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well, yes, obviously many of us have. poo poo two months ago I did six ACW battlefields in two days. Los of cannon were seen. However, I stand by the fact that your average person probably has more exposure to cannon and cannon ball sizes from Pirates of the Caribbean than 150 year old relics.
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Oct 15, 2015 23:33
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Cyrano4747 posted:well, yes, obviously many of us have. poo poo two months ago I did six ACW battlefields in two days. Los of cannon were seen. Plus, I bet museums prefer showing off big cannons over small ones. At Louisbourg all the cannons they have are 24-pounders.
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Oct 15, 2015 23:42
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You certainly can't go to the Imperial War Museum without having their 15-inchers thrust in your face Anything else is clearly a pop-gun fit only for cloudpunching.
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Oct 15, 2015 23:45
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I love the sign there just behind them. This one right here:  I totally need to go back with a better camera.
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Oct 15, 2015 23:57
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Arquinsiel posted:I love the sign there just behind them. The Roman palace at Fishbourne had a wonderful warning sign: "Unattended Children will be Sold into Slavery"
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Oct 16, 2015 00:01
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chitoryu12 posted:Exactly what were they upset about? They cited the following laws: 114-FZ "On counteracting extremist activity" 436-FZ "On protecting children from information harming their health or development" 149-FZ "On information, information technologies, and protecting information" Government Decree #1101 "Single register of domain names, links to pages in the information-telecommunication network "Internet" and network addresses, allowing the identification of sites in the information-telecommunication network "Internet", containing information the distribution of which is forbidden inside of the Russian Federation"
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Oct 16, 2015 00:11
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Cyrano4747 posted:Going back a bit to cannon weights and how most people are surprised by how heavy small cannon balls can be: Tangentially related to cannon weight, but this Summer I had the privilege or racing the United States Marines in firing a 6pdr Armstrong gun. As the gunner responsible for pulling the limber (alone) and the gun (with the rest of the detachment) I can attest to the relative lightness of the gun and the charge. Still doesn't feel super light when you're racing head to head, though, and we were using what amounts to 1 pound of black powder stuffed into a dixie cup and stocking. Probably more interesting to the thread are the resulting pictures of the Marines using our gun:  Compared to us 'bellhops'  Bonus action shots for all your alt-history needs:   
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Oct 16, 2015 00:17
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The ear plugs ruin it. I want historical levels of hearing loss in my alt-history artillerymen!
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Oct 16, 2015 00:20
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Trin Tragula posted:You certainly can't go to the Imperial War Museum without having their 15-inchers thrust in your face Missouri, her three sisters and three cousins laugh at your two pathetic 15-inchers. 
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Oct 16, 2015 00:22
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Glorious Yamato... ...poo poo.
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Oct 16, 2015 00:23
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ALL-PRO SEXMAN posted:The ear plugs ruin it. I want historical levels of hearing loss in my alt-history artillerymen!
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Oct 16, 2015 00:25
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wdarkk posted:Glorious Yamato... Laid low by dishonorable, carrier based devils.
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Oct 16, 2015 00:25
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wdarkk posted:Glorious Yamato... You mean that dumbass anime where they turn her into a spaceship is actually completely laughable? My world is collapsing around me. Anime sucks and is bad.
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Oct 16, 2015 00:25
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Armord Personal Carriers: WHY DO THEY EXIST. How where they developed? How where they deployed both on paper and in the real world? I assume it shields infrantrymen from artillery shrapnel and other nastyness but I assume there is a real technical problem when it comes to driving around that much armor. What do half-tracks haft to do with it it? Everyone talks about tanks but how are you going to get your infantry support there? TALK ABOUT THEM FUCKERS TALK.
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Oct 16, 2015 00:27
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ALL-PRO SEXMAN posted:You mean that dumbass anime where they turn her into a spaceship is actually completely laughable? My world is collapsing around me. They knew this at the time, too since the drat thing exploded so hard you could see it from Japan.
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Oct 16, 2015 00:28
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HEY GAL posted:Cadiz I would have loved to see the initial Spanish reaction to the 1000 drunk Englishmen. "Captain - we've encountered the enemy." "What are they doing?" "They, uh, they seem to be horribly drunk. Horribly." "..." "Uh, what should we do?" "gently caress, put 'em to the sword, I guess." I am now picturing the 17th century as an endless stream of variations on the conversation at the end of Burn After Reading.
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Oct 16, 2015 00:29
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Ensign Expendable posted:They cited the following laws: I would think Russia would approve of children who had the ambition to build their own T-34.
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Oct 16, 2015 00:30
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This is fantastic. Something I've always wondered: I understand how effective early artillery was in a tactical and strategic sense, but I don't get how it actually worked in practice. If the rounds are just solid shot and not chain/grape, how can they possibly be more effective against massed infantry than a shitload of musket fire? Like, the ball hits one guy and a bunch of other guys directly behind him, which I guess would have a pretty good effect against a densely packed formation, but I just don't see it working well enough to be useful compared to the other stuff armies had at the time. There isn't any shrapnel or area effect that I'm aware of. I just don't see why they were useful compared to, say, a catapult throwing exploding/burning things, or just arming the crew with more muskets and not having to lug around big fuckoff cannons everywhere you go. Obviously I am not referring to ship or siege warfare where the benefits there are pretty plain.
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Oct 16, 2015 00:30
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AdvancesMONKEY posted:Armord Personal Carriers: WHY DO THEY EXIST. How where they developed? How where they deployed both on paper and in the real world? I assume it shields infrantrymen from artillery shrapnel and other nastyness but I assume there is a real technical problem when it comes to driving around that much armor. What do half-tracks haft to do with it it? Everyone talks about tanks but how are you going to get your infantry support there? TALK ABOUT THEM FUCKERS TALK. You need vehicles to help your infantry keep up with your tanks. Vehicles that can shrug of light fire can be used to move guys up to the battlefield a lot better than a truck. Half-tracks were basically an intermediary, and modern APCs went from 'Battle Taxi' to 'Since they're there they might as well do things.'
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Oct 16, 2015 00:32
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AdvancesMONKEY posted:Armord Personal Carriers: WHY DO THEY EXIST. How where they developed? How where they deployed both on paper and in the real world? I assume it shields infrantrymen from artillery shrapnel and other nastyness but I assume there is a real technical problem when it comes to driving around that much armor. What do half-tracks haft to do with it it? Everyone talks about tanks but how are you going to get your infantry support there? TALK ABOUT THEM FUCKERS TALK. Tanks go faster than people can walk. Trucks can keep up with tanks but are vulnerable to everything and don't go through rough terrain as well as tracked vehicles. Specialized armored vehicles designed to carry infantry solve that problem.
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Oct 16, 2015 00:33
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Slavvy posted:This is fantastic. Bigger gun = more range.
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Oct 16, 2015 00:35
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Mr Enderby posted:I don't know where you're getting that. Buckingham had influence over Charles because everyone had influence over Charles, because he was the highly suggestible type. I've never seen any reason to believe they were bumming, and the other men who have an undue influence on Charles tend not to be obviously sexy (see Archbishop Laud). You're right, I got James and Charles mixed up. Sorry!
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Oct 16, 2015 00:36
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wdarkk posted:Bigger gun = more range. No poo poo, do you care to elaborate? Why is it useful to shoot a tennis sized ball of iron a mile and hit one or two guys?
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Oct 16, 2015 00:37
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Slavvy posted:This is fantastic. Elissimpark posted:I would have loved to see the initial Spanish reaction to the 1000 drunk Englishmen.  i've actually never seen anyone wear their jacket over their armor before. huh
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Oct 16, 2015 00:38
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HEY GAL posted:not only are they not unstoppable superpeople, i would also say that there's something about fascism that makes people who would otherwise have been intelligent make some really terrible decisions Nebakenezzer posted:
I've been reading Shigeru Mizuki's comics about his time in the IJA in the Pacific and I was starting to think the same thing. These commanders are convinced that their modern day samurai are going to kill 10 men each while dying gloriously; everyone in their massive organization is going to perform with superhuman heroism ALL THE TIME, also while not being given food. And if they fail in this, a good idea is maybe to beat the poo poo out of them, or have them shot? Opinions differ here Beyond that, there was such a glorification of noble self-sacrifice that for a fighting man to be healthy and unharmed was disreputable, and a sign that he was somehow neglecting his duty. Mizuki's squad becomes a huge headache for the local command and a target of suspicion because they survive an action that was considered a suicide attack. There's several stories about overrunning an American position and being just amazed at all their nice tinned rations and stuff. Japan's production capacity was so hosed that they couldn't have provided for their soldiers that way anyway, so whether ideology followed reality or the other way around on that one is questionable, but still
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Oct 16, 2015 00:39
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Slavvy posted:No poo poo, do you care to elaborate? Why is it useful to shoot a tennis sized ball of iron a mile and hit one or two guys? because then they cant shoot ur doodz
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Oct 16, 2015 00:45
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Agean90 posted:because then they cant shoot ur doodz
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Oct 16, 2015 00:47
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Slavvy posted:No poo poo, do you care to elaborate? Why is it useful to shoot a tennis sized ball of iron a mile and hit one or two guys? very small bore cannon (e.g. "tennis ball sized") load and fire relatively rapidly and far, far out range musketry. Having a few of those around is great for beating on the enemy when the armies aren't in active combat with each other. It's also really loving demoralizing to take fire you can't respond to, so there is that benefit beyond any casualties you are inflicting. As for the rest of it, people have been making exploding cannon balls and grape/canister shot basically since they started making the shot out of metal instead of rocks. Frankly I wouldn't be surprised if the first versions of grape shot didn't involve rocks, so that might be even older.
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Oct 16, 2015 00:54
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Slavvy posted:This is fantastic. I don't think that catapults shot exploding/burning things on battlefields. And they were rarely used on battlefields at all.
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Oct 16, 2015 01:15
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There's also the fact that there's a limit on how many muskets you can usefully pack into a given space and thus a limit on how much firepower musketry can bring to bear on any given location (unless you manage to flank the enemy or otherwise make good use of terrain). Well-positioned artillery, on the other hand, can focus the full firepower of the army on any given point as needed without having to march a block of dudes from one end of the battlefield to another. Edit: Also marching along out in the open and then watching the dude next to you and the five other dudes behind him suddenly manifest huge bleeding screaming holes in them while there's nothing you can do about it but keep marching and pray you get lucky can be a pretty uncomfortable feeling. Tomn fucked around with this message at 01:28 on Oct 16, 2015 |
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Oct 16, 2015 01:25
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How did the Spanish manage to escape from Rocroi? Was it just a compliment from the French to let them walk away without taking them prisoner?
Slim Jim Pickens fucked around with this message at 01:36 on Oct 16, 2015 |
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Oct 16, 2015 01:33
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HEY GAL posted:if the ground is rocky you can also skip the shot off the earth and send a spray of stone shards into the oncoming block Imagine this, except instead of a cannonball being skipped it's a 100mm high-explosive round. Congratulations, you have just successfully imagined yourself an Italian infantryman on the Carso in 1915. Enjoy cowering for protection behind, er, a wall of loose stones. Sod Cadorna.
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Oct 16, 2015 01:46
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Cadorna could be a Warhammer 40k character, and people would think his recklesness is a bit over the top.  edit: I mean, you have people like Potyorek, who are eager and incompetent, and then you have... that... my dad fucked around with this message at 01:54 on Oct 16, 2015 |
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Oct 16, 2015 01:49
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Slim Jim Pickens posted:How did the Spanish manage to escape from Rocroi? Was it just a compliment from the French to let them walk away without taking them prisoner? Most of them didn't. But their defense was so valiant that the French gave them really excellent terms of defeat. If you haven't checked out the excellent (though definitely fictionalized) film The Battle of Rocroi, you should do so: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dMEnBHef96c
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Oct 16, 2015 02:12
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Kaal posted:Most of them didn't. But their defense was so valiant that the French gave them really excellent terms of defeat.
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Oct 16, 2015 02:29
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AdvancesMONKEY posted:Armord Personal Carriers: WHY DO THEY EXIST. How where they developed? How where they deployed both on paper and in the real world? I assume it shields infrantrymen from artillery shrapnel and other nastyness but I assume there is a real technical problem when it comes to driving around that much armor. What do half-tracks haft to do with it it? Everyone talks about tanks but how are you going to get your infantry support there? TALK ABOUT THEM FUCKERS TALK. APCs were developed alongside tanks ever since WWI, since it became obvious early on that you needed infantry with the tanks to actually acomplish anything, and they needed protection, leading to the Mark IX :  This was purely for protection, as those things had limited range and could not move faster than a walking soldier in any case. The idea of an APC as well protected as the tanks was then dropped, mostly due to prohibitive cost. As technology improved in the interwar years came increasing motorization, but this was mostly directed at replacing horses in pulling artillery and supplies from wherever the supply train or ship dropped it to the frontlines, not moving people. Since trucks of the period had no offroad capabilities to speak of, most of the armies of the time adopted some sort of tracked vehicle to do the job. Most ended up with some sort of modified tank chassis for pulling the heavy artillery, and things like the Universal Carrier for light guns and supplies.  Note how tiny it is. It's for carrying things, not men. That's also where the halftrack appears, mostly thanks to one Adolphe Kegresse who invented a very simple and cheap track system, that could be adapted onto basically any existing car or truck chassis.  Here is a Rolls-Royce Silver Ghost so modified, belonging to some Lenin dude. Most militaries immediately jumped on the concept, as it meant they could use lightly modified civilian trucks, making things vastly cheaper than purpose built tracked vehicles. The reason the Kegresse system was cheap is that it had no steering, basically simply replacing the wheels, this meant you could use the drive train from a truck, but you had to retain the front wheels to steer the thing. Since militaries had now access to relatively cheap offroad transportation, it didn't take long until people realized you could put infantry into them so they would keep up with the tanks. Since they would have to accompany tanks, they had to be armored, else some dude with a machinegun or harassment fire by artillery could force your whole advance to a halt. The first ones to really try this out were the British, with the Experimental Mechanized Force in the late '20s, but even into WWII most infranty was walking, not riding.  The two emblematic WWII halftracks. Of course the germans being germans, the sdkfz 251 pictured here had most of a tank's drivetrain underneath it instead of a truck's chassis. It was rather overengineered and didn't really need the front wheels, as the tracks had steering. And while the halftracks where armored, they were not intended to actually fight. The armour on these was thin, and you could put holes into them with some persistent MG fire or even a rifle with AP ammunition. The point was to get from point A to point B, and when expecting contact, to dismount in a safe spot and proceed on foot. After all, if you lost the vehicle, the squad riding in it is now stuck in place and most likely useless to you. After the war, around half the known world ended up with US Army surplus M5 Halftracks thanks to the US cranking them out during WWII and then deciding it was not worth the shipping to get them back to the US, but by then the rapid technological advances of WWII had rendered halftracks mostly obsolete, and while they soldiered on into the '50s they did not have the offroad capabilities needed to keep up with the postwar tanks and faded into history. During the '50s and '60s, mostly everyone tried their hand at making their own APCs, and you end up with a wild and weird period where armies adopt a new one every few years as they learn how to make the things actually work properly. The US ended up going fully tracked with the M75, into the M59, settling with the M113, while the Soviets filled the role with the wheeled BTR-60 and tracked BTR-50 after the rather truck-like BTR-152.  The M113 is not named, nor has it ever been nicknamed, the Gavin. Do not call it a Gavin, even ironically. I will stab you.  Unlike most APCs, the BTR 60 has the engine at the rear. This means the troops get to disembark via roof hatches, intead of the common rear door This is not a popular feature, especially if you have to do it under fire. During that time, a lot of the focus becomes about how to enable infantry to survive and fight effectively in NBC conditions, IE after the nukes, so a lot of the development goes into air filtration systems and pressurization of the crew compartment (So any hole leaks clean air out, instead of dirty air in). But then what do you do if you end up meeting the enemy while crossing a contaminated zone ? Enters the IFV. (That's for another post, i am rambling way too much already)
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Oct 16, 2015 02:33
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HEY GAL posted:that is an excerpt from the movie Alatriste Is that a pretty accurate depiction of 30YW pike and shot era combat? Curious if the fictionalization is more of events and characters relative to accurate portrayal of combat.
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Oct 16, 2015 02:36
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sullat posted:You're right, I got James and Charles mixed up. Sorry! It's easy to get those Stuarts and their terrible choices mixed up. The National Theatre recently did a series of plays on James the I, II and III of Scotland, which was extremely awesome and reminded me that the Stuarts were actually a fantastic dynasty, before they came to England.
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Oct 16, 2015 02:37
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Ensign Expendable posted:They cited the following laws: I wanna believe your adventures in wikipedia pissed off some Russian sperg who reported you. Possibly saying 'German big cat tanks are bad' shatters dreams and are thus detrimental to children? wdarkk posted:They knew this at the time, too since the drat thing exploded so hard you could see it from Japan. Apparently there was a live action movie.
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Oct 16, 2015 02:52
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wdarkk posted:Glorious Yamato... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GoP62Emv5xk What was that communications thing the captain and conning tower people were using? Was it common during the interwar and WW1 years or was it a Japanese thing?
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Oct 16, 2015 02:55
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