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pangstrom
Jan 25, 2003

Wedge Regret
Somebody with not-much to lose is going to step in, I suppose. It's less that nobody is acceptable and more that candidates fear one of the job responsibilities is to appease the Sun God and the only way he can be appeased is with blood of people with jobs like yours.

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bird food bathtub
Aug 9, 2003

College Slice

OAquinas posted:

They won't be happy until she commits Sudoku on stage.

Not exactly riveting television but I'd watch it. Some of them things are really hard.

Hieronymous Alloy
Jan 30, 2009


Why! Why!! Why must you refuse to accept that Dr. Hieronymous Alloy's Genetically Enhanced Cream Corn Is Superior to the Leading Brand on the Market!?!




Morbid Hound

pangstrom posted:

Somebody with not-much to lose is going to step in, I suppose. It's less that nobody is acceptable and more that candidates fear one of the job responsibilities is to appease the Sun God and the only way he can be appeased is with blood of people with jobs like yours.

I suspect nobody can do the job. If you're moderate enough for mainstream support you're disqualified from fringe support and vice versa. The Republicans have split into two parties and are refusing to admit it.

Venom Snake
Feb 19, 2014

by Nyc_Tattoo

pangstrom posted:

Somebody with not-much to lose is going to step in, I suppose. It's less that nobody is acceptable and more that candidates fear one of the job responsibilities is to appease the Sun God and the only way he can be appeased is with blood of people with jobs like yours.

This analogy isn't very apt considering it was an honor to be sacrificed to the sun god (guaranteed chance of heaven or reincarnation and whatnot) and in this case taking the speaker position is a guaranteed chance at hell and political damnation.

Push El Burrito
May 9, 2006

Soiled Meat

DemeaninDemon posted:

The decaying corpse of Ronald Reagan.

That west coast elitist tax hiker who granted amnesty to illegals?

Monkey Fracas
Sep 11, 2010

...but then you get to the end and a gorilla starts throwing barrels at you!
Grimey Drawer
Is John Boehner on suicide watch yet

can he escape the horror

pangstrom
Jan 25, 2003

Wedge Regret

Hieronymous Alloy posted:

I suspect nobody can do the job. If you're moderate enough for mainstream support you're disqualified from fringe support and vice versa. The Republicans have split into two parties and are refusing to admit it.
Oh I don't think they can, either, but I think somebody could step in and get the votes to fill the role in the first place.

Also not the first to say it obv. but I think the most likely alternative to the "somebody with not-much to lose" scenario is that Boehner gradually settles back in.

Fried Chicken
Jan 9, 2011

Don't fry me, I'm no chicken!

BI NOW GAY LATER posted:

Ron Fornier is such a shill.

"She didn't slit her wrists on the stage and ask for mercy, so I think its still going to be a troublesome issue."

Amazing how you knew exactly who I was thinking of when I wrote that :allears: he blocked me on Twitter after one (profanity free) tweet where I mentioned him, and I was quite pleased

Gin and Juche
Apr 3, 2008

The Highest Judge of Paradise
Shiki Eiki
YAMAXANADU

BUBBA GAY DUDLEY posted:

That west coast elitist tax hiker who granted amnesty to illegals?

Don't forget that he supplied arms to Iran and was pretty chummy with Saddam.

Fried Chicken
Jan 9, 2011

Don't fry me, I'm no chicken!

DemeaninDemon posted:

The decaying corpse of Ronald Reagan.

Everyone should read Raise The Gipper by John Barnes

Venom Snake
Feb 19, 2014

by Nyc_Tattoo

Monkey Fracas posted:

Is John Boehner on suicide watch yet

can he escape the horror

They would just put his corpse back in the speaker seat ala the Golden Throne.

Fried Chicken
Jan 9, 2011

Don't fry me, I'm no chicken!

Thump! posted:

This thread is SA's version of the GOP. Just ripping itself apart over petty bullshit.

Then let us put aside our differences and come together to hate this: https://liberty.me

For just $5 a month you too can be a member of the libertarian community ... In the cloud!

Islam is the Lite Rock FM
Jul 27, 2007

by exmarx

Gravel Gravy posted:

Don't forget that he supplied arms to Iran and was pretty chummy with Saddam.

Stop using facts.

pangstrom
Jan 25, 2003

Wedge Regret

Venom Snake posted:

This analogy isn't very apt considering it was an honor to be sacrificed to the sun god (guaranteed chance of heaven or reincarnation and whatnot) and in this case taking the speaker position is a guaranteed chance at hell and political damnation.
Granted, maybe ritual murder at a Roman triumph or something like that would be better.

showbiz_liz
Jun 2, 2008
http://talkingpointsmemo.com/dc/ornstein-gop-meltdown

quote:

The modern Republican Party had been careening toward this kind of wheels-off-the-track moment for a long time [...] But you knew that already if you read the 2012 book "It's Even Worse Than It Looks: How the American Constitutional System Collided With the New Politics of Extremism." While not predicting the current GOP leadership crisis, it sounded the alarm that the party was on a dangerous course and taking the country with it. The book argued that responsible governance had been severely crippled by the Republican Party's push to the right and its adoption of take-no-prisoners politicking.

TPM asked one of the co-authors if he was feeling any vindication.

“drat straight I do,” Norman Ornstein, a congressional scholar at the American Enterprise Institute, said in an interview with TPM late last week. “But I would have rather been proven wrong -- honest to God -- because we're talking about the loving country that is at stake here.”

drat Norman, tell us how you REALLY feel

pathetic little tramp
Dec 12, 2005

by Hillary Clinton's assassins
Fallen Rib
So Planned Parenthood has announced they'll stop taking the minor recompense to cover shipping and packing for fetal tissue donations. Not sure if I like the optics on that, I'm sure the Catholic cavemen are going to be crowing about this as a huge victory and it's going to open up even more investigations.

Coheed and Camembert
Feb 11, 2012

Hieronymous Alloy posted:

The Republicans have split into two parties and are refusing to admit it.

No doubt. Hell, in the last kiddy table debate, Jindal said the true conservatives should split because Republicans just aren't conservative enough.

meristem
Oct 2, 2010
I HAVE THE ETIQUETTE OF STIFF AND THE PERSONALITY OF A GIANT CUNT.

pangstrom posted:

Somebody with not-much to lose is going to step in, I suppose. It's less that nobody is acceptable and more that candidates fear one of the job responsibilities is to appease the Sun God and the only way he can be appeased is with blood of people with jobs like yours.

Paging Sol Invictus?

A Winner is Jew
Feb 14, 2008

by exmarx

DemeaninDemon posted:

The decaying corpse of Ronald Reagan.

Did the team that was tasked with staking him through the heart not succeed? :ohdear:



or is it,

That is not dead which can eternal lie, and with strange aeons even death may die. :cthulhu:

Schizotek
Nov 8, 2011

I say, hey, listen to me!
Stay sane inside insanity!!!

Monkey Fracas posted:

Is John Boehner on suicide watch yet

can he escape the horror

Somebody rewrite "I Have No Mouth And I Must Scream" as a political thriller starring Boehner as Ted. Who could fill in for the other 4? AM is clearly the Raiders of the Tortilla Coast.

Flip Yr Wig
Feb 21, 2007

Oh please do go on
Fun Shoe

pathetic little tramp posted:

So Planned Parenthood has announced they'll stop taking the minor recompense to cover shipping and packing for fetal tissue donations. Not sure if I like the optics on that, I'm sure the Catholic cavemen are going to be crowing about this as a huge victory and it's going to open up even more investigations.

Yeah, the conservatives don't actually care about the substance of the issue, so ceding ground won't make them shut up at all. It only vindicates them and encourages more bullshit. Bad move. The cons will interpret it as a tacit admission that PP was selling baby parts after all, so they must be hiding something even worse.

A Winner is Jew
Feb 14, 2008

by exmarx

Schizotek posted:

Somebody rewrite "I Have No Mouth And I Must Scream" as a political thriller starring Boehner as Ted. Who could fill in for the other 4? AM is clearly the Raiders of the Tortilla Coast.

Paul Ryan and Kevin McCarthy would be 2 of the four, and we can't include Romney since AM might learn the meaning of friendship and change the whole story.

Devor
Nov 30, 2004
Lurking more.

Flip Yr Wig posted:

Yeah, the conservatives don't actually care about the substance of the issue, so ceding ground won't make them shut up at all. It only vindicates them and encourages more bullshit. Bad move. The cons will interpret it as a tacit admission that PP was selling baby parts after all, so they must be hiding something even worse.

If they are spending $1M to prove they aren't being nefarious to recover $200k in actual costs, then it makes perfect sense to stop trying to recover it.

The victory is that conservatives haven't stopped the research.

Kro-Bar
Jul 24, 2004
USPOL May

Fried Chicken posted:

Then let us put aside our differences and come together to hate this: https://liberty.me

For just $5 a month you too can be a member of the libertarian community ... In the cloud!

Is this...Conservative Twitter?

CommieGIR
Aug 22, 2006

The blue glow is a feature, not a bug


Pillbug

Kro-Bar posted:

Is this...Conservative Twitter?

It was bad (and hilarious) enough when they did the Conservative Facebook.

This is both horrible and hilarious. Dark comedy.

Trabisnikof
Dec 24, 2005

CommieGIR posted:

It was bad (and hilarious) enough when they did the Conservative Facebook.

This is both horrible and hilarious. Dark comedy.

is social justice just a strawman? concerned libertarians want to know!

quote:

Often, my left-libertarian counterparts state that their attempts to politely discuss, for instance, “social justice” (and other leftist concepts) with me inevitably prove fruitless.
That is because as near as I can tell it’s impossible to extract an actual proposition from any expression of “social justice”, “exploitation”, “domination”, etc without it actually *being* a straw man, because terms like “social justice” and others take on whatever meaning is necessary for the question at hand – certainly nobody seems willing to commit to a definition of the concept and then stick to it, which is kind of problematic for a theory like those.
In any case, if my criticisms are a flawed, I’m clearly struggling in vain to discover an actual proposition of those theories and I’ve gotten it wrong (every single time, ever) in which case instead of “lol straw man” they might try, “Oh but you seem to have misunderstood the claims of the theory”, and then tell me what the hell they actually are supposed to be. Occasionally people have tried to do me this favor, which I appreciate, but always, *always* couched in ambiguous terms whose meanings change throughout the conversation such that I have still, in all my life, never been told in useful terms just what these concepts mean.
Maybe this sounds like I’m not optimistic about ever having this problem solved, which is true. And maybe that makes it sounds like I’m disingenuous about wanting to be filled in, which is not true – I want to understand these concepts just like I want to meet an extra terrestrial life form, which I think probably doesn’t exist, so you’re not going to catch me acting like I’m trying to achieve either goal.
So if a left libertarian wants to try to tell me what these theories actually say and mean in words they’re prepared to define, I’m all ears. I just don’t think any of them will because I don’t think any of them can.

McAlister
Nov 3, 2002

by exmarx

Fried Chicken posted:

Clinton hasn't release a criminal justice position paper yet while Bernie has, but don't let that get in the way of claiming she has firm positions on it and he doesn't

Clinton had given speeches focusing on the topic. Since not personally seeing it doesn't mean it doesn't exist I can't say betnie hasn't, just that what I have seen of him speaking on the subject were terrible positions.

Something Else posted:

In that video, he says police departments should have SWAT-caliber weaponry to combat drug dealers, presumably he means people who can fight back with automatic weapons and the like. He also says the equipment should not be used against protestors as it was in Ferguson. He supports cutting the budgets for that kind of equipment and putting the money into a jobs program instead.

It's part of his platform, under Addressing Physical Violence: https://berniesanders.com/issues/racial-justice/

Exactly.

He said it's ok for them to have the weapons, just they shouldn't use them that way,

I say they shouldn't have the weapons.

Clinton also says they shouldn't have the weapons.

This is a clear policy difference. We all agree they shouldn't use the weapons the way they are using them. Just some of us also think that they shouldn't even have them in the first place as having them is the temptation to mis-use them.

FAUXTON
Jun 2, 2005

spero che tu stia bene

Gravel Gravy posted:

Don't forget that he supplied arms to Iran and was pretty chummy with Saddam.

Also pushed for gun control for the same reason a lot of people these days are against it.

BI NOW GAY LATER
Jan 17, 2008

So people stop asking, the "Bi" in my username is a reference to my love for the two greatest collegiate sports programs in the world, the Virginia Tech Hokies and the Marshall Thundering Herd.

Fried Chicken posted:

Amazing how you knew exactly who I was thinking of when I wrote that :allears: he blocked me on Twitter after one (profanity free) tweet where I mentioned him, and I was quite pleased

Yeah, like I can respect Bob Costas, but gently caress Ron. He's an rear end in a top hat shill.

CommieGIR
Aug 22, 2006

The blue glow is a feature, not a bug


Pillbug

Trabisnikof posted:

is social justice just a strawman? concerned libertarians want to know!

Libertarians can show concern? I thought it was purposefully being misleading to hide their vampire tendencies

Islam is the Lite Rock FM
Jul 27, 2007

by exmarx

A Winner is Jew posted:

Did the team that was tasked with staking him through the heart not succeed? :ohdear:



or is it,

That is not dead which can eternal lie, and with strange aeons even death may die. :cthulhu:

Hard to jam a spike into something that didn't exist in the first place.

Or was that his lucid thought? I forget.

sullat
Jan 9, 2012

Venom Snake posted:

This analogy isn't very apt considering it was an honor to be sacrificed to the sun god (guaranteed chance of heaven or reincarnation and whatnot) and in this case taking the speaker position is a guaranteed chance at hell and political damnation.

Might be good on a resume if you don't care about such things? Also, why isn't Issa making aplay for it? These kind of power plays are right up his alley.

greatn
Nov 15, 2006

by Lowtax

McAlister posted:

Clinton had given speeches focusing on the topic. Since not personally seeing it doesn't mean it doesn't exist I can't say betnie hasn't, just that what I have seen of him speaking on the subject were terrible positions.


Exactly.

He said it's ok for them to have the weapons, just they shouldn't use them that way,

I say they shouldn't have the weapons.

Clinton also says they shouldn't have the weapons.

This is a clear policy difference. We all agree they shouldn't use the weapons the way they are using them. Just some of us also think that they shouldn't even have them in the first place as having them is the temptation to mis-use them.

Will it appears his position is they should have at least less of those weapons if he wants to cut the budget for them.

Rhesus Pieces
Jun 27, 2005


He has every right to be pissed. He and Mann were respected beltway sages until they finally called out the GOP back in 2012 for being insane and unreasonable, at which point they became radioactive to the Sunday talk shows.

You have to be willing to "play the game" and handicap the national debate enough to make the right and left look equally balanced when they're anything but. If you admit that this isn't the case, you're "biased" and aren't allowed to be heard or taken seriously.

After all, if the press actually admits that one side of the political aisle is completely unhinged and should not be elected, the horse race might become uncompetitive, and the networks couldn't charge as much as they do for advertising space.

ComradeCosmobot
Dec 4, 2004

USPOL July
I usually try to keep boring horse race stuff out of here, in deference to RSF, but I couldn't pass up passing along the fact that the wonderful tabloid-worthy Trump/Jeb slap fight continues... :munch:

greatn
Nov 15, 2006

by Lowtax
They just announced Trump will host SNL.

A Winner is Jew
Feb 14, 2008

by exmarx

greatn posted:

They just announced Trump will host SNL.

If only SNL was still funny. :(

sexpig by night
Sep 8, 2011

by Azathoth

ComradeCosmobot posted:

I usually try to keep boring horse race stuff out of here, in deference to RSF, but I couldn't pass up passing along the fact that the wonderful tabloid-worthy Donald "Stay and we keep the oil" Trump/Jeb slap fight continues... :munch:

These people are loving idiots

ComradeCosmobot
Dec 4, 2004

USPOL July
Sheldon Adelson has made his decision.

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William Bear
Oct 26, 2012

"That's what they all say!"

Similar strong language from conservative NYTimes columnist David Brooks:

quote:

The Republicans’ Incompetence Caucus
OCT. 13, 2015
David Brooks

The House Republican caucus is close to ungovernable these days. How did this situation come about?

This was not just the work of the Freedom Caucus or Ted Cruz or one month’s activity. The Republican Party’s capacity for effective self-governance degraded slowly, over the course of a long chain of rhetorical excesses, mental corruptions and philosophical betrayals. Basically, the party abandoned traditional conservatism for right-wing radicalism. Republicans came to see themselves as insurgents and revolutionaries, and every revolution tends toward anarchy and ends up devouring its own.

By traditional definitions, conservatism stands for intellectual humility, a belief in steady, incremental change, a preference for reform rather than revolution, a respect for hierarchy, precedence, balance and order, and a tone of voice that is prudent, measured and responsible. Conservatives of this disposition can be dull, but they know how to nurture and run institutions. They also see the nation as one organic whole. Citizens may fall into different classes and political factions, but they are still joined by chains of affection that command ultimate loyalty and love.

All of this has been overturned in dangerous parts of the Republican Party. Over the past 30 years, or at least since Rush Limbaugh came on the scene, the Republican rhetorical tone has grown ever more bombastic, hyperbolic and imbalanced. Public figures are prisoners of their own prose styles, and Republicans from Newt Gingrich through Ben Carson have become addicted to a crisis mentality. Civilization was always on the brink of collapse. Every setback, like the passage of Obamacare, became the ruination of the republic. Comparisons to Nazi Germany became a staple.

This produced a radical mind-set. Conservatives started talking about the Reagan “revolution,” the Gingrich “revolution.” Among people too ill educated to understand the different spheres, political practitioners adopted the mental habits of the entrepreneur. Everything had to be transformational and disruptive. Hierarchy and authority were equated with injustice. Self-expression became more valued than self-restraint and coalition building. A contempt for politics infested the Republican mind.

Politics is the process of making decisions amid diverse opinions. It involves conversation, calm deliberation, self-discipline, the capacity to listen to other points of view and balance valid but competing ideas and interests.

But this new Republican faction regards the messy business of politics as soiled and impure. Compromise is corruption. Inconvenient facts are ignored. Countrymen with different views are regarded as aliens. Political identity became a sort of ethnic identity, and any compromise was regarded as a blood betrayal.

A weird contradictory mentality replaced traditional conservatism. Republican radicals have contempt for politics, but they still believe that transformational political change can rescue the nation. Republicans developed a contempt for Washington and government, but they elected leaders who made the most lavish promises imaginable. Government would be reduced by a quarter! Shutdowns would happen! The nation would be saved by transformational change! As Steven Bilakovics writes in his book “Democracy Without Politics,” “even as we expect ever less of democracy we apparently expect ever more from democracy.”

This anti-political political ethos produced elected leaders of jaw-dropping incompetence. Running a government is a craft, like carpentry. But the new Republican officials did not believe in government and so did not respect its traditions, its disciplines and its craftsmanship. They do not accept the hierarchical structures of authority inherent in political activity.

In his masterwork, “Politics as a Vocation,” Max Weber argues that the pre-eminent qualities for a politician are passion, a feeling of responsibility and a sense of proportion. A politician needs warm passion to impel action but a cool sense of responsibility and proportion to make careful decisions in a complex landscape.

If a politician lacks the quality of detachment — the ability to let the difficult facts of reality work their way into the mind — then, Weber argues, the politician ends up striving for the “boastful but entirely empty gesture.” His work “leads nowhere and is senseless.”

Welcome to Ted Cruz, Donald Trump and the Freedom Caucus.

Really, have we ever seen bumbling on this scale, people at once so cynical and so naďve, so willfully ignorant in using levers of power to produce some tangible if incremental good? These insurgents can’t even acknowledge democracy’s legitimacy — if you can’t persuade a majority of your colleagues, maybe you should accept their position. You might be wrong!

People who don’t accept democracy will be bad at conversation. They won’t respect tradition, institutions or precedent. These figures are masters at destruction but incompetent at construction.

These insurgents are incompetent at governing and unwilling to be governed. But they are not a spontaneous growth. It took a thousand small betrayals of conservatism to get to the dysfunction we see all around.
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/10/13/opinion/the-republicans-incompetence-caucus.html?_r=1

Even if this trouble finding a new Speaker is the last straw that leads to the few remaining serious conservative intellectuals leaving the party or criticizing the roots of its failure (See also, the recent Ben Bernake talk about how he stopped considering himself a Republican after constant confrontation with demonstrably false and damaging economic policy during his tenure as Fed Chairman), I can't see what effect it has. How many Republican voters will be swayed by this?

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