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My opinion is that Law is a good and cool character. Also,
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Oct 14, 2015 18:11
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yeah, law being a "serious, super cool guy" basically pulled straight out of another anime, then taken down to the strawhats level is what makes him funny as hell.
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Oct 14, 2015 18:16
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DizzyBum posted:My opinion is that Law is a good and cool character. Also, lol he basically even has the akatsuki coat on
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Oct 14, 2015 18:18
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Kild posted:lol he basically even has the akatsuki coat on Well yes. It was an island of snow. Of course he had a coat on, it's quite cold. Everyone does.
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Oct 14, 2015 18:19
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One of the next panels with very determined looking Chopper dangling from his sword is one of my favorites. I really like that Law abandoned his crew to pal around with the Strawhats for a bit.
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Oct 14, 2015 18:27
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Waffleman_ posted:Well yes. 
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Oct 14, 2015 18:45
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anime was right posted:yeah, law being a "serious, super cool guy" basically pulled straight out of another anime, then taken down to the strawhats level is what makes him funny as hell. I've had this running theory for awhile now that one of the central themes of One Piece is the triumph of fun and friendship over adolescent cynical "badassery", which I think bears out in the fights versus Kuro and to a lesser extent Rob Lucci (who has some goofy qualities but sheds them to become a one dimensional murderous psychopath). The way Oda uses Law kind of fits that theory as well.
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Oct 14, 2015 20:05
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DizzyBum posted:My opinion is that Law is a good and cool character. Also, 
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Oct 14, 2015 22:14
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That might be the best single panel ever. In Punk Hazard when Ussop had to sit Law down and explain to him how an alliance with Luffy actually works was pretty great, and the overall realization that he's made a deal with an unstoppable force One of the underrated moments in Dressrosa was Luffy on the radio with everyone, basically deciding if was time to cut the bullshit, lets tear down the whole country and its Army, oh and Sanji go ahead and take on an Emperor.
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Oct 15, 2015 01:20
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Even when Law's not with the Strawhats, one of his own crewmembers is a talking bear who apologises too much and gets depressed because he can't find any female bears I don't think he's indicative of the series becoming too serious
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Oct 15, 2015 01:29
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Law is great, I don't need to see him in every arc for the rest of the series or anything but I hope he sticks around until this Kaido business is taken care of at least.
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Oct 15, 2015 02:24
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here's an article about why scanlations are bad (saved you a click: it's because of swears and shichibukai/nakama/yonkou). the most interesting part is the difference in visual quality between official and scanlations:    also the article writer uses bartolomeo in like 3/4ths of the "excessive swears" category uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
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Oct 15, 2015 03:22
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TORA FUJI
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Oct 15, 2015 03:26
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Zolo
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Oct 15, 2015 03:30
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A lot of that article is spot on (The overuse of random Japanese terms is a bit of a bugbear of mine), but I'd sure like if one of these kinds of article for once actually provided any evidence or statistics whatsoever on how piracy hurts the consumer instead of just insisting no it totally does guys, come on. It's just bad science. The little bit about Bart and Law's exchange about the poster is, however completely subjective and seems to be kind of arguing against the previous point about using shichibukai and such a little, which kind of muddles the thrust of the article a little I think. I may just be bitter as these guys started a One Piece podcast before I could and I'll never forgive that.
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Oct 15, 2015 03:38
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KoB posted:Zolo I can't do it. I just can't do it. This is honestly a major factor in me reading official translations. I can figure out what someone meant by "Colosseum Forces" but everyone on the ship calling Zoro, "Zolo" is too much for me.
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Oct 15, 2015 03:38
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Just walk down to the kinokuniya and buy/read them in the original Japanese like me. 
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Oct 15, 2015 03:45
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Sure, they provide an objectively superior product in pretty much every way, BUT THERE'S AN L, YOU GUYS!  I don't like Zolo either, but it's an incredibly minor quibble and the benefits far outweigh one L. Waffleman_ fucked around with this message at 03:49 on Oct 15, 2015 |
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Oct 15, 2015 03:46
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Ha ha ha holy poo poo those comments. I literally cannot take anyone who even entertains the notions that "something is lost when translating nakama to something else" seriously at all. And this is coming from a guy who likes the usage of -senpai in Persona. poo poo idiots actually think. quote:- On stuff like Nakama, I think it's important not because it supposedly doesn't translate, but because of the meaning it's taken on for the fans. (Also Enel is a much better name than Eneru [is that a controversial topic with this podcast or something?], even Ener would have been a good compromise.) quote:While I do agree that using the term "four emperors" to replace the term "yonkou" and "seven warlords" to replace "shichibukai' do make sense and are perfectly reasonable, changing up the nakama to different meaning like "friends" or "crew" or "family" or whatever does exactly what you argue the scanlations are doing, which is changing up the original translations to make it sound good or give it flair. "At least I still have my crew" does NOT have the same impact as saying "at least I have my nakama", or "At least I have my friends/comrades". Impact is indeed lost when you change nakama to crew, it just is. quote:The way it's used in the series, translating the word 'nakama' to friends or crew mates lessens the meaning behind it. You might as well use family considering how deep the bond is between Luffy and his crew. I don't really see a problem with leaving the word untranslated. quote:Also the OPP deal with the use of nakama is insane, in english the word has other meanings friend or crewmate. Which arent as interchangeable in english as friend has more impact for us emotionly. Translators try to guess odas use of the word when luffy says it and thats just as bad as when scanlators do it for other words as youve just said. Imo again, nakama is a better word to use but as you correctly state its not proper translation but its more accurate as long as you know what the work nakama really means. Also the first time the jp word is used in a series it is normally explained.
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Oct 15, 2015 03:51
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I regularly use tovarish in conversation, and I feel that using comrade instead would make my weekly communist revolutionary meetings lose a little bit of pizzaz.
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Oct 15, 2015 03:57
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Even if there was a deeper meaning behind the word nakama, that meaning will never be retained in an English translation simply by virtue of nakama being a Japanese word. An average English speaker isn't even going to understand the superficial meaning of it, let alone any deeper meaning WHICH THERE IS NOT. Edit: It's really a case of nerds having to make every loving thing they like into a secret club where no newcomers are allowed. "Oh, you don't understand the deeper implications of the word nakama? Better study up.  "
Waffleman_ fucked around with this message at 03:59 on Oct 15, 2015 |
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Oct 15, 2015 03:57
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I love it when I'm reading a book about superpowered pirates for 12 year olds and manchildren and I have to go on google to spend an hour educating myself on the subtler nuances of a language spoken by one country on the other side of the planet. It's the same thing that made me love reading Chaucer as a 13 year old boy. My never having a girlfriend in high school and multiple weekly nose breakages were a complete coincidence.
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Oct 15, 2015 04:00
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Good words. Companions. Comrades. Friends. Crew. Family. Bros. I feel like this nakama bullshit and swearing is more of your average fan not having a wide-enough vocabulary.
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Oct 15, 2015 04:03
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ZepiaEltnamOberon posted:Good words. You're not my nakama.
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Oct 15, 2015 04:08
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Cloks posted:You're not my nakama. I'm not your nakama, tomodachi.
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Oct 15, 2015 04:08
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The nakama thing is also dumb because One Piece uses clear visual language to convey how the characters feel about one another. When Nami stumbles in the village in tears because Arlong just dashed her hopes of saving everyone and Luffy puts his hat, his most treasured material possession in the entire world, on her head and asks her if she wants him to make everything better without even knowing the full extent of her problems and she says "Yes" and trusts him to do so, I don't need some weird exotic word to tell me they're friends on a deeper level than most people.
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Oct 15, 2015 04:09
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Cloks posted:You're not my nakama. ZepiaEltnamOberon posted:All of you are my nakama.
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Oct 15, 2015 04:12
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Waffleman_ posted:I'm not your nakama, tomodachi. Don't call me tomodachi, aibou!
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Oct 15, 2015 04:12
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 Probably my favourite translation ever tbh
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Oct 15, 2015 04:12
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I still remember the day. The most popular One Piece fansub group, who put out the most consistently excellent sub job for anime episodes, Kaizoku-Fansubs, put out an episode somewhere around the Arlong arc, (when the word was going to start being used a lot) where a title card described their choice to leave the word untranslated. It was pretty much unprecedented to my knowledge. I don't recall any other sub groups making this kind of artistic decision. And frankly, I stand behind it. Now what it has become is a different story. It's a major theme of the arc - Arlong calls Nami "his" nakama, like she's his friend/crewmate/etc, but Luffy corrects him, that she's actually their nakama. He says this even though she's currently considered a member of the Arlong pirates. This is one of the reasons I support the distinction. It would, at the very least, be awkward in English to use any other word in that situation. No, "friend" doesn't work. Because Arlong doesn't consider Nami a friend. She's someone who works for him. No, "crewmate" doesn't work, (in this exact situation and almost no others) because Nami is undeniably a member of the Arlong pirates. So Luffy saying, "she's MY crewmate!" makes him sound like an idiot. She had been travelling with them, but she was in no way a member of the Strawhats, nor did she pretend to be. KF also addressed the idea of "comrade" or "mate" just sounds weird. And whether you believe it personally or not, myself and lots of other fans felt it was actually less awkward to take in the information about the lack of translation up front, and then experience the scene in the map room in Arlong Park. It's a dramatic scene, and we didn't have time to have a big paragraph explaining things, and obviously I've already discussed why translating it was not an option. Now, it's actually gotten pretty out of hand since then, the word didn't need to remain untranslated forever. When Luffy is reminded about his crew by Rayleigh after Ace's death, "That's right... I still have my friends/crew!" would have worked perfectly. I believe we still got "nakama" for that one, which is dumb. I don't remember if the word got use during Enies Lobby, but depending on the context of the scene, crewmate or friend probably would have worked there as well. The distinction is really only important when you're discussing two parties arguing over the meaning of the word, such as Luffy and Arlong do. Basically what I'm trying to say is, it's not all weebs trying to preserve the glorious nippon language and all its complex subtleties, there was a time and a place for it and frankly, it deeply enhanced my enjoyment of the arc. It's probably why I look so fondly upon One Piece as a whole, and it's ability to pull at my emotions. This has been a history lesson from a guy who's been reading this poo poo for way too long. Advice fucked around with this message at 04:16 on Oct 15, 2015 |
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Oct 15, 2015 04:13
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comrade is a loving choice as hell word.
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Oct 15, 2015 04:16
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Couldn't they just have gone with Arlong saying something like "she belongs to us" and Luffy saying "no, she belongs with us" or "no, she's one of us" something like that.
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Oct 15, 2015 04:16
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ZepiaEltnamOberon posted:Don't call me tomodachi, aibou! I ain't your aibou, aniki!
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Oct 15, 2015 04:17
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ZepiaEltnamOberon posted:Couldn't they just have gone with Arlong saying something like "she belongs to us" and Luffy saying "no, she belongs with us" or "no, she's one of us" something like that. Yes.
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Oct 15, 2015 04:17
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I mean, I'm not gonna retroactively poo poo on translators cause I think translations and scanlations have come a long way (and because I'm a translator myself and the thought of tackling something like a comic is beyond my current capabilities), but defending words cause of perceived nostalgia doesn't seem really meaningful. They could have done better. They didn't, and I don't blame them for that, because they were in the early stages and still developing and growing. But that doesn't excuse defending the usage of the word.
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Oct 15, 2015 04:20
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Just kidding, you're all my friendos. Chums.
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Oct 15, 2015 04:21
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ZepiaEltnamOberon posted:I mean, I'm not gonna retroactively poo poo on translators I'm willing to do this
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Oct 15, 2015 04:23
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Adlai Stevenson posted:I'm willing to do this If I did that I'd have to despair at the work I did 1 year ago. I am more than fully willing to poo poo on translators who do poo poo work in the present like a good deal of freelancers I have to deal with.
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Oct 15, 2015 04:24
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Cloks posted:Just kidding, you're all my friendos. I couldn't even save a single amigo!
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Oct 15, 2015 04:25
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ZepiaEltnamOberon posted:Couldn't they just have gone with Arlong saying something like "she belongs to us" and Luffy saying "no, she belongs with us" or "no, she's one of us" something like that. Sure, that probably could have worked. Is that exactly what Arlong says? No. He's saying Nami is his <friend>, because he thinks she loves money more than anything and they have a great relationship. Nami is a part of his crew and has been, willingly as far as Arlong knows, for a long time. The whole idea of that exchange is Luffy telling Arlong that he's wrong and Nami is unhappy. Hindsight is 20/20 but the nakama debaucle exists because a group of kids who translated One Piece over a decade ago wanted to stress the importance of a chosen word and it's relevance to the current arc and really, One Piece as a whole. It's as important as the concept of Inherited Will. Since "inherited will" is sort of an awkwardly worded phrase that you don't hear too often in English, they might well have changed that as well to something stupid. I'm glad they didn't. And while there may not be beautiful subtleties to every language, it's equally ignorant to assume that every word in every language can be easily swapped around and changed for any other word when translating to a foreign language with no lost meaning or intent. Whatever, let's all just go back to jerking each other off about how dumb "dem weebs" are.
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Oct 15, 2015 04:25
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