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NutritiousSnack posted:This talk would get you banned on RPG.net It's kind of sad when I can honestly say I prefer the forum moderation on SA over the forum moderation on RPG.net.
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Oct 14, 2015 06:56
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Why would the forums who has Moderators from the Exalted Team ban criticism of Exalted? It's a mysteryyyyy....
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Oct 14, 2015 06:59
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Didn't the layout editor, Maria, get contracted out specifically to do this? Paid cash money to hash this giant manuscript? I think there is more behind the scenes going on.
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Oct 14, 2015 07:05
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Ketrus posted:and hasn't paid any of its actual workers a dime I'm not necessarily going to disagree with the other bits, or even the notion that the way the whole process has been done couldn't use some improvements. But do we actually know OP hasn't paid the writers a 'dime' or is this just the popular meme that this thread keeps repeating with zero evidence? Because it's completely contrary to the way OP does their payments on literally everything else. I know I've brought this up multiple times but I'm just opposing the spread of disinformation on principle. It might be fair to say that OP owes their writers money (they probably do, since half of their payments, depending on contract, will ship with the final product) but I think it's unfair to say the work has gone unpaid for.
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Oct 14, 2015 08:25
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If you're owed money you haven't been paid yet. As far as I'm aware, they don't get paid until they ship it. Which is why OP isn't that bothered by how long it takes. If they were on an hourly rate this would have come out about a year ago.
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Oct 14, 2015 08:45
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Fans posted:If you're owed money you haven't been paid yet. No (or very few) employers of freelancers pay on an hourly rate. I'm asking because I don't know. I don't know, but I have dealt with OP before and they typically pay you half of your money for your draft, and half when the completed project is made available for sale. While I agree that that money should be paid and it's probably shameful that it hasn't been, it's hyperbole to assert that they haven't been paid at all, ever, not a single dime. And asserting hyperbole like it's true quickly becomes fact if nobody challenges it. I recognize this is quibbling because I agree with most of the other points. Mendrian fucked around with this message at 08:57 on Oct 14, 2015 |
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Oct 14, 2015 08:53
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Nessus posted:Possibilities occured to me that include "the firm that does their books can't do them in time, so these delays provide an explanation" or "basically that but with some kind of money-related issue." I'm pretty sure this is what's really going on. I can't really believe that the Pages XX are taking a month, even if they are done by highly incompetent people, which whatever they might be, OPP is not after years of publishing books. Every update is written in a way that seems like progress is being made, but it's usually the same task they mentioned last week. edit: and if not and the book is really just missing the page XX then they are a bunch of assholes by not releasing the preview PDF to the backers that have been waiting for two loving years. Hugoon Chavez fucked around with this message at 09:05 on Oct 14, 2015 |
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Oct 14, 2015 08:57
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So what happens if someone brings up this amazing incompetence on a forum the developers actually read? Shouted down by fans? Banned? I'm too lazy to go digging but presumably someone has seen something interesting.
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Oct 14, 2015 09:14
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Hugoon Chavez posted:I'm pretty sure this is what's really going on. I can't really believe that the Pages XX are taking a month, even if they are done by highly incompetent people, which whatever they might be, OPP is not after years of publishing books. Every update is written in a way that seems like progress is being made, but it's usually the same task they mentioned last week.
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Oct 14, 2015 09:22
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Roadie posted:It's kind of sad when I can honestly say I prefer the forum moderation on SA over the forum moderation on RPG.net. I have yet to hear of an rpg.net moderator going to prison for child molestation, though 
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Oct 14, 2015 17:22
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People criticise OPP on RPGnet all the time, though. You just can't phrase your criticism as an insult directed at the people who work on their games.
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Oct 14, 2015 18:14
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Rand Brittain posted:People criticise OPP on RPGnet all the time, though. You just can't phrase your criticism as an insult directed at the people who work on their games. Isn't that just because "you can't insult people, period" though?
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Oct 14, 2015 18:32
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Ketrus posted:This is why I don't blame Holden, Maria, or any of the grunts in the slightest. The game developers and writers are being paid by wordcount, after the product is released. That one of them is being gang-pressed into doing page references is an absolute embarrassment, one even worse than the fact that this product is two years late and hasn't paid any of its actual workers a dime. Internet opinions time, Richard Thomas should be ashamed of himself. There's obviously a lot of talent and love invested in this project, but he's managed it absolutely horribly. Maybe consider paying someone a few hundred bucks to use layout software to take the pagerefs out of Holden's hands? You've got two years worth of interest from the writers' share of that $684,755 kickstarter. That should cover it. Doing 25+ decisive damage to a battle group from Join Battle is absolutely worth keeping. What needs a second look, I think, is Increasing Strength Exercise. Seriously. What is with that charm.
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Oct 14, 2015 18:50
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Holden has at least said multiple times he has not gotten paid for 3E. If you believe him or not is your own thing, but I'm inclined to believe him. They don't get paid until the very end, according to him. Similarly, Holden is technically not allowed to moderate Exalted threads on RPG.net. Now obviously despite this the discourse is going to be significantly different involving his work when he has a signature that talks about how he is a mod even if he isn't allowed to, but that's a different thing, while the OPP forums are in fact mostly an echo chamber, that has more to do with the people who frequent them (Holden also hates most of them too which makes it amusing). Similarly, while I don't really know what has made the project so late, and a lot of the stuff they seem to be having trouble with is stuff that seems easy, I DO know that there are some things about the book I don't like that I can think Holden and Hatewheel have issues continuing, but my attempt is to not let that make me blame them for the book or the lovely 'PR' that has been given to it. That, I mostly blame on Rich Thomas, who very clearly hates Exalted fans at this point; I am not sure if WoD fans on the Official Forums are like, nicer or something, but a lot of the time it seems that he really just despises the people who play Exalted, or maybe just Exalted itself, a lot; see his reaction to stuff like the Fiction Anthology, where he attempted to make people less angry with 'when we did this with other groups they didn't complain so shut up'. It's all about knowing what's actually an individual person's fault on stuff like this; I agree with Ketrus that the fact Rich (Maybe? Maybe not? Who knows, really who did it?) got Holden, who according to himself still hasn't been paid, to do all the cross referencing and poo poo over someone assigned to that is crazy. Plus, it's not like they're benefiting from the project being late. Like that's the thing that always gets me when we go into the whole 'complain about how the book isn't out' stuff, or complaints about crafting or whatever. Holden and Hatewheel aren't directly trying to sabotage the line or whatever, and attributing the book being late or Crafting being miserable to some sort of 'We're going to sink Exalted' stance is kind of weird and a little insulting. I'm sure they'd love for the book to be out now, too, so they can get paid or whatever.
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Oct 14, 2015 18:58
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Bedlamdan posted:I have yet to hear of an rpg.net moderator going to prison for child molestation, though They don't have star trek threads on rpg.net either.
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Oct 14, 2015 22:27
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Bedlamdan posted:I have yet to hear of an rpg.net moderator going to prison for child molestation, though OH gently caress YASE A MOTHERSHITTING AATREK JOKE
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Oct 14, 2015 23:36
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TheLovablePlutonis posted:OH gently caress YASE A MOTHERSHITTING AATREK JOKE nvr 4get
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Oct 14, 2015 23:51
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Mendrian posted:No (or very few) employers of freelancers pay on an hourly rate. That's a fair point, and I apologize. My source for that are the various nishkriya posts I've read over the past three years (jesus christ), which isn't necessary conclusive or all-encompassing. All I really know on that point is that devs expressed frustration with the speculation that they stretched out the development time for financial reasons. The response to that accusation was the claim they get paid by the word, not the hour, and that they don't get paid until release, so there's actually a financial disincentive to delay. Obviously angry internet posts do not contain the complete details of contract arrangements; they may or may not be true; they may or may not apply to everyone involved. There are better things for the rest of us to complain about.
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Oct 15, 2015 00:09
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I just want Exalted to come out before my birthday in November.
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Oct 15, 2015 00:15
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TheLovablePlutonis posted:OH gently caress YASE A MOTHERSHITTING AATREK JOKE A really puzzling one, too, unless I'm to understand that someone suddenly realized that rpg.net was being moderated by the developers of the games under discussion and responded by promptly demodding those people.
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Oct 15, 2015 00:22
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SunAndSpring posted:I just want Exalted to come out before my birthday in November.
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Oct 15, 2015 00:23
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Exalted needs to come out on Christmas day exactly.
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Oct 15, 2015 00:24
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Tbh the RPG.net people should be demodded too after they banned one dude for the contents of a private message sent to another dude who was cool with whatever was inside it.
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Oct 15, 2015 00:33
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Chernobyl Peace Prize posted:How many more Novembers you plan on living through I don't want to answer this question in case it somehow jinxes me to die exactly on whatever made up date I say as a joke
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Oct 15, 2015 00:35
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Bedlamdan posted:Tbh the RPG.net people should be demodded too after they banned one dude for the contents of a private message sent to another dude who was cool with whatever was inside it. They're just want to ban all the wrongthinkers and frankly, you're making a big deal about nothing.
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Oct 15, 2015 00:38
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Bedlamdan posted:Tbh the RPG.net people should be demodded too after they banned one dude for the contents of a private message sent to another dude who was cool with whatever was inside it. Wasnt that Holden
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Oct 15, 2015 00:38
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Ferrinus posted:Exalted needs to come out on Christmas day exactly. Dies Natalis Solis Invicti
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Oct 15, 2015 00:39
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Oh so they do half for the draft and half on release? Well that walks back my annoyance with the company significantly. Frankly I would've expected thirds. What I think makes this particularly galling is that some of the stretch goals for the drat book were "pay increases of an unclear percentage amount." Nessus fucked around with this message at 00:44 on Oct 15, 2015 |
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Oct 15, 2015 00:40
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TheLovablePlutonis posted:Wasnt that Holden Yes, and this way he has more opportunity to write poo poo I like, rather than banning people for talking about poo poo he doesn't like.
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Oct 15, 2015 00:41
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Nihnoz posted:They're just want to ban all the wrongthinkers and frankly, you're making a big deal about nothing. Do you want some fee-fees with that freeze peach?
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Oct 15, 2015 03:23
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Ferrinus posted:Exalted needs to come out on Christmas day exactly. April 1st, 2016
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Oct 15, 2015 16:41
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Bedlamdan posted:Tbh the RPG.net people should be demodded too after they banned one dude for the contents of a private message sent to another dude who was cool with whatever was inside it. What?
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Oct 16, 2015 18:16
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Stormgale posted:What? http://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?767812-Infraction-for-End-Transmission-17%29-Permanent-Ban&s=c70b4396a0915a83c7dfff61327cbcc7
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Oct 16, 2015 18:23
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Bedlamdan posted:http://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?767812-Infraction-for-End-Transmission-17%29-Permanent-Ban&s=c70b4396a0915a83c7dfff61327cbcc7 lmfao
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Oct 16, 2015 18:26
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I don't think RPGnet is going to apologize for banning goobergators (also mods can't see PMs unless somebody reports them).
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Oct 16, 2015 18:27
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Rand Brittain posted:I don't think RPGnet is going to apologize for banning goobergators (also mods can't see PMs unless somebody reports them). Well that's at least a little less Orwellian.
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Oct 16, 2015 18:28
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Rand Brittain posted:I don't think RPGnet is going to apologize for banning goobergators (also mods can't see PMs unless somebody reports them). I think the RPGnet mods tend to be way too desperate to find offense when modding, but the particular case of End Transmission reads like a classic example of "guy is an rear end in threads and then when told to stop being an rear end in threads starts being an rear end in private messages".
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Oct 16, 2015 18:44
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Frankly I think there's a lot that Gamergate can teach us about Exalted -- and vice versa! Firstly,
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Oct 16, 2015 18:54
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If we want to learn about Exalted, we need look no further than Mage: the Awakening, the game about the war between the petty, entitled, unhinged Exalted fandom and the distant, secretive, and conceited Exalted development team.
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Oct 16, 2015 18:58
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Well all I heard was "Holden banned someone over PMs" and I believed it uncritically because apparently the Exalted people apparently can't do anything right \  /
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Oct 16, 2015 19:01
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