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Sending Quiet out was just about as stupid knowing how Big Boss accidentally seduced Eva (and Ocelot) during Snake Eater. Also it's kind of ironic that Skull Face fails to kill Venom at every opportunity because had he been super ruthless and murdered him he would've just been killing Big Boss's body double prepared for this exact sort of eventuality. Skull Face is so incompetent he fails to even trigger Big Boss's backup plan. In the end the double gets through completely unscathed and Big Boss has to make up some poo poo for him to do because nobody actually bothered to pose a serious threat to Venom's life. zedprime posted:But I think Skull Face is characteristically an idiot, whether that was intended by the writing or not. He basically sees Snake as a toady of Zero's to symbolically chump on his way to demolishing Cipher.
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Oct 13, 2015 20:08
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Thinking about the story line in Metal Gear games makes my brain hurt because there is always this one huge master conspiracy that needs everything to go exactly a certain way and regardless of what happens, someone is like "yes, I am in fact a quadruple agent and everything has gone according to our shadowy plans!" Basically, everything is so complicated and preposterous that it all becomes phenomenally dumb. I mean, a dude gets possessed by an arm. I like to think that after the Boss threw Naked Snake off the bridge in Snake Eater, he went into a coma and the rest of the series after that point was just his insane hallucination of a fever dream.
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Oct 13, 2015 20:17
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Gammatron 64 posted:Thinking about the story line in Metal Gear games makes my brain hurt because there is always this one huge master conspiracy that needs everything to go exactly a certain way and regardless of what happens, someone is like "yes, I am in fact a quadruple agent and everything has gone according to our shadowy plans!" Basically, everything is so complicated and preposterous that it all becomes phenomenally dumb. I think you mean "everything is so complicated and preposterous that it all becomes hilarious" I don't know how you could play a single entry in to the MGS franchise and think that the story is somehow serious or realistic. MGS1 is probably the least insane, but Psycho Mantis should tip you off exactly how cheesy the game is.
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Oct 13, 2015 20:21
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Snak posted:I think you mean "everything is so complicated and preposterous that it all becomes hilarious" Oh yeah, I don't think they're meant to be taken seriously at all. I think they're pretty much a spoof of the spy genre and they kind of revel in how ridiculous they are. Although some would argue that the series is completely tone deaf and goes from poopy fart jokes to really dark material.
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Oct 13, 2015 20:30
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Gammatron 64 posted:Oh yeah, I don't think they're meant to be taken seriously at all. I think they're pretty much a spoof of the spy genre and they kind of revel in how ridiculous they are. I totally get that argument, however, after reflection, I would argue that juxtiposing poopy fart jokes with really dark material is the tone Metal Gear Solid. It's not for everyone, but people who want everything to fit in a nice little genre/tone category really need to loosen up.
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Oct 13, 2015 20:35
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It is possible for something to be goofy and serious at the same time, it's the foundation of the best camp. That's why Big Boss can fight bee-man and Ocelot in the jungles of Russia and still give you genuine feels when he has to kill the Boss
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Oct 13, 2015 20:35
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I think there definitely are parts that are meant to be taken seriously, and they juxtapose these dramatic segments with men making GBS threads their pants and walking robots with dick cannons. How can you play the last hour of MGS3 and still think there aren't supposed to be serious and somber segments on these games?
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Oct 13, 2015 20:37
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Snak posted:In the other thread I posted some examples of dialog that could really spice up the Skulls fights. Skulls talking or someone else? I missed that post.
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Oct 13, 2015 20:37
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notZaar posted:I think there definitely are parts that are meant to be taken seriously, and they juxtapose these dramatic segments with men making GBS threads their pants and walking robots with dick cannons. How can you play the last hour of MGS3 and still think there aren't supposed to be serious and somber segments on these games? I don't think anyone said that?
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Oct 13, 2015 20:38
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A lot of excellent films can juxtaposition comedy and serious material, sometimes in incongruous ways. it doesn't always work but when it does work it has an impact on people. Terminator 2 features a character almost being raped, tons of murder and excessive violence and it also features goofy jokes and catchphrases and ends with a sad robot man giving a thumbs up as he is melted which none the less has an emotional impact on people.
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Oct 13, 2015 20:38
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Snak posted:I don't think anyone said that? Yeah he did read Gammatronnes post.
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Oct 13, 2015 20:41
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Speedball posted:Skulls talking or someone else? I missed that post. Snak posted:Like, if the Skulls had walks around saying dumb, made-up trivia it would have been better...
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Oct 13, 2015 20:41
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I don't know why they didn't just go with another gimmick special ops team. The Skull fights are really boring and samey as well as being devoid of character, even the BB squad were more entertainingSnak posted:I was thinking about how most boss fights in the MGS franchise have the villains spouting catchphrases and generally having insane dialog. Literally all of the bosses in MGSV are silent before, during, and after their fights. These are good though
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Oct 13, 2015 20:45
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MGSV feels like a different director doing their own take on somebody else's series. Characters from the other games are brought in to only serve as plot convenience and the storytelling is a major departure from the rest of the series. Its like Kubrick adapting The Shining to tell his own version of the story.
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Oct 13, 2015 20:48
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I found the Skull fights to be okay mechanically. I enjoyed fighting them when I had a medium amount of gear. It was really rough when I first encountered them and it's really easy with anti-material rifles. I don't like Volgin and the Skulls are such the same type of "slow-rear end zombie character with powerful projectile lumbers around" and that's 90% of the boss fights. Other mgs games had a lot of variety. Fast bosses, tanky (literally) bosses, bosses with different gimmicks. Here you have Quiet which is a pretty good sniper fight. Then you ave Volgin, which is a meh environmental fight, barely a boss fight. The Skulls are really same except for the sniper ones, but we already had a sniper fight... Sahelanthropus was pretty great. I would have loved to fight it again in a different area.
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Oct 13, 2015 20:51
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Nakar posted:Sending Quiet out was just about as stupid knowing how Big Boss accidentally seduced Eva (and Ocelot) during Snake Eater.
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Oct 13, 2015 21:00
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Broseph Brostar posted:MGSV feels like a different director doing their own take on somebody else's series. Characters from the other games are brought in to only serve as plot convenience and the storytelling is a major departure from the rest of the series. I think it's more comparable to comparing Kubrick's Fear & Desire to Paths of Glory and then finally to Full Metal Jacket. Like they're all clearly war films by made the same director, but made in very different points in Kubrick's career, and while there's thematic connections between them we can see major stylistic and structural narrative changes across them as well. MGSV is entirely like previous MGS games thematically, but Kojima's presentation in his custscenes is more visual oriented now. Raxivace fucked around with this message at 21:09 on Oct 13, 2015 |
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Oct 13, 2015 21:07
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I don't mind the lack of a cobra/FOXHOUND squad of bosses, I was more disappointed with the missing final boss. With all the spoilers about Venom being a fake big boss, I thought the final boss was going to be Venom and you'd have to put him down as the real Big Boss. I was imagining the Boss fight from mgs3, but with the difficulty scaling of Zeke from PW, depending on how much research you did.
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Oct 13, 2015 21:10
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No, imagine that the final fight is as Venom against the Real Big Boss. It's impossibly hard, and every time you lose, the credits roll. When you finally kill the real Big Boss, it just says, Time Paradox: Retry? You have to die. The real ending is that you lose.
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Oct 13, 2015 21:14
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Snak posted:No, imagine that the final fight is as Venom against the Real Big Boss. It's impossibly hard, and every time you lose, the credits roll. When you finally kill the real Big Boss, it just says, Time Paradox: Retry? Buahhh. Whaa?? I'm too high for this poo poo.
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Oct 13, 2015 21:15
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It would really hammer home how Venom is like The Boss in this situation.
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Oct 13, 2015 21:18
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Snak posted:I totally get that argument, however, after reflection, I would argue that juxtiposing poopy fart jokes with really dark material is the tone Metal Gear Solid. It's not for everyone, but people who want everything to fit in a nice little genre/tone category really need to loosen up.  I enjoy the games a lot, but they totally are NOT for everybody. I'd say they're pretty niche and borderline surreal, but are often pretty clever in their insanity.I used to hate MGS2 when it came out when I was in high school, but I just played through all the games again before I got to MGSV and I can finally understand and appreciate it. I watched this scene for a second time 15 years later and my mouth was floored: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eKl6WjfDqYA It flew over my head when I was 13 but now, holy crap.
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Oct 13, 2015 21:28
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 Whoa Big Boss I know it's the 80's but that kind of language is not ok.
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Oct 13, 2015 21:30
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Nakar posted:Sending Quiet out was just about as stupid knowing how Big Boss accidentally seduced Eva (and Ocelot) during Snake Eater. Other than the fact that Kaz and Venom oppose Skull Face's plan on ethical grounds immediately after learning of it....
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Oct 13, 2015 21:33
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Gammatron 64 posted:
The patriots were so cool before MGS3, drat
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Oct 13, 2015 21:59
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Nanomashoes posted:Other than the fact that Kaz and Venom oppose Skull Face's plan on ethical grounds immediately after learning of it....
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Oct 13, 2015 22:06
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Nanomashoes posted:
OUTRAGE! he should resign from his post at zanzibar land at once and go gently caress himself! #biggate #bigotboss #hedeservestobesetonfire
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Oct 13, 2015 22:34
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Vikar Jerome posted:#bigotboss lol
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Oct 13, 2015 22:41
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Here's a pretty funny parody of the ending that I found: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RKz8k4b5BFg
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Oct 14, 2015 15:33
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That was a good game. And did Kojima seriously say that it's not Metal Gear Solid 5, it's actually Metal Gear Solid V? Because that makes way more sense to me, I kind of knew about the twist when I started kept expecting it to be Chico actually and I figured that out in like ten minutes. It's a great mixup too because even their pre-release stuff calls it "MGS five". Ground Zeroes as a chapter is the ground zero to every single thing that happens in TPP, the whole thing is the story of V, Venom Snake.
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Oct 15, 2015 03:04
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gently caress why didn't I think about it being Chico, that would be a great twist even if it made no sense
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Oct 15, 2015 03:10
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That reminds me about the ridiculous speculation before the game's release about Quiet being Chico, grown up and trans. 
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Oct 15, 2015 03:18
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It would be an amazing con if this isn't the 5th numbered game and is instead called "V" similar to "Peace Walker." And then to get the true MGS5 you have to go to Japan to find the pachinko machines they used the rights to Big Boss on. Hell, I'd play a MGS pachinko machine if they have Kiefer say "kept you waiting" and "you're pretty good" whenever you start up or win some tokens.
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Oct 15, 2015 04:45
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Dewgy posted:That was a good game. This is from an interview in 2013: quote:“Up until Metal Gear Solid 1 through 4, of course, we used regular Arabic numerals. But since then, the west has really caught up. And I think in many ways, we’re threatened by games from the west. There’s a lot of competition out there. So we really wanted to reinvent ourselves with this game, really invent the series. So shifting over from ‘5’ to ‘V’ represents our will for victory—’V’ stands for ‘Victory.’ And that’s what we want to accomplish with this game, kind of take back our leadership and stride for victory.” Also: quote:“Last Metal Gear“ Party Boat fucked around with this message at 07:50 on Oct 15, 2015 |
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Oct 15, 2015 07:47
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Shoren posted:It would be an amazing con if this isn't the 5th numbered game and is instead called "V" similar to "Peace Walker." And then to get the true MGS5 you have to go to Japan to find the pachinko machines they used the rights to Big Boss on. Hell, I'd play a MGS pachinko machine if they have Kiefer say "kept you waiting" and "you're pretty good" whenever you start up or win some tokens. This is the world we live in, except the difference between the purposefully ambiguous title MSGV and MGS5 is lost Konami and the pachinkos will be nostalgia mining existing games, so it doesn't really matter. I mean, the interview above is cool and all, but I can't take anything Kojima Productions say about a MGS before release at face value. The V for Victory thing and bit about Roman numerals fitting the West better could just as well be something they came up with so the Venom twist wouldn't be even more obvious than it already is. Attack on Princess fucked around with this message at 08:07 on Oct 15, 2015 |
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Oct 15, 2015 08:04
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Party Boat posted:This is from an interview in 2013: Haha, it's like he made a wish on a monkey's paw.
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Oct 15, 2015 14:40
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Before playing this, I would have been wary of letting another team take over, but now I dunno.... How much input does Kojima have? I know he's the final word and everything but does he focus on directing cutscenes and writing plot or does he also help design the gameplay? Cause honestly if it's just plot poo poo then I'd be fine with someone else at the helm. Apart from a few moments, I don't really feel much Kojima influence in Phantom Pain. Conversely, Ground Zeroes did feel comfortably Kojima to me. I dunno, I know I'm not being very specific here but I'm sure someone else knows what I mean
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Oct 15, 2015 15:26
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I think it's part being written into a corner and part the nature of the game itself that this feels distinctly lacking in Kojima's touches. Besides the long periods of exposition, every MGS game has been stylistically distinct so you can't say that Kojima has a consistent style, but MGSV is still a big departure from the rest. Honestly I would still play another MGS game that was part filling in Big Boss' actions leading up to Outer Heaven and finally playing as Solid Snake in a remake of MG1, even if Kojima wasn't involved. Remaking MG1 & 2 using the current Fox Engine wouldn't necessarily require Kojima and would still be fun as hell. It would be nice to have a big mission in a close-quarters environment because I didn't get that feeling of tension and close calls in MGSV due to the open world.
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Oct 15, 2015 15:39
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just finished this and wow the ending twist is just batshit insane, I love it. I just liked the theme of how "this is meant to be You. you helped create the Legend. You, the player." reminded me how the ending of MGS2 seemed to be talking to the player as well about imparting values through poo poo like even MGS games, and even then it sounded like that was going to be the last Kojima game. The amount of unfinished poo poo, ranging from disappointing (cutscenes, fate of eli/salanthropous) to hilarious ("Battle Gear is ready to deploy.....lol or not") still weighs on me though. I was amused at how hard they push for Zero to be less of a bastard--Skullface is made to be the jaded bitter fucker while Zero was actually in on the whole scheme from the beginning. It's such a WEIRD loving game. The majority of poo poo you learn is through espionage cassette tapes. I can't think of any game that does the kind of oddball narrative and emergent gameplay this one does. I'm pretty sure Witcher 3 was a better overall experience for me but this is a safe second for me so far. I was so hoping you'd get one last stinger, like in MGS4 with its credits stopping at Big Boss; something similar should have happened where the actor credits pause at "Solid Snake: David Hayter" and we get a quick glimpse of young Snake ready to go through with the Intrude mission. If this was really the last game then it would have made sense to close the loop with the introduction of the pivotal player from here on out.
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Oct 15, 2015 15:55
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MinibarMatchman posted:just finished this and wow the ending twist is just batshit insane, I love it. I just liked the theme of how "this is meant to be You. you helped create the Legend. You, the player." reminded me how the ending of MGS2 seemed to be talking to the player as well about imparting values through poo poo like even MGS games, and even then it sounded like that was going to be the last Kojima game. It kinda did that. The final scene is just before the battle between snake and venom.
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Oct 15, 2015 16:12
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