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Fried Chicken posted:Lol if you didn't wait until the first week was done to find out what books on the syllabus you didn't need and then Look at this youth
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Oct 14, 2015 22:08
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the rest
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Lotka Volterra posted:People keep posting "only 10 hours? That's amazing!" which misses the point. The point being that students should not be punished for being busy doing the actually important thing here - that is, getting an education. I agree with you but like I said, it's a total starting point so that when this plan (never) comes up in front of congress they can increase the requirement to 15 or 20 hours and feel like they got something. Also I don't know about characterizing state colleges as for-profit organizations.
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Oct 14, 2015 22:08
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Hollismason posted:Where do you work at 70 hours a week while going through to get your MBA? Like seriously where? Guy I know who did it had his own landscaping company.
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Oct 14, 2015 22:09
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showbiz_liz posted:Look at this youth Only works if the professor doesn't use those stupid additional learning modules you need a unique code for.
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Oct 14, 2015 22:10
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Brodeurs Nanny posted:An "affordable and realistic family contribution?" Nobody has pointed that out? Affordable and reasonable is a per-family thing. If your dad is a billionare he pays sticker, if your parents are penniless they pay nothing. This was obvious from context.
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Oct 14, 2015 22:10
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Hollismason posted:Where do you work at 70 hours a week while going through to get your MBA? Like seriously where? Could be an EMBA i guess
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Oct 14, 2015 22:10
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Lotka Volterra posted:People keep posting "only 10 hours? That's amazing!" which misses the point. The point being that students should not be punished for being busy doing the actually important thing here - that is, getting an education. "A 10 hours a week job should afford it" doesn't mean "you absolutely have to be working 10 hours every week or you're booted" dude. Working 40 hour weeks on your typical June to August summer break for a typical semester system school is the same amount of money as working 10 hours a week all year, and more money then working 10 hours a week each week during the school year. And it all amounts to the same thing "you should be able to afford college in full, tuition, fees, food, housing, with a very small amount of money".
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Oct 14, 2015 22:11
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zoux posted:Also I don't know about characterizing state colleges as for-profit organizations. While they are, I was thinking more that this would push a lot of students to get outside jobs as a university cannot realistically employ potentially 30k students unless over half of them are jobs doing your own homework.
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Oct 14, 2015 22:11
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Fried Chicken posted:Guy I know who did it had his own landscaping company. Was it an executive MBA? Because those things are pretty much mail in diplomas for people that can pony up $100k, take a "business trip class", and string some coherent sentences together for their online classes.
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Oct 14, 2015 22:12
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zen death robot posted:Yes the people agreeing in principle with "govt. pays for college" are fiscally conservative "College is free" and "You have to work to go to college because you're poor" are two different things. Making a class distinction is, well, classist. Nobody ever stopped to look around to see our grad school flooded by wealthy international students? Literally The Worst posted:so did you actually, and i can't believe i'm saying this, read zoux's post, where those ten hours a week would pay for your room and board? because that's a sweet fuckin deal considering how easy most campus jobs are. oh man i sat in the computer lab for a cuple hours three times a week, my dorm is paid for, woe is me I get it. You never had a college job on campus.
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Oct 14, 2015 22:13
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Bernie's campaign is reporting they raised $1.4m since the debate ended last night.
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Oct 14, 2015 22:13
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If you actually think working ten hours a week in college is too onerous and unjustified you are literally insane also it's gunna be a lot easier to get through congress than "college is literally free", and frankly, making students contribute to their education is a fantastic way of making them take that education seriously.
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Oct 14, 2015 22:15
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Hillary clearly took this one though. I don't care what the polls, focus groups, Google trends, and fundraising numbers say.
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Oct 14, 2015 22:15
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I think the obvious answer is 10 hours includes Civic Engagement. Also it could not be just a flat 10 hours per week but instead " You can do these ten hours a week or agree to work these 5 days for 8 hours a day then you've put in your requisite time for this semester". So basically for a 4 year degree set it so you can do community service or work at the university and set the total number of hours you have to do at like 960 hours for a 4 year degree. Then you are allowed to complete that service after 4 years. Expand that and the debt forgiveness program and your done. Job Truniht posted:"College is free" and "You have to work to go to college because you're poor" are two different things. Making a class distinction is, well, classist. Nobody ever stopped to look around to see our grad school flooded by wealthy international students? I am trying to get a college job on campus now because the Federal Student Work program doesn't count as income for disability so i can save to pay for more tuition.
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Oct 14, 2015 22:15
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Job Truniht posted:"College is free" and "You have to work to go to college because you're poor" are two different things. Making a class distinction is, well, classist. Nobody ever stopped to look around to see our grad school flooded by wealthy international students? To be fair, I would want to require even the children of billionaires to also work 10 hours a week, even if that just meant they were slacking off at daddies company as an intern. SERVICE GUARANTEES
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Oct 14, 2015 22:15
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Job Truniht posted:I'm glad you're supplanting your views on what's supposed to be morally correct thing to do as a poor person, but getting an MBA and getting your loving PhD in Aerospace are two different things. I work 70 hour weeks without a job requirement. Stop telling me how I'm not working hard enough. why are you ranting about your experience in grad school like an unhinged lunatic when what is being discussed is undergrad
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Oct 14, 2015 22:16
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"You say to somebody, you shouldn't go to work before you're what, 18, 20 years of age, fine," Mrs. Clinton said. "You're totally poor. You're in a college that is failing with a professor that is failing. I've tried for years to have a very simple model. Most of these colleges ought to get rid of the computer lab techs, have one master tech and pay local students to take care of the lab. The kids would actually do work, they would have tuition, they would have pride in the colleges, they'd begin the process of rising."
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Oct 14, 2015 22:16
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The Iron Rose posted:also it's gunna be a lot easier to get through congress than "college is literally free", and frankly, making students contribute to their education is a fantastic way of making them take that education seriously. You're concerned about the idea poor people don't take their education seriously? A Winner is Jew posted:To be fair, I would want to require even the children of billionaires to also work 10 hours a week, even if that just meant they were slacking off at daddies company as an intern. That's better.
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Oct 14, 2015 22:16
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Nintendo Kid posted:"A 10 hours a week job should afford it" doesn't mean "you absolutely have to be working 10 hours every week or you're booted" dude. Working 40 hour weeks on your typical June to August summer break for a typical semester system school is the same amount of money as working 10 hours a week all year, and more money then working 10 hours a week each week during the school year. This assumes a lot of things, still. A lot of kids go to summer school and not many places hire college students for 40 hours/wk anyway. I'd prefer the onus wasn't on the student to get a job as opposed to just saying "college education is a public good and we should make it available for everyone"
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Oct 14, 2015 22:17
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A Winner is Jew posted:Was it an executive MBA? Because those things are pretty much mail in diplomas for people that can pony up $100k, take a "business trip class", and string some coherent sentences together for their online classes. No, it was a standard one. I was doing a MIS at the time, we had some overlapping courses. I don't think our school did executive MBAs
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Oct 14, 2015 22:18
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FYI people there exists at least one college that's run on the "everything is free as long as you work 10 hours a week" model: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berea_College Lotka Volterra posted:This assumes a lot of things, still. A lot of kids go to summer school and not many places hire college students for 40 hours/wk anyway. In the current system, costs are so high that those sorts of students have to squeeze in 30-40 hours a week all year just to scrape by. In the new system, the costs would be reduced so much that they can significantly reduce their workload, if not drop it all together because there are a ton more families out there that can afford ~$3000 per kid per year then say the total of $40,000 you might rack up in just a year at a major state school these days. Even if the family can only toss in $500 say, that means that now that guy needs to only work like 9 hours a week year round on average to afford everything. And if the minium wage rises as well they'll need to work even less. This is how it works in most other countries: tuition is free, but you do incur costs related to going to school and it's very small amount you need to pay each year. Nintendo Kid fucked around with this message at 22:23 on Oct 14, 2015 |
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Oct 14, 2015 22:18
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Lotka Volterra posted:People keep posting "only 10 hours? That's amazing!" which misses the point. The point being that students should not be punished for being busy doing the actually important thing here - that is, getting an education. those campus jobs are the equivalent of a paid study hall a lot of the time. i used to work in the computer lab and it was basically just me doing my math homework and handing someone the stapler every now and then. Job Truniht posted:I get it. You never had a college job on campus. funny story, actually,
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Oct 14, 2015 22:18
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ozmunkeh posted:"You say to somebody, you shouldn't go to work before you're what, 18, 20 years of age, fine," Mrs. Clinton said. "You're totally poor. You're in a college that is failing with a professor that is failing. I've tried for years to have a very simple model. Most of these colleges ought to get rid of the computer lab techs, have one master tech and pay local students to take care of the lab. The kids would actually do work, they would have tuition, they would have pride in the colleges, they'd begin the process of rising." You know where else only had one master tech. Jurassic Park.
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Oct 14, 2015 22:18
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I am a person who has a disability and qualifies for federal disability payments and I am still working my way through school because I have no choice. A Expansiion of the federal student work program would be amazing.
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Oct 14, 2015 22:19
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Job Truniht posted:You're concerned about the idea poor people don't take their education seriously? The poor are very flippant with their education as is and if they aren't required to pay fir it like a responsible person, well that's just giving the horse his own reigns! Madness!
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Oct 14, 2015 22:19
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The 10/hrs per week seems to me to be more political than "this is the best, perfect version of this idea." It's not great but if it makes people more likely to go for it then I'm fine with that. Get rid of it later.
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Oct 14, 2015 22:19
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evilweasel posted:why are you ranting about your experience in grad school like an unhinged lunatic when what is being discussed is undergrad Seriously. Look at that scrub who couldn't find someone to pay for him to get an aerospace engineering PhD.
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Oct 14, 2015 22:19
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Job Truniht posted:You're concerned about the idea poor people don't take their education seriously? I see students who don't contribute to their own education fail to take that education seriously and ruin their future careers.
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Oct 14, 2015 22:19
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Literally The Worst posted:those campus jobs are the equivalent of a paid study hall a lot of the time. i used to work in the computer lab and it was basically just me doing my math homework and handing someone the stapler every now and then. I assume campus jobs won't/can't be made available to everyone at large state schools.
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Oct 14, 2015 22:20
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Fried Chicken posted:No, it was a standard one. I was doing a MIS at the time, we had some overlapping courses. I don't think our school did executive MBAs Yeah, when looking at programs we discovered those and found out that it's basically a ego stroking thing for if you own your own business or are a junior executive at a large firm you want to stay at but can't move up without a masters but don't want to actually put in any effort. My wife has had 1-2 overlapping classes with them (electives only of course) and they're pretty much all Lumbergs.
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Oct 14, 2015 22:21
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evilweasel posted:why are you ranting about your experience in grad school like an unhinged lunatic when what is being discussed is undergrad It's almost like I was poor when I went to undergrad and got federal students loans to get through, and I have a distinct hatred of people who had their careers handed to them talk down to other people on how hard they should be working.
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Oct 14, 2015 22:23
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Job Truniht posted:It's almost like I was poor when I went to undergrad and got federal students loans to get through, and I have a distinct hatred of people who had their careers handed to them talk down to other people on how hard they should be working. good news, i'm none of those things
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Oct 14, 2015 22:24
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You should have worked harder to get scholarships and you wouldn't have loans.
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Oct 14, 2015 22:25
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Lotka Volterra posted:I assume campus jobs won't/can't be made available to everyone at large state schools. There are always minor tasks that are "worth doing". Do poo poo like keep the computer labs open later get the night owl students to cover the extra shifts. It results in a school that's more useful. And the increased enrollment is probably going to drive expansion and new campuses, and that'll open a lot of new student jobs to handle.
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Oct 14, 2015 22:25
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Job Truniht posted:It's almost like I was poor when I went to undergrad and got federal students loans to get through, and I have a distinct hatred of people who had their careers handed to them talk down to other people on how hard they should be working. if that was what you were doing you'd have talked about your experience at undergrad not your current hours i think that you didn't work hard enough in college at reading because you are a shiftless poor and your bad habits have carried forward
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Oct 14, 2015 22:27
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Literally The Worst posted:those campus jobs are the equivalent of a paid study hall a lot of the time. i used to work in the computer lab and it was basically just me doing my math homework and handing someone the stapler every now and then. I had a campus job for a few years and I literally just sat in the art gallery for a few hours every week and counted how many people came in. I was also expected to tell people not to touch the work but everybody knew better already so I never had to. Most of the time it was just doing homework. Unless you're doing deliveries or something you mostly are just expected to be present so nobody would steal anything.
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Oct 14, 2015 22:28
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Nintendo Kid posted:There are always minor tasks that are "worth doing". Do poo poo like keep the computer labs open later get the night owl students to cover the extra shifts. It results in a school that's more useful. hell, put the students to work building the new campus, cut down on labor costs tremendously. won't even need heavy machinery if you get enough of them.
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Oct 14, 2015 22:28
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The Iron Rose posted:I see students who don't contribute to their own education fail to take that education seriously and ruin their future careers. This was actually me oddly enough. Not that a lack of education has stifled me or anything since being a white male from an upper middle class family has been amazing. Job Truniht posted:It's almost like I was poor when I went to undergrad and got federal students loans to get through, and I have a distinct hatred of people who had their careers handed to them talk down to other people on how hard they should be working. Cool. I loving hate engineers that are fresh out of school and can't make a coherent design per specifications/code since they have literally zero work experience or how a set of drawings are even suppose to look. Seriously, I make an obscene amount of money fixing the mistakes/streamlining the production process for dumb-rear end engineers.
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Oct 14, 2015 22:28
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I'm kind of surprised people are getting hung up on this 10 hours thing, it's a pretty minor provision.
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Oct 14, 2015 22:29
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A Winner is Jew posted:Cool. I loving hate engineers that are fresh out of school and can't make a coherent design per specifications/code since they have literally zero work experience or how a set of drawings are even suppose to look. Work experience has nothing to do with an understanding of theory. Most don't understand the theory. zoux posted:I'm kind of surprised people are getting hung up on this 10 hours thing, it's a pretty minor provision. Then why are you actually defending it? evilweasel posted:i think that you didn't work hard enough in college at reading because you are a shiftless poor and your bad habits have carried forward I'm glad your contempt is coming out. Thanks for that shithead.
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Oct 14, 2015 22:31
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