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The takeaway is its totally possible to clip your growth if you take the I demand as a mandate instead of an indication that things will be built if you zone it (but not necessarily staffed). Couple it with a death wave and you could end up relatively sunk with what residential demand you could have is taken up by the small trickle of out of towners filling in where your old folks used to be, and no one business staying open long enough to say "hey, need more residential!"
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Oct 19, 2015 17:36
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Baronjutter posted:What's the best way to check temps? I had some free little program on my last computer but people were saying the results are bullshit. HWMonitor is pretty good for this, but there's no logging so you'll need to keep an eye on it as you play the game (2nd monitor will make this much easier).
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Oct 19, 2015 17:39
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Ugh. This game. Or more accurately: the psychology of this game. I think this is the fifth city in a row I've abandoned because I figure out somewhere around the 40k mark that I've build some hideous flaw into the traffic solution that can't be fixed without razing two entire districts to make room for properly spaced intersections or main trunks. This time, it worked perfectly(ish) until I added mass rail transit to the mix, and suddenly every intersection was clogged with tourists and cargo. At some point, I just need to learn to plan ahead, but until then.  Also, I'm getting the impression that something isn't quite working with the Old Town and Heavy Traffic Ban policies, since I'm seeing an awful lot of vehicles using those areas as thoroughfares without actually having any business inside of them. I don't know if they're being treated as suggestions, similar to bus lanes, or I've just misunderstood what kind of traffic they're supposed to ban…
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Oct 19, 2015 18:23
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Tippis posted:Ugh. This game. To be fair, this is basically how cities work in real life, too. Just find a neighborhood populated by poor people/ethnic minorities and demolish it for a shiny new bypass!
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Oct 19, 2015 18:33
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Hubis posted:To be fair, this is basically how cities work in real life, too. I suppose. The only real difference is that, somehow, I always manage to build the industry worker communities, especially the ones that are supposed to feed forestry and farming zones with workers, really far away from the congested areas. So instead it's the endless rows of lvl-3 office and retail high-rises that have to be exploded in the name of progress. I wonder if this game might have some hidden political agenda, come to think of it. 
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Oct 19, 2015 18:41
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Tippis posted:I suppose. The only real difference is that, somehow, I always manage to build the industry worker communities, especially the ones that are supposed to feed forestry and farming zones with workers, really far away from the congested areas. So instead it's the endless rows of lvl-3 office and retail high-rises that have to be exploded in the name of progress. Fortunately in this game there's very little cost (mechanically speaking) to blowing up the entire downtown and rebuilding it. Even high-end zones will regrow pretty quickly. Can cost a lot in terms of time, though, especially if you do a lot of obsessive detail work. Scrapping and redoing a carefully-crafted block can be pretty demoralizing.
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Oct 19, 2015 19:17
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Tippis posted:I wonder if this game might have some hidden political agenda, come to think of it. Hidden?
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Oct 19, 2015 19:22
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Supraluminal posted:Fortunately in this game there's very little cost (mechanically speaking) to blowing up the entire downtown and rebuilding it. Even high-end zones will regrow pretty quickly. That's pretty much why I just keep restarting rather than fix it. Especially the whole business of tweaking the lights and turn lanes of intersections (Traffic Manager is neat but makes it easy to get lost in the details) and (re)setting bus routes and walk/bike paths make it feel like more effort than to just start over. After all, this time it'll work, right? 
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Oct 19, 2015 19:37
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zedprime posted:And historically? It ends up with a bit of a pulse due to college, retirement, and death cycles so healthy unemployment can be hard to judge in a vacuum since several of those percents aren't in the job market. Either way, I don't think there is much that could go wrong with dezoning jobs and starting slow from a new base line to try and encourage growth, unilateral shutdowns due to no workers is kind of telling. Baronjutter posted:The city will mostly take care of its self. So long as your R is happy and not abandoning (it's nearly impossible to drive them out other than long term lack of power or water) just ignore the complaints from industry and commerce. The waves of abandonment and complaints about lack of workers will eventually stabilize if given time. As long as you've got over 5-10% unemployment you don't need to do anything other than wait. You've got enough people, they're just not smart enough or busy doing something else or haven't found the jobs yet. Ignore it, keep building, they'll sort their own poo poo out. I ran Skylines a little longer and ahhh it's not bouncing back yet. Unemployment is now up to nearly 17%, for one thing:  There hasn't been a massive die-off, but the birth rate does seem to have leveled off a bit, which probably isn't helping growth rates:  Education is weird, because while the city's residents are still increasingly well-educated, the student population has absolutely plummeted and I can't figure out why.   That peak student population isn't far off from the peak tourist figure, which also dropped off around the same time:  Am I just relying too much on offices to count towards industrial RCI deman? Here's the history of zoning in the city. I know I've zoning more for residential even as the overall population has plateau'd, but whatever.  And the population graph itself:  The timing of this growth slow down is the most aggravating thing about it-- the city reaches Metropolis status at a population of 55000, and the city's population peaked at ~54700 and is now still just hovering at 54500 or so. It's so drat close, and I really want that next area unlock. e: July of 2025 now and the population is now below 54000. I zoned a single block of new dirty industry and office apiece, and kept track. Businesses built in both zones immediately, yet no workers have moved into either structure. Industry demand in the RCI-o-meter continues to rise. The population continues to fall. There is no sewage-spread plague going on, I've checked that already. e2: October of 2025 and the city's below 53000. Ofaloaf fucked around with this message at 22:03 on Oct 19, 2015 |
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Oct 19, 2015 21:13
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Might anybody know why this game is crashing at the "paradox" startup logo from too many mods (assuming its that because deleting some tends to fix it) even though I have 16 gigs of ram? It's never consistently a specific mod or asset, and sometimes the game will run fine until I add a few more assets/mods, at which point it crashes, and I'll have to go back and delete stuff that was working fine before. Before AD I never ran into this issue. I understand its likely just too many assets loading at the start but with 16 gigs of ram that seems a bit unlikely, when the game ran fine with this many mods before the update.
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Oct 19, 2015 22:24
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Ofaloaf posted:The timing of this growth slow down is the most aggravating thing about it-- the city reaches Metropolis status at a population of 55000, and the city's population peaked at ~54700 and is now still just hovering at 54500 or so. It's so drat close, and I really want that next area unlock. The bad news is your population is going to get worse before it gets better. All the old motherfuckers need to find their way to the incinerator to make way for new blood. 17% unemployment might not even be high enough at this point. Don't be afraid to dezone current industry and offices if they don't have full employment in existing stuff: you want a healthy springboard when it comes time to revitalize and if you have a bunch of half full stuff everything might lag behind trying to fill it all up. You basically have a period of peak baby boomer to weather through until the death rate chart hits an inflection point. The important thing to learn is that the RCI only signifies what the cims are willing to build, not what your city needs. I demand is literally insatiable unless you find some unknowable perfect ratio of industry and offices, because over-education drives up I demand. There is really nothing wrong with abusing that to focus on industry or office only, except you need to know you actually judge usefulness of more industry or office by your city unemployment, not by the meter.
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Oct 19, 2015 22:37
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zedprime posted:You basically have a period of peak baby boomer to weather through until the death rate chart hits an inflection point. Goddammit I was so close to being a metropolis. 
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Oct 19, 2015 22:51
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I don't know the exact break points and such in the engine, but just by the ratio of ages you should be concerned if there are more than 15% of your cims retired at once. If you are aiming for constant growth it probably shouldn't even get to 15%, as you should be continuously bringing in new blood preemptively.
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Oct 19, 2015 22:58
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Ofaloaf posted:What's the normal percentage of the population that's supposed to be senior, then? For the past year in-game it's been pretty steady at 25%, and now it's January of 2026 and the population's still falling and nearing the 51k mark. If you grew quickly the game imported like 20k people at age 25 over the course of 3 years or something. So it could be like half your population is old farts. You have created digital Florida. If you want to do a little urban renewal shall we say you could make them all drink poo water for a few months to kill some of them across all demographics and replace them with fresh ones.
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Oct 19, 2015 23:25
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OwlFancier posted:If you grew quickly the game imported like 20k people at age 25 over the course of 3 years or something. I'm a little worried that my first thought was "This is a fantastic idea".
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Oct 20, 2015 01:00
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I decided to pursue some of the special building requirements and got to the one that needs 1000 abandoned buildings in the city. For some reason, I thought that rather than sectioning off an area of the city as a ghost town, I would instead max out tax rates and slash all services. It worked, I brought my 60,000 pop city down to 200 people. I was then losing $100,000 a week so dropped tax rates to try and encourage some sort of recovery. I turned the automatic bulldoze back on for abandoned buildings. I didn't think about the fact that this would wipe out my underground electrical infrastructure, and that I would have to run high voltage power lines to the now dozens of scattered buildings and services across the city. I completely ran out of money still with a six digit weekly deficit while small groups of survivalists clung to the dream of civilisation in patches across what was a few months ago a vibrant city. tl;dr: I made Detroit
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Oct 20, 2015 01:35
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In a fit I delete all my old saves and now I lost all my unlocked unique buildings  Is there a way to fix this because gently caress gaming the system again to unlock it all. Some save I can download?
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Oct 20, 2015 02:59
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Solemn Sloth posted:I decided to pursue some of the special building requirements and got to the one that needs 1000 abandoned buildings in the city. Did you at least unlock "Monument to Deregulated Financial Markets" or "Monument to Most Favored Trade Nation: China"
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Oct 20, 2015 03:15
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 The decline stopped, at least. Goddamned boomers.
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Oct 20, 2015 03:26
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Well I hosed up kind of bad. I had no plan going in and every decision was just a knee jerk reaction with no thought behind it and the result is kind of hilarious. Check out my dope bridge that goes right over everything in the city.  I tried to lower land value to drive people out by placing prisons and zoos everywhere but goddamn if these people aren't stubborn.
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Oct 20, 2015 03:55
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Ofaloaf posted:
i've seen worse bounces than that. you didn't even lose 10k pop!
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Oct 20, 2015 03:57
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Mr. Sunabouzu posted:Well I hosed up kind of bad. You're going to really confuse some post-apocalyptic people who see that giant bridge as all that remains of your city and assume it used to be a bay or something.
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Oct 20, 2015 04:26
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Mr. Sunabouzu posted:Well I hosed up kind of bad. Congratulations, you made the Pulaski Skyway.
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Oct 20, 2015 15:55
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So I've been hunting around on the workshop and noticed some serious content holes. There's a billion stage 3 office buildings and stage 5 residential, more skyscrapers than anyone could ever need, most at lovely 10+ mb file sizes. But there's gently caress all for schools, hospitals, police. There's some good fire stations for some reason, but no police. There's of course a billion of the default buildings re-uploaded with some new props or stats (I wish we could filter these) but that's it. Someone really needs to make some more urban services. Schools, police stations, anything that look better in an urban context. The ghost busters FD is great, blends in perfectly in W2W/dense areas. But for police, schools, even the college are all suburban detached buildings. I wish I had any current 3d modeling skills I'd love to make some modern or historic urban service buildings. Baronjutter fucked around with this message at 20:44 on Oct 20, 2015 |
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Oct 20, 2015 20:41
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A W2W rail station wouldn't go amiss either.
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Oct 20, 2015 20:44
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Baronjutter posted:
Agreed! One day I went sifting through the stuff and found some interesting police services. There are toll booths that come with cop cars that I place on roads leading into crowded areas. I really like the look of that. http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=487175904&searchtext=toll+booth There is also a military base that provides cops. I like to put down a couple right outside of a town. http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=414043845&searchtext=military+base Here's a border control building to keep the riff raff. Comes with a couple cop cars. http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=437793993&searchtext=border+control And finally, my absolute favorite cop mod: Wayne Manor! It doesn't spawn Batman or anything, but it's a pretty building that give you, yep you guessed it, cawps! Here's were I put Bruce in my game :  http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=472592622&searchtext=wayne+manor Hope this helps!
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Oct 20, 2015 21:05
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Where can I get a corduroy ground texture like that?
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Oct 20, 2015 21:15
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It's part of the Paddington Bear set. Surprised you missed it! It replaces the rain jacket ground texture.
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Oct 20, 2015 21:21
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Yeah I saw all those, batman's house is really well done. But still, all things for the countryside or suburbs, nothing for downtown Where I was living I was across the street from a middle school. The school was a long narrow 7 story W2W building with a tiny yard out back. No parking, no field, zero setback from the street. It was just part of the street wall of buildings. https://goo.gl/maps/17e41B48rvJ2
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Oct 20, 2015 21:25
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I found plenty of good service buildings, the real problem is that I unsubbed from all of them before After Dark and I expect many of them will not be updated.
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Oct 20, 2015 22:09
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Arglebargle III posted:Where can I get a corduroy ground texture like that? On any European map for the low-low price of unknown reasons.
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Oct 20, 2015 23:56
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 The recovery's turned into a bit of a plateau again, with the population stuck at 51k.  Births now slightly outnumber deaths, but not by a huge margin. The senior population of the city has been driven down from its 25% peak at the height of the city's slowdown back down to a measly 22%, and it seems to have stuck there.   One thing I'd tried to do to bolster the city's population was spam low-density residential like a motherfucker, which helped for a bit. But I think I accidentally introduced a fuckton of completely uneducated people to the city when I did that, driving down the average education level of residents when that happened. Being uneducated, these newcomers can't get any jobs at the plentiful office zones in the city, but for some reason dirty factories are still struggling to score workers and benefit from that little influx of new blood. As a result, unemployment is up to 28-29% now and seems stuck there.  Few of these newcomers are actually going to school and learning, either, which is triply infuriating. It's just like the entire city is stuck on something and if I can just figure out how to break the logjam, then people will become educated, the unemployed will get jobs at the offices and factories which need workers but for some reason aren't currently hiring, and the city can start growing again and I can get that damnable Metropolis level and unlock stuff.  Maybe a poo plague might actually help.
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Oct 21, 2015 02:06
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Ofaloaf posted:One thing I'd tried to do to bolster the city's population was spam low-density residential like a motherfucker, which helped for a bit. But I think I accidentally introduced a fuckton of completely uneducated people to the city when I did that, driving down the average education level of residents when that happened. Being uneducated, these newcomers can't get any jobs at the plentiful office zones in the city, but for some reason dirty factories are still struggling to score workers and benefit from that little influx of new blood. As a result, unemployment is up to 28-29% now and seems stuck there. Ofaloaf posted:
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Oct 21, 2015 02:24
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zedprime posted:28% unemployment actually seems kind of low, if 22% of your city is retired, so I'm not surprised new businesses are still having trouble staffing up. I'm pretty drat sure the unemployment rate is calculated only from the fraction of your population that's actually trying to participate in the labor force. Kids, students and seniors shouldn't be reflected in it. I've never had trouble keeping my commercial and industrial staffed at 8-10% unemployment. That includes dirty industry in a city with near-universal education. I think there must be something weird going on with Ofaloaf's city, like rapid growth or large-scale (de-)zoning changes taking a long time to sort themselves out in the overall economy (which can happen), or a bad transportation network that's somehow making it hard for workers to make it to their jobs. Nothing looks too crazy in the overhead shot though, so I dunno. Ofaloaf, you running any unusual mods? Especially any that change building population/job levels or anything of that nature?
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Oct 21, 2015 03:20
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Supraluminal posted:Ofaloaf, you running any unusual mods? Especially any that change building population/job levels or anything of that nature? Nothing remarkably odd. The mods currently on are: -SimCity Fudged Population -Traffic Report Tool 2.0 -Billboard Remover -Advanced Vehicle Options 1.4.4 -Improved Asset Icons -Cimtographer -Prop Remover -First Person Camera -Metro/Train Swap -ElevatedTrainStationTrack Plus the usual assortment of extra buildings, vehicles, etc. There's nothing that should be majorly changing the way the game behaves. I don't even run Traffic++, because I can hear my computer screaming as it is when vanilla Skylines is running. Ofaloaf fucked around with this message at 04:07 on Oct 21, 2015 |
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Oct 21, 2015 03:33
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I just ignore graphs, more or less. I've already got a few industrial zones that have trouble getting workers, but there's plenty of workers, so that's their problem not mine.  I'm just going to grow this city until it brings my computer to its knees. About 140,000 so far, most of it is actually in grids but I've gone curvy in some of the outer suburbs. Biggest traffic snarls are around the cargo stations and ports so I'm going to have to look into configuring those better.
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Oct 21, 2015 06:00
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My favorite parts of this game are the early game where your city recognizably resembles a small town with like one industrial center and a commercial main street, and the late-late game where you have multiple "city" cities that were built around specialized centers, that are starting to blend into each other. The middle part is a lot of kind of aimless troubleshooting, but you have to do it to get to the end part where you've taken over the map. My favorite city from a few months ago had like entire satellite regions that were: glorious green waterside condos built up near a lumber industry zone; a horrible combination slum/trailer park set up to service a remote mining facility, which could really only be reached from the main city by train; the "core" of the city, which was one part super-wealthy low density suburbs, one part super dense university and commercial metropolis, and one part toxic slum adjacent to my original starter industrial complex. I was pretty happy with the core city, so most of my sprawl branched off from the horrible mining town and the megahipster lumber town, until they both got so huge that they connected directly onto the original road infrastructure, not just the trains and highways. Sometimes it's fun to really commit to the small town aesthetic, especially on some of these mountainous/pacific northwest maps. Go for the full Twin Peaks experience by purposefully treating your developed areas like little bonsai trees. If you would have to add too much sprawl to keep growing, then start up an entirely new "town" a little further up the highway. It makes your services kinda crazy, but it looks cool as hell, especially if you have some mods like the rural police station. Just little islands of civilization, surrounded by trees and mountains, popping up by the river.
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Oct 21, 2015 16:42
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I like building little offshoot townships that are only reasonably accessed by train and have the little rural services buildings. I just wish I had smaller road types when I go to do that. Oh, on that note does anyone have a link to a working mod that will give me more than 5x5 squares? 6x6 or 7x7 would be perfect. There's an 81 tile mod but it looks like it isn't working correctly according to the Steam comments? Also, I have theme mods so I can make a European district in a non-European map just fine; is there any way to do the opposite (ie not-European district in a Europe map)? Moridin920 fucked around with this message at 17:12 on Oct 21, 2015 |
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Oct 21, 2015 17:08
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So I just gave up and got the custom demand mod, it makes the game much faster to play. Have 0% unemployment, mass worker shortages but no R demand for some reason? Nah gently caress that poo poo, here's you R demand. It lets you manually add to the RCI or lock it in place. It's not like the vanilla RCI system actually is balanced or leads to a healthy city, so gently caress it I'm in charge!! I still can't figure out the traffic AI in this game, namely what exactly influences what mode people take. My vast sprawl sees everyone walking to the train station or riding their bike vast distances, almost no car traffic. My dense mixed use core which is a maze of dead-end streets connected by ped paths which should be a pedestrian paradise has nightmare traffic and people driving like 5 blocks instead of walking 10m down a pedestrian path. Has anyone done a definitive study or got a detailed explanation from CO exactly how cims choose to move about? I know they say "fastest" or "most direct" but from what I've seen it's almost like there's just a fixed maximum non-car mode share that you can quickly reach with basic transit and ped infrastructure but can't go much beyond it no matter how convoluted you make driving or how direct you make walking or transit. But I think the main problem, the #1 complaint I have with the game is that congestion is not taken into account at all. I think this would be very simple to do. Each CIM has opinions on the various modes of travel in the game which influence how likely they are to use a mode. This already exists in the game but it's fairly fixed. What I'd propose is allow these opinions to change over time using a mechanic similar to the "company reputation" system in Cities in Motion 1 & 2. If a CiM drives to work and it takes far longer than expected or they get stuck in traffic so bad they de-spawn it lowers their opinion on driving in the city, making them less likely in the future to choose that mode. If they have to wait for days at a bus stop because full buses keep passing them by, their opinion on transit will go down. There's no congestion or quality improvements we can really do for bikes or pedestrians, so they'd just stay the same. Already in the game CiM's enter the map with transport preferences. Some people are lazy and want to drive short distances, some people are fine biking 5k to work, others just love to walk. All I'm proposing is just have a "reputation" system for modes that allows CiM's to slightly change their preferences over time. This would add much more gameplay to transit as frequency of vehicles would matter a bit more, people would have better feelings about transit if they don't have to wait too long and their trip is quick. Over time a good transit system would gain a reputation among the population and see increased use, or the opposite, it would be self balancing. Same with traffic, if your city is a nightmare of grid lock driving would get a bad reputation and people would look to alternatives. This wouldn't be hard to implement, no real time looking at congestion or picking alternate routes. Just "did my car de-spawn in traffic 10 days in a row? Maybe gently caress driving" or "Did I wait at this metro station for 2 months? Yeah gently caress this city's transit system".
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Oct 21, 2015 20:11
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| # ? May 25, 2024 23:47 |
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  Making the countryside look not barren is really relaxing but also super loving time consuming. I wish the engine allowed terrain painting instead of the hacky way it is currently with ploppable sections. My finger would also really appreciate being able to hold the mouse button down to draw a single line of trees.
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Oct 21, 2015 20:15
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