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Neddy Seagoon posted:Except that it's the TARDIS. The whole premise of the set is "bigger on the inside", and going for something that feels cramped doesn't gel well with that. (Yes I know; it's inside a phonebox to start with, but relatively speaking). Plus at the end of the day, it's still a centerpiece TV set that doesn't give the actors proper room to move around in. Saying "it has 4 levels" doesn't work at all either, because at best you're only ever going to see two at once, and the others will never be in the same shot. They can't even manage a decent wide shot of both the central console and the gantry either, because except for very specific angles the Console itself gets in the way. Yeah, but it's also not designed with nerdchecking facts in mind - I'm sure according to DW cannon it could be the size of a football pitch but it's designed to have an intimate, tight core where the action/problemsolving/drama takes place. The whole set has massive steel beams that lead down into that central core deliberately to hem things in. Whenever there's a scene happening at the console it's usually chaotic and urgent - moving around those unergonmic panels, lots of light and movement in the foreground from the blocking elements - all of this is deliberate. Also, the set is bloody massive - if you think people don't have the room to move around in then that's more a consequence of TV directing where there isn't loads of time to set up a shot. I've also seen shots where they make full use of the vertical hight, so saying it has levels works for me. Not to make a pun, but that set can be as big or small as you want it to be. You might feel that this actually does the opposite - but I think this scene makes great use of the geography of the set. It can feel big when you want it to - there's panning and tracking shots, and then you're right in there for chaotic action. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4F84WapAH7M Not all of our sets are great, but the current TARDIS is pretty much the perfect sci-fi action set. echoplex fucked around with this message at 15:34 on Oct 19, 2015 |
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Oct 19, 2015 15:30
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echoplex posted:Yeah, but it's also not designed with nerdchecking facts in mind - I'm sure according to DW cannon it could be the size of a football pitch but it's designed to have an intimate, tight core where the action/problemsolving/drama takes place. The whole set has massive steel beams that lead down into that central core deliberately to hem things in. Whenever there's a scene happening at the console it's usually chaotic and urgent - moving around those unergonmic panels, lots of light and movement in the foreground from the blocking elements - all of this is deliberate. Also, the set is bloody massive - if you think people don't have the room to move around in then that's more a consequence of TV directing where there isn't loads of time to set up a shot. I've also seen shots where they make full use of the vertical hight, so saying it has levels works for me. Not to make a pun, but that set can be as big or small as you want it to be. I meant more that the other NuWho control rooms tended to use their architecture to try and appear large and expansive, rather than the current one's more confined design (Also, holy poo poo forgot there was someone in the thread that actually worked on the current series  ). Those are all fair remarks, but the problem with the set is it doesn't really lend itself to being filmed inside. There's no mid-ground for the camera, it looks like their only options are stuck in a too-far-back shot from the upper deck/console deck for the opposite area, or right up in the actor's faces and stuck trying to film around the Console itself without getting the central column in the side of the shot. Granted, you got similar around-the-console shots in the other Control Rooms, but they at least had room to pan back properly for more wider shots when necessary.
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Oct 19, 2015 16:04
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Well the argument there is that that's what cranes/platforms/floaters/rigs etc are for which is how I assume they shot similar spaced sets like DS9's Ops or CIC in BSG, but we don't seem to use them all that much, presumably because of time. I think the space is fine - and it's in line with the more film-size direction the sets have taken over this/recent years, but it just sometimes isn't shot in the best way (this sounds like a weak defence, but it makes sense from here). I think if you took that set as it was and dropped it into a feature film then you'd get a lot more out of it, but that's the nature of telly etc etc etc.
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Oct 19, 2015 16:22
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The nature of telly: shrugging your shoulders and going "oh well"
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Oct 19, 2015 16:25
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echoplex posted:Well the argument there is that that's what cranes/platforms/floaters/rigs etc are for which is how I assume they shot similar spaced sets like DS9's Ops or CIC in BSG, but we don't seem to use them all that much, presumably because of time. I think the space is fine - and it's in line with the more film-size direction the sets have taken over this/recent years, but it just sometimes isn't shot in the best way (this sounds like a weak defence, but it makes sense from here). I think most of the set's problems could really be fixed on the cheap by just covering over the open gap between the upper level and the console one, just to give more footspace for everything in general. Just from a viewer's perspective, the Console itself is the real bane of the set because everything has to get shot at an angle around it without it filling the side of the screen. BSG's CIC is a good example of a similar confined set done well, because that has space to film around and over the central table without the overhead DRADIS console getting in the way. There's also enough room at certain angles to take a few steps back for wide shots or keep people moving in the background without interfering with what's going on around the table. echoplex posted:The nature of telly: shrugging your shoulders and going "oh well" Yeah, all I'm doing is pissing in the cheap seats. At the end of the day it's always going to be about time, budget and all that jazz.
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Oct 19, 2015 16:33
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CobiWann posted:Sorry, I get the movies confused. You see, Kevin Conroy is my Batman. This is a very right opinion, so all is forgiven. One thing I'm looking forward to in the next episode is finding out who Ash gives the second magic immortality box to. Even better if she still hasn't given it to anyone at the start of the next episode, and we see her journey towards deciding who gets it, or whether to give it to anyone at all. Bonus points if Clara dies/appears dead and the Doctor really gets his world rocked on whether to make her functionally immortal.
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Oct 19, 2015 17:37
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I can imagine she's given it to her dad. Comedy option - the first boy she fell for, and he turned out to be a complete dickhead, so he's just roaming the Earth too.
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Oct 19, 2015 18:00
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The_Doctor posted:Comedy option - the first boy she fell for, and he turned out to be a complete dickhead, so he's just roaming the Earth too. Maybe she used it on a mysterious fossilised corpse with a strange star-shaped badge she found in an ancient crater.
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Oct 19, 2015 18:20
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Forktoss posted:Maybe she used it on a mysterious fossilised corpse with a strange star-shaped badge she found in an ancient crater. If you aren't talking about Sarah Jane Smith cosplaying as a math whiz I don't want to hear about it.
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Oct 19, 2015 19:28
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Cleretic posted:And those decorations are not only causing the space issues, they're bringing focus to it. Eleven's version of it felt more spacious not just because there was less in it, but because there was less to do in it; our attention wasn't called to the size of the overall room because everyone was always in the center. Now, though, we've got the Doctor explaining things on chalkboards, taking out and reading books, fooling around with a guitar amp. The edges of the TARDIS set aren't dressing anymore, they're part of the actual stage, but they weren't really designed to be. Personally, I love the way the entirety of the console room is being used. Just look at the intro to Listen: Capaldi is able to walk around the room as the camera stalks him from the periphery. When he finally ends up on the upper level, the camera can still move around him. In Dark Water, Clara is actually moving around below and then above the main console area. It just makes for way more dynamic scenes. Matt Smith's first console room was similar in that it allowed people to move below the console like in The Doctor's Wife. It's definitely far better than Tennant's console room that basically forced everyone to stay in the middle at all times because there was nowhere else to go. There's only so many ways you can shoot a room that's just kind of flat and empty. edit: Also, has any other Doctor ever sat on top of the Tardis? That's got to be one of the best shots of all of Doctor Who right there. And More fucked around with this message at 20:03 on Oct 19, 2015 |
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Oct 19, 2015 19:55
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And More posted:
One of the Eternals did in Enlightenment. Well, not sat exactly, and ended up fallng arse over teakettle.
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Oct 19, 2015 19:58
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Ratings news continues unabated. AI for The Girl Who Died is 82, a couple of points lower than normal but comfortably over the 80 "excellent" bar for a drama. Before the Flood's final consolidated number is 6.05 million, which should see it about 20th for the week. Mildly interesting that timeshifting only added 1.6 million rather than the more consistent 2 million it has been doing recently. In more interesting news, here's Maisie Williams with a camera on location, watching Peter Capaldi demonstrate his yo-yo skills: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OWpwNi7cleY
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Oct 19, 2015 21:04
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Count me in as one of the people who likes the way they've incorporated more elements into the TARDIS, the bookshelves and ramps etc. While the 4th wall breaking at the start of the last episode was a little too much for me, I loved the way they shot it and how Capaldi was able to move around inside it as he talked.Trin Tragula posted:In more interesting news, here's Maisie Williams with a camera on location, watching Peter Capaldi demonstrate his yo-yo skills: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OWpwNi7cleY It's like a Granddaughter filming her Granddad as he shows off a trick for her 
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Oct 19, 2015 21:44
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qntm posted:This was a classic case of a thing where if there is some narrative mileage in the explanation then it's worth going back to, but if there isn't then it's worth ignoring forever. I figure Moffat looked at the coincidence and decided there was something there that was worth exploring, and I agree with him that it was. It was a good moment. As an example of the latter, consider the consequences of now dredging up and explaining that one Torchwood character who was ALSO played by Capaldi. I believe it was actually (at least partially) RTD's idea. I think Moffat said that RTD told him he had an explanation for why there was a guy who looked like Peter Capaldi in ancient Pompeii and another guy who looked like Peter Capaldi working as a civil servant in 21st century Britain, and when Capaldi was cast as the Doctor, he rang RTD up and asked if the explanation would still work, and RTD said it would and set it out for him. Could well be blowing smoke, though.
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Oct 19, 2015 22:23
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Trin Tragula posted:In more interesting news, here's Maisie Williams with a camera on location, watching Peter Capaldi demonstrate his yo-yo skills: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OWpwNi7cleY I liked Capaldi's Tom Baker voice.
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Oct 19, 2015 22:50
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echoplex posted:The nature of telly: shrugging your shoulders and going "oh well" Arguing about Doctor Who with someone who works on the show... we are living in storied times. 
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Oct 19, 2015 22:55
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After The War posted:Arguing about Doctor Who with someone who works on the show... we are living in storied times. You'd have gone nuts as a B5 fan in the nineties, JMS posted on rec.arts.sf.tv.babylon5.moderated all the time
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Oct 19, 2015 22:58
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Gordon Shumway posted:I liked Capaldi's Tom Baker voice. Does he do 9's "fantastic" there at the end?
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Oct 19, 2015 23:06
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Jerusalem posted:Well when he pulled the Time Lord Victorious stuff, it came back to bite him on the rear end pretty spectacularly. Happily things went much better in Day of the Doctor, though they were far more careful about maintaining the illusion that everything happened the way everybody always thought it did, whereas in Waters of Mars he was thumbing his nose in the web of time/the universe's face and saying,"I SET THE RULES NOW!" I thought he was extremely close to going all Time Lord Victorious there, and one could argue depending on how much making this woman immortal bites him in the rear end he may have again. He was once again saying "I can do whatever I want, who can stop me?!" As far as the Caecilius explanation goes, I have a question about that. If he chose that face to remind him of how he can always save one person, even if he can't save a city, why then of all times? Remember 11 had just spent 800 years selflessly sacrificing what he thought was the end of his final life hanging around Christmas Town protecting one planet, maybe even just one village against the entire universe. Why of all times did he feel he needed reminding of that lesson? He'd embodied it for centuries. After The War posted:Arguing about Doctor Who with someone who works on the show... we are living in storied times. echoplex, let me take this opportunity as a 30 year fan who has the opportunity to weigh in to someone who works on the show to say I for one love the current console room.  I really liked 11's first one, but I get why they had to ditch it. I wasn't happy at first but the new one has grown on me and it's probably my favorite of the revival.
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Oct 19, 2015 23:39
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The current console room is the best of the revival series. When they debuted it I felt like an old friend had come home after a long time away.
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Oct 19, 2015 23:43
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My favorite console room of the revival is still 11's first, but I'm okay with the current one.
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Oct 19, 2015 23:44
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Jerusalem posted:^^^ Haha, I came so close to making an Adric joke Adric is what I was thinking. She seems like the kind of person who would sacrifice themselves for the greater good without hesitation. I mean, she basically did that with 11. Thing is, the new series has made it clear the Companions come along because they want to have more in their lives, see the wonders of the universe. Clara did have that, but then met Danny and was hesitant to go back, but had to because she could not miss out on it. Now with Danny's death, she's become like 9 running away from the death of someone she cares about.
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Oct 20, 2015 00:53
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Gordon Shumway posted:I liked Capaldi's Tom Baker voice. I'd swear he actually used it in the episode too. Just a line or two I looked up when I was viewing it and went, "that sounds a lot like Baker."
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Oct 20, 2015 01:31
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Cliff Racer posted:I'd swear he actually used it in the episode too. Just a line or two I looked up when I was viewing it and went, "that sounds a lot like Baker." It was in Mummy on the Orient Express during the scene where he's chatting to himself in the cabin and suddenly Tom Baker's voice comes spilling out of his mouth. It was amazing. Edit: Oops, I see you were talking about this latest episode, my bad.
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Oct 20, 2015 01:45
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Jerusalem posted:It was in Mummy on the Orient Express during the scene where he's chatting to himself in the cabin and suddenly Tom Baker's voice comes spilling out of his mouth. It was amazing. If the Doctor slipping into impressions of older Doctors is a Mathieson thing specifically, then he's even better than we thought because it's awesome.
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Oct 20, 2015 02:15
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The idea that, when the Doctor talks to himself, he's talking to himself is so great, but until Mummy only really bad fanwanky 90s tie-in novels ever really went into it. When you get to just imply it, on screen with actors and charm and a deft touch, it's so so so gooood. and Capaldi's Tomvoice is majestic on top of that.
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Oct 20, 2015 02:47
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echoplex posted:You're looking at it. It's the added roundels which were there from the start of the series. I think this set is great, I'm glad it is staying around for a little while.
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Oct 20, 2015 04:09
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MrL_JaKiri posted:You'd have gone nuts as a B5 fan in the nineties, JMS posted on rec.arts.sf.tv.babylon5.moderated all the time So Maera Sior tells me! I mostly meant it as a wilderness years fan, though, in how far we've gone since then. Also that we have the best Doctor Who discussion group on the internet!
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Oct 20, 2015 04:41
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I liked the ideas in the episode, but I didn't like that there were so many magic wand solutions to everything. And then the one time there should've been another one- shocking the girl back to life- they instead went for a magic wand immortality chip, which made it really plain that the entire story was just filler to get to the immortality decision. I actually hope they do revisit the Time Lord Victorious stuff since it's a great idea to be tapped. 12 is the perfect one to do it with since he's constantly questioning himself. Hopefully he "breaks the rules" a few times and catastrophe happens (which may have happened already, guess the next episode we'll see). I like the "Clara's already dead" theory but I don't see it happening. With a show about time travel however, they really need to delve into the whole butterfly-effect thing a bit more often. They've hinted at it, but frequently don't follow through.
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Oct 20, 2015 09:20
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Supposition: Ashildr is a Clara splinter who stopped aging because of the immortality chip.
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Oct 20, 2015 09:22
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NarkyBark posted:I like the "Clara's already dead" theory but I don't see it happening. can someone give me a breakdown of where this theory comes from? All i've read into this season just points to the doctor being worried that clara is running from her life and her loss of danny.
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Oct 20, 2015 09:37
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Attitude Indicator posted:can someone give me a breakdown of where this theory comes from? All i've read into this season just points to the doctor being worried that clara is running from her life and her loss of danny. Unless I've missed something, it was just this post: Sentinel Red posted:Clara's totes already dead and both the Doctor and the TARDIS know it, hence his preoccupation with the subject and it ringing the bell every 5 minutes because he's loving everything up trying to save her from something that did already, and has to, happen. It's probably not true, and they just like ringing the cloister bell. Then again, I could absolutely see Moffat coming up with a plot twist like that. Doctor Who is kind of a hosed up family show.
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Oct 20, 2015 10:05
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Even with that evidence, I wouldn't interpret it as "Clara is dead already" so much as "the Doctor created a giant fuckoff time paradox one time he saved her and he's running away from it". Which I guess is the same thing in a sense, but the "Clara is dead" way projects a different mental image. I suppose it could be cool if he finds Gallifrey in the finale and the first thing they say to him is basically "you done hosed up time, fix it or you're not coming home." (Or arrest Clara and put her in the Paradox Quarantine Chamber or whatever other similar plot) Linear Zoetrope fucked around with this message at 10:36 on Oct 20, 2015 |
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Oct 20, 2015 10:31
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DoctorWhat posted:The idea that, when the Doctor talks to himself, he's talking to himself is so great, but until Mummy only really bad fanwanky 90s tie-in novels ever really went into it. When you get to just imply it, on screen with actors and charm and a deft touch, it's so so so gooood. I quite liked it in that New Adventures novel when Seven really needed Three's thoughts on something and basically allowed himself to be possessed by Three for a few minutes to get the info, but I agree it was fanwank.
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Oct 20, 2015 11:08
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Jsor posted:Even with that evidence, I wouldn't interpret it as "Clara is dead already" so much as "the Doctor created a giant fuckoff time paradox one time he saved her and he's running away from it". Which I guess is the same thing in a sense, but the "Clara is dead" way projects a different mental image. Nah, their answer to a paradox is "okay, go tell one of the engineering teams they've got work to do  ".
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Oct 20, 2015 11:17
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In the promotional stuff before the start of the season didn't they make a big deal about the Doctor making a huge mistake in the first two-parter that chases him through the entire series?
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Oct 20, 2015 12:28
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NarkyBark posted:I liked the ideas in the episode, but I didn't like that there were so many magic wand solutions to everything. And then the one time there should've been another one- shocking the girl back to life- they instead went for a magic wand immortality chip, which made it really plain that the entire story was just filler to get to the immortality decision. Literally. I don't know what happened, but when he was looking through the stuff for the immortality chip, I'm certain I heard the Sonic Screwdriver sound for just a second. Not sure what the point of it was, but it was there.
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Oct 20, 2015 12:29
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The bell went off two stories in a row with no explanation, I'm pretty sure there's some season-level explanation for it. Probably something to do with The Master.
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Oct 20, 2015 13:19
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Show used to be kind of goofy fun but its pretty intolerable now. I only watch this because my wife does and I really only pay attention to the chick.
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Oct 20, 2015 13:53
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Doctor Butts posted:Show used to be kind of goofy fun but its pretty intolerable now. I only watch this because my wife does and I really only pay attention to the chick. Clara's a fantastically interesting character, so good on you for recognizing that! 
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Oct 20, 2015 14:02
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