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Zeroisanumber posted:How do you think he bought his living arrangement in Russia? Do you really think that Vlad Putin helped him out because he has a soft spot for persecuted noble idealists? It is in Putin's best interest to make it known to would be "whistleblowers" that revealing a bunch of classified information to the world (or preferably just Russia) gets you a comfy if potentially boring life in Russia. Does Snowden legitimately want back to the US? I interpreted his actions as trying to stay in the news but considering what he did he may be dumb enough to think that he's not permanently exiled himself.
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Oct 14, 2015 15:56
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negativeneil posted:I want a woman President, too. I just want that candidate to not be a member of a political dynasty and beholden to Finance industry. Hillary couldn't even stand on stage last night and say "yes, I believe we should break up the big banks." This is the difference between liking the idea in the abstract and actually seeing it as a major achievement that has been fought long and hard for. It means something to you, but not a lot. (Some of that may be legit burnout from symbolic and social victories without substantial leftward movement on policy as well, to be fair). Granted, that shouldn't sway your vote, but you should recognize its importance. Even Pat Robertson teared up with pride seeing Obama elected, despite representing all the forces aligned against against an actual black man being elected President.
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Oct 14, 2015 15:56
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Mr. Nice! posted:His actions in revealing a program that had been publicly approved by congress years earlier? The NSA has been spying on its own citizens since the patriot act and Snowden didn't particularly reveal anything new. He isn't a hero. the extent of the program and what it was doing had not entered the american consciousness until his leaks, and the people who knew full well about it all strove to make sure the american public remained in the dark about it. i don't know or care if he's a hero, his actions were a net positive for the american public
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Oct 14, 2015 15:57
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Mr. Nice! posted:His actions in revealing a program that had been publicly approved by congress years earlier? The NSA has been spying on its own citizens since the patriot act and Snowden didn't particularly reveal anything new. He isn't a hero. Yeah; Bernie had a good response to that question. It put Hillary and Webb on the extreme right, and Chafee on the extreme left.
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Oct 14, 2015 15:57
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Chafee was awful but it's okay because it was his first debate. Webb will personally murder America's enemies. O'Malley was that creepy guy who tries so hard to really care about other people's suffering but just seems insincere while doing it. Sanders was great on the issues that he makes his living on, but suffered everywhere else. He comes off as more of a limited-issue candidate and the yelling didn't fit the debate. Clinton was great in basically everything except Wall Street because it's hard to hide the fact she's pretty much in bed with them. At the end, it just solidified that Clinton will be the nominee. She debated circles around everyone else and that's necessary to live through the General Election debates. She is also the most well-rounded of the bunch that also didn't come off as an idiot/warlike.
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Oct 14, 2015 15:58
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hobbesmaster posted:It is in Putin's best interest to make it known to would be "whistleblowers" that revealing a bunch of classified information to the world (or preferably just Russia) gets you a comfy if potentially boring life in Russia. Snowden realizes that he's just a bargaining chip for Putin and will be sold out to the US whenever it's convenient for Russia. That being the case he wants to cut a deal, but I don't think that even a (very) hypothetical Sanders JD would bite.
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Oct 14, 2015 15:59
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Nolanar posted:Webb is a giant thumb with bad opinions and I don't understand why he's even running. Angling for a cabinet spot.
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Oct 14, 2015 15:59
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Fried Chicken posted:Let's add some context here If throughout his career his greatest enemy has been some guy he killed nearly 50 years ago he hasn't really done anything noteworthy though. I mean good on him, but still.
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Oct 14, 2015 15:59
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Nolanar posted:Webb is a giant thumb with bad opinions and I don't understand why he's even running. Webb's a secret Republican that's just using the Democratic debates for some exposure before switching parties midway through the primary
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Oct 14, 2015 16:02
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If what Snowden did didn't matter then why did we have to end the program that was spying on US Citizens? I kind of think what he did was pretty amazing personally. He obviously did what he felt was the moral thing to do when he saw what he felt was a immoral act. He also kind of did it and felt that he was going to be killed.
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Oct 14, 2015 16:02
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nachos posted:Webb's a secret Republican that's just using the Democratic debates for some exposure before switching parties midway through the primary Traditionally there were plenty of democrats like that. The problem is that the blue dogs are dead, someone should tell Webb because he didn't seem to get the memo.
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Oct 14, 2015 16:03
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nachos posted:Webb's a secret Republican that's just using the Democratic debates for some exposure before switching parties midway through the primary He can go from not mattering in the Democratic party to not mattering in the Republican party. hobbesmaster posted:Traditionally there were plenty of democrats like that. The problem is that the blue dogs are dead, someone should tell Webb because he didn't seem to get the memo. Which part of him was Progressive though besides he voted against Iraq?
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Oct 14, 2015 16:04
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Hollismason posted:If what Snowden did didn't matter then why did we have to end the program that was spying on US Citizens? I kind of think what he did was pretty amazing personally. He obviously did what he felt was the moral thing to do when he saw what he felt was a immoral act. He also kind of did it and felt that he was going to be killed. The NSA is still spying domestically and even watching/cataloguing the SA forums thanks to LF, Caro, and other stupid poo poo that's been said over the years.
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Oct 14, 2015 16:05
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lol @ anyone being mad over Sanders dodging the draft to your lovely war. The military voted in Bush and Reagan twice for being "tough", despite both of them being chickenshits.
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Oct 14, 2015 16:06
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Eimi posted:I really don't get why everyone said Hillary did so well at the debate. I mean she didn't mess up, but I still don't get a sense from her that she is campaigning on any other platform than "I served my time, make me president drat it." At least that's the sense I get from her. I'll hold my nose and vote for her when she wins That's why she won.
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Oct 14, 2015 16:07
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Hollismason posted:If what Snowden did didn't matter then why did we have to end the program that was spying on US Citizens? I kind of think what he did was pretty amazing personally. He obviously did what he felt was the moral thing to do when he saw what he felt was a immoral act. He also kind of did it and felt that he was going to be killed. http://www.computerweekly.com/feature/Interview-the-original-NSA-whistleblower there were other whistleblowers that tried to work within the system like hillary and obama wanted. they were ignored and blackballed for their efforts, and now we're supposed to believe that snowden did the wrong thing by going outside of the corrupt apparatus that was burying the very issues that were being raised.
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Oct 14, 2015 16:07
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Hodgepodge posted:This is the difference between liking the idea in the abstract and actually seeing it as a major achievement that has been fought long and hard for. It means something to you, but not a lot. (Some of that may be legit burnout from symbolic and social victories without substantial leftward movement on policy as well, to be fair). That's fair and generally accurate. Obama's presidency ended up being more or less what I imagined a Hillary presidency would look like back in 2008. That really bothers me. I felt that I was voting against entrenched interests with my Obama vote and those interests just melded into his administration after the election. So Hillary now being essentially an extension of Obama's legacy (while not being a terrible path considering great progress in some areas) seems like the wrong choice for America now. I also think Bernie's line about how no President can enact the change we want without a huge groundswell of support is important and Hillary was oddly silent in agreeing with that. To me, that said that she doesn't think she needs that kind of support because she doesn't represent drastic change so much as status quo. Electing a female President means a lot to me. Changing our country's trajectory means more. Do I think Sanders could get much of his platform enacted? Probably not, but I can rest easy knowing he isn't going to be putting Goldman bankers in charge of the economy.
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Oct 14, 2015 16:08
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FizFashizzle posted:Angling for a cabinet spot. Do primary opponents really end up on the winner's cabinet all that often? Obviously there was Clinton at State under Obama, but she was already really prominent and there had to be an effort to show unity after a pretty contentious primary. Why give away a post to some wet fart just because he managed 0.8% of the vote in Iowa?
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Oct 14, 2015 16:08
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negativeneil posted:That's fair and generally accurate. Obama's presidency ended up being more or less what I imagined a Hillary presidency would look like back in 2008. That really bothers me. I felt that I was voting against entrenched interests with my Obama vote and those interests just melded into his administration after the election. You haven't been paying attention, if you believe that. Obama and Clinton have vastly differing views on foreign policy, and Hillary made that pretty drat clear in that book she wrote.
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Oct 14, 2015 16:09
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negativeneil posted:That's fair and generally accurate. Obama's presidency ended up being more or less what I imagined a Hillary presidency would look like back in 2008. That really bothers me. I felt that I was voting against entrenched interests with my Obama vote and those interests just melded into his administration after the election. So Hillary now being essentially an extension of Obama's legacy (while not being a terrible path considering great progress in some areas) seems like the wrong choice for America now.
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Oct 14, 2015 16:09
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Nolanar posted:Do primary opponents really end up on the winner's cabinet all that often? Obviously there was Clinton at State under Obama, but she was already really prominent and there had to be an effort to show unity after a pretty contentious primary. Why give away a post to some wet fart just because he managed 0.8% of the vote in Iowa? VP is basically a cabinet spot and that's pretty frequently given to one of the other candidates.
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Oct 14, 2015 16:09
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ratbert90 posted:Well our drone policies, the NSA spying, the pro-wallstreet laws, the non-prosecution of the people who caused the financial meltdown to begin with, the persecution of the occupy protesters just to name a few. Did you miss the parts where she went after republicans and supported paid maternity leave.
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Oct 14, 2015 16:10
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Mr. Nice! posted:His actions in revealing a program that had been publicly approved by congress years earlier? The NSA has been spying on its own citizens since the patriot act and Snowden didn't particularly reveal anything new. He isn't a hero. It's amazing how quickly people are moving to revise history with regard to the Snowden leaks. Before his leaks people that were super plugged in to politics suspected this was the case but his leaks proved the scale at which it was happening, and more importantly, moved it into the public's consciousness in a way that couldn't be ignored. And that's a very conservative reading of the whole issue, ignoring the way people who speculated about NSA spying were branding as conspiracy theorists or insane before Snowden.
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Oct 14, 2015 16:10
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Snowden was most likely going to be murdered or thrown into solitary confinement without trial like Manning if he stayed in the US.
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Oct 14, 2015 16:11
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negativeneil posted:That's fair and generally accurate. Obama's presidency ended up being more or less what I imagined a Hillary presidency would look like back in 2008. That really bothers me. I felt that I was voting against entrenched interests with my Obama vote and those interests just melded into his administration after the election. So Hillary now being essentially an extension of Obama's legacy (while not being a terrible path considering great progress in some areas) seems like the wrong choice for America now. If Sanders gets the nod, then you'd better hope for a Trump or Cruz ticket on the other side because otherwise he'd get his skis waxed.
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Oct 14, 2015 16:11
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Zeroisanumber posted:Snowden realizes that he's just a bargaining chip for Putin and will be sold out to the US whenever it's convenient for Russia. That being the case he wants to cut a deal, but I don't think that even a (very) hypothetical Sanders JD would bite. I read Sander's Snowden comments as basically saying he'd grant him a commutation.
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Oct 14, 2015 16:11
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If you are a Bernie voter you are a misogynist and racist, if you are a Clinton voter you support women and minorities. End of story.Job Truniht posted:lol @ anyone being mad over Sanders dodging the draft to your lovely war. The military voted in Bush and Reagan twice for being "tough", despite both of them being chickenshits. Americans being hypocritical idiots is a surprise to you? If anything, most Americans can relate to being bellicose Army hero cowboys, when in fact they are obese, objectively retarded cowards (which is why they loved Reagan and Bush). Radbot fucked around with this message at 16:14 on Oct 14, 2015 |
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Oct 14, 2015 16:12
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euphronius posted:Did you miss the parts where she went after republicans and supported paid maternity leave. And supported decriminalization of weed possession.
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Oct 14, 2015 16:12
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Radbot posted:If you are a Bernie voter you are a misogynist and racist, if you are a Clinton voter you support women and minorities. End of story. It's the Democratic Party's own drat fault for letting socialists into their political narrative to clash with their petite bourgeois liberal sensibilities.
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Oct 14, 2015 16:14
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negativeneil posted:That's fair and generally accurate. Obama's presidency ended up being more or less what I imagined a Hillary presidency would look like back in 2008. That really bothers me. I felt that I was voting against entrenched interests with my Obama vote and those interests just melded into his administration after the election. So Hillary now being essentially an extension of Obama's legacy (while not being a terrible path considering great progress in some areas) seems like the wrong choice for America now. This is why state and off-year elections are so important. I'm glad Bernie has been bringing attention to that, and a little puzzled at how Obama wasn't able to galvanize that sort of action despite all his campaign infrastructure supposedly available to be repurposed. e: I don't even think a massive groundswell would do the trick unless it were reflected in the election of progressive Democrats in at least the Senate and those Congressional seats not gerrymandered beyond hope. The Tea Party doesn't give a poo poo about how much support anyone else has, and will die believing that they represent a silent, oppressed majority even as they scream at the top of their lungs at anyone on their own team who doesn't represent their faction of the Republican coalition. Hodgepodge fucked around with this message at 16:23 on Oct 14, 2015 |
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Oct 14, 2015 16:15
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Fried Chicken posted:Let's add some context here He's also a pretty decent author.  and Matterhorn are my two favorite novels about the Vietnam war.
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Oct 14, 2015 16:15
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Also, questioning a woman instantly makes you a misogynist. Do not argue this fact. Women's opinions are true and real, and they do not need you mansplaining to them.
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Oct 14, 2015 16:15
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Ron Jeremy posted:He's also a pretty decent author. Is this autobiographical or fictional?
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Oct 14, 2015 16:16
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Radbot posted:Also, questioning a woman instantly makes you a misogynist. Do not argue this fact. Women's opinions are true and real, and they do not need you mansplaining to them. Thanks redditor. I'm glad the person I was actually replying to isn't pulling this crap.
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Oct 14, 2015 16:17
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Nolanar posted:Do primary opponents really end up on the winner's cabinet all that often? Obviously there was Clinton at State under Obama, but she was already really prominent and there had to be an effort to show unity after a pretty contentious primary. Why give away a post to some wet fart just because he managed 0.8% of the vote in Iowa?
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Oct 14, 2015 16:18
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Inferior Third Season posted:Because presidential candidates are often prominent members of the party, Not in this case. Her primary competitor isn't even a Democrat.
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Oct 14, 2015 16:19
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:I read Sander's Snowden comments as basically saying he'd grant him a commutation. And Obama wants to close Gitmo and free all non-violent federal drug offenders. Political reality and what a president would like to do don't always match up.
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Oct 14, 2015 16:19
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zoux posted:Is this autobiographical or fictional? If it's autobiographical Webb has some explaining to do
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Oct 14, 2015 16:20
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I'm voting Chafee because I want our first child president.
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Oct 14, 2015 16:20
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Zeroisanumber posted:And Obama wants to close Gitmo and free all non-violent federal drug offenders. Political reality and what a president would like to do don't always match up. The pardon power is wholly executive, though.
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Oct 14, 2015 16:22
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