Elliot = Tyrell conjecture, I'm starting to wonder if Gideon isn't also one of Elliot's personality fragments. A lot of the scenes of Elliot and Gideon together have the same kind of feel that Elliot's scenes with Tyrell or Mr Robot do, that of an internal debate as one side tries to convince or coerce the other of something. They're usually just one on one closed door conversations. No boss would let a suspicious employee just sit there at his terminal and straight up not reply when directly asked, "What are you doing at your terminal right now while everybody is in the conference room?" I'm gonna have to rewatch.
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Oct 12, 2015 22:36
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Try explaining the dinner party at Gideon's house.
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Oct 12, 2015 22:48
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We know Elliott has brain problems and is an unreliable narrator, but still we have no reason to believe anyone besides Mr. Robot is a figment of his imagination. In fact, there is too much evidence via character interactions that Gideon and Tyrell are real. If those two are only in Elliot's head then everyone is in Elliot's head because he's in a padded room imagining all of this.
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Oct 12, 2015 23:20
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We're going to find out in the end that all this time Elliot was hanging out at the arcade alone, talking to a bunch of imaginary friends. You know when Angela and Darlene were at ballet class? They were actually both Elliot in a leotard.
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Oct 12, 2015 23:23
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nooneofconsequence posted:Try explaining the dinner party at Gideon's house. Or the scene where Gideon's boyfriend reassures him that despite all AllSafe's failures, they remain bourgeois as gently caress.
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Oct 12, 2015 23:25
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Mameluke posted:Or the scene where Gideon's boyfriend reassures him that despite all AllSafe's failures, they remain bourgeois as gently caress. That's easy. Elliot is gay and that was actually his boyfriend. Although I think it's a slippery slope to say "X is just Elliot because unreliable narrator." because as others have said you could really apply that to any and every person in the show.
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Oct 13, 2015 02:00
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It's just Elliots all the way down
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Oct 13, 2015 03:00
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Elucidarius posted:That's easy. Elliot is gay and that was actually his boyfriend. It's more that I can't imagine any permutation of Elliot being distracted from how he just lost thirty people's livelihoods with breakfast. That scene paired weirdly well with Philip talking about how he's too rich to really care about the hack.
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Oct 13, 2015 04:43
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Shoren posted:We know Elliott has brain problems and is an unreliable narrator, but still we have no reason to believe anyone besides Mr. Robot is a figment of his imagination. In fact, there is too much evidence via character interactions that Gideon and Tyrell are real. If those two are only in Elliot's head then everyone is in Elliot's head because he's in a padded room imagining all of this. Steve Yun posted:We're going to find out in the end that all this time Elliot was hanging out at the arcade alone, talking to a bunch of imaginary friends.
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Oct 13, 2015 05:44
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Clearly Elliot is the same person as Price. For one, the complete lack of empathy is the same with both characters. Also, you can tell when Tyrell is desperate to get his job back and visits Elliot. What almost certainly happened is that he promised to let Tyrell back into E-Corp if he helps him do the hack. It is also obvious that Price is Elliot during the scenes with Angela. She is so shocked that she doesn't bring it up, but there are parallels between the way she acts around Elliot and the way she acts around Price. Lastly, in the first scene with Ron he states that he doesn't care about money. Why wouldn't he care about money you ask? Because he's the goddamned CEO of E-Corp and has a ton. You heard it here first. Also Cisco is an alternate persona of Mr. Robot. Since Mr. Robot is an alternate persona of Elliot, that means Elliot is also Cisco. Lastly, the dog that Elliot rescued is White Rose and Steve Jobs for reasons that should be obvious to everyone.
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Oct 14, 2015 04:40
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Elliot as Gideon may be a bit of a stretch, but I just started the rewatch and the very first shot is on Tyrell in silhouette. Elliot has to be Tyrell. I think Tyrell is the real person and Elliot is a vehicle. Until somebody convinces me otherwise.
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Oct 14, 2015 18:26
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yoyodyne posted:Lastly, the dog that Elliot rescued is White Rose and Steve Jobs for reasons that should be obvious to everyone. It's so pedestrian of you to even mention it
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Oct 14, 2015 20:03
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Odoyle posted:Elliot as Gideon may be a bit of a stretch, but I just started the rewatch and the very first shot is on Tyrell in silhouette. Elliot has to be Tyrell. I think Tyrell is the real person and Elliot is a vehicle. Until somebody convinces me otherwise. I think there is a ton of evidence this is not the case. I also feel like you will hand wave it away rather than Okhams razor that poo poo. The Secretary not recognizing Elliot is an obvious one. Elliot being able to speak a foreign language fluently with a native inflection would be another. Elliot needing to be physically at two jobs all day every day would be another. Reality would need to be so far from what we've been presented that the show wouldn't even be about what the show is currently about for that to be the case.
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Oct 14, 2015 23:33
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Odoyle posted:Elliot as Gideon may be a bit of a stretch, but I just started the rewatch and the very first shot is on Tyrell in silhouette. Elliot has to be Tyrell. I think Tyrell is the real person and Elliot is a vehicle. Until somebody convinces me otherwise. Elliot and Tyrell are the same, but they are not literally the same person.
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Oct 15, 2015 17:48
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Doesn't that play into one of the other major fakeouts, where Elliot thinks he's entangling himself with the 0.0001 percent of the world or whatever, and by the end of the season it turns out he met a failed CTO and a bunch of lawyers, and Philip hardly even cares about him.
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Oct 15, 2015 19:12
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Mameluke posted:Doesn't that play into one of the other major fakeouts, where Elliot thinks he's entangling himself with the 0.0001 percent of the world or whatever, and by the end of the season it turns out he met a failed CTO and a bunch of lawyers, and Philip hardly even cares about him. I think we figure that out by the third episode
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Oct 15, 2015 19:29
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Episode 5, 8 minutes in. One of the FSociety pose gets real upset when he finds out Elliot was talking to Tyrell. They are not the same person. Please let it die. (I haven't been obsessing over this, I'm just in the middle of a rewatch. Knowing Elliot and Darlene are siblings makes all the early episodes awesome by the way.) Edits: Episode 5 is really clever. While Elliot is on his withdraw induced hallucination, other people begin to acknowledge not just Mr. Robot, but the presence of multiple individuals when Elliot is in fact alone (22:00 into the episode). By the end of the episode, you're aware that most everything was a hallucination, but your brain will likely still credit the multiple person observations as evidence that Mr. Robot is real. Benson Cunningham fucked around with this message at 05:26 on Oct 30, 2015 |
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Oct 30, 2015 05:04
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Benson Cunningham posted:Episode 5, 8 minutes in. One of the FSociety pose gets real upset when he finds out Elliot was talking to Tyrell. Episode 5 was where I decided "gently caress this show". Yes, he's hallucinating but that episode took it to the extreme and also pointed out that you can't really trust anything shown in any episode so they can pull off whatever BS they want with magical "it was a hallucination, lol" cover ups for poo poo writing/plot. You saw someone reacting to someone else? Well, they're both hallucinations, gotcha! Well, that and the Fight Club mixed with 50 Shades of Grey mixed with blah blah BS.
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Oct 30, 2015 05:39
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RandomBlue posted:Episode 5 was where I decided "gently caress this show". Yes, he's hallucinating but that episode took it to the extreme and also pointed out that you can't really trust anything shown in any episode so they can pull off whatever BS they want with magical "it was a hallucination, lol" cover ups for poo poo writing/plot. You saw someone reacting to someone else? Well, they're both hallucinations, gotcha! Yeah, this wasn't a good show. They should have stuck with the techie stuff and the drug addiction and the social anxiety disorder, and stayed away from schitzo stuff.
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Oct 30, 2015 05:48
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enraged_camel posted:Yeah, this wasn't a good show. They should have stuck with the techie stuff and the drug addiction and the social anxiety disorder, and stayed away from schitzo stuff. Agreed for the most part. It's possible to do the schizo/hallucination stuff but there needs to be more than people checking lines of sight to realize hallucination is going on or isn't. Either that or nothing at all until the big reveal way down the line. The problem is that the big reveal works great in movies that are 90-120 minutes long or so but not for a whole series, so you really can't go with the stealth or semi-stealth hallucinations or you're basically just writing a live-action cartoon as any big impact story point can be rolled back magically by hallucinations every episode or 2 or 3. Then all you're left with is a story that isn't reliably going anywhere, so what is the point? That works in cartoons that use them because they're comedic cartoons and quite often now it's intentional satire.
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Oct 30, 2015 05:55
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You're really misrepresenting (and overthinking) the split-personality depiction. The idea that you can't trust literally anything they show because everything they show might be fake is completely overblowing the Elliot/Mr. Robot scenario. There are only two significant details to keep in mind: 1) Elliot and Mr. Robot are the same person; in scenes where they both appear and interact with other people together, it is actually the same person doing so, alternating between his personalities. 2) Elliot forgot that Darlene is his sister. That's it. That's literally it, as far as the "schizo/hallucination" stuff goes. We have only one single unreliable narrator and so, other than very specific events involving Elliot and Mr. Robot, we can trust that every other character is really doing everything that they're doing. There are no "magical" retcons or excuses involved. Of course the show will probably continue to introduce twists and turns to mess with viewer's expectations, make us question the things we've seen and taken for granted, but it won't be stuff like "Tyrell is really Krista" or "the dog was actually his fish" or any pointless nonsense like that. And I have no idea where this whole "the story isn't going anywhere" claim is coming from. The story has gone lots of places. It just seems like you're getting weirdly hung up about the split-personality conceit.
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Oct 30, 2015 06:20
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BrianWilly posted:You're really misrepresenting (and overthinking) the split-personality depiction. The idea that you can't trust literally anything they show because everything they show might be fake is completely overblowing the Elliot/Mr. Robot scenario. There are only two significant details to keep in mind: I never got to Darlene being his sister, as I pointed out episode 5 was my "gently caress this show." point and I'm guessing that was later than ep. 5 as I don't recall that at all. Glad you enjoy the show though, everyone likes different poo poo. Like 'How I Met Your Mother' and 'The Big Bang Theory', both shows I find repulsive but are/were extremely popular. As to why I bothered posting in the thread, I guess things like this: Steve Yun posted:We're going to find out in the end that all this time Elliot was hanging out at the arcade alone, talking to a bunch of imaginary friends. *shrug*
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Oct 30, 2015 06:36
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...I hate that I even have to ask, but you get that that's a joke, right? Like, they're poking fun at the schizophrenia situation. They're not saying that's how it actually is. Either way, I feel like you should actually watch the "big reveal" for going off on how lame and badly-done the big reveal is, but okay.
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Oct 30, 2015 06:43
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BrianWilly posted:...I hate that I even have to ask, but you get that that's a joke, right? Like, they're poking fun at the schizophrenia situation. They're not saying that's how it actually is. I get that it was the joke, but that the joke was even there to begin with is part of the problem. At least one of the other parts is the 50 shades of grey bullshit. Also, there is no "big reveal" to watch. There are (or will be) "big" reveals plural, most likely every season finale/premiere. Pass. The problem with betting your series/movie on twists is everyone gets tired of the loving twist and just expects it now.
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Oct 30, 2015 06:48
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I wouldn't say everyone expects the twists considering that you didn't even know about the sister twist until I just now told you, because you've watched about half the show. Certainly not everyone is tired of them, considering the reaction this show has received. Do you just hate BDSM or something? How is the "50 Shades of Grey bullshit" which appeared in a grand total of one episode such a problem? I mean, hey, watch the show or don't; it won't matter to me past the next couple minutes. My point stands that your conception of the "hallucinatory" nature of the show is overblown to the point that I had to check and make sure you didn't take someone's rhetorical joke about it seriously. Which makes sense, because you haven't seen the thing that you're complaining about.
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Oct 30, 2015 07:03
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BrianWilly posted:I wouldn't say everyone expects the twists considering that you didn't even know about the sister twist until I just now told you, because you've watched about half the show. Certainly not everyone is tired of them, considering the reaction this show has received. Everyone expects twists. EVERY ONE. It's been that way since shortly after The Sixth Sense came out. Try and keep up. Do I hate BDSM? No. Do I want sex in shows at random that aren't about sex? Not really. Real Sex, no problem. Hacker show obviously cribbing from popular movies, no thanks. I didn't see the sister twist because a) why spend effort on figuring out twists that could or could not be telegraphed to some degree and b) we're all (except you apparently) used to and tired of the twists.
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Oct 30, 2015 07:18
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