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Unzip and Attack posted:Bernie and Hillary are not so far apart to be different. - direct quote You have bad reading comprehension.
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Oct 14, 2015 20:40
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computer parts posted:And Bernie jumped full on board with staying in Iraq because something something. Yeah staying in an attempt to prop up the provisional government and keep it from immediate collapse is exactly the same as toppling the previous regime based on completely transparent bullshit. WTF D&D?
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Oct 14, 2015 20:41
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Trabisnikof posted:I don't know, I feel like without Obama's giving Republicans literally every chance to be adults we would have still had as much gridlock, but Clinton would have gotten all the blame for it. Yeah, that's why I have some pause. Though I don't see her squandering the temporary majority in Congress as much. Trabisnikof posted:Not in terms of the gulf between them and the candidate they would face in the general. Though apparently Rubio is broke as poo poo comparatively!
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Oct 14, 2015 20:42
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Unzip and Attack posted:Yeah staying in an attempt to prop up the provisional government and keep it from immediate collapse is exactly the same as toppling the previous regime based on completely transparent bullshit. WTF D&D? Most of the Iraqis died while propping up the provisional government.
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Oct 14, 2015 20:42
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I notice that among Bernie supporters, there's the same vein of "My candidate has never failed, nor done bad" that was common among Paulites.
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Oct 14, 2015 20:43
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Unzip and Attack posted:Yeah staying in an attempt to prop up the provisional government and keep it from immediate collapse is exactly the same as toppling the previous regime based on completely transparent bullshit. WTF D&D? It's naked imperialism so yes?
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Oct 14, 2015 20:43
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Something I've heard about Sanders v. Clinton in the general is that most Bernie supporters are very passionate about the candidate, while Hillary voters seem to be middling/lesser of the two evils/resigned. If Bernie actually gets the momentum to be the Democratic nominee in the general election, I feel like the voter turnout would be bigger for Democrats; Hillary supporters won't have a problem jumping on the Bernie train, but that's not so much the case the other way around; a lot of people might just not vote against out of frustration if he loses. There's no statistical basis for this, but I feel like voter turnout for Presidency and for Congress would obviously work in the favor of the D candidate, and that turnout would be stronger for Sanders supporters who are more impassioned about making real change.
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Oct 14, 2015 20:43
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zoux posted:I notice that among Bernie supporters, there's the same vein of "My candidate has never failed, nor done bad" that was common among Paulites. Hey look a strawman. That took 2 minutes. Yeah I agree that after the invasion we should have immediately withdrawn. That would have been great. (I can do straw men too!)
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Oct 14, 2015 20:43
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Brodeurs Nanny posted:Something I've heard about Sanders v. Clinton in the general is that most Bernie supporters are very passionate about the candidate, while Hillary voters seem to be middling/lesser of the two evils/resigned. If Bernie actually gets the momentum to be the Democratic nominee in the general election, I feel like the voter turnout would be bigger for Democrats; Hillary supporters won't have a problem jumping on the Bernie train, but that's not so much the case the other way around; a lot of people might just not vote against out of frustration if he loses. Your conclusion is wrong. Sanders turnout would guarantee most of the GOP candidates would beat him.
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Oct 14, 2015 20:44
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Brodeurs Nanny posted:Something I've heard about Sanders v. Clinton in the general is that most Bernie supporters are very passionate about the candidate, while Hillary voters seem to be middling/lesser of the two evils/resigned. If Bernie actually gets the momentum to be the Democratic nominee in the general election, I feel like the voter turnout would be bigger for Democrats; Hillary supporters won't have a problem jumping on the Bernie train, but that's not so much the case the other way around; a lot of people might just not vote against out of frustration if he loses. Bernie is (arguably intentionally) serving as a GOTV effort for Dems even if he loses. It's kinda devious honestly.
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Oct 14, 2015 20:44
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In a Bernie Sanders administration we wouldn't be bombing/invading any Mideastern countries. Mainly because we'd be arming and bankrolling Israel to self-defend Arab cities into rubble on a larger scale, but hey no American boots on the ground or birds in the air.
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Oct 14, 2015 20:44
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Unzip and Attack posted:Hey look a strawman. That took 2 minutes. Yeah I agree that after the invasion we should have immediately withdrawn. That would have been great. Bro you're in here acting like every other politically ignorant Bernie backer that decided to post here today for some reason, the strawmen are real.
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Oct 14, 2015 20:45
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whole thread for this bullshit. Multiple threads. Has there been any progress on the goddamn debt ceiling? All direct quotes are basically "It's possible we could fix it, sure!" but no commitments. Today I've also seen a hilarious glut of bullshit fringe news sites (Breitbart, lol) saying that random unimportant people from nowheresville are MULLING SPEAKER RUNS haha.
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Oct 14, 2015 20:45
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CNN/ORC SC GOP poll Trump 36 Carson 18 Rubio 9 Fiorina 7 Bush 6 Cruz 5 Graham 5 Paul 4 Huckabee 3 Not sure how much I can believe this, orcs can only vote in mordor after all... Trump has said he will need to attack Carson soon, I don't know why he doesn't just make a VP pitch to him.
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Oct 14, 2015 20:45
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Sanders excites young people who are exactly the same people who don't vote as much.
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Oct 14, 2015 20:46
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whitey delenda est posted:whole thread for this bullshit. Multiple threads. Actually, yeah. evilweasel posted:Good news, we're probably not going to default (we will shut down the government though, of course): http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/boehner-debt-ceiling-vote
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Oct 14, 2015 20:46
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whitey delenda est posted:
Republican leaders are negotiating to include it in a budget bill. If that fails they're willing to pass a clean bill for an unspecified amount of time (most likely until after the elections).
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Oct 14, 2015 20:46
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Fried Chicken posted:CNN/ORC SC GOP poll If I would've told you on the day that Jeb announced that he'd be polling at 6% in SC in October, what would you have told me?
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Oct 14, 2015 20:47
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foobardog posted:Yeah, that's why I have some pause. Though I don't see her squandering the temporary majority in Congress as much. Isn't this the point where someone points out that there wasn't really any democratic majority cause of contested elections and everything else D&D busts out when people say that about Obama?
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Oct 14, 2015 20:48
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heh ^  zouxFried Chicken posted:CNN/ORC SC GOP poll I think I would have literally laughed in your face if you told me 4 months ago that ¡JEB! would be polling at SIX PERCENT in South Carolina. V Yes, thank you, sorry I've been swiping this entire goddamn thread left
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Oct 14, 2015 20:48
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whitey delenda est posted:Has there been any progress on the goddamn debt ceiling? All direct quotes are basically "It's possible we could fix it, sure!" but no commitments.
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Oct 14, 2015 20:49
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E: Nevermind dumb derail.
Unzip and Attack fucked around with this message at 20:51 on Oct 14, 2015 |
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Oct 14, 2015 20:49
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KomradeX posted:Isn't this the point where someone points out that there wasn't really any democratic majority cause of contested elections and everything else D&D busts out when people say that about Obama? There wasn't a supermajority but they had 59 in the Senate on inauguration day, and a straight up solid majority in the House.
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Oct 14, 2015 20:49
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KomradeX posted:Isn't this the point where someone points out that there wasn't really any democratic majority cause of contested elections and everything else D&D busts out when people say that about Obama? We've given up hope trying to stop the revisionist history.
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Oct 14, 2015 20:49
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KomradeX posted:Isn't this the point where someone points out that there wasn't really any democratic majority cause of contested elections and everything else D&D busts out when people say that about Obama? Eh, that's true and its also true that Obama hosed up poo poo, like that rumored nuclear/climate deal with Graham along with his transition process took forever. Seriously, Obama's slow on-boarding still is a huge problem for the administration. edit: thanks fried chicken for catching my senator switchup Trabisnikof fucked around with this message at 21:01 on Oct 14, 2015 |
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Oct 14, 2015 20:50
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The majorities consisted of now extinct Blue Dogs right?
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Oct 14, 2015 20:50
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euphronius posted:Sanders excites young people who are exactly the same people who don't vote as much. Isn't the excitement of young people part of the reason why Obama won much bigger against McCain, and their disappointment in him part of the reason Romney did better? Like, do you want to return to the 00s where the Democrats were like "young people don't vote, gently caress 'em"? The need is to get them involved in the lower ticket races, not just every 4 years.
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Oct 14, 2015 20:50
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euphronius posted:The majorities consisted of now extinct Blue Dogs right? Yes, in both houses. The most notable of these is Walt Minnick from Idaho (elected 2008, defeated 2010), who voted most commonly with Ron Paul.
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Oct 14, 2015 20:51
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zoux posted:If I would've told you on the day that Jeb announced that he'd be polling at 6% in SC in October, what would you have told me? I'd point out that by the existing models of what determines the nominee he is still far and away the most likely to be the GOP candidate a year from now. Question is if the models have been that disrupted, which I am skeptical about
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Oct 14, 2015 20:51
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euphronius posted:The majorities consisted of now extinct Blue Dogs right? Yep. So that was part of the problem, but I think Clinton would have done a much better job of whipping them in line than Obama. Obama spent more time whipping the progressives in line. The final bill would have likely been the same, but it'd not have been like pulling teeth as it was.
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Oct 14, 2015 20:52
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foobardog posted:Isn't the excitement of young people part of the reason why Obama won much bigger against McCain, and their disappointment in him part of the reason Romney did better? Partially but now you are comparing Sanders to Obama and I mean come on.
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Oct 14, 2015 20:52
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euphronius posted:Your conclusion is wrong. Sanders turnout would guarantee most of the GOP candidates would beat him. Can you explain why? I'm not being argumentative, I'm interested. I think plenty of Bernie supporters are people who had lost faith in voting and he's gotten them excited about making a change. If he loses the primary, some of those voters might pack it in again. And don't plenty of polls show Sanders faring well against most of the GOP candidates? I'd have a hard time believing he wouldn't, as long as whoever the GOP candidate is keeps saying insane reprehensible poo poo and Bernie talks about things that resonate with a huge majority of Americans. I like to be optimist but realistic as well, so maybe you can give me a different perspective on this.
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Oct 14, 2015 20:54
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foobardog posted:Isn't the excitement of young people part of the reason why Obama won much bigger against McCain, and their disappointment in him part of the reason Romney did better? Freaking exactly. "The youth don't vote because they're apathetic" "What if we took measures to make them less apathetic?" "Why bother, the youth just don't vote, who can say why?"
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Oct 14, 2015 20:54
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Trabisnikof posted:Eh, that's true and its also true that Obama hosed up poo poo, like that rumored nuclear/climate deal with Grassley along with his transition process took forever. Graham, not Grassley. Grassley is criminal justice, Graham is energy
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Oct 14, 2015 20:54
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euphronius posted:Partially but now you are comparing Sanders to Obama and I mean come on. Comparing, not equating. He's not Obama, but to overlook his support of the youth and the importance of getting the youth vote out for Democrats is short-sighted. Clinton supporters seem just as eager to compare Sanders supporters to Ron Paul supporters when it benefits them. ... Oh god, I've been pulled in the Hillary-Bernie maelstrom...
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Oct 14, 2015 20:55
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whitey delenda est posted:
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Oct 14, 2015 20:56
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Brodeurs Nanny posted:Can you explain why? I'm not being argumentative, I'm interested. I think plenty of Bernie supporters are people who had lost faith in voting and he's gotten them excited about making a change. If he loses the primary, some of those voters might pack it in again. Let me show you these polls from more than a year out that everyone agrees are largely meaningless but prove how Sanders can't win...
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Oct 14, 2015 20:57
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Sword of Chomsky posted:We've given up hope trying to stop the revisionist history. It just seems to be sime people are now setting up a new narrative for that old bit of revisionism. Which thanks to D&D got me to give up on since it wasn't really true KomradeX fucked around with this message at 20:59 on Oct 14, 2015 |
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Oct 14, 2015 20:57
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foobardog posted:Comparing, not equating. He's not Obama, but to overlook his support of the youth and the importance of getting the youth vote out for Democrats is short-sighted. Clinton supporters seem just as eager to compare Sanders supporters to Ron Paul supporters when it benefits them. The key difference is that Obama got significant support from establishment elements, whereas none of them are turning out for Bernie.
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Oct 14, 2015 20:58
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FAUXTON posted:In a Bernie Sanders administration we wouldn't be bombing/invading any Mideastern countries.  drones).Chafee's the peace guy, Bernie has basically got Bill Clinton's foreign policy.
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Oct 14, 2015 20:59
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