Warhammer 40k: It's the end of the game as we know it (and I feel fine)

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Traditional Games > Warhammer 40k: It's the end of the game as we know it (and I feel fine)

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Thundercloud: Mar 28, 2010; To boldly be eaten where no grot has been eaten before!

Any news on HH plastics?

# ? Oct 17, 2015 18:28

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# ? May 30, 2024 15:52

Genghis Cohen: Jun 29, 2013

Mango Polo posted:

Not by me, but yes!

Have you dreamed of the eldar jetbike statline, but with haywire grenades and the ability for every single one of them to pick any of the Eldar, Dark Eldar and Corsair special weapons? Plus a buncha rules we don't know the effects of, for a base of 20 points and they remain troops?

Oh boy, have I got something to show you!

loving YES! God bless you. I bet those special rules have some sort of leadership risk (LD seems to be split on the statline, 8/5 - perhaps it goes down under certain conditions to represent the corsairs cutting their losses if the battle turns against them?) but presumably a benefit as well. The Craftworld Eldar special rule, Battle Focus, while insanely good, doesn't benefit jetbike units.

Weapons wise, I assume each model having a 'brace of pistols' means an extra CC attack, I can see attack squads of these things with haywire grenades. The other big use would be heavy weapons, as in the eldar codex, but greater variety makes a purely jetbike army more viable.

I would love to field an army composed exclusively of eldar jetbikes, vypers, flyers, and small squads on open transports.

# ? Oct 17, 2015 18:36

Zark the Damned: Mar 9, 2013

Sulecrist posted:

It says "note that." It's plainly, RAW and RAI, a reminder, not an additional penalty. Any other reading necessarily ignores those two words. (For this model, anyway; I don't remember the wording on the Ork ones.)

Sorry, but no. See the line 'Note: for each siege claw replaced, the model loses one attack'. The each is important.

If you replace both siege claws with guns, you'd lose 2 attacks (plus another attack for no longer having 2 CCWS as the 'bonus is included in the profile') and be on 1 attack.

Even if FW are (incorrectly) treating the bonus attack from having 2 CCWs in that, removing the second claw still drops you by another attack (due to the each in the notes, giving you a total of 2 attacks (still wrong, it should be 3 if the 'lose an attack' is a reference to 'no longer having a second CCW).

If FW meant you lose the bonus attack by swapping out one claw, it would be worded something like 'reduce attacks by one if a single claw is exchanged'. But they don't say this.

FW are deliberately adding un-needed caveats to a simple system they don't understand. All they needed to do was give it 3 attacks base, it would get the 4th from having 2 CCWs (which already puts it below the default 4 attacks for regular dreadnoughts as per the latest SM dex). There are plenty of units in the game which have multiple CCWs and don't include the bonus in the stats, it's only FW that do this.

The wording for Mega/Meka Dredds is pretty much the same, they start with 2 CCWs and FW states that the bonus attack is included in the profile (meaning they have fewer attacks than regular Deff Dreads), if you replace a CCW with a gun you lose an attack (plus an extra attack for no longer having multiple CCWs).

I would also note that FW also don't know how pinning works (see the experimental rules for the Navigator) and keep using different rules for KFFs wherever they appear, different stats for the same guns in different books, etc.

# ? Oct 17, 2015 18:39

GreenMarine: Apr 25, 2009; Switchblade Switcharoo

LordAba posted:

I love that the default country on their site seems to be Australia. I love that they can't sync all the new stuff across countries so to see the new items right now you need to be on Australia (instead of the US, at least). I love the 100 dollar box of troops.

EDIT: Err... now it's 85? Weird. The intern must have messed up.

Mine is set to US and that little Raven Guard bundle is $140!

# ? Oct 17, 2015 18:40

krushgroove: Oct 23, 2007; Disapproving look

Thundercloud posted:

Any news on HH plastics?

Before even taking questions, the rules are laid out:

1. No asking about future plans or products
2. No asking about other company's products

So no, no news.

e: unless the legions or characters in this teaser mean anything to anyone...

krushgroove fucked around with this message at 18:45 on Oct 17, 2015

# ? Oct 17, 2015 18:42

SRM: Jul 10, 2009; ~*FeElIn' AweS0mE*~

akkristor posted:

Tidewall Rampart, the new Tau Terrain, sold out in less than 10 minutes on the GW store.

I think they severely underestimated how much people want non-Imperial terrain.

# ? Oct 17, 2015 18:50

OhDearGodNo: Jan 3, 2014

So book 6 will not have 1ksons/puppies after all?

:smith:

# ? Oct 17, 2015 19:01

Mango Polo: Aug 4, 2007

SRM posted:

I think they severely underestimated how much people want non-Imperial terrain.

Wonder if I can scalp the one I managed to preorder for 200% mark-up.

# ? Oct 17, 2015 19:03

BULBASAUR: Apr 6, 2009; Soiled Meat

Thanks for posting all that stuff, dude. Hell yes.

That seige dreadnought. Hot drat those rules. I'm not sure it was wise to give it a 4++ jesus tits people

# ? Oct 17, 2015 19:04

Hencoe: Sep 4, 2012; MY LIFE GOAL IS TO STICK A FLESHLIGHT INTO THE END OF A HOWITZER AND FUCK THE SHIT OUT OF IT

E: Im just going to be salty about a continuing lack of iron warrior anything.

Hencoe fucked around with this message at 19:23 on Oct 17, 2015

# ? Oct 17, 2015 19:19

akkristor: Feb 24, 2014

Mango Polo posted:

Wonder if I can scalp the one I managed to preorder for 200% mark-up.

Yeah, i'm kinda considering that myself. I've been playing more Warmachine than Warhammer, but I still want to play with my Tau.

I guess it will depend on when the rules hit, but i've been wanting a Tau-themed Aegis Defense Line for a while.

# ? Oct 17, 2015 19:38

Sulecrist: Apr 5, 2007; Better tear off this bar association logo.

Zark the Damned posted:

Sorry, but no. See the line 'Note: for each siege claw replaced, the model loses one attack'. The each is important.

If you replace both siege claws with guns, you'd lose 2 attacks (plus another attack for no longer having 2 CCWS as the 'bonus is included in the profile') and be on 1 attack.

Even if FW are (incorrectly) treating the bonus attack from having 2 CCWs in that, removing the second claw still drops you by another attack (due to the each in the notes, giving you a total of 2 attacks (still wrong, it should be 3 if the 'lose an attack' is a reference to 'no longer having a second CCW).

If FW meant you lose the bonus attack by swapping out one claw, it would be worded something like 'reduce attacks by one if a single claw is exchanged'. But they don't say this.

FW are deliberately adding un-needed caveats to a simple system they don't understand. All they needed to do was give it 3 attacks base, it would get the 4th from having 2 CCWs (which already puts it below the default 4 attacks for regular dreadnoughts as per the latest SM dex). There are plenty of units in the game which have multiple CCWs and don't include the bonus in the stats, it's only FW that do this.

The wording for Mega/Meka Dredds is pretty much the same, they start with 2 CCWs and FW states that the bonus attack is included in the profile (meaning they have fewer attacks than regular Deff Dreads), if you replace a CCW with a gun you lose an attack (plus an extra attack for no longer having multiple CCWs).

I would also note that FW also don't know how pinning works (see the experimental rules for the Navigator) and keep using different rules for KFFs wherever they appear, different stats for the same guns in different books, etc.

Re: "each"-- You're right! I missed that. I still think that RAW, dropping the first arm only drops a total of one attack. I think the phrase "note that" implies a reminder where "note:" would be more appropriately read to mean a new rule. Either way, they're plainly, RAW, adding a penalty to dropping the second weapon that I had missed before.

Certainly, FW is bad about articulating clear rules. Although that looks like a picture of a print-out--maybe they can tweak the wording before it gets printed.

Sulecrist fucked around with this message at 20:52 on Oct 17, 2015

# ? Oct 17, 2015 20:49

raverrn: Apr 5, 2005; Unidentified spacecraft inbound from delta line.

All Silpheed squadrons scramble now!

Interestingly enough, you only lose the attack for replacing the claw. If it's hit by a weapon destroyed it stays. (though you still lose the 2CCW attack.)

# ? Oct 17, 2015 21:06

thespaceinvader: Mar 30, 2011; The slightest touch from a Gol-Shogeg will result in Instant Death!

On a different note, is just just me or does the SHADOW FORCE SOLAQ Captain have the most AWESOME handlebar moustache?

Putting a pair of wings on a helmet so they meet where the nose would be looks dumb as gently caress.

# ? Oct 17, 2015 22:02

serious gaylord: Sep 16, 2007; what.

krushgroove posted:

Before even taking questions, the rules are laid out:

1. No asking about future plans or products
2. No asking about other company's products

So no, no news.

e: unless the legions or characters in this teaser mean anything to anyone...

That would make great box art. Just saying

# ? Oct 17, 2015 22:03

LordAba: Oct 22, 2012; by FactsAreUseless

Mango Polo posted:

Wonder if I can scalp the one I managed to preorder for 200% mark-up.

Do it soon, because I'm sure they will sell the individual pieces of it for essentially the same price (see the Sigmar Khorne fort).

# ? Oct 17, 2015 22:04

krushgroove: Oct 23, 2007; Disapproving look

serious gaylord posted:

That would make great box art. Just saying

If you listen to the first MP3 link I posted, at 56:30 that is when they reveal the artwork for the first time. They make a big deal about saying it's various authors and that the picture and title is ALL they can say:

"Can't really talk about what format these products are, but you might be able to tell from the way the artwork is laid out. This is War Without End, by Various Authors. There's some cool characters there, anybody recognize any of those characters?" I make a joke, then "...some familiar, maybe some that aren't. Very interesting, everybody got that?"

:tinfoil:

So read into that what you will. But yeah, looks like it could definitely be box art.

# ? Oct 17, 2015 22:15

NTRabbit: Aug 15, 2012; i wear this armour to protect myself from the histrionics of hysterical women

bitches

krushgroove posted:

First seminar, with rules writer James Stewart on left and (forgot his name) HH specialist on the right

James Hewitt, not Stewart :v:

He was the CM at Mantic before getting a gig as a writer at GW

# ? Oct 17, 2015 22:32

serious gaylord: Sep 16, 2007; what.

krushgroove posted:

If you listen to the first MP3 link I posted, at 56:30 that is when they reveal the artwork for the first time. They make a big deal about saying it's various authors and that the picture and title is ALL they can say:

"Can't really talk about what format these products are, but you might be able to tell from the way the artwork is laid out. This is War Without End, by Various Authors. There's some cool characters there, anybody recognize any of those characters?" I make a joke, then "...some familiar, maybe some that aren't. Very interesting, everybody got that?"

So read into that what you will. But yeah, looks like it could definitely be box art.

Theres horus heresy shelf strips that have been photographed. Guess we'll see next month.

# ? Oct 17, 2015 23:31

A 50S RAYGUN: Aug 22, 2011

so wait i'm sorry i have a lot of trouble believing models drive rules design. i have rules for tyrant's siege from a book printed literally years ago, and i haven't seen hide nor hair of a model, when i've seen practically completed models for weird tanks and poo poo that don't even have names i know.

on the other hand yes i want those loving power axe veletaris. guess my other poo poo will be waiting

# ? Oct 17, 2015 23:49

Zark the Damned: Mar 9, 2013

A 50S RAYGUN posted:

so wait i'm sorry i have a lot of trouble believing models drive rules design. i have rules for tyrant's siege from a book printed literally years ago, and i haven't seen hide nor hair of a model, when i've seen practically completed models for weird tanks and poo poo that don't even have names i know.

on the other hand yes i want those loving power axe veletaris. guess my other poo poo will be waiting

It's true of modern GW, though not necessarily Forgeworld.

I get the impression GW's process is like:

Executive: I have this idea for a model that's cool and will sell loads!
Sculptor: How's this look?
Executive: Awesome, let's get it produced. I guess we'd better come up with some rules for it too.
Rules Team: We've come up with these rules, but haven't had time to balance them properly yet.
Executive: Who cares? Print them anyway.
(Alt Executive: Did you make sure they're overpowered so we can shift more units?)

Whereas Forgeworld is more like:

Sculptor: I have this idea for a cool mini, it'll look ace.
Rules Guy: That sounds neat, I'll put together some rules.
Executive: We need to fill more pages in this book, these rules will do.
Rules Guy: But I haven't finished testing them or making sure they work with the current edition.
Executive: Who cares? Print them anyway.
Sculptor: So if these rules are getting printed do I get to sculpt the models yet?
Executive: No way, make more 30k stuff. We'll stick your concept art in the book instead.

# ? Oct 18, 2015 03:12

Ugly John: Jul 18, 2009; [img]https://forums.somethingawful.com/attachment.php?postid=514899866[/img]

If only there were some sort of document they could put out answering these sort of questions, especially those that frequently get asked.

I know, pipe dream.

# ? Oct 18, 2015 06:00

BULBASAUR: Apr 6, 2009; Soiled Meat

Hencoe posted:

E: Im just going to be salty about a continuing lack of iron warrior anything.

Naw dawg, I feel you.

Just wait until next week, I'm sure Blood Angels will get some sweet models or something

# ? Oct 18, 2015 07:17

NTRabbit: Aug 15, 2012; i wear this armour to protect myself from the histrionics of hysterical women

bitches

Dreamforge has a 40-50% off sale for the rest of the month, stock on hand only

# ? Oct 18, 2015 07:46

Mango Polo: Aug 4, 2007

The Tau, having grown jealous of the Eldar's ridiculous jetbikes, have come up with their own.

# ? Oct 18, 2015 10:11

A 50S RAYGUN: Aug 22, 2011

what's that on the right?

# ? Oct 18, 2015 10:28

Mango Polo: Aug 4, 2007

A 50S RAYGUN posted:

what's that on the right?

A ghostkeel with some new upgrades (drone on top of backpack, new arm on the ground).

# ? Oct 18, 2015 10:32

NovaLion: Jun 2, 2013; REMEMBER

Tau bikes? Color me excited.

# ? Oct 18, 2015 10:37

ijyt: Apr 10, 2012

Mango Polo posted:

The Tau, having grown jealous of the Eldar's ridiculous jetbikes, have come up with their own.

I'm so loving happy.

Also Ion Cannon equipped Ghostkeel loving yes please.

E: Holy poo poo the little Tau pit crew checking the legs and sitting on the missile pod. :derp:

# ? Oct 18, 2015 10:57

Germ: May 7, 2013

Genghis Cohen posted:

loving YES! God bless you. I bet those special rules have some sort of leadership risk (LD seems to be split on the statline, 8/5 - perhaps it goes down under certain conditions to represent the corsairs cutting their losses if the battle turns against them?) but presumably a benefit as well. The Craftworld Eldar special rule, Battle Focus, while insanely good, doesn't benefit jetbike units.

Wild guess here, but I'm guessing the first big number is what they use until they break, and then they rally on the second number. Once they run, they keep running. I'm really stoked to see IA11 getting a redo!

# ? Oct 18, 2015 16:31

Monoliths: Jul 7, 2009

Speaking of IA redos, I may be completely insane but I've kinda started making a homebrew update to the Dreadmob army list found in IA8. There's so much cool stuff in there, and there has since been a PDF update which is okay but is also showing age. Who knows if it'll ever see a game, but it's pretty fun tweaking such a characterful list in hopes of bringing it into 7E and consolidating some of the stuff scattered across various publications.

I started off just trying to port the units directly into the 7E style, but quickly started getting way more editorial. Adding relics, warlord traits, tweaking costs, expanding weapon options, and the like. Here are some examples of changes I've made:

- Added relics, warlord traits, some fluffy formations.
- Buzzgob's warlord trait allows dreads and kans within 12" to ignore shaken and stunned.
- Kustom Meka Dread gets some of the new gun options like the smasha gun and tellyport blasta.
- Big meks can take deffguns because why not?
- Cybork slashas may choose their upgrade for a cost instead of rolling for it.
- A few FOC changes, such as lootas and mega-dreads as elites and killa kans as troops.
- Spanna boyz may take 2 special weapons per 10 boyz, including burnas and kombis, and are no longer mandatory.
- Ardboyz are a new troop option.
- Scrap trukks and gun trukks may be taken in squadrons of 1-3.
- Looted wagons can be taken as dedicated transports for a few units.
- Battlewagon variants (like the lifta-droppa) all rolled into 1 entry with expanded options.
- LoW options include the stompa, mek stompa, kustom battle fortress, and the 3 killtank variants.

Lots of little changes along the way, still very much a work in progress.

My question to you all is: what would you like to see in such a revision? What does the dreadmob list need in order to stand half a chance against eldar, tau, etc? In a fairly non-competitive sense, of course, I am completely unconcerned with tournaments and such.

# ? Oct 18, 2015 19:22

Mango Polo: Aug 4, 2007

Genghis Cohen posted:

Weapons wise, I assume each model having a 'brace of pistols' means an extra CC attack, I can see attack squads of these things with haywire grenades.

An extra attack? More than that it now seems.

quote:

Corsairs have their own unique Perils of the Warp chart. In addition to the Void Dreamer, Barons and Princes can be Psykers.

1- Devoured. No Ld check. The Psyker is claimed by She Who Thirsts. Gains Demon, Hatred (Khorne), Rending, and may run +3 inches. Control switches to your opponent. If the psyker is part of a unit they're locked in combat.

2-3 Soul-Wracked. Slaanesh gives them a back massage is basically what the fluff says. The unit (not just the model) are pinned and your opponent gets to change the target of the psychic power being cast.

4-5 Warp Terrors. Demons swirl about the veil. Unit and all Corsair units within 6" must make a morale check on 3D6 take the two highest or fall back.

6 The Eye of She Who Thirsts. The Psyker gets the attention of Slaanesh. For the rest of the game perils happen for the psyker on any doubles.

Dancing on the Blade's Edge: Corsairs are piratey and stuff and not the most disciplined. They come with two Ld Values, ie 8/5. You use the lower value when trying to regroup.

Reckless Abandon: If within 12" of an enemy, the unit can "battle focus" only after shooting. But don't roll D6, it's a flat 6". Jetpack units get 6+D6".

Princes can take relics from either book as well as the Harlequin book.

Dissonance cannon: 24" S5, AP4, Heavy 1, pinning. For each additional model in the unit that hits, add +1S and -1AP.

Tanglefield grenades: S2, AP-, blast. Any unit hit by it takes a strength test, if failed reduce initiative and WS in half until next turn.

Regular troop Corsairs (now called Reaver Bands) got defensive grenades.

Lynx Pulsar (new gun):
Saturation: 48" Str D, AP2, Ordinance 1, Large Blast
Salvo: 48" Str D, AP2, Ordinance 3, Twin-Linked

Firestorm's gun got rending and ignores cover vs skimmers and flyers.

Brace of Pistols is wargear that effectively gives access to 2 shuriken pistols and 2 splinter pistols.

quote:

Corsair Prince and Baron can both take a Cloud Runner jetbike.

Baron is a 30 point HQ base. Not an IC, 15 pts to become a lv1 psyker.

The Prince dropped 25 pts. Anything with 12" uses his Ld.

They have access to 4 pistols but can only fire 2. Means that they all have 2 CCW.

There are scout Corsairs called Ghostwalkers. They get stealth, scout, infiltrate, plasma and defensive grenades, and a lasblaster. For one point per model they can get longrifles. They can also get flamers, fusion guns, shredders, and blasters (1 per 5). And they can get haywire grenades.

Corsair jetpacks grant 4+ armor

Elite Slot: Malevolent Band. These corsairs are half-insane because of Slaanesh gnawing at their souls and therefore charge into battle with berzerker-like rage.

Corsairs within 6" of them get -1Ld

2W models with FnP, fear, fearless, fleet, furious charge, rage

5 points gets the whole unit Jetpacks or Heavy mesh (4+ armor).

Can get melta bombs, venom blades, power swords (1 per 5)

Comes with brace of pistols and a CCW

The Phoenix Bomber looks unchanged other than dropping 20 points.

Kinetic Fields grants a 5++ save to vehicles, increasing to 4++ re-rollable if the vehicle deep strikes or moves flat out. Wasps get it when jumping.

Warp Hunter, 185 points, can be squandroned. 36" Str: D minus 1 AP2 with small blast barrage D3+1 shots. Also has a template firing mode.

Lynx is 60 pts cheaper and got +1 armor f/s

Lynxes got cheaper, improved armor and more D. Warp Hunters also have the D. What are you doing FW, stahp.

Mango Polo fucked around with this message at 20:01 on Oct 18, 2015

# ? Oct 18, 2015 19:57

Mango Polo: Aug 4, 2007

Double posting for tidewall rules goodness.

The Tau cribbed the Necron's reflection trick and amped it up.

Mango Polo fucked around with this message at 20:09 on Oct 18, 2015

# ? Oct 18, 2015 20:07

DJ Dizzy: Feb 11, 2009; Real men don't use bolters.

Please let broadside railguns revert to S10.

# ? Oct 18, 2015 20:29

Hencoe: Sep 4, 2012; MY LIFE GOAL IS TO STICK A FLESHLIGHT INTO THE END OF A HOWITZER AND FUCK THE SHIT OUT OF IT

Mango Polo posted:

An extra attack? More than that it now seems.

Lynxes got cheaper, improved armor and more D. Warp Hunters also have the D. What are you doing FW, stahp.

I've heard the Titan holofields are gone now, which would make sense giving the Lynx more armor because av11 ain't poo poo, and two large blasts to one, or 3 solid shots seems like a lateral move rather than a buff or nerf.

Alternately the gigantic boner for eldar doesnt stop at GW prime

Hencoe fucked around with this message at 21:18 on Oct 18, 2015

# ? Oct 18, 2015 21:13

Boon: Jun 21, 2005; by R. Guyovich

Someone needs to counter the Imperial boner. Might as well be the most effeminate army in the game.

# ? Oct 18, 2015 21:45

PantsOptional: Dec 27, 2012; All I wanna do is make you bounce

Today the son asked me to teach him how to play, because he sees these figures all the time and is very curious about them. Given that it was snowing outside this seemed like an okay way to spend a lazy Sunday afternoon.

I put together a pretty sensible setup for a kid to play, starting with basic turn sequence and statistics in one match, then moving up to squads and special weapons, and finally a longish match involving multiple squads, transports, and objectives. I taught him (or tried to teach him) about strategy, priorities, acceptable losses, and sportsmanship. I did not teach him about slamming down cold ones. He'll learn that in his own due time.

We started maybe around 1:30 and he was engaged fully the three hours or so we spent (including lunch break). At 4:30 the wife inquired why, of all things, we were blasting Space Jam.

# ? Oct 18, 2015 21:53