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The only situation where I'd allow prebuffs is when you're done having a dialogue with the rival solar/deathlord/rakshasa queen/lunar dogfucker and it's clear it will only end in battle. I'd like it if that was an explicit exception to a general rule instead of something you have to divine with yarrow sticks to Interpret The Will of Holden and Morke.
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Oct 17, 2015 18:52
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Nihnoz posted:The only situation where I'd allow prebuffs is when you're done having a dialogue with the rival solar/deathlord/rakshasa queen/lunar dogfucker and it's clear it will only end in battle. I'd like it if that was an explicit exception to a general rule instead of something you have to divine with yarrow sticks to Interpret The Will of Holden and Morke. Ainz-sama casting buffs.mp4
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Oct 17, 2015 19:14
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Nihnoz posted:The only situation where I'd allow prebuffs is when you're done having a dialogue with the rival solar/deathlord/rakshasa queen/lunar dogfucker and it's clear it will only end in battle. I'd like it if that was an explicit exception to a general rule instead of something you have to divine with yarrow sticks to Interpret The Will of Holden and Morke. It'd be funny if your rival also starts activating scene-long buffs, and it ends up becoming a duel of who can stack up the most effects.
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Oct 17, 2015 19:45
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Bedlamdan posted:It'd be Exalted 2.x if your rival also starts activating scene-long buffs, and it ends up becoming a duel of who can stack up the most effects.
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Oct 17, 2015 19:49
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The whole concept of 'form charms' is supposed to hearken back to kung fu films where the two combatants go "OH HO, YOU ARE NOW FACING A MASTER OF WING CHUN!", "OH REALLY?! WELL TIGER SCHOOL IS MUCH STRONGER THAN WING CHUN!!" while dropping into a weird rear end poses right before they start fighting. I would go so far as to say 'walking around in crane style' is actually impossible. It's a combat pose not a buff. Do not treat it like a buff spell in a video game, that's not what it is. That said, if someone is kicking your door in, it makes plenty of sense to drop into your combat pose because combat is imminent. If you and your enemy are bantering and both drop into pose that makes sense too. But walking around in a form charm while investigating a tomb doesn't make sense because hopping around on one foot with your arms over your head would make investigation kind of difficult, wouldn't it? ISE is a bit weirder since it has non-combat applications by design. I would say 'if you go directly from performing a feat of strength to JB' then it probably stays on but otherwise should fade because keeping yourself in rippling muscle status doesn't make sense unless you have a reason to continue doing so. e: Honestly, re: ISE, give it some fluff along the lines of 'while using this charm you have difficulty gauging your own strength. You are a bull in a china shop, and will end up accidentally tearing doors off hinges, crushing cups in your mighty grasp, and choke-holding people you try to hug.' At least gives it a narrative downside, a reason NOT to just leave it on all the time even if you can afford it. mistaya fucked around with this message at 20:03 on Oct 17, 2015 |
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Oct 17, 2015 19:52
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What is IAS anyway?
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Oct 17, 2015 20:01
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typo. fixed.
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Oct 17, 2015 20:04
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Technically, it would be Exalted 1E, where the game's meta seemed to revolve around stacking the most defensive scenelongs possible.
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Oct 17, 2015 20:17
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TheLovablePlutonis posted:Ainz-sama casting buffs.mp4 Bless of Magic Caster. e. also pendragon dude
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Oct 17, 2015 20:20
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Bless of the Essence User
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Oct 17, 2015 20:31
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My character will have Drunken Fist style active 24/7 because it's not just a form, it's a way of life.
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Oct 17, 2015 21:19
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I think there is actually more to Drunken Fist style than just being plastered 24/7.
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Oct 17, 2015 21:44
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Schwarzwald posted:I think there is actually more to Drunken Fist style than just being plastered 24/7. slander
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Oct 17, 2015 21:49
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Schwarzwald posted:I think there is actually more to Drunken Fist style than just being plastered 24/7. yeah there's punching people 24/7 too
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Oct 17, 2015 23:48
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I suppose the real question is, does anyone bother to activate Simple charms in a fight? Because that sounds like a good way to get slaughered, buffing up and giving them free time to just wail on you. As a mechanic they're just not very good.
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Oct 18, 2015 00:16
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Thug Lessons posted:Bless of the Essence User TheLovablePlutonis posted:Magic Caster Blessing Prana - Min Essence 3, Occult 5
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Oct 18, 2015 00:27
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Fans posted:I suppose the real question is, does anyone bother to activate Simple charms in a fight? Because that sounds like a good way to get slaughered, buffing up and giving them free time to just wail on you. You often actually have a free turn if you engage from a distance. Also you better loving activate Fivefold Bulwark Stance or Flow Like Blood if you want to live.
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Oct 18, 2015 00:27
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I mean, if your stack of Simple charms is such that you deal 45 dice of decisive damage per action regadless of your initiative total, spending the turn that other people usually make withering attacks in on a personal buff is probably a smart move.
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Oct 18, 2015 00:31
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KittyEmpress posted:When it comes to narrative, you do not need solid rules on 'what is what'. Go with what flows the best to you and what you as a ST feel makes for the best story. It's not that hard! Roleplaying games are at their core writing a cool story. You don't need super solid rules for every edge case, and you certainly don't need them inorder to shut down builds and abuses you can just ask people not to do. Isn't the leaked PDF almost a thousand pages of dense rules, before they managed to stuff another bunch of Have you considered that it might be easier to play almost any other game? Exalted is rules dense even compared to loving D&D.
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Oct 18, 2015 01:26
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RPZip posted:Isn't the leaked PDF almost a thousand pages of dense rules, before they managed to stuff another bunch of Its got a ridiculous bunch of player options, but it's not more rules dense than D&D.
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Oct 18, 2015 01:35
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RPZip posted:Isn't the leaked PDF almost a thousand pages of dense rules, before they managed to stuff another bunch of Honestly, it's not. The leak is more fluff than rules, and if you omit the charms then it's even less dense.
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Oct 18, 2015 01:40
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The rules section is 80 pages of a 900 page PDF, so less than 10% of the leak is rules. Lmao.
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Oct 18, 2015 01:43
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Schwarzwald posted:Honestly, it's not. The leak is more fluff than rules, and if you omit the charms then it's even less dense. Even more space can be saved by erasing every single mortal from the antagonists section, as they are worthless 
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Oct 18, 2015 01:45
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Bedlamdan posted:Its got a ridiculous bunch of player options, but it's not more rules dense than D&D. Schwarzwald posted:Honestly, it's not. The leak is more fluff than rules, and if you omit the charms then it's even less dense. Thug Lessons posted:The rules section is 80 pages of a 900 page PDF, so less than 10% of the leak is rules. Lmao. Since you fuckers made me download this piece of poo poo to check:
I excluded the introduction which is basically the same as every other RPG book. The 4e D&D PHB is 257 pages of player rules (subtracted out the intro and the character sheet in my PDF) and the DMG is 137 pages of rules stuff plus 65 pages of setting stuff (excluding the intro and sheet-based stuff again). Excluding Chapter 8 and the Monster Manual from D&D since they basically serve the same function, you end up with 618 pages of Exalted rules with 108 pages of fluff, and 394 pages of D&D rules with 65 pages of setting fluff. 17% fluff-by-volume versus 16%. It's really not a perfect comparison - the charms in particular will take up less space with proper formatting (although that just means they're going to loving add more, as it turns out) and 4e is usually regarded as the most rules-dense version of D&D by a significant margin but honestly, the leak is vastly more rules than fluff. The rules are more than just descriptions of how initiative works, it's all the powers/charms/feats/gear too - there's a reason people hate trying to build characters in either of these systems since you have to dive through giant lists of options and weigh each one as you go.
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Oct 18, 2015 02:15
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People hate making characters in DnD 4e? It's pretty easy. You pick a class, assign your abilities and then pick about four different powers (And your choices aren't that broad). It's pretty quick all things told.
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Oct 18, 2015 02:21
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I'm kind of dumbfounded by including not only charms but the loving monster manual section as "rules". Like for real dude?
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Oct 18, 2015 02:22
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How are the charms not rules? It's not like you could play the game without them.
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Oct 18, 2015 02:31
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Thug Lessons posted:I'm kind of dumbfounded by including not only charms but the loving monster manual section as "rules". Like for real dude? I didn't include the monster manual from either book in the count, but what the hell do you think they are? They're the equivalent of player option rules like charms/powers/whatever but for the DM instead. Fans posted:How are the charms not rules? It's not like you could play the game without them. This too.
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Oct 18, 2015 02:36
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They are rules but they don't make the game harder to play because you can ignore the vast majority of it.
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Oct 18, 2015 02:37
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Thug Lessons posted:They are rules but they don't make the game harder to play because you can ignore the vast majority of it.
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Oct 18, 2015 02:38
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Chernobyl Peace Prize posted:Before you make the argument that you can ignore most of the charms in a game where they represent a significant amount of the character customization available to you, I'm going to preemptively tell you this is going to be a stupid hill to die on over the next page and a half. If ignoring non-caste/favored is truly a no-go then I'll switch to my backup argument that most of the charm text is fluff. Which is a problem in itself but a different one.
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Oct 18, 2015 02:49
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Charms are absolutely rules. They may be the most important rules.
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Oct 18, 2015 02:56
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Fans posted:People hate making characters in DnD 4e? Missed this the first time, but I was talking about D&D in general. Specifically to 4e, everything you described is a snap and an example of wonderful design; selecting your powers at each level is a lot of fun and allows for good customization within the confines of your class, but not so complicated that it causes much issue or option paralysis. The problem comes when you need to pick from the giant list of non-siloed content like Feats or Magic Items, which loving blows even with the computer helping you. I love 4e but the feat/magic item design (and bloat) is the worst part of the system by a huge margin. Thug Lessons posted:If ignoring non-caste/favored is truly a no-go then I'll switch to my backup argument that most of the charm text is fluff. Which is a problem in itself but a different one. Picked literally the first charm in the PDF. quote:Wise Arrow I've helpfully bolded the fluff/flavor text in this charm. e: vvvvvv good point, fixed. RPZip fucked around with this message at 03:04 on Oct 18, 2015 |
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Oct 18, 2015 02:59
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RPZip posted:I've helpfully bolded the fluff/flavor text in this charm. You missed another sentence, bringing the total to like 10%
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Oct 18, 2015 03:00
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Thug Lessons posted:They are rules but they don't make the game harder to play because you can ignore the vast majority of it. Well, you can ignore a large number of them after you've read them all so you know which ones are relevant to your character, and can base the character you want to make based on the options they give you. So... no, you can't really just "ignore the vast majority of them."
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Oct 18, 2015 04:23
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Supposedly the final has the Charms rearranged so that they're in order by Essence minimum, so it will be a bit easier to ignore the ones you can't take at chargen for 24/25 Abilities.
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Oct 18, 2015 04:28
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Maybe I'm just incredibly hosed up, but I only read the charms and rules again for the abilities I'm taking. So if I'm not playing a Martial Artist, I don't really do much with the MA section. I don't need the strategic warfare system if I'm not gonna be leading troops, I don't need the crafting rules if I'm not playing a crafter, I don't need to go over the Rogue Powers again if I'm playing a Ranger, and I don't need to reference the rituals section again if I haven't taken Ritual Casting. And if I'm the one GMing I just ctrl+F the effect the player is using, and skim it briefly. That goes for both games?  It's partly why I consider the various crazy options a player takes to be distinct from the base rules that are always in play regardless of who plays what. RPZip posted:Since you fuckers made me download this piece of poo poo to check: Please calm down, and do not feel forced to do what you dislike.  Edit: Fans posted:How are the charms not rules? It's not like you could play the game without them. Mortals games
Bedlamdan fucked around with this message at 05:41 on Oct 18, 2015 |
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Oct 18, 2015 05:33
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Bedlamdan posted:Maybe I'm just incredibly hosed up, but I only read the charms and rules again for the abilities I'm taking. So if I'm not playing a Martial Artist, I don't really do much with the MA section. I don't need the strategic warfare system if I'm not gonna be leading troops, I don't need the crafting rules if I'm not playing a crafter, I don't need to go over the Rogue Powers again if I'm playing a Ranger, and I don't need to reference the rituals section again if I haven't taken Ritual Casting. But how can you decide if an MA, or being a crafter, or being a ranger, is something that interests you at all, if you don't know whether the game's charms will actually let you do the stuff you have in mind? At the very least you'd need to skim a good number of the charms to have even the faintest idea what the game lets you do. Bedlamdan posted:And if I'm the one GMing I just ctrl+F the effect the player is using, and skim it briefly. That goes for both games? What if you're GM'ing and need to make NPC opponents or allies? Then suddenly holy poo poo you've got a lot of charms to look through to put together their abilities unless they're all carbon copies of the same combat setup.
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Oct 18, 2015 05:48
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PurpleXVI posted:But how can you decide if an MA, or being a crafter, or being a ranger, is something that interests you at all, if you don't know whether the game's charms will actually let you do the stuff you have in mind? At the very least you'd need to skim a good number of the charms to have even the faintest idea what the game lets you do. Yeah. Fortunately, I only need to read those once, whereas Initiative mechanics are forever. PurpleXVI posted:What if you're GM'ing and need to make NPC opponents or allies? Then suddenly holy poo poo you've got a lot of charms to look through to put together their abilities unless they're all carbon copies of the same combat setup. I pick two or three signature powers and largely leave it at that. For the duration of a single scene? That's all people need. Nobody should ever build NPCs like PCs, in any system!
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Oct 18, 2015 05:52
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Bedlamdan posted:Yeah. Fortunately, I only need to read those once, whereas Initiative mechanics are forever. It doesn't really change anything numbers-wise even if you dump out all the player-option type stuff, like classes, their associated powers, equipment, spells, rituals, charms, whatever. Exalted has 90 pages of system rules (Chapter 5) plus another 54 of associated rules terms (Chapter 4). 4e has 30 (chapter 8 PHB), plus another 42 in the DMG (chapter 3 and 5, skipping 4 since it's basically part of the antagonists/MM section). Even given that the D&D books are quite a bit smaller than the leaked PDF it's not a good ratio.
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Oct 18, 2015 06:09
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