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What period in history has Afghanistan ever been a progressive, liberal society?
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Oct 15, 2015 18:31
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BI NOW GAY LATER posted:What could they possibly blackmail me with? And then your employer, having been sent all your texts and emails, fires you for reasons definitely not related to the contents of messages that they disliked.
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Oct 15, 2015 18:33
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zoux posted:What period in history has Afghanistan ever been a progressive, liberal society? Before the US and USSR made it into a proxy war zone it was doing pretty well actually...
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Oct 15, 2015 18:34
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A Winner is Jew posted:Before the US and USSR made it into a proxy war zone it was doing pretty well actually... Don't cite imgur photo albums as evidence.
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Oct 15, 2015 18:34
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Evil Fluffy posted:And then your employer, having been sent all your texts and emails, fires you for reasons definitely not related to the contents of messages that they disliked. Look you're just going to sound crazy if you think the NSA is interested in blackmailing random people. I get the dislike for people who don't care because they are not and will not be the targets but you just sound like a loon when you start suggesting to people that the NSA is after them.
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Oct 15, 2015 18:35
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evilweasel posted:Look you're just going to sound crazy if you think the NSA is interested in blackmailing random people. I get the dislike for people who don't care because they are not and will not be the targets but you just sound like a loon when you start suggesting to people that the NSA is after them. Are you at all familiar with China's new Citizen Score? The ACLU covered it fairly thoroughly last week. Basically governments aren't so much interested in directly blackmailing you as paternalistic ally "nudging" you to be what they want
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Oct 15, 2015 18:37
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If you want to make the NSA stuff matter to people then you'll need to do something like say, sure, you may not think the NSA cares about your stuff - but what about China or Russia reading your email or your businesses' email? This attack isn't outside their capabilities so the NSA failing to disclose it does put you at risk. That said, the NSA's job is to break crypto and if they're doing it without backdooring your crypto that people can read your emails is on the cryptographers, not the NSA: the flaw would still be there even if the NSA didn't exist.
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Oct 15, 2015 18:37
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Lincoln Chafee once spent $6,000 of taxpayer money on frogs for his office
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Oct 15, 2015 18:38
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Fried Chicken posted:Are you at all familiar with China's new Citizen Score? The ACLU covered it fairly thoroughly last week. Basically governments aren't so much interested in directly blackmailing you as paternalistic ally "nudging" you to be what they want China is not a liberal democracy with a tradition of privacy protections.
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Oct 15, 2015 18:38
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zoux posted:What period in history has Afghanistan ever been a progressive, liberal society? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gandhara In the heydays of the silk road when you had lots of wealthy merchants, there was arguably a couple hundred years of cosmopolitan, (relatively) progressive Buddhist government before you see the onset of steady waves of invading hordes.
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Oct 15, 2015 18:38
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Mojo Threepwood posted:Serious question: is there any reasonable way for America to leave Afghanistan without it being a humanitarian disaster? Does inventing a time machine back to the 1970s count as leaving if we never have to go there in the first place?
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Oct 15, 2015 18:39
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evilweasel posted:Look you're just going to sound crazy if you think the NSA is interested in blackmailing random people. I get the dislike for people who don't care because they are not and will not be the targets but you just sound like a loon when you start suggesting to people that the NSA is after them. This. evilweasel posted:If you want to make the NSA stuff matter to people then you'll need to do something like say, sure, you may not think the NSA cares about your stuff - but what about China or Russia reading your email or your businesses' email? This attack isn't outside their capabilities so the NSA failing to disclose it does put you at risk. And also this.
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Oct 15, 2015 18:39
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zoux posted:What period in history has Afghanistan ever been a progressive, liberal society? The Greco Bactrian kingdom?
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Oct 15, 2015 18:40
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I can support that. e: Also that's not correct, apparently he had a modest slush fund, and bought some $1.99 frogs for his office aquarium. If anything, he didn't buy enough frogs.
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Oct 15, 2015 18:42
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How much is that in metic though?
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Oct 15, 2015 18:45
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A Winner is Jew posted:Before the US and USSR made it into a proxy war zone it was doing pretty well actually... You mean when the Brits were there?
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Oct 15, 2015 18:51
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evilweasel posted:If you want to make the NSA stuff matter to people then you'll need to do something like say, sure, you may not think the NSA cares about your stuff - but what about China or Russia reading your email or your businesses' email? This attack isn't outside their capabilities so the NSA failing to disclose it does put you at risk. Even if you don't think the NSA as an organization desires to blackmail individual citizens, I would think you'd be concerned with the fact that it's relatively easy for individuals who work for the NSA, who have access to these sophisticated monitoring systems and/or harvested data, to blackmail you. Hell, take the NSA off the table. Google itself logs everything you search for on Google and everything you watch on YouTube and ties it all to your Google account. It's relatively easy for an employee to access that data and quickly know almost everything about you. Combine that kind of data with Facebook and other social media data - and, hell, ISP traffic logs - and you can start data modeling individuals, find commonalities, build profiles, and so on. That's what Big Data is all about and the allure of it to corporations and governments. Even if you don't care about being blackmailed, the reality is governments and corporations will know more and more about us than we know about ourselves or each-other. That provides them with a lot of leverage. But, this is SA, so I am sure it'll be hand-waived.
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Oct 15, 2015 19:00
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zoux posted:China is not a liberal democracy with a tradition of privacy protections. Does privacy matter or mean anything if citizens willingly submit their information to privately owned systems?
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Oct 15, 2015 19:01
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Noam Chomsky posted:Even if you don't think the NSA as an organization desires to blackmail individual citizens, I would think you'd be concerned with the fact that it's relatively easy for individuals who work for the NSA, who have access to these sophisticated monitoring systems and/or harvested data, to blackmail you. I think you'll find that the additional power over us they gain by this information is still quite small compared to the biopower they exert over us. That is to say, I hear your concerns, but if NSA agents are blackmailing people, I think we're hosed even if we don't have all our phone calls recorded.
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Oct 15, 2015 19:02
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My shameful porn viewing history will hopefully not be a killer.
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Oct 15, 2015 19:03
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That church beating to death case got weird: the church is an insular compound where they raise dogs and don't let police in. The beatings happened at a "counseling session" that consisted of the parents beating the poo poo out of their kids until they "confess their sins." So yeah, fundamentalism strikes again.
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Oct 15, 2015 19:05
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Trabisnikof posted:I think you'll find that the additional power over us they gain by this information is still quite small compared to the biopower they exert over us. It's not really about power; it's about leveraging information to contrive better systems of control. You also have to think of this in the context of the next 10 to 20 years, and after, with whole generations growing up not having a conceptual framework in which privacy exists thanks to social media.
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Oct 15, 2015 19:05
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Noam Chomsky posted:Does privacy matter or mean anything if citizens willingly submit their information to privately owned systems? I don't care what other people do with respect to their own non-coerced private information.
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Oct 15, 2015 19:05
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Uroboros posted:My shameful porn viewing history will hopefully not be a killer. If you're just some schmuck it won't matter. You're a party member in good standing. However, the kind of leverage I'm talking about makes it very easy to put down any kind of dissent, even before the dissent is visible. But, I get it, nobody cares.
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Oct 15, 2015 19:06
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Nsa could easily and probably is conducting industrial espionage and insider trading. It just fucks with markets as a whole and confidence and invites corruption.
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Oct 15, 2015 19:07
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zoux posted:I don't care what other people do with respect to their own non-coerced private information. So, you'd be OK with an app that could pull everything you've ever done online, ever, in a nice easy-to-read format? That's not impossible and it's what a lot of organizations are working toward.
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Oct 15, 2015 19:08
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Noam Chomsky posted:So, you'd be OK with an app that could pull everything you've ever done online, ever, in a nice easy-to-read format? That's not impossible and it's what a lot of organizations are working toward. No, I would not be OK with that.
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Oct 15, 2015 19:09
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euphronius posted:Nsa could easily and probably is conducting industrial espionage and insider trading. It just fucks with markets as a whole and confidence and invites corruption. I'd be absolutely loving shocked if it wasn't. There is a very very log history of state intelligence agencies and spies being used to gain economic advantages. British Intelligence did it like mad to help catch up after WW2.
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Oct 15, 2015 19:11
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Noam Chomsky posted:So, you'd be OK with an app that could pull everything you've ever done online, ever, in a nice easy-to-read format? That's not impossible and it's what a lot of organizations are working toward. The reality is that there's so much data out there that they can't really do much with it.
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Oct 15, 2015 19:11
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Noam Chomsky posted:So, you'd be OK with an app that could pull everything you've ever done online, ever, in a nice easy-to-read format? That's not impossible and it's what a lot of organizations are working toward. I think there will be a choice we as society make. There's nothing wrong with information being open and free if we as a society don't harm people based on that information. Will the internet be a nudist beach or will we continue to pretend that only the people exposed have the parts they do?
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Oct 15, 2015 19:11
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Fried Chicken posted:I'd be absolutely loving shocked if it wasn't. There is a very very log history of state intelligence agencies and spies being used to gain economic advantages. British Intelligence did it like mad to help catch up after WW2. It also explains to me how many communications companies went along with the nsa so easily. Maybe googles cooperation was cemented with access to the email and databases of competitors.
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Oct 15, 2015 19:12
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euphronius posted:It also explains to me how many communications companies went along with the nsa so easily. nah they go along with the NSA because it makes them loving poo poo tons of money.
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Oct 15, 2015 19:12
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Trabisnikof posted:nah they go along with the NSA because it makes them loving poo poo tons of money. Plata o plomo.
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Oct 15, 2015 19:13
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BI NOW GAY LATER posted:The reality is that there's so much data out there that they can't really do much with it. This is crazy, you're crazy
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Oct 15, 2015 19:17
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Actually, I've heard as a complaint that the US Intelligence Community doesn't do enough industrial espionage because we don't have as many state-run businesses to turn over intel to. Sure there are the Boeings, Microsofts, AT&Ts, etc where they can get the hookup, but we don't have a national steel company to pass off a sweet German steel technique to or whatever.
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Oct 15, 2015 19:18
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evilweasel posted:Look you're just going to sound crazy if you think the NSA is interested in blackmailing random people. I get the dislike for people who don't care because they are not and will not be the targets but you just sound like a loon when you start suggesting to people that the NSA is after them. Eh, maybe not random people, but if the poster is planning a political or government al career? Then she isn't random. The potential for abuse is extreme and saying people who point that out sound crazy is a hair's breadth away from gaslighting.
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Oct 15, 2015 19:20
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Trabisnikof posted:Actually, I've heard as a complaint that the US Intelligence Community doesn't do enough industrial espionage because we don't have as many state-run businesses to turn over intel to. That's ridiculous. They just give it to Boeing.
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Oct 15, 2015 19:20
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euphronius posted:That's ridiculous. They just give it to Boeing. Or any of the other MIC
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Oct 15, 2015 19:20
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:I can think of at least one clear example where journalists have a responsibility not to report: suicides. There is clear data that sensationalist reporting on suicides increases the suicide rate, often with new suicides mirroring the publicized suicide. Is that an actual real effect or is there simply higher scrutiny on suicides and fewer get ignored after a major one? How many things get passed off as "natural causes" or "a sudden illness" or "an accident" in normal times that someone actually does a bit of digging to find it's suicide in heightened scrutiny times? And how many regular suicides of a particular type get ignored by the press in normal times but suddenly seem important at the same rate immediately after Joe Celebrity hangs himself?
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Oct 15, 2015 19:25
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euphronius posted:That's ridiculous. They just give it to Boeing. Lockheed-Martin, but yeah.
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Oct 15, 2015 19:29
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