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The issue exists because ten years ago fan translators didn't know how to translate a particular word and a lot of people latched onto it because the releases were their primary and/or first exposure to a series they grew to love.
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Oct 15, 2015 04:28
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Advice posted:It's a major theme of the arc - Arlong calls Nami "his" nakama, like she's his friend/crewmate/etc, but Luffy corrects him, that she's actually their nakama. He says this even though she's currently considered a member of the Arlong pirates. This is one of the reasons I support the distinction. It would, at the very least, be awkward in English to use any other word in that situation. No, "friend" doesn't work. Because Arlong doesn't consider Nami a friend. She's someone who works for him. No, "crewmate" doesn't work, (in this exact situation and almost no others) because Nami is undeniably a member of the Arlong pirates. So Luffy saying, "she's MY crewmate!" makes him sound like an idiot. Luffy is an idiot.
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Oct 15, 2015 04:35
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oddium posted:here's an article about why scanlations are bad (saved you a click: it's because of swears and shichibukai/nakama/yonkou). the most interesting part is the difference in visual quality between official and scanlations: I read this article this morning and the first thing that almost made me stop reading was how he claims scanlations hurt the studio and artist because you don't buy a physical copy. That may be true for lesser manga, but multi-millionaire Eiichiro Oda couldn't care less and would be happy more people are enjoying One Piece. He does have a point in how certain words aren't translated still (nakama withstanding) like Shichibukai when Seven Warlords works just as well, or any attack name (just put the translation in the bubble and the original in a note! this is a huge peeve of mine). The bit about colloquialisms is a tough one to call since the true meaning is so easy to lose, but it's not like discussing politics where you need exact meaning. Last, the bit about spoilers is silly because the best way to avoid spoilers is to consume the media as quickly as possible, even if the translation is spotty. I mean, Luffy punching a world noble at Sabaody wouldn't have been so satisfying and impactful if you knew beforehand that he was going to do it. You can always read the official release to get the "official" translation in case an important detail was missed.
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Oct 15, 2015 04:39
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Shoren posted:I read this article this morning and the first thing that almost made me stop reading was how he claims scanlations hurt the studio and artist because you don't buy a physical copy. That may be true for lesser manga, but multi-millionaire Eiichiro Oda couldn't care less and would be happy more people are enjoying One Piece. More than Oda get paid from the sales of One Piece. Shoren posted:Last, the bit about spoilers is silly because the best way to avoid spoilers is to consume the media as quickly as possible, even if the translation is spotty. The best way to avoid spoilers is to dodge the sources of spoilers. If your routines are so entrenched in the internet that you can't avoid spoilers then maybe take a step or two back from the computer. Basically you're saying that second-rate translations are best because you can't take your eyes away from spoilers and you don't think you should support the people that make it possible for you to read what you enjoy. hmm Adlai Stevenson fucked around with this message at 06:30 on Oct 15, 2015 |
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Oct 15, 2015 04:46
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I remember that Kaizoku-Fansubs episode all too well. I've grown since then, but I was a vehement supporter of "nakama" over actual translations for a good while after that with solely those title cards to back up my arguments. It was a rough time to be me on ye olde GameFAQs forums.
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Oct 15, 2015 04:47
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Cipher Pol 9 posted:I remember that Kaizoku-Fansubs episode all too well. I've grown since then, but I was a vehement supporter of "nakama" over actual translations for a good while after that with solely those title cards to back up my arguments. It was a rough time to be me on ye olde GameFAQs forums. I remember the explanation when I first saw it, and I thought it was bullshit then. Just from it's usage it was quite clear that Nakima wasn't some strange Japanese concept that my dumb English brain just couldn't grasp the nuance of. It was simply a word that English used several different words to convey in different situation, based on the usage I saw. This is true of almost any word left untranslated that isn't an actual Japanese thing, like sake or sushi. Really though, it's a minor hill when there is the scourge of loving honorifics that to this day threaten the very concept of translation. Translate that poo poo, bro. Nobody gives a poo poo about the delicate social hierarchy conveyed through the usage of Japanese honorifics that don't mean poo poo to me. I really don't care if he says -chan but she says -sama, it's tossing in useless and unneeded information into a translation that I'm already having to spend extra time trying to decipher. So drop it unless it has actual bearing on the story, which it does not 99.99999999999999% of the time. I wonder if the German translators tried to pull the Nakama bullshit.
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Oct 15, 2015 05:00
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There's a case to be made for honorifics though. It's just a lot of the time, translation can write around that by altering dialogue to fit the particular context, though every now and then, you get the curveball of a character dropping honorifics and this being a significant thing. Usually that's something reserved for romcoms and dramas though.
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Oct 15, 2015 05:15
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Allarion posted:There's a case to be made for honorifics though. It's just a lot of the time, translation can write around that by altering dialogue to fit the particular context, though every now and then, you get the curveball of a character dropping honorifics and this being a significant thing. Usually that's something reserved for romcoms and dramas though. Thank you for your post... Allarion-sama.
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Oct 15, 2015 05:16
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oddium posted:here's an article about why scanlations are bad (saved you a click: it's because of swears and shichibukai/nakama/yonkou). the most interesting part is the difference in visual quality between official and scanlations: Scanlators are beyond fucktarded.
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Oct 15, 2015 05:21
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Sometimes I hear "nakama" in different anime and it's always translated as friend so that whole deeper meaning argument never really carried much weight to me. Overuse of swearing is an issue but certain characters, like Bart, are better off being more vulgar. Dude literally took a piss in the middle of a battle royal off the side of the ring. The reason him being a Luffy fanboy was as neat of a twist as it was is because he's introduced as this foul mouthed jackass who's just super abrasive to everyone he interacts with, so we all assumed he'd be another new rival, but then nope. Anyway, Luffy saying "I'll kick that bastard's rear end" is fine, for me, but I will admit when he starts dropping f-bombs that's kind of unwarranted and out of character. It's all a matter of context I guess. Zoro and Sanji arguing and calling each other some kind of name that involves poo poo or gently caress? Sure I can see it. Nami telling them off for it and dropping that same kind of language? Not as easy to picture.
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Oct 15, 2015 05:21
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ZepiaEltnamOberon posted:Thank you for your post... Allarion-sama. I'm glad we both know where we stand, senpai. TriffTshngo posted:Sometimes I hear "nakama" in different anime and it's always translated as friend so that whole deeper meaning argument never really carried much weight to me. It stood out to me in Dissidia when they kept calling each other nakama, and it was translated as friend. In that particular case, I didn't really agree with that translation since I do think comrade would have been better since it's 10 strangers suddenly having to work together.
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Oct 15, 2015 05:29
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Allarion posted:I'm glad we both know where we stand, senpai. 
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Oct 15, 2015 05:35
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The concept of nakamas / friendship is of thematic importance in one piece. If you translate it as Friend and keep it consistent it will carry the same weight. When people hit up the thesaurus it weakens the thematic impact. A good example is when Luffy declares his fight against Aarlong for Nami. "She is my FRIEND" is way more poignant than crew mate, broette, whatever. That is what matters. It's not "nakama can't be translated". If you wanna keep the word that way to emphasize the thematic importance and weight of the word, ok. A lot of fan translators miss this point. Conversely, people who insist that leaving certain words untranslated for flavor is some kind of translation high sin are dummies too. Crap. I wrote words on the nakama debate. This is your fault, thead.
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Oct 15, 2015 06:11
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Advice posted:This has been a history lesson from a guy who's been reading this poo poo for way too long.
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Oct 15, 2015 06:38
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Nakama = matey! C'mon, it makes sense in a manga about pirates.
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Oct 15, 2015 07:25
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i thought nakama just meant "member of my group". oda needs more assistants or something so he doesnt work himself to death
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Oct 15, 2015 07:33
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Advice posted:This is one of the reasons I support the distinction. It would, at the very least, be awkward in English to use any other word in that situation. No, "friend" doesn't work. Because Arlong doesn't consider Nami a friend. She's someone who works for him. No, "crewmate" doesn't work, (in this exact situation and almost no others) because Nami is undeniably a member of the Arlong pirates. So Luffy saying, "she's MY crewmate!" makes him sound like an idiot. this is complete bull as that was the whole point, arlong says she's in his crew but luffy says no she's actually in my crew because i said so and she never said she was out to my face. It's the same reason he chased robin to the gates of the marine HQ once luffy says you're in the crew nothing you do short of explicitly telling him to his face gets you out and hell even then it's kindof a 50/50 on if he belives you, also he actually is an idiot.
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Oct 15, 2015 07:38
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i saw 50 new posts and thought there had been an incredible new chapter and now its not out and probably on break for a week
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Oct 15, 2015 07:48
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People are making GBS threads from the mouth about nakama, of course it's on break for a week, Jose-peng you.
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Oct 15, 2015 08:01
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Waffleman_ posted:Sure, they provide an objectively superior product in pretty much every way, BUT THERE'S AN L, YOU GUYS! You're right, but I can't make myself not care. Every time I read the official release and see "Zolo", it takes me right out of the experience because I've known his name for years and that not it. It'd be like buying an Avengers comic and everyone's referring to an incredible "Halk". I recently came into a bit of money and plan on buying the entire official series, but I'll probably never read it because "Zolo".
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Oct 15, 2015 08:22
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Spanish Matlock posted:People are making GBS threads from the mouth about nakama, of course it's on break for a week, Jose-peng you.
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Oct 15, 2015 08:34
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lowercase16 posted:You're right, but I can't make myself not care. Every time I read the official release and see "Zolo", it takes me right out of the experience because I've known his name for years and that not it. It'd be like buying an Avengers comic and everyone's referring to an incredible "Halk". I read the official Swedish translation which has Ruffy for years before going scanlation (I still can't get an official translation that's even close to catching up) and you do get used to it. It just takes like 50 chapters or so.
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Oct 15, 2015 12:14
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It does cause some weird things like in the mobile game Treasure Cruise. On Zoro's cards and stats he is listed as Zoro. But during cutscenes they call him Zolo
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Oct 15, 2015 15:20
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Do they edit Zoro's wanted posters in the official releases to say "Zolo?"
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Oct 15, 2015 15:26
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i just wanted to discuss the visual quality of scanlations and a guy who doesn't understand bartolomeo's character 
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Oct 15, 2015 15:34
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So it seems like a bunch of people on the internet think "nakama" has some kind of deeper meaning than "friend" but consulting this venn diagram there seems to be a pretty big overlap between people who think that and people who don't have any friends so maybe that explains it??
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Oct 15, 2015 15:40
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The way Kaizoku should have handled it, would be to properly translate the Arlong/Nami scenes, and include a lengthy translation note at the beginning or end of the episode. Explain that Luffy and Arlong were arguing over a word that doesn't really make sense in English, and how they altered the dialog to compensate. That is really the only point in the series when the word has any significance, and it wouldn't have caused a major rift.lowercase16 posted:You're right, but I can't make myself not care. Every time I read the official release and see "Zolo", it takes me right out of the experience because I've known his name for years and that not it. It'd be like buying an Avengers comic and everyone's referring to an incredible "Halk". That's how I feel when I see Japanese sound effects, nakama, schichibukai, den den mushi, yonkou, gorosei, 'eh' instead of 'what' or 'huh', hakabushiki haki, untranslated Devil Fruit no mi, Kumacy and pointless honorifics. There's no way to read One Piece without doing mental gymnastics, but the Viz version has significantly less of that.
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Oct 15, 2015 16:38
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I'm rereading death note and at one point the group changes and all these japanese policemen started calling each other bloke and geezer for some reason.
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Oct 15, 2015 17:27
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Waffleman_ posted:Sure, they provide an objectively superior product in pretty much every way, BUT THERE'S AN L, YOU GUYS! most of this thread reads mangastream's weeb horseshit instead of paying twenty dollars a year for actual official simulpub translations are you surprised
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Oct 15, 2015 17:58
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Literally The Worst posted:most of this thread reads mangastream's weeb horseshit instead of paying twenty dollars a year for actual official simulpub translations I would buy them if I could get them in my country.
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Oct 15, 2015 18:04
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oddium posted:here's an article about why scanlations are bad (saved you a click: it's because of swears and shichibukai/nakama/yonkou). the most interesting part is the difference in visual quality between official and scanlations: quote:To top it all off, scanlators tend to plaster their watermarks all over the pages in an effort to own work that isn’t theirs to begin with. hmmm where have i heard someone bitching about that before
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Oct 15, 2015 18:09
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Andrast posted:I would buy them if I could get them in my country. that's legit, but a lot of people can get them in their country, and don't. these people are dummies because it literally comes out to like, 50 cents a week for one piece plus other good comics
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Oct 15, 2015 18:10
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Even with my subscription, I'm still here every Wednesday/Thursday reading scanlations too. I reread the official translations, but I can't wait between four and five days for my manga fix. I have no self control and by then the discussion's died down.
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Oct 15, 2015 18:41
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Cipher Pol 9 posted:Even with my subscription, I'm still here every Wednesday/Thursday reading scanlations too. I reread the official translations, but I can't wait between four and five days for my manga fix. I have no self control and by then the discussion's died down. Same. It doesn't help that viz' online reader is still garbage.
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Oct 15, 2015 18:48
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I just buy the physical manga or kindle releases.
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Oct 15, 2015 18:49
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Begemot posted:Same. It doesn't help that viz' online reader is still garbage. move into the 21st century and read it on a mobile device scrublord, their app is great Baal posted:I just buy the physical manga or kindle releases. if i wasn't in the middle of packing i would post my two solid shelves of one piece because i wanted to reread the first half of the story with actual translations
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Oct 15, 2015 19:23
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Literally The Worst posted:move into the 21st century and read it on a mobile device scrublord, their app is great I really wish you had posted your two solid shelves of printed Japanese comic books in the same post you told someone to move into the 21st century.
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Oct 15, 2015 19:33
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Prison Warden posted:
You're welcome, it is my masterpiece ZepiaEltnamOberon posted:Couldn't they just have gone with Arlong saying something like "she belongs to us" and Luffy saying "no, she belongs with us" or "no, she's one of us" something like that. I'm posting from the alternate universe where this happened and it's really cool over here guys F. Lobot posted:That's how I feel when I see Japanese sound effects, nakama, schichibukai, den den mushi, yonkou, gorosei, 'eh' instead of 'what' or 'huh', hakabushiki haki, untranslated Devil Fruit no mi, Kumacy and pointless honorifics. There's no way to read One Piece without doing mental gymnastics, but the Viz version has significantly less of that. eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeh
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Oct 15, 2015 19:38
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How many more must die in the Nakama Wars? For years our mateys have fallen, our bros, lost to the yonkou trenches. When will the struggle end?
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Oct 15, 2015 19:44
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F. Lobot posted:That's how I feel when I see Japanese sound effects, nakama, schichibukai, den den mushi, yonkou, gorosei, 'eh' instead of 'what' or 'huh', hakabushiki haki, untranslated Devil Fruit no mi, Kumacy and pointless honorifics. There's no way to read One Piece without doing mental gymnastics, but the Viz version has significantly less of that. naaaaaaaaaaaaaan ?? AnonSpore posted:eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeh yosh
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Oct 15, 2015 19:45
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