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Skwirl posted:I think I'm just going to become an electrician or something, my granddad has an in with the union. Do this and don't look back
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Oct 16, 2015 23:37
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Part of the tip removal thing is also that restaurants can't find cooks. Like seriously, so many kids go to culinary school that they literally can't afford to work for $10/hr so they go FoH instead.
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Oct 17, 2015 01:51
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Chef De Cuisinart posted:Part of the tip removal thing is also that restaurants can't find cooks. Like seriously, so many kids go to culinary school that they literally can't afford to work for $10/hr so they go FoH instead. gently caress 'em if they can't pay enough to get staff. This is the inevitable result of an industry that still pays what it did when I was in high school, fifteen loving years ago.
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Oct 17, 2015 02:28
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Skwirl posted:Has anyone actually been arrested for picking feathers off the ground? Also you're suggestion of having PSAs that say "don't tip" would also completely gently caress workers in restaurants that only pay minimum wage. I do agree that the separate minimum wage should be eliminated, but I've also only worked in states that already don't allow that. Why would it make minimum wage workers in restaurants any more hosed than minimum wage workers who don't get tips now (in or out of restaurants)?
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Oct 17, 2015 03:59
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Liquid Communism posted:gently caress 'em if they can't pay enough to get staff. This is the inevitable result of an industry that still pays what it did when I was in high school, fifteen loving years ago. Wage stagnation isn't just a culinary thing bro, it's affecting everyone who isn't in tech or a specialized trade. The U.S. really, really needs some serious wage overhaul. Liveable wage isn't something people should have to aspire to.
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Oct 17, 2015 03:59
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pile of brown posted:Why would it make minimum wage workers in restaurants any more hosed than minimum wage workers who don't get tips now (in or out of restaurants)? Because with tips they were making more than minimum wage.
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Oct 17, 2015 04:10
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So by getting hosed you mean earning their agreed upon wages like in every other job ever. Got it. So hosed.
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Oct 17, 2015 06:11
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They shouldn't have to depend on strangers not being cheap fucksticks on the tip to be able to pay the loving rent.
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Oct 17, 2015 06:39
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pile of brown posted:So by getting hosed you mean earning their agreed upon wages like in every other job ever. Got it. So hosed.
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Oct 17, 2015 07:40
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I keep seeing talk about getting into computer/coding work, are you doing this with a degree or just learning on your own. Sounds like a way better opportunity than serving. I'm getting to the point where in over it again.
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Oct 17, 2015 07:46
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Skwirl posted:I mean they would be making less money than they were before, significantly less. 3/4ths of their previous income less. I think hosed is a good term to describe seeing 75% of your income go away. I don't think you've been paying attention.
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Oct 17, 2015 07:57
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goodness posted:I keep seeing talk about getting into computer/coding work, are you doing this with a degree or just learning on your own. Sounds like a way better opportunity than serving. I'm getting to the point where in over it again. Start out by working helpdesk. It's customer service, you'll still run into a lot of idiots, but pay is reasonable at most places, and with some experience you can find a niche and focus on that by getting certs, education, training, etc. There is a lot more to IT than just coding as well - storage, databases, networking, sysadmin, virtualization, etc.
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Oct 17, 2015 08:20
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Liquid Communism posted:Jumping ship kinda rocks. As much as I don't like parts of my job, and really miss baking, I pulled down double what I did at the bakery already this year as a computer janitor. That's after my health insurance doubled, too. Money is so bad in Houston right now I'm thinking of applying to the cheese cake factory just to make rent. Two months ago I was making like 1.3k a week. The last month and change has been less than 400$ a week. It's a god drat nightmare.
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Oct 17, 2015 10:21
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Secret Spoon posted:Money is so bad in Houston right now I'm thinking of applying to the cheese cake factory just to make rent. Two months ago I was making like 1.3k a week. The last month and change has been less than 400$ a week. It's a god drat nightmare. October was always rough in Houston when I was in the industry, and November was hit or miss. December started to get good again, between holiday parties and more people having time off, family visiting, etc.
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Oct 17, 2015 14:38
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Shooting Blanks posted:Start out by working helpdesk. It's customer service, you'll still run into a lot of idiots, but pay is reasonable at most places, and with some experience you can find a niche and focus on that by getting certs, education, training, etc. There is a lot more to IT than just coding as well - storage, databases, networking, sysadmin, virtualization, etc. This. I'm in support engineering, meaning I'm a set of smart hands to do physical layer work for remote administrators. It's nothing I couldn't train a monkey with the ability to have attention to detail for, and pays pretty decently. If you want to get into the ground floor on this stuff, all you need is to be able to interview well and demonstrate that you're not an idiot who thinks they're too good for labor and is going to quit the first time they're asked to chase cable across a hot dusty room all shift for a week. A+ certification is a joke as far as actually teaching you anything, but it will get you entry level interviews and if you've got the skills to be posting on an internet forum you could probably pass it with a month of studying a decent guidebook.
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Oct 17, 2015 14:47
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goodness posted:I keep seeing talk about getting into computer/coding work, are you doing this with a degree or just learning on your own. Sounds like a way better opportunity than serving. I'm getting to the point where in over it again. I don't have a highscool diploma. I self studied an A+ and CCNA and pretty much instantly got a part time job assisting a dude do IT stuff for small/medium local businesses. Stuff like setting up desktops, running/pulling network cable, following basic written instructions (Create this user account, install this software) and "accounting" like recording that X version of CAD software was installed onto Y Computer at Z client using this license key. $15/hr plus $20 for travel and $20 flat fee per job paid under the table. Next job was full 40 hours a week, $13 an hour with benefits and PTO. Got a $7 raise at that place once I was fully onboarded and productive. Took a job in Chicago for $65k/year as a Network Engineer and "work from home tuesday and thursday" (aka, nobody actually does anything, so your workweek is 24 hours including lunch). Left after another year for $70k doing automation and infrastructure tooling for software development, also in Chicago. All of my previous employers as well as my current one are struggling to find competent engineering staff. Nobody cares about "Bachelors in Systems Administration" because that doesn't mean poo poo: people want to see Cisco/Microsoft/VMWare/Red Hat certifications and the only prerequisites for those are your own time. X years in BoH is also a really easy sell for demonstrating work ethic, functioning in a team without being a baby, etc. Any entry level engineering hire is going to be dead weight for a certain amount of time, and in my experience most employers will happily choose a candidate with a technical certificate and a demonstrated X years of being a functioning adult over a recent grad with a degree from a random school where the curriculum has a good shot of being completely irrelevant. The bar is really low. If you're at all interested, definitely look into it, there are a bunch of threads in SH/SC with great resources in the OP and regular posters who will happily answer any questions you have.
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Oct 17, 2015 16:51
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Misono sale at Korin this weekend -- overkill for what little cooking I do now, but ahh, nostalgia.
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Oct 17, 2015 17:25
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Last night with my wage and tips combined I made $41/hr, and I would trade that for all the times I work and make $12/hr. On the other hand: I do like treating serving and competing with my co-workers, it's fun.
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Oct 17, 2015 17:27
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Skwirl posted:I mean they would be making less money than they were before, significantly less. 3/4ths of their previous income less. I think hosed is a good term to describe seeing 75% of your income go away. So did you not read my post, not understand it, or are you just being deliberately obtuse? Also if you think your services are worth $30+/hr why wouldn't you get paid that by your employer? And if they aren't worth that much, why should you?
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Oct 17, 2015 18:20
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Skwirl posted:I mean they would be making less money than they were before, significantly less. 3/4ths of their previous income less. I think hosed is a good term to describe seeing 75% of your income go away. Do you not realize that coming to work, setting tables, taking orders, dropping food, and talking to guests probably shouldn't average double the income(in NY at least) of the guys in the back who objectively do more work? You're arguing that the current system is fine because servers make a lot when they have high average checks! But cooks average $10-15/hr across the whole US, no matter their experience or skill level. Or we could just do away with tipping, raise prices, and institute a service charge and pay everyone at least 35k salary.
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Oct 17, 2015 18:46
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goodness posted:I keep seeing talk about getting into computer/coding work, are you doing this with a degree or just learning on your own. Sounds like a way better opportunity than serving. I'm getting to the point where in over it again. I have a bunch of certs, but have been in IT for a long time and for the past 7 years have management departments instead of doing actual work. I saved a bunch of money to open my restaurant, used it all while not making money, closed it down and went back to IT. Now I'm in a mid level job again making 6k a month before any OT. It's nice to be making money again. Chef De Cuisinart posted:Do you not realize that coming to work, setting tables, taking orders, dropping food, and talking to guests probably shouldn't average double the income(in NY at least) of the guys in the back who objectively do more work? gently caress you CDC do you know how hard it is to take drink orders?!?! I mean not make the drink or anything but just ask people what they want and write it down? It deserves 40 bucks an hour. Edit: also the guys in back are usually brown. They don't need money. Errant Gin Monks fucked around with this message at 18:56 on Oct 17, 2015 |
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Oct 17, 2015 18:53
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Errant Gin Monks posted:gently caress you CDC do you know how hard it is to take drink orders?!?! I mean not make the drink or anything but just ask people what they want and write it down? It deserves 40 bucks an hour. Hey man, drink orders are hard when you're busy in the back chatting with so and so about their kids and how you only made $250 in cash tips today, and you actually didn't pay in any tax last year because you abuse the system lol. e: I have actually been told 'Mexicans don't need more money, they just like to work.' I quit that job the next day.
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Oct 17, 2015 19:55
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Chef De Cuisinart posted:e: I have actually been told 'Mexicans don't need more money, they just like to work.' I quit that job the next day. Jesus Christ people are loving idiots.
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Oct 17, 2015 20:05
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The president of Korin said I had good sharpening technique! In 30m maybe I win the high rollers raffle. Also, I know we're all joking about taking drink orders, but my roomie got his copy of the nomad cookbook and gently caress those recipes are complicated.
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Oct 17, 2015 20:56
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Chef De Cuisinart posted:Hey man, drink orders are hard when you're busy in the back chatting with so and so about their kids and how you only made $250 in cash tips today, and you actually didn't pay in any tax last year because you abuse the system lol. I don't even know what I'll do when I start to get paid hourly and then actually have to work hourly to get paid, instead of cashing out $400 in two 5 hour shifts on friday/saturday and then getting cut early with no sidework on weekdays.  I've worked at similar places in CA, except instead of "no tips but everybody gets paid" its "everybody gets paid and splits tips", and yeah it never made a ton of sense to have "servers". Everyone is multipurpose, multirole and does what they can to help food get made and people leave happy. The only distinction was that two guys get paid more hourly and they're the only ones allowed to touch the dangerous equipment or beer kegs. It owned, the "Hi Welcome to ____ I'm ____ can I start you off with some drinks" server is hopefully dying and never should have existed in the first place. 12 rats tied together fucked around with this message at 23:11 on Oct 17, 2015 |
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Oct 17, 2015 23:08
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Reiz posted:I don't even know what I'll do when I start to get paid hourly and then actually have to work hourly to get paid, instead of cashing out $400 in two 5 hour shifts on friday/saturday and then getting cut early with no sidework on weekdays. Doing it like fine dining would be great. Section captains ensuring everything is running smoothly, table attendants filling drinks and clearing the tables and food runners hitting everyone at the appropriate time. No more sections where people can get weeded, just teams of people handling sections and encouraging great service with good teamwork. It quickly weeds out the poo poo heads and makes it so the customers experience is great and everyone can get paid and have a goal to work toward. For instance Captaining would be sought after and the people best able to interface with the guests can get that position while people who really want to be in the service industry but aren't that great at customer interaction and banter can be drat good food runners or attendants and still make good money instead of being poo poo on bussers that walk out with 30 bucks a night.
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Oct 17, 2015 23:13
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I am totally on board with the fact that BOH makes criminally little money and that tipping is a terrible way to run a business, but the old, "You're just standing there writing down a list of food items, that's not work at all, trying MAKING THEM" canard is stupid and counterproductive. Proper serving involves managing your tables' expectations, helping them design the best possible meal for their tastes, timing their meal so it all arrives in order, and communicating clearly with the kitchen so everything comes out just right. Obviously there are lazy servers who just write stuff down and make a mess of stuff, but there are also lovely cooks who make a bouquet garni that includes kale and spearmint (I swear to loving god, that just happened). Serving is a difficult job to do well, and the people who do it should be well-compensated. Cooking good food is a difficult job to do well, and the people who do it should be well-compensated. The elimination of tipping is an opportunity to level the playing field by paying cooks more. Let's not all be crabs in the pot.
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Oct 18, 2015 01:50
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There are two main issues with moving to a no tipping model, with the assumption of living wages paid across the board: A - Convincing the American public to pay higher prices for their meals, whether 20% is simply built into menu prices or via a deeper dive into what the prices need to be. B - Convincing skilled FOH staff to accept lower overall take home pay than they're accustomed to (as has been mentioned several times) with the benefit being more stable income and the knowledge that BOH staff have historically been getting screwed at most places, and won't be any longer.
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Oct 18, 2015 04:32
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If I'm tipping 20% right now and prices go up 20% while at the same time meaning I don't need to tip anymore then I don't really see any controversy personally when it comes to me spending "more" when I go out.
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Oct 18, 2015 04:35
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Shooting Blanks posted:There are two main issues with moving to a no tipping model, with the assumption of living wages paid across the board: This happens often in many industries when times or technology changes, or due to outsourcing or myriad other factors. It's time for it to happen in this industry. Some people will adapt, some will leave for other industries and others will be attracted to the new conditions. If the small examples that have been tried hold true for the rest of the industry the customer experience will improve, and income will be more consistent for employees. It may even be found that fewer higher compensated employees in a cooperative environment get just as much work done and end up costing less in labor dollars. It's hard to make completely accurate predictions across a system as complex as this but when the only objections are "gently caress you got mine" from an over compensated sector it's hard to give them much merit. pile of brown fucked around with this message at 05:12 on Oct 18, 2015 |
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Oct 18, 2015 05:04
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Kenning posted:Serving is a difficult job to do well, and the people who do it should be well-compensated. Cooking good food is a difficult job to do well, and the people who do it should be well-compensated. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xi_ieNt9cZA
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Oct 18, 2015 05:08
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we kind of have that captain thing going on where I work. Everyone runs food and the it actually runs smoothly. We are allowed to team up where I work. So I closed tonight, and the other closer hates selling wine because they don't know much about it. We decided to split responsibility and share tips and have one server assistant assigned to us. I greeted tables, sold wine and food, helped maintain table presence as well as cleanliness, she put orders in and kept up our boh responsibilities. Sa bro kept water filled and helped me bus. I prefer working this way because we alway flip tables way faster, have smaller breaks in service, and generally have a higher costumer satisfaction rating. I'm glad she was back there because our new sous chef had some trouble with qa on the line and she helped curb those two or so mistakes. Sa bro rules as well, he always try's to sell bottled water or peligrino. I say do away with tipping, move to hourly, and it will make restaurants much better for everyone. Not just the people who work there, but for the guests as well. It will open up the restaurant to run in a far more effective manner.
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Oct 18, 2015 06:18
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nuru posted:If I'm tipping 20% right now and prices go up 20% while at the same time meaning I don't need to tip anymore then I don't really see any controversy personally when it comes to me spending "more" when I go out. The problem is the psychology of it. Simple example: You have a wife and 2 kids, you go out for the same meal every week or 2 at the same restaurant. For years. Til now, your prices were $20 each on your entrees, and $10 each for the kids. Total is $60, and you normally tip between 15-20% based on service. You go in one week and without warning, your entrees are now $24 each, and $12 each for the kids. Your $60 bill just became $72 - not enough to break you, but enough to be irksome. Waiter comes by, you ask about it, and you're informed that they've done away with tipping and adjusted prices to simplify the bill. Some people will accept this. Some people will feel betrayed - prices changed, but the food didn't? Some people will feel they've lost agency in the matter. The fact is that the vast majority of the people who haven't worked in hospitality don't understand the wage mechanics behind the scenes. Most of them probably don't care. It takes careful explanation to make people understand why menu prices may be higher, even if the total bill isn't. It's even harder for existing restaurants - all of a sudden, the place you've been going to for years just bumps their menu prices with no warning? Yes, it can be done. Even with a national concerted effort (which won't happen without legislation), it will take years, and it will put a hell of a lot of restaurants out of business. Maybe that's a good thing in the long run, maybe not. But these implications are much farther reaching than just equalizing pay between BOH and FOH in the long run. And for the record - I still think it should be done. I just don't know the best way to go about it.
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Oct 18, 2015 06:56
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Y'all should follow @chefjacqueslamerde on Instagram if you don't already
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Oct 18, 2015 10:04
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idiotsavant posted:Y'all should follow @chefjacqueslamerde on Instagram if you don't already One of the best instagrams ever.
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Oct 18, 2015 11:51
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Sunday brunch for 80 wedding-goers and our captain is an hour late and plastered on arrival. So drunk. She got out at 2 am last night and was scheduled to return at 7 am. One member of staff starts vomiting and leaves. Another staff is believed to have walked off the job in the thick of it, but in actuality she hid in the basement because stress.
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Oct 18, 2015 20:55
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I used to smile bemusedly at unionized FoH and now I'm reminded that I should wait a few years and see how this whole tip credit shakes down before I think about opening.
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Oct 19, 2015 02:47
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i'd love to know thoughts and feelings from non-servers on hosting industry nights.
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Oct 19, 2015 02:57
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Kenning posted:the old, "You're just standing there writing down a list of food items, that's not work at all, trying MAKING THEM" canard is stupid and counterproductive each server gets to hear this three times for every time they go to BOH and loudly complain how they only got tipped for [insert entire day's worth of cook's pay] in the 2 hours they were working before they got cut
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Oct 19, 2015 06:12
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The forced rivalry between FOH and BOH that exists some places is so weird! Today for the first time, during one of those stupid mental rushes that make you want to cry, I realized I was yelling at people, rather than being yelled at, for the first time in my life! For the first time in my entire existence, I am not society's Yelled-At Guy! I know livejournal posts in the thread are lame. But none of you can yell at me for it. That's not who I am anymore.
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Oct 19, 2015 06:58
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