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KomradeX posted:Didn't these fucks out us through a month of defending the Confederate flag and Confederate historical revisionism? I'm not crazy right this is poo poo that all recently happened? I'm sure part of this is them thinking they are cute and clever and trying to make a point about how unfair that was by doing the same thing to a person liberals are supposed to worship.
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Oct 14, 2015 19:44
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Maarek posted:No you see in negotiation it's good for your starting position to be a compromise rather than what you actually want. I was not discussing negotiation or compromise. I was discussing where effort needs to be applied to get the results. You need to be particularly stupid to come up with discussions of compromise from my post. to put it in the simplest possible terms: your enemy in enacting these policies are Republicans in the House (and to a lesser degree in the Senate). Those are who you have to knock out, not Clinton. No President - not even Bernie - is going to get you one bit closer to those policies without changing the House. evilweasel fucked around with this message at 19:48 on Oct 14, 2015 |
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Oct 14, 2015 19:45
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Electric Bugaloo posted:Saying that she's more electable or more likely to get Republicans to go along with her ignores history and buys into the same logic that sees the National Democrats actively trying to suppress local campaigns with genuine momentum for candidates that they don't deem adequately milquetoast enough to play to a center that doesn't exist anymore. Never mind the literally millions of one-time Obama voters (and younger people at this point too) that do exist. Bernie has the enthusiasm of his base but you're not going to beat the widespread appeal of Hillary. The same years in the political arena that made Republicans ridiculously angry about her also increased her appeal with Democrats. You have a large portion of the voting Democratic population who have grown up with Hillary and will unequivocally support her. They might not be going I'M WITH HILLARY and attending record attendance crowds, but they will choose her over X. The real people who are furious at [insert scandal here] about her and won't go along with her even into the general are called Republicans and they were already a lost cause. I'm just saying that enthusiasm for Bernie cannot 1. defeat the larger political infrastructure that is in play with Hillary 2. will not adequately outnumber Hillary supporters outside of a few choice primary states. She also has a larger appeal to women / minorities which increase her electability over the Republican nominee, that I feel Bernie cannot properly organize and harness compared to her.
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Oct 14, 2015 19:48
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DOOP posted:I'm not reading 300 posts. Is it all Hillary/Sanders slapfights? No, I think the closest to a slap fight was over snowden/nsa and that was less than a dozen posts, mainly just debate aftermath talking. Nothing all that funny or exciting though so you won't miss much
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Oct 14, 2015 19:49
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Good news, we're probably not going to default (we will shut down the government though, of course): http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/boehner-debt-ceiling-votequote:Anonymous GOP sources are telling Politico that House Speaker John Boehner (R-OH) is looking to move a bill that would lift the debt ceiling before he steps down. According to the Politico report, published Wednesday, Boehner is still trying to negotiate a deal with the White House that would include the debt ceiling raise within a larger budget package. However, Politico's sources say, if those talks fall through, GOP leadership is willing to put forth a standalone debt ceiling bill -- a so-called "clean" bill -- before a new speaker takes over Boehner's gavel.
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Oct 14, 2015 19:51
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evilweasel posted:Good news, we're probably not going to default (we will shut down the government though, of course): http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/boehner-debt-ceiling-vote But for how long?
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Oct 14, 2015 19:52
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AlternateNu posted:That reminds me. I was listening to C-SPAN in my car a couple days ago, and they had a right-wing bobble head talking about the "extremes" on both sides of the spectrum in this election cycle. He said that the extremism brought on by Bernie is doing far less damage to the Democratic brand and do less to depress D-turn out not because he is more/less insane than his republican counterparts, but that he is completely genuine in what he's spouting. This is partially because while both sides bemoan the purity of their candidates, the right has moved so far right that they bemoan them even if they do things that would tactically make sense. While liberals and lefties may groan and complain about half-measures like Don't Ask-Don't Tell, they have seen the light that the right is insane and will suck it up. The right wing, however truly believe that if they just had the Great Conservative Hope appear, they will achieve final victory. If you've read Prester John's thread, the idea that they are eager to see a new war of righteousness against evil, and a honest straight-talking evil person fits their view, and they only want the same on their side.
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Oct 14, 2015 19:52
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Radish posted:I'm sure part of this is them thinking they are cute and clever and trying to make a point about how unfair that was by doing the same thing to a person liberals are supposed to worship. Of course it is, but the god drat irony is to loving much
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Oct 14, 2015 19:53
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zoux posted:What are they "techincally" right about? she supported negative eugenics
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Oct 14, 2015 19:53
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Trabisnikof posted:But for how long? IIRC about 2 weeks before Christmas, so the government shutting down during the busiest two weeks of consumer shopping will be loving ~amazing~.
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Oct 14, 2015 19:55
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evilweasel posted:Good news, we're probably not going to default (we will shut down the government though, of course): http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/boehner-debt-ceiling-vote Is this assuming an Oct. 30 stepdown for him? We'll see if that happens. Condiv posted:she supported negative eugenics yikes
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Oct 14, 2015 19:56
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A Winner is Jew posted:IIRC about 2 weeks before Christmas, so the government shutting down during the busiest two weeks of consumer shopping will be loving ~amazing~. The debt ceiling relief would most likely last until Jan 2017.
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Oct 14, 2015 20:02
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evilweasel posted:Good news, we're probably not going to default (we will shut down the government though, of course): http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/boehner-debt-ceiling-vote They better not loving shut down funding to DoJ before January 10th. 
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Oct 14, 2015 20:06
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zoux posted:Also lol at your hagiography of the Noble Sanders. Serious question - what do you think Hillary's net worth compared to Bernie's says about them as people? Anything?
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Oct 14, 2015 20:17
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Unzip and Attack posted:Serious question - what do you think Hillary's net worth compared to Bernie's says about them as people? I don't give a poo poo about the politics of personality. For all I know Bernie hires black prostitutes to re-enact antebellum slave sex scenarios. All I care about is their political acumen. You are never going to find a moral politician.
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Oct 14, 2015 20:21
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pathetic little tramp posted:Don't you worry guys, congwess is ON DA CASE: But don't touch our confederate flags or monuments!
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Oct 14, 2015 20:22
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AlternateNu posted:They better not loving shut down funding to DoJ before January 10th. Why what's happening?
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Oct 14, 2015 20:24
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Logikv9 posted:Bernie has the enthusiasm of his base but you're not going to beat the widespread appeal of Hillary. The same years in the political arena that made Republicans ridiculously angry about her also increased her appeal with Democrats. You have a large portion of the voting Democratic population who have grown up with Hillary and will unequivocally support her. They might not be going I'M WITH HILLARY and attending record attendance crowds, but they will choose her over X. The real people who are furious at [insert scandal here] about her and won't go along with her even into the general are called Republicans and they were already a lost cause. Not to be glib, but people literally said all of this about Barack Obama in 2007. And now that we know what a Republican congress looks like with such a president, I think people are less afraid of backing "difficult" candidates as well. foobardog posted:This is partially because while both sides bemoan the purity of their candidates, the right has moved so far right that they bemoan them even if they do things that would tactically make sense. While liberals and lefties may groan and complain about half-measures like Don't Ask-Don't Tell, they have seen the light that the right is insane and will suck it up. The right wing, however truly believe that if they just had the Great Conservative Hope appear, they will achieve final victory. It helps that we're much closer to a satisfying conclusion on the marriage equality front than we were even in 2012. I think a lot of people gained an appreciation for how the long game works (and, crucially, how short it can really be). The narrative went from "we'll fight hard to reach a plateau but then we'll have to wait a few decades for lots of fundies to die before making more progress....or something" to a social revolution with a clear progression that you can trace through history.
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Oct 14, 2015 20:25
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zen death robot posted:The Clintons' net worth was pretty tiny before Bill got elected president in 1992 and they came into the money because he got paid huge bucks for public speaking after he left the office. And they were in a poo poo load of debt when he left office because of all the legal fees they incurred due to 8 years of republican which hunts. That's probably reason #4 I'm supporting Hillary over Bernie, you know she's not going to put up with poo poo from those chuckle fucks once elected.
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Oct 14, 2015 20:26
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zoux posted:I don't give a poo poo about the politics of personality. For all I know Bernie hires black prostitutes to re-enact antebellum slave sex scenarios. All I care about is their political acumen. You are never going to find a moral politician. Who was the politician who had an affair with his 17 year old intern and did exactly that? He got her pregnant and then sent out a "family" photo of them in antebellum garb.
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Oct 14, 2015 20:27
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A Winner is Jew posted:And they were in a poo poo load of debt when he left office because of all the legal fees they incurred due to 8 years of republican which hunts. It's a loving ridiculous test for a political candidate. Hurrr rich people running for president? I'm going to vote for the least rich among them, as that person must be the most moral. Fried Chicken posted:Who was the politician who had an affair with his 17 year old intern and did exactly that? He got her pregnant and then sent out a "family" photo of them in antebellum garb. I don't remember the name but I remember what you're talking about. I was sneak dissing Zeitgeist myself, though.
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Oct 14, 2015 20:27
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A Winner is Jew posted:And they were in a poo poo load of debt when he left office because of all the legal fees they incurred due to 8 years of republican which hunts. That's basically reason #1 for me. At my most cynical and negative read of her, she still hates who I hate and will fight them on every inch just to make them bleed. I'll take it.
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Oct 14, 2015 20:28
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Fried Chicken posted:That's basically reason #1 for me. At my most cynical and negative read of her, she still hates who I hate and will fight them on every inch just to make them bleed. I'll take it. Nobody hates conservatives like Hillary hates conservatives.
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Oct 14, 2015 20:29
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Hollismason posted:Why what's happening? That's when I start training for my new job with them. And I've been waiting years for this job.
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Oct 14, 2015 20:30
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Electric Bugaloo posted:Not to be glib, but people literally said all of this about Barack Obama in 2007. And now that we know what a Republican congress looks like with such a president, I think people are less afraid of backing "difficult" candidates as well. I don't know why people think repeating that Obama made it is at all relevant. Sanders is not Obama, and he is not in the situation Obama was in in 2007. I mean, I could probably compare something about Sanders to Ron Paul or Nader if I really wanted to. It wouldn't mean anything. Chelb fucked around with this message at 20:33 on Oct 14, 2015 |
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Oct 14, 2015 20:30
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Fried Chicken posted:That's basically reason #1 for me. At my most cynical and negative read of her, she still hates who I hate and will fight them on every inch just to make them bleed. I'll take it. Also 8 years of Obama have made it clear it's not any special loathing for the Clintons that produces Republican insanity, it's the notion of a Democratic president.
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Oct 14, 2015 20:33
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zoux posted:You are never going to find a moral politician. So edgy. zoux posted:Nobody hates conservatives like Hillary hates conservatives. I thought the personal qualities of politicians don't matter, only their political acumen?
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Oct 14, 2015 20:33
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AlternateNu posted:That's when I start training for my new job with them. And I've been waiting years for this job. Government will be shut down then, sorry, crazies will be even crazier because their debt ceiling toy will have been given away.
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Oct 14, 2015 20:34
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AlternateNu posted:That's when I start training for my new job with them. And I've been waiting years for this job. It happens... 
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Oct 14, 2015 20:34
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A Winner is Jew posted:And they were in a poo poo load of debt when he left office because of all the legal fees they incurred due to 8 years of republican which hunts. I can definitely agree with this. If I went back to 2008, I would vote Clinton over Obama knowing that she would not try to play the bipartisan game as long as he did. The worst that could have come out of that would be 2012 being a much closer race, but I don't know. Electric Bugaloo posted:It helps that we're much closer to a satisfying conclusion on the marriage equality front than we were even in 2012. I think a lot of people gained an appreciation for how the long game works (and, crucially, how short it can really be). The narrative went from "we'll fight hard to reach a plateau but then we'll have to wait a few decades for lots of fundies to die before making more progress....or something" to a social revolution with a clear progression that you can trace through history. Yeah, and to be fair, it's important to remember that while we're working to make lovely compromises into good programs, conservatives are working to chip away at successes (see voting rights and abortion). Politics never ends. ¡Hasta la Victoria Siempre! Unzip and Attack posted:Serious question - what do you think Hillary's net worth compared to Bernie's says about them as people? Even accepting Marxian belief in the way class forces the hands of political actors, Bernie and Hillary are not so far apart to be different. Neither of them are blue-collar salts of the earth, and luckily neither of them are titans of finance and industry. Even given how much class is overlooked in American political discourse, it's really not a big deal here as people would make it out to be. e: Although, holy poo poo, it's night and day difference: http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/elections/2015/08/26/24-7-wall-st-net-worth-presidential-candidates/32409491/ foobardog fucked around with this message at 20:37 on Oct 14, 2015 |
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Oct 14, 2015 20:34
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Electric Bugaloo posted:Not to be glib, but people literally said all of this about Barack Obama in 2007. And now that we know what a Republican congress looks like with such a president, I think people are less afraid of backing "difficult" candidates as well. In hindsight, Obama with his team put on a masterclass for running a political organization, and in modern times, it will be who can do similarly that will win the White House. Who today is looking to be that disciplined? I think that throws out many of the Republicans, is Mark Penn going to ruin poo poo again? What is Sanders doing?
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Oct 14, 2015 20:35
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foobardog posted:
No Bernie has $500k which means he is only 26 percent evil, whereas HRCs $11 million equals to 75 percent, or mostly, evil. My vote counts the same as yours, I'll remind you.
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Oct 14, 2015 20:36
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foobardog posted:
But they are different. Seriously, I have to explain this to people in D&D? Yes they agree on a lot, but they don't agree on everything and their differences are substantive. Hillary jumped full on board with Iraq because she's an empty suit more concerned with her career than the million dead Iraqis that resulted.
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Oct 14, 2015 20:37
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Unzip and Attack posted:But they are different. Seriously, I have to explain this to people in D&D? Yes they agree on a lot, but they don't agree on everything and their differences are substantive. No one has said other wise.
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Oct 14, 2015 20:38
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zoux posted:No one has said other wise. Bernie and Hillary are not so far apart to be different. - direct quote
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Oct 14, 2015 20:39
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foobardog posted:I can definitely agree with this. If I went back to 2008, I would vote Clinton over Obama knowing that she would not try to play the bipartisan game as long as he did. The worst that could have come out of that would be 2012 being a much closer race, but I don't know. I don't know, I feel like without Obama's giving Republicans literally every chance to be adults we would have still had as much gridlock, but Clinton would have gotten all the blame for it. Unzip and Attack posted:But they are different. Seriously, I have to explain this to people in D&D? Yes they agree on a lot, but they don't agree on everything and their differences are substantive. Hillary jumped full on board with Iraq because she's an empty suit more concerned with her career than the million dead Iraqis that resulted. Not in terms of the gulf between them and the candidate they would face in the general.
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Oct 14, 2015 20:39
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Unzip and Attack posted:Hillary jumped full on board with Iraq because she's an empty suit more concerned with her career than the million dead Iraqis that resulted. And Bernie jumped full on board with staying in Iraq because something something.
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Oct 14, 2015 20:39
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evilweasel posted:Also 8 years of Obama have made it clear it's not any special loathing for the Clintons that produces Republican insanity, it's the notion of a Democratic president. Frankly, I think that Republicans are accepting of losing the House or Senate because - what can you do - there are 600+ races and you're going to lose a lot of them. But the idea that their worldview can't convince 50% of the country in a presidential contest is infuriating.
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Oct 14, 2015 20:39
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Unzip and Attack posted:But they are different. Seriously, I have to explain this to people in D&D? Yes they agree on a lot, but they don't agree on everything and their differences are substantive. I wasn't saying that as far as policy, and I admit I didn't realize the difference in net worth. My point is merely as class goes. Both of them are petite bourgeois, though Clinton can move up into solid bourgeois. Yes, there are differences, and strong ones, that's why I'm supporting Sanders. But, it's not because he's of the right class and Clinton is of the wrong one.
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Oct 14, 2015 20:39
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Unzip and Attack posted:Bernie and Hillary are not so far apart to be different. - direct quote You have bad reading comprehension.
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Oct 14, 2015 20:40
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