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While there are some small speakers with shockingly good bass response, well...nothing is quite the same as being able to move some air. I have a pair of these in my living room and they do quite well for such tiny cabinets, Definitive's claim of 26 Hz is just ever so slightly optimistic.
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Oct 19, 2015 19:29
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Really good subwoofers are so cheap now compared to high end speakers I don't get the obsession with the bass response of small[ish] speakers. You can get a couple sealed Power Sound Audio or Rythmik subs for 2 grand and they'll bass the gently caress out of any normal room for music. Even the millionaire crazy person demo room [$200k in Naim and Audio Physik] at my local hifi shop doesn't blow me away with bass, it sounds great but could easily use a little reinforcement. That said I'm probably the only person who's ever played Dillinja on it, you don't need that if you're exclusively listening to '60s jazz records and Dire Straits*. Maybe the idea of a single already tuned speaker box is more appealing? Subs do take more work to get set up right. My rough "dream system" budget would probably max out around 8-10k in hardware plus a couple grand for room treatment and a really comfy chair. *Why do audiophiles like them so much?
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Oct 20, 2015 00:56
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Well, 2k on a sub is a bit spendy for a lot of people, myself included. I think the idea with extended bass response on small speakers is a) not being squeaky when used alone and b) making it easier to blend with a sub. Also a lot of people don't have a ton of space for audio gear so sometimes a bookshelf or small tower with good bass response is the best you're going to do. Also lol if you don't think jazz or Dire Straits benefit from low bass response (not as much as Dillinja, sure, but still)
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Oct 20, 2015 01:11
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My point is spending more money doesn't defeat physics WRT cabinet and driver size. That $2k number was for a pair of 15" subs with several hundred watts of real amplification which among the crazy audio person set is 1/5 the price of a mid-level power cable. Subs just make sense to me, you can take some of the stress off your fancy tube amp and focus on getting speakers with mids and highs that sound exactly like what you want. Plus the modularity means you can get all tweako on the cables, power supply, etc. Even if you have great tower speakers you can still cross them over at like 40hz. My point is that in a $20k+ system it just seems silly to not consider them but among that set they're considered a home theater thing exclusively. I did just realize a lot of modern subs use class D amps which are anathema to audiophiles since they undoubtedly sound like computer chips, though. Someone needs to make a tube-powered sub [assuming one doesn't inevitably already exist].
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Oct 20, 2015 01:30
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qirex posted:Dire Straits* I don't know. We use a Dire Straits track for a demo of one our highest end consumer level products at work, and I tried to change it to a Q-Tip song that I think really sounds a lot better, and my boss told me to change it back. So I picked a Belle and Sebastian track because maybe that's a bit less "urban" and in the end we still go with Money for Nothing, which takes like 90 seconds to even start...
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Oct 20, 2015 01:44
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qirex posted:My point is spending more money doesn't defeat physics WRT cabinet and driver size. That $2k number was for a pair of 15" subs with several hundred watts of real amplification which among the crazy audio person set is 1/5 the price of a mid-level power cable. Subs just make sense to me, you can take some of the stress off your fancy tube amp and focus on getting speakers with mids and highs that sound exactly like what you want. Plus the modularity means you can get all tweako on the cables, power supply, etc. Even if you have great tower speakers you can still cross them over at like 40hz. My point is that in a $20k+ system it just seems silly to not consider them but among that set they're considered a home theater thing exclusively. Oh well, in light of spending new car money on audio, sure. fart simpson posted:I don't know. We use a Dire Straits track for a demo of one our highest end consumer level products at work, and I tried to change it to a Q-Tip song that I think really sounds a lot better, and my boss told me to change it back. So I picked a Belle and Sebastian track because maybe that's a bit less "urban" and in the end we still go with Money for Nothing, which takes like 90 seconds to even start... Do you work where I used to work 
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Oct 20, 2015 01:48
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qirex posted:*Why do audiophiles like them so much? Like with a lot of music popular with audiophiles, Dire Straits are pretty inoffensive and the majority of their music sounds good on anything. Which also explains why every rear end in a top hat shows off their gear with Diana Krall or that acoustic cover of Hotel California. With subwoofers, I find a lot of people are actually integrating subwoofers into their systems now. The equipment is so cheap and resources so plentiful that most people reach a conclusion that everything sounds way better if you take a more objective approach to audio. That's really the thing, most audiophiles who still hate subwoofers for music are the same types of people who couldn't position a pair of speakers if their life depended on it.
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Oct 20, 2015 04:27
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Honestly I only don't want floorstanding speakers or subs ATM because my cats will shred them 
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Oct 20, 2015 04:51
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afen posted:I like my big speakers. I'd like to get some smaller ones, but I'm afraid they'll sound too "small". Are those infinities?
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Oct 20, 2015 11:56
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afen posted:I like my big speakers. I'd like to get some smaller ones, but I'm afraid they'll sound too "small". There are no such thing as speakers that are too big, only rooms that are too small.
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Oct 20, 2015 12:22
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Sultans of Swing is a well produced, superbly mixed track with a well defined bassline, and it's a pretty good song too. I can't imagine why anyone would use Money For Nothing over that one.
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Oct 20, 2015 12:24
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Just the extra bombast I suppose. Plus that guitar line still rules, so.
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Oct 20, 2015 13:42
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qirex posted:*Why do audiophiles like them so much? If I remember correctly - and it was 30 years or so ago so memory might be dimming slightly  - Brothers in Arms was one of the first big selling albums on CD, plus it was recorded digitally. So it will have been widely available for testing CD players, and then carried forward as the 'de facto' because it was what everyone was familiar with.
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Oct 20, 2015 16:19
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Dire Straits is insanely good and I'm kinda wondering why that point needs to be explained
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Oct 20, 2015 18:21
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Not a Children posted:Dire Straits is insanely good and I'm kinda wondering why that point needs to be explained Anything can be overplayed. I was wondering a while back why Dire Straits didn't seem to have the lasting impact of many other popular musical acts despite being very popular. I'm going to pretend it was overuse in stereo demonstrations.
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Oct 20, 2015 18:25
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Here's a ~30 minute video where Geoff Martin (Tonmeister at B&O) explains what the hell is going on with the Beolab 90. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yC0hjRHCYs0
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Oct 20, 2015 18:47
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vDf0j3SEseU somewhat related
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Oct 20, 2015 18:49
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Clarence posted:If I remember correctly - and it was 30 years or so ago so memory might be dimming slightly https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mere-exposure_effect
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Oct 21, 2015 02:13
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Panty Saluter posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vDf0j3SEseU Nice!
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Oct 22, 2015 01:44
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BigFactory posted:Are those infinities? Yes, Kappa 9.2. I need a bigger amp...
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Oct 22, 2015 11:50
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afen posted:Yes, Kappa 9.2. I need a bigger amp... I have a pair of lovely bookshelfs from the late 80s that look like teeny versions of them. No eMit tweeter in those, right?
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Oct 22, 2015 12:15
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This is pretty great: http://parttimeaudiophile.com/2015/10/22/rmaf-2015-audiokinesis-violates-space-and-time/quote:If you’re not ready, you’re gonna wonder what the heck is going on. If, maybe, you’ve made a wrong turn. And this is precisely why I always go hunting for Duke and James. While I never know quite what to expect, I do know this one thing: I’m not going to be disappointed. quote:quote:The word non-plussed doesn’t get a lot of play in modern usage, and it’s a shame. Essentially, I didn’t “get it”. Did something happen? I asked Duke to cut it back in again, and he proceeded to cut the Generators in and out every 20 seconds or so, but after that first surprise-at-no-surprise, I heard it. Or rather, didn’t. Which was interesting. He's so close to getting it and then... quote:Seriously, folks. Duke and James are magicians. This demo was like a Penn and Teller routine. “How did you do that?” Science, baby! It’s all science. Olympic Mathlete fucked around with this message at 13:49 on Oct 22, 2015 |
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Oct 22, 2015 13:47
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afen posted:Yes, Kappa 9.2. I need a bigger amp... Roughly 85 db efficient with impedance dropping below 4 ohms in numerous places, I'd wager
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Oct 22, 2015 14:54
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88h88 posted:This is pretty great: http://parttimeaudiophile.com/2015/10/22/rmaf-2015-audiokinesis-violates-space-and-time/ I'll sum it up as quote:You'd think something that costs $1,800 a piece would have some effect on your sound, but these absolutely don't. Truly magical!
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Oct 22, 2015 15:06
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EL BROMANCE posted:I'll sum it up as I missed that somehow. Superb.
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Oct 22, 2015 15:56
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BigFactory posted:I have a pair of lovely bookshelfs from the late 80s that look like teeny versions of them. No eMit tweeter in those, right? They made several small speakers, here's a nice site: http://www.infinity-classics.de/models/index-models.htm Panty Saluter posted:Roughly 85 db efficient with impedance dropping below 4 ohms in numerous places, I'd wager They're pretty hard to drive, one guy in Norway measured that only the small drivers pull about 600W at most! I use an Aragon 4004MkII, but it's not nearly enough.
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Oct 23, 2015 15:41
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Edit: wrong thread. 
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Oct 23, 2015 16:39
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qirex posted:I did just realize a lot of modern subs use class D amps which are anathema to audiophiles since they undoubtedly sound like computer chips, though. Someone needs to make a tube-powered sub [assuming one doesn't inevitably already exist]. Class D amps are a perfect fit for subs because the potential problems with high frequency distortion of Class D are bypassed entirely, power efficiency is way beyond Class A or AB and the distortion of the sub transducer alone dwarfs the amp by magnitudes. Using tubes to drive subs is the most clinically retarded thing anybody can do, although the lack of basic intelligence to understand basic engineering principles is a proud trait of audiofool circles soooo...
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Oct 24, 2015 06:47
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Maybe I'm just getting old and deaf (in fact I'm pretty sure I am), but I had forgotten how much better speakers sound when properly goosed up. Not that I have a ton of opportunities to listen at more than conversation level these days. All of a sudden it's like the speakers are properly loaded up and actually moving... e: does keeping the volume low also compress things dynamically? I mean beyond the average volume being lower, it's like attack and decay are also altered Panty Saluter fucked around with this message at 17:52 on Oct 26, 2015 |
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Oct 26, 2015 17:50
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Panty Saluter posted:Maybe I'm just getting old and deaf (in fact I'm pretty sure I am), but I had forgotten how much better speakers sound when properly goosed up. Not that I have a ton of opportunities to listen at more than conversation level these days. All of a sudden it's like the speakers are properly loaded up and actually moving... That's what loudness buttons are for. Speakers can't reproduce highs and lows as well at low volumes.
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Oct 26, 2015 18:01
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Oh I'm familiar with that. That still doesn't change the dynamics reproduction at low volume (and every loudness switch I've ever used has been a bad guess at what needs to come up and how much). I'd guess a lot of it has to do with the amount of excursion, since a woofer that is barely moving is only creating small ripples (and likely smoothed attack and decay curves) in the air but when you get it moving it can create distinctions much more easily. Man I love music and wish I could play it like I want to more often.
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Oct 26, 2015 18:12
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Music is just better loud. It's why I bought a house. And why I'm going deaf in my mid 20s.
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Oct 26, 2015 18:15
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gently caress it. You're gonna go deaf eventually, you may as well enjoy it while you have it. Hopefully there will be a nanomachine/stem cell solution in the next few years anyway
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Oct 26, 2015 18:39
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KillHour posted:Big Band: Big Bad Voodoo Daddy (I've seen these guys live) 
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Oct 26, 2015 21:44
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Collateral Damage posted:This is from like 20 pages back, but I just want to thank you for introducing me to these guys. I was introduced to those guys by the same place that inspired my username
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Oct 26, 2015 21:54
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Hooooooooooly poo poo guys, I've been trying to find this one webcomic that is perfect for this thread for literally years. All I could remember was it had a blonde guy and his wife/girlfriend as the straight man. Trouble is, that describes about 50% of all webcomics. For a long time I thought it was in some poker-themed one called '+EV', I even browsed through that entire comic a few times convinced it was in there somewhere. But then, in some other thread somebody posted a comic from Bigger Than Cheeses and I thought I recognized the characters, so I just spent 2 days absentmindedly hitting 'Next' through the archives, and on the seven hundredth and third one, I finally found it. It's even vaguely on-topic for subchat /!\ AUDIOPHILES /!\  So this post isn't completely masturbatory, I picked up a Rythmik LV12R subwoofer for $650 or so through Ascend Acoustics a while back and I've been pretty happy with it (even if the box does say "Articulate Bass for the Discerning Audiophile" on it  ). It's a pretty huge box and can rattle any room I'm likely to ever put it in. If you're in the market for an entry-level standalone sub I recommend checking this one out.vvv Maybe they mean the overall dimensions? The LV12R is a 12" speaker but the box is something like 22x24x19 inches. "Hey, it's compact for us..." Takes No Damage fucked around with this message at 17:14 on Oct 28, 2015 |
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Oct 28, 2015 06:51
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I enjoy the fact that Rythmik has what they call a 'compact' 15" subwoofer.
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Oct 28, 2015 16:44
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Quick, someone convince me I don't need this. http://www.parts-express.com/cerwin-vega-ab-36c-stroker-18-folded-horn-subwoofer-system-4-vc-woofer--246-410
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Oct 29, 2015 02:21
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KillHour posted:Quick, someone convince me I don't need this. http://www.parts-express.com/pedocs/brochures/246-410-cerwin-vega-ab-36c-brochure.pdf -3 at 40 Hz and -10 at 33 Hz. Pass.
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Oct 29, 2015 03:01
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KillHour posted:Quick, someone convince me I don't need this. It's a PA sub. A horn one. Which work best in pairs or groups. Wall or corner loaded. And it's not particularly sensitive. And doesn't go low because the horn path is short. And it weighs 10 tons. And is a Cerwin Vega. And needs a billion watts of fan noise power amp to move the cone. And it's ugly. And needs a whack of EQ to sound decent. How'd I do?
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Oct 29, 2015 17:32
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