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Ah, okay, that makes sense. Earlier in this thread it was mentioned that Islam didn't have a figure analogous to the Pope. Were there any attempts to set one up in one of the branches? How would, say, the Ayatollah compare in role and function to the Pope?
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Oct 16, 2015 17:09
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Another odd question I just had to google: I was reading a thread on another site and saw that flu shots contain gelatin (which seems more often than not to be derived from pork, at least in the US) and found myself googling "are flu shots halal?" The answer from basically every scholar I see translated into English seems to be "medical need outweighs the possible haram status of injecting pork derivatives into yourself" which is pretty cool to me. I wasn't going to not get one anyhow but I never realized that they had that component. Granted there are also apparently complete whackjobs who say we should only use medicine found in the Qur'an which is, thankfully, not even close to a majority viewpoint. goose fleet posted:Ah, okay, that makes sense. This kind of goes back to what I mentioned last night/this morning about the chaos of succession after the death of Muhammad; maybe there could have been a figure like that but with tens of millions of people by now carrying the genetic inheritance that Shi'a believe should be the successor of Muhammad, that's not exactly plausible. And Sunni's whole thing in the split was choosing their own leaders based on the consensus among the faithful, which doesn't lead to one group under the leadership of one person but a whole lot of them because everyone has their own opinion. The emphasis is more on learning than authority and I'm not sure how to best word that. Someone's knowledge is going to be more respected and admired than their position of authority? Like I can look at the ayatollahs mentioned below and acknowledge that both of them studied/have studied Islamic theology to a far greater degree than I have, even if I disagree with their interpretations and don't follow them. I assume you mean Ayatollahs Khomeini and Khamenei? Ayatollah is a title specific to Twelver Shi'a as far as I know, and it just indicates someone who is an expert in Islamic law/theology, that kind of thing. They're often teachers; it's comparable to the use of the word shaykh for important Islamic clerics or leaders in other areas. EDIT: Answering this post made me find out there are two political parties in Iran named some variation of "Combatant Clerics Association" and the mental image is really hard not to kind of giggle at Tendai fucked around with this message at 17:22 on Oct 16, 2015 |
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Oct 16, 2015 17:11
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is the praying towards mecca just a traditional thing, or is it theological? from what i have understood, mohammed was just a man and a prophet, and he just happened to travel to mecca and retake the kaaba, but that was more political than religious? then there are a bunch of hadith but you kind of disregard most of them because they're of questionable historicity... so what's the reason for praying in the direction of mecca rather than just praying wherever? is it your opinion that if mohammed hadn't been around, islam would have appeared from a different prophet? like in buddhism there's a belief that there are many buddhas throughout history and the dharma will be forgotten and re-remembered again and again. is there anything similar in islam?
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Oct 16, 2015 19:03
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oh, another question: how do your beliefs relate to mainstream muslims? i.e. if you compared your beliefs to the most popular type of islam worldwide, what would the main differences be?
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Oct 16, 2015 19:19
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ashgromnies posted:is the praying towards mecca just a traditional thing, or is it theological? quote:We see the turning of thy face (for guidance to the heavens: now Shall We turn thee to a Qibla that shall please thee. Turn then Thy face in the direction of the sacred Mosque: Wherever ye are, turn your faces in that direction. The people of the Book know well that that is the truth from their Lord. Nor is Allah unmindful of what they do. ashgromnies posted:from what i have understood, mohammed was just a man and a prophet, and he just happened to travel to mecca and retake the kaaba, but that was more political than religious?  Fizzil mentioned the actual difference in words a couple pages back, rasul vs. nabi. The latter carries a greater sense of needing to emulate that person, while the former has more the connotation of someone through which a message is passed, which is what Muhammad was. There was a pretty religious justification for it, albeit one that doesn't stand up to modern historical knowledge. The two main ideas I know about is the one that says it was a place that angels worshiped before man was created (and there's something about Noah in there too) and the one that says it was the first mosque built. I think there are more but I do not know offhand. The main thing that ties them together is the belief that Ishmael and/or Abraham having built it/helped build it/at least gone to it is the connection between Mecca (the kaaba specifically) and the other Abrahamic religions.ashgromnies posted:then there are a bunch of hadith but you kind of disregard most of them because they're of questionable historicity... so what's the reason for praying in the direction of mecca rather than just praying wherever? ashgromnies posted:is it your opinion that if mohammed hadn't been around, islam would have appeared from a different prophet? Islam believes that Muhammad was the last messenger to receive revelations. Here we get into needing to know more about Arabic than I do because I think the verse I know for this (33:40) calls him both messenger and prophet, but I'm not sure of the intricacies of translations. Some put it as "the seal of the prophets" implying that he ended the line of Abrahamic prophecy rather than that he was himself the last prophet, and I'm not sure of the connotations of the Arabic terms used. But in any case, Muhammad was the last of them, whichever you prefer to say. There are people who are great scholars and who have tried and been recognized in their struggles to get closer to Allah, but they are admirable human beings and not Official Spokesmen, so to speak. ashgromnies posted:oh, another question: how do your beliefs relate to mainstream muslims? The most obvious one is my beliefs about alcohol and related things being mostly negative but not forbidden, probably. The Qur'an says it's better not to, and that you should never do it to the point of losing control or if you have to do something important, be that prayer or a business decision, which I agree with. The prohibition comes from the hadith and sunna, which as has been pointed out are not binding or official doctrine. Honestly, I'm not sure how to answer this because a lot of it is stuff where I'm not sure of the views of the majority, or it's just on a different level so to speak. I'm sure just about ever Muslim would agree that Allah prizes mercy, but the way in which cultures practice that concept is different. I don't think it's merciful to force women out of the public spheres, others see that as okay. I think I'm right, because I'm human and we all think we're right about certain things, but a lot of this is almost more a cultural matter than doctrinal. If you're thinking of specific things, ask them, because I'm drawing kind of a blank because there's a lot of poo poo that could fall under what you might mean. Tendai fucked around with this message at 19:36 on Oct 16, 2015 |
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Oct 16, 2015 19:26
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I guess I'm asking stuff like, Abu Bakr vs Ali, what about the return of the caliphate, etc. Basically the major questions that divide Muslims and lead to intra-faith conflict. I'm not familiar with all the doctrinal differences but I understand that Shia and Sunni are fairly different overall. What are/where do you stand on the issues that divide the two?
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Oct 16, 2015 19:47
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OH! Okay. In that I consider myself Sunni. Actually, in general if I'm asked, I consider myself Sunni for that reason among others. I believe that if there is going to be a successor to Muhammad as the leader of the ummah then it should be someone chosen by the consensus of the ummah rather than someone from Muhammad's bloodline. However, I am also not an idiot and I realize that is literally impossible because of the diversity of cultures and viewpoints among Muslims worldwide. It's another reason to work towards more mutual understanding, but not something I'm sitting here going "drat we need a caliph, I can't handle this anymore!" about. I also disagree with the Shi'a idea that imams are/can be divinely guided rather than being just normal humans who are really well-studied and good at communicating that to people, as per what I talked about before about Muhammad being the last messenger/prophet/Allah-approved guy. Shi'a have more of a tendency to revere the physical -- shrines to saints or holy figures, that kind of thing -- and that's not something that really makes sense to me since it seems sort of close to worshiping a human. It's not something I think is Wrong or Bad or anything, just not how my concept of what Islam is works. I side with the Shi'a on what I see as their more pointed focus on the batin, the inner meaning, of the Qur'an. This is, from my reading, much less emphasized in Sunni traditions, but it is common to many if not most Sufi tariqa no matter which side of the successor-to-Muhammad divide they fall on.
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Oct 16, 2015 20:00
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One of my brother's friends is Muslim, and my brother drives him to mosque a lot for prayers. One time my brother asked me to come with him, but I wasn't sure if I should since I am a transgender woman. I don't "look" transgender, so it's not so much a safety issue as one of respect. What should I do if I do ever decide to go with them?
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Oct 16, 2015 20:06
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Mo Tzu posted:One of my brother's friends is Muslim, and my brother drives him to mosque a lot for prayers. One time my brother asked me to come with him, but I wasn't sure if I should since I am a transgender woman. I don't "look" transgender, so it's not so much a safety issue as one of respect. What should I do if I do ever decide to go with them? EDIT: Now I'm really curious about how pre-or-non-operative transgendered people pray in mosques, especially in areas where there's no cultural cross-dressing or gender-shifting tradition in any great amount.
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Oct 16, 2015 20:10
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Would you like to try living in a Muslim-majority country like Egypt or Malaysia or wherever (for a while or permanently)?
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Oct 16, 2015 23:31
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Per posted:Would you like to try living in a Muslim-majority country like Egypt or Malaysia or wherever (for a while or permanently)?
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Oct 17, 2015 00:02
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With regards to the rule of not letting non-Muslims enter Mecca and Medina, how is one's status as a Muslim determined by the Saudi authorities there?
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Oct 17, 2015 00:38
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HEY GAL posted:cats with stubby legs exist, so... look at this cat 
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Oct 17, 2015 01:49
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goose fleet posted:With regards to the rule of not letting non-Muslims enter Mecca and Medina, how is one's status as a Muslim determined by the Saudi authorities there? In particular, if I can piggyback, you mentioned earlier that Alawites have some not exactly usual beliefs. Are they banned from Mecca or otherwise legally discriminated against like, say, Ahmadiyyas are? Or do they still basically fit in the big tent?
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Oct 17, 2015 02:07
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goose fleet posted:With regards to the rule of not letting non-Muslims enter Mecca and Medina, how is one's status as a Muslim determined by the Saudi authorities there? P-Mack posted:In particular, if I can piggyback, you mentioned earlier that Alawites have some not exactly usual beliefs. Are they banned from Mecca or otherwise legally discriminated against like, say, Ahmadiyyas are? Also, random interesting thing: I believe this was the first year that applicants had to state whether they were Shi'a or Sunni. This caused some pretty sharp responses in the Islamic community online because to many/most people, it shouldn't matter since we're all Muslims. EDIT: Okay from what I'm seeing, if your family name is not traditionally Muslim, they require proof, unless you're from a country that puts religion on passports and yours is Muslim. I don't know if this is the law or just how it's practiced, but hoo boy there are some angry born-into-Islam-but-not-Arabic people who had to get certificates from their masjid to go. Understandably angry, I think. The fact that in practice at least they seem to be indicating that you're not a real, trustworthy Muslim without having the right kind of name is kind of against everything. Tendai fucked around with this message at 02:41 on Oct 17, 2015 |
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Oct 17, 2015 02:32
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Tendai posted:As per Saudi Arabian rules: "If the applicant has converted to Islam, an Islamic certificate must be presented; this needs to be notarized by an Islamic Center." I'm not sure how they deal with it in terms of children born into it, to be honest. That doesn't apply to me if I ever go, so it's not something I've looked at. If someone else who's done it who isn't a convert knows (pssst, Fizzil), please jump in because I don't see anything about it on the Saudi website. It may be something that's done through the agencies that are accredited by the Saudis to set up Hajj and Umrah trips for people. Anyhow, this is a good overview of the requirements. I didn't know this, i took it for granted because when i went to umra there weren't any hurdles for me (i think UAE citizens in general, i know a few shia who didn't face this). This is all sorts of awful, but thats par the course for saudi arabia i guess 
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Oct 17, 2015 22:44
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I kind of figured after I got a general idea of what they seem to use as standard. It's one of those things where I am completely unsurprised because of course the Saudis did that.
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Oct 17, 2015 22:59
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at least our holy cities aren't full of fuckwads, rome's full of italians and istanbul, as far as i can see from the internet, is largely cats
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Oct 17, 2015 23:15
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How does a mabrur Hajj differ from a vanilla Hajj? It seems the things that make a Hajj mabrur are things I'd have taken for granted as being part of the Hajj in general. I was looking at the website for Tabung Haji, which is kind of like an investment fund to help people save for the Hajj: http://www.tabunghaji.gov.my/ and they promise to help depositors get their mabrur Hajj. They also have a visitor counter! Tabung Haji posted:Alhamdulillah, this portal has been visited 10,902,742 times.
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Oct 18, 2015 12:10
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A brief The More You Know moment before I answer Elissimpark's question: To say that a Hajj is mabrur is to indicate that it's been accepted by Allah, the word mabrur comes from the root birr, if I remember right, which means something like righteousness or the correct way. Anyhow, if one has a mabrur Hajj it's believed that all sins and transgressions (save those involving other people who you have transgressed against, who you need to do right by on your own) are wiped clean. While it's specified that no one but Allah knows whether or not one's Hajj is mabrur in the end, there are some relatively clear conditions (every list I know of has different things, but the basic ideas are shared in all that I've seen) that Muslims are given, so it's not a divine crapshoot or anything: Sincerity in belief: Believe, truly and heartily, that there is no god but Allah. Show this commitment through the following of the pillars of Islam. This also carries the idea of making sure you're doing the Hajj only for Allah, not for reasons of ego or pleasure. So, basically, "be Muslim in the most profound sense of the word." Sincerity in preparation: This ties in a bit to what I'll say below, but basically... make sure you're not bringing haram poo poo to Mecca or using money that you made through your side-job as a hired killer who drowns his victims in pig blood. It also ties into the idea above of not doing it for pleasure, in my opinion; in the sense that you should prepare in a way that is about Allah and not with $10,000 per day luxury tents with butlers. Seeking forgiveness of people before you go, righting any wrongs you may have committed or can fix, also falls under this header. Go with a clean conscience, essentially. Sincerity in behavior: Be kind to the others going on Hajj. Help your fellow pilgrims in any way you can. You should always do this (for them and everyone else), but during this time make a special effort. You are all going to the most holy site in Islam, and one of the reasons I've always thought Allah made that requirement was so that all Muslims could feel at least once a sense of deep and profound brotherhood with other Muslims, without the international or tribal issues. Even for just a few seconds. Sincerity in action: I tend to put this together with sincerity in belief, since they kind of have to go together. But, basically, do the parts of the Hajj because you believe in them, not because everyone else is doing it. Other people will add others, you can find lists online that get incredibly specific, but most of what I've seen can in some way or another be put in one of those categories. Everyone should try to make their Hajj mabrur, but interestingly it's also made fairly clear that it's a hard thing to do. Islam is pretty accepting of the idea that nobody's perfect; Hajj is still seen to have immense value even if it isn't exactingly mabrur, since in and of itself it cultivates values and ideas which are mabrur. It shouldn't be an easy thing to clean your sin slate, so to speak. Oh, right, there was an actual question before I started rambling off Elissimpark posted:How does a mabrur Hajj differ from a vanilla Hajj? It seems the things that make a Hajj mabrur are things I'd have taken for granted as being part of the Hajj in general.  )
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Oct 18, 2015 15:50
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Thanks for that, Tendai, I couldn't find anything that succinct online! And yes, Tabung Haji would be ensuring that the money for the Hajj is halal - they go into some detail about that on the website. Apologies if that link comes up in Malay - I thought I had linked to the English site. If you're interested, click on the little globe underneath the header for language options. I think the home page still shows some Malay regardless of language choice though.
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Oct 18, 2015 23:33
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I worry sometimes that I might be being TOO succinct, but on the other hand trying to incorporate every definition or disagreement would be insane and I don't hate myself that much. It did indeed come up in Malay, I was wondering "Huh, what did I say that could be interpreted as me speaking Malay?" but now it makes sense. I didn't even notice the globe. And yeah, that does fit with what I thought then. It's basically taking some of the responsibility off the shoulders of the person going and ensuring that at least one small detail of a mabrur Hajj is observed in terms of the money being more scrupulously halal. Makes sense to me.
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Oct 19, 2015 03:44
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P-Mack posted:Are you supposed to do the shortest great circle route. i.e. due north if you're in Alaska? Figure the shortest aeronautical route towards Makkah.
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Oct 19, 2015 05:31
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ashgromnies posted:I guess I'm asking stuff like, Abu Bakr vs Ali, what about the return of the caliphate, etc. I would add this to speak for myself. When I "reverted" to Islam, I was taken to the Masjid (Mosque) by 2 Shia women, and introduced to the Sunni scholar. When i asked about the differences, I was told not to worry about the differences (even though they are stark at times). the more important thing was that I am on the path to discover Islam. I became Muslim and followed the Sunni path. Educated myself with scholars from the Iqwan (Muslim Brotherhood, Egypt and Algeria), the Jamaati Islami (Pakistan), the Salafi (Saudi Arabia) and many others. These are major movements among the Sunni and, though theologically different, the Shia are still considered Muslims by the majority of these Sunni movements. In these groups, I never felt the need to hate or dislike the Shia, quite the opposite. I still maintain a strong loyalty to the Shia women that helped me become a Muslim and will always use that as a prime example of how Muslims need to be unified across religious sectarian lines. I think that based on my experiences and Islamic education that this is pretty mainstream and can be most notably seen in the West (where pan-arab/persian politics doesnt apply), Islamic universities like Al Azhar (among many other mixed universities) and during hajj.
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Oct 19, 2015 05:51
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Since it controls the territory that Mecca and Medina are on, does Saudi Arabia try to project itself as the center of the Muslim world?
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Oct 19, 2015 05:56
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goose fleet posted:Since it controls the territory that Mecca and Medina are on, does Saudi Arabia try to project itself as the center of the Muslim world? I think there is some sentiment like this among some Saudi groups and politicians, but this is not particular to these Muslim Arab groups from that region. It probably stems from their culture from the days before Islam as Pagan and Christian Arab tribes (Quraish) used to take turns maintaining the Ka'abah and viewed it as having special status for their tribe. In Islam, God plays no favourites, except in acts of righteousness. So, He has no favourite people or group, all are equal in His eyes. Ultimately, the Saud's know this. "O mankind! We created you from a single (pair) of a male and a female, and made you into nations and tribes, that ye may know each other (not that ye may despise (each other). Verily the most honoured of you in the sight of Allah is (he who is) the most righteous of you. And Allah has full knowledge and is well acquainted (with all things)." Qur'an 49:13
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Oct 19, 2015 06:25
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goose fleet posted:Since it controls the territory that Mecca and Medina are on, does Saudi Arabia try to project itself as the center of the Muslim world? That being said, from the mid-1970s to the mid-to-late 90s and possibly up till now (I haven't looked at it as much now as I have when I was thinking of converting and right after), the Saudi government was pretty aggressive in terms of proselytizing and pushing Saudi-brand Islam, they've used billions of dollars primarily from oil assets to do this; some people (derogatorily) call it petro-Islam because of the funding source. This is partly to try to neutralize Shi'a Iran from what I understand, but the effect has been worldwide. They've funded the really conservative madrassahs in Pakistan and Afghanistan, and pushed money everywhere else. The New Statesmen has a pretty good summary of it that I'm going to steal: quote:The soaring oil price created by the 1973 embargo – when Arab petroleum producers cut off supplies to the US to protest against the Americans’ military support for Israel – gave the kingdom all the petrodollars it needed to export its idiosyncratic form of Islam. The old military jihad to spread the faith was now replaced by a cultural offensive. The Saudi-based Muslim World League opened offices in every region inhabited by Muslims, and the Saudi ministry of religion printed and distributed Wahhabi translations of the Quran, Wahhabi doctrinal texts and the writings of modern thinkers whom the Saudis found congenial, such as Sayyids Abul-A’la Maududi and Qutb, to Muslim communities throughout the Middle East, Africa, Indonesia, the United States and Europe. In all these places, they funded the building of Saudi-style mosques with Wahhabi preachers and established madrasas that provided free education for the poor, with, of course, a Wahhabi curriculum. As an aside, this has led to some truly loving hideous Saudi-funded mosques around the world. Like the McMansions of holy sites; too much marble, too much green neon, too big. EDIT: Yeah, it's still the same today. The Independent had an article about it that talks about how pervasive Saudi influence can be and the amount of money spent on it. EDIT 2: LATER THAN EDIT 1: And also totally unrelated to the post above. Apparently there's a pretty obvious Onion-derived satire site by some Muslim dudes, called The Hummus News. Much to my surprise, there were a couple funny things on there. "Local Imam Weighs In: 'The Dress Is Blue And Haram'" kind of made me snort. Ahahaha "Muslims Finally Condemn Ebola, Expert Not Fooled" Tendai fucked around with this message at 15:32 on Oct 19, 2015 |
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Oct 19, 2015 14:48
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HEY GAL posted:at least our holy cities aren't full of fuckwads, rome's full of italians lol. Sorry i was just reading back in the thread. I got a laugh from this. Im Italian heritage (2 sets grand parents).
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Oct 20, 2015 15:32
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Per posted:Would you like to try living in a Muslim-majority country like Egypt or Malaysia or wherever (for a while or permanently)? I am considering it. I have an opportunity to live in the UAE, but even though i share the same religion, i think the culture differences may be a huge hurdle for me and my family.
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Oct 20, 2015 15:35
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Amun Khonsu posted:Im Italian heritage
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Oct 20, 2015 15:46
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Mo Tzu posted:One of my brother's friends is Muslim, and my brother drives him to mosque a lot for prayers. One time my brother asked me to come with him, but I wasn't sure if I should since I am a transgender woman. I don't "look" transgender, so it's not so much a safety issue as one of respect. What should I do if I do ever decide to go with them? Ill give you my opinion based on my experience guiding non-muslims in the community. Even though being transgendered may not be acceptable for Muslims, it should not make the mosque closed to you for visitation as a non-muslim. Note that men and women are seperated for prayers. Some talks or events may be seperated or may not. If your brothers friend knows you are transgender, he should act as a guide for you through this practice if for some reason you are to be seperated based on gender. As a non-muslim observer while prayer is happening, you will likely observe from behind and not expected to join prayers anyhow. Often, when i had non-muslim visitors, men and women, i kept them together in the mens hall but in the rear of the mosque to observe because it can be intimidating not to be near your guide and have easy access after prayers through the crowds or to ask questions. If no one knows you are transgender, save your brother, there is no need to tell people as it may create confusion among ppl who have not resolved the possibility of a transgendered person visiting beforehand. The mosque is open to non-muslim visitors of all kinds. That includes transgender people. No one should expect you to pretend to act like a muslim except to come to the mosque dressed modestly. As a woman, you may be asked to cover your hair, or maybe not. It depends on the ppl there, but that is normal. If i can help further, please let me know.
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Oct 20, 2015 15:59
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Amun Khonsu posted:Ill give you my opinion based on my experience guiding non-muslims in the community. Even though being transgendered may not be acceptable for Muslims, it should not make the mosque closed to you for visitation as a non-muslim. Thank you, that's a very helpful response.
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Oct 20, 2015 16:25
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That was a much better response than mine so read it Really though, what Amun said is right; I haven't been to a mosque where visitors were expected to pray and know everything and do everything right. Every one I've ever been to has been pretty welcoming and excited that someone wants to learn. If you're lucky and go during Ramadan and are there at for the iftar meal when the fast is broken, it's even more amazing because a lot of mosques will do a sort of potluck thing and then you have these older woman basically shoving amazing food and fresh juice at you and it's pretty neat. This talk (the whole of it, not just the food) actually makes me wish there was at least a study center of some kind near me  Now that I'm not a dumb shy 20 year old.
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Oct 20, 2015 16:29
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Tendai posted:This talk (the whole of it, not just the food) actually makes me wish there was at least a study center of some kind near me I know you didnt ask, but just incase you havent thought of it and are interested  Im not sure where you are, but you can always delve into online courses if not local seminars.I have old friends who have started up this set of seminars but they are local (not online courses) and may or may not be near you. Its very successful and I know some of the scholars who are great people. http://almaghrib.org Or, even though this is a UK set of online courses, they are online and many of them can be taken at anytime in your timezone. some courses are free. I dont know these people but a few friends recommended this to me. http://www.tayyibunonline.com Here is another very good online one, I may have met some of them at events but dont know them personally. http://www.islamiconlineuniversity.com These are free courses here: http://www.islamiconlineuniversity.com/diploma
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Oct 20, 2015 17:46
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Amun Khonsu posted:Im not sure where you are, but you can always delve into online courses if not local seminars. And okay that's really cool, thank you for those! I'm going to check into them. It's mostly the social interaction side that I'd like now, I feel like I've had too much time focused on study and introverted thought and not enough time being all "hey cool these people are like me!"
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Oct 20, 2015 17:47
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Tendai posted:About 9000 feet up in northern New Mexico. Not a big Muslim area lol. I hear you there. I've travelled through Northern New Mexico. Beautiful countryside and very rural
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Oct 20, 2015 18:04
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Apologies for any mistakes. I've been hearing an awful lot about Islam for all sorts of people and the muslims who speak on everything I've seen are crazy. The BBC does not bring on moderates very often. There's the Niqab, Burka and other veils to varying degrees. Is this a cultural thing? Everyone wearing them says it's religious, everyone who doesn't seems to say it's cultural. Does it come down to some cultures have decided those pieces of clothing are a symbol of faith and that's where the enforcement in some countries springs from? I'm also curious about consumption of alcohol and pork. I've heard stories of muslims coming to Europe, accidentally drinking or eating something they shouldn't and then deciding "oh well, too late now" and never bothering with some aspects of Sharia again. Also, Sharia Law means law law doesn't it? How standardised is it? Is it like Leviticus in that it's written in the respective holy book adhere to it to varying degrees?
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Oct 21, 2015 10:01
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Hazzard posted:Apologies for any mistakes. I've been hearing an awful lot about Islam for all sorts of people and the muslims who speak on everything I've seen are crazy. The BBC does not bring on moderates very often. No problem, no need to apologize It is both a religious and a culture thing. The Shari'ah on women's dress indicates that a woman should cover all of her body except her hands, face and feet, according to most scholars. However, the Prophets wives wore face veils (niqab). People (typically in the Gulf States) interpret this to mean that all women are required to wear face veils, but this is not true since only the Prophets wives were required to wear them, not the rest of the women in his time. The Burka is a cultural dress that existed among the Pashtune tribes before Islam came to South Asia (back then Afghanistan, Bangledesh, Pakistan was all India prior to British colonialism). When Islam came there, it was by conquest of India. The cultural dress of the Burka naturally fit in with the expectation of their Arab (Guld State) rulers and the Pashtunes kept the dress wear. Today, the Pashtunes (Afghanistan and Pakistani Taliban) interpret their cultural dress as mandatory for women. You find similar "one piece" design styles on the full face veil that cover women head to toe including the face in Iran and Sudan. Alcohol and pork are forbidden in Islam, with the exception being in very extreme circumstances where there is no food. If a Muslim in the west accidentally ingests anything that is forbidden, he can simply stop and comply with the Shari'ah, Allah is Most Forgiving and Most Merciful according to the Qur'an provided that we try our best. I have accidentally ingested these things. I didnt feel the need to throw my hands up and say "wtf, I might as well abandon my religion and put bacon on my cheese burger". The same is true for my wife and many of my friends that have had the same thing happen to them. I suspect that those are just "wive's tales", as even the non-practicing Muslims that I have known over the years will not touch pork for the life of them, even though they aren't following the faith.i know this will be too technical, so I apologize before hand. If you need further clarifications, im happy to answer. Shari'ah is an Arabic word that means "Law". To say "Shari'ah Law" is like saying "Law, Law" in two languages. Every country, state, city and local authority has a Shari'ah, so do most religions that I know of. 1)Islamic Shari'ah is 100% standardized as far as the core tenets of Islam, 5 pillars, 6 beliefs etc. 2)The differences are in the breakdown. There are 5 Madhabs (schools of thought based on early scholarly works), some say there are 6 madhab which Muslims use break down the core tenets based on theological thought. For the Sunni the scholarly jurisprudence come from these people, Imam Hanafi, Imam Shafi'i, Imam Hanbali and Imam Maliki. For the Shi'a, the jurisprudence comes from Imam Ja'far as-Sadiq (Jafarri jurisprudence). Some say the 6th school of thought is the Zaidi Madhab (sect of Shi'a from Yemen) based on the Imam Zayd ibn 'Ali. All of these (Sunni and Shi'a) are valid Muslim juristic schools of thought to use to interpret into Shari'ah, according to most modern scholars today, though sunni and shia scholars may differ on who is the more "original or proper" followers of Islam. 3)After our scholars filter their ideas through one of these trains of thought, decisions are encoded in shari'ah based on locality by a Shari'ah Council. So, Shari'ah on a topic in one country may be different in another based on local Shari'ah councils decisions made from consultation with the Qur'an, Madhab, Hadiths, precident set by other Fatwah, modern technology, needs of the people in that country or region, etc. So, on the issue of standardization, the core tenets of Islam (5 pillars, 6 beliefs), absolutely standard and unchangeable. Less standardized depending on what school of thought you are following, location you are living, technological advancements, and needs of the people. It is not in a book. It is evolving, living text and often found in huge volumes of books. Amun Khonsu fucked around with this message at 11:38 on Oct 21, 2015 |
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Oct 21, 2015 11:02
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This isn't Muslim, but Buddhist temple cats are a thing like mosque cats are, and here is a Taiwanese kitten who was rescued from the walls of a temple and will beccome a temple cat when it is grown: http://lovemeow.com/2015/10/orphaned-kitten-rescued-by-monks/
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Oct 21, 2015 12:49
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HEY GAL posted:This isn't Muslim, but Buddhist temple cats are a thing like mosque cats are, and here is a Taiwanese kitten who was rescued from the walls of a temple and will beccome a temple cat when it is grown: heh, cool. I did a religious/cultural event photoshoot at the Buddhist Temple here on Buddha's B-Day celebration for their community (free of charge ofc  ) and they had a temple cat and temple dog heh
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Oct 21, 2015 13:16
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