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Gestalt Intellect posted:There's nothing wrong with them doing something different with the franchise as long as they do it well though, and they definitely did with prime. The important thing about the move to first person is that they kept the most important things about the series intact (mainly the atmosphere IMO), and arguably making it first person not only preserved the atmosphere but made it way better as a result. In fact I think metroid actually works better as a first person game than as a sidescroller. They could have screwed it up, but retro did such an incredibly good job with prime 1 and 2 that those games are very strong arguments for why people should be willing to try something new with a series. It's weird how much fans end up demanding certain things out of a game just based on the franchise. I disagree completely. I've admittedly not played much of prime and don't care too much for first person perspective angled games, that said I want to restress that I don't think the prime series is not a very good series. However, these arguments focusing on the principle similarities feel like saying Football and Futball are pretty much the same game because they both involve teams trying to work against each other to move a ball across a grassy field into a goal on the opposite side, as if the like 20% similarity overrides the 80% difference (these numbers are pulled completely out of my rear end to paint the picture of which factor between comparing and contrasting is the majority). It's weird how much it feels like both the game makers and the fans seem to so strongly be wearing blinders on this issue. Like I said, if I were one for paranoid conclusions, I'd almost think that Other M's bad design was in place to say to those like me "see, this is what you wanted and it sucks. The FPS games were better, nyah!"
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Oct 19, 2015 11:32
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U.T. Raptor posted:To be honest, the canonical name of the Persona 4 protagonist is "Yu". so that would be pretty strange in its own right. Oh yeah, though I was actually really pleased when they decided to just have his name be Yu in Dancing All Night.
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Oct 19, 2015 11:48
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U.T. Raptor posted:To be honest, the canonical name of the Persona 4 protagonist is "Yu". so that would be pretty strange in its own right. That was decided 2-3 years after P4 had been out so that wouldn't have influenced the original script at all.
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Oct 19, 2015 13:10
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WeaponGradeSadness posted:The only time this ever really stuck out to me was in Mass Effect, where your lover will only ever call you by your last name. Their parents' bad ideas for names led to a rough childhood for Commander Commander Shepard.
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Oct 19, 2015 15:57
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Though the first post went unnoticed, I want to talk about the DS game Flower, Sun and Rain again briefly because I missed maybe the best troll about it. After an entire game of NPCs calling you stupid, dumb and ugly and walking back and forth across the map for inane reasons and trivial rewards, you approach the end of the game. However (and spoilers if you care, I guess) what was a kinda fun trippy Lynchian story becomes impenetrable, with characters referencing things and mentioning things that seemingly come out of nowhere. The final twist is a character takes off a mask and is... Some blonde guy? It turns out that Flower, Sun and Rain is actually a sequel to a game called The Silver Case, which was never mentioned anywhere. The Silver Case was a 10 year old PS1 game that never came out on the DS. Flower, Sun and Rain was also a port of a PS1 game, meaning they... Ported the DS sequel before the original. And they ended up never making a Silver Case port.
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Oct 19, 2015 16:30
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Choco1980 posted:I disagree completely. I've admittedly not played much of prime and don't care too much for first person perspective angled games, that said I want to restress that I don't think the prime series is not a very good series. However, these arguments focusing on the principle similarities feel like saying Football and Futball are pretty much the same game because they both involve teams trying to work against each other to move a ball across a grassy field into a goal on the opposite side, as if the like 20% similarity overrides the 80% difference (these numbers are pulled completely out of my rear end to paint the picture of which factor between comparing and contrasting is the majority). It's weird how much it feels like both the game makers and the fans seem to so strongly be wearing blinders on this issue. Like I said, if I were one for paranoid conclusions, I'd almost think that Other M's bad design was in place to say to those like me "see, this is what you wanted and it sucks. The FPS games were better, nyah!" Other M isn't a 2D Metroid either, though  Anyhow, I was under the impression that Sakamoto hated Prime and tried to bury it with Other M.Also, if Prime isn't Metroid then none of the 3D Zeldas have been Zeldas either 
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Oct 19, 2015 16:34
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Gabriel Pope posted:Other M isn't a 2D Metroid either, though Almost right - he actually said that as far as 3D games go only Other M is canon and the Prime trilogy isn't 
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Oct 19, 2015 17:52
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Calico Heart posted:Almost right - he actually said that as far as 3D games go only Other M is canon and the Prime trilogy isn't That's what I was talking about. I meant "bury with" in the sense of using Other M with which to bury Prime (THIS IS THE REAL 3D METROID), not in the sense of burying Other M alongside Prime.
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Oct 19, 2015 18:01
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Palisader posted:Persona 4 does this, of course (Persona 3 does as well, but I think 4 is more noticeable). I'm still really weirded out when the chick I'm romancing keeps just calling me senpai. In the English translation for P4 at least, the script still uses the name you enter, and the voice acting pauses whenever the name appears in the subtitles.
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Oct 19, 2015 20:09
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Your Computer posted:I may be a bit late to the party, but RE: Metroid: Other M I made this video to summarize Sakamoto's vision:
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Oct 19, 2015 20:48
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dpbjinc posted:In the English translation for P4 at least, the script still uses the name you enter, and the voice acting pauses whenever the name appears in the subtitles. SAY THE NAME I SEE IT IN THE LINE RIGHT THERE. FFFFFFUUCK YOU YOSUKE
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Oct 19, 2015 20:56
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Chinaman7000 posted:SAY THE NAME I SEE IT IN THE LINE RIGHT THERE. FFFFFFUUCK YOU YOSUKE I really only remember Yosuke and Dojima doing that, yeah. Staring at you silently, refusing to dignify your name by speaking it. PYF Trolls From Game Developers: Persona turned me into a fuckin' anime weirdo
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Oct 19, 2015 21:04
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dpbjinc posted:In the English translation for P4 at least, the script still uses the name you enter, and the voice acting pauses whenever the name appears in the subtitles. They did the same with DQ8, with the only person directly adressing you by 'name' is Yangus. And all he calls you is Guv.
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Oct 19, 2015 21:21
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dpbjinc posted:In the English translation for P4 at least, the script still uses the name you enter, and the voice acting pauses whenever the name appears in the subtitles. Devil Survivor Overclocked does something similar. The text uses the name you enter for the MC, but the voiced dialog changes any instance of the name to "him" or "you" if speaking to him directly. It sort of works, but then it kinda sounds like they're talking about the MC as if he isn't there.
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Oct 19, 2015 22:04
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This is why Saints Row is smart as gently caress, the first game everyone calls you the both meta as gently caress and totally appropriate name "playa". Then you become the Boss, and you are forever called Boss.
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Oct 19, 2015 22:06
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This makes me wonder what atypical and/or vulgar voiced names will be accounted for in Fallout 4.
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Oct 19, 2015 22:47
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Light Gun Man posted:This is why Saints Row is smart as gently caress, the first game everyone calls you the both meta as gently caress and totally appropriate name "playa". Then you become the Boss, and you are forever called Boss.  Red Faction games confirmed as Metal Gear canon.
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Oct 19, 2015 22:48
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Gabriel Pope posted:Other M isn't a 2D Metroid either, though Thanks for reading my posts and missing the whole point. It wasn't the 3D I was complaining about, it was how the first person perspective completely changed the experience between the prime series and the other metroid games. Other M on the surface looked like "hey guys, we finally made a metroid game that feels more like the old ones!" when in reality it was "hey guys, gently caress you all and your mothers you ungrateful sacks of poo poo!" Zelda is probably the absolute best case of transition from 2D to 3D retaining the "feel" of the game series. And that's a Very Good Thing, because Zelda style games are such that even with poor story or stuff like that, they're still pretty fun to play. I really think comparing Zelda and Metroid as far as the technical directions their franchises went in are apples and oranges. A better discussion may be the Mario franchise? I mean, the original 2D Marios have a very evocative, recognizable gameplay style to them--move to the right quickly, getting powerups & coins, and defeating obstacle-monsters along the way, getting to the goal line before the timer runs out. We can all agree on that. When the 3D Mario games started coming out, you can't really argue that they're at all the same thing. Suddenly the rush to the finish line becomes a slow exploration and collection experience. The basic elements were there--pick up coins, hop on enemy heads, rescue the princess from Bowser, etc, but they were undeniably very differently played games. HOWEVER, both styles of game, the 2D Marios and the 3D Marios were well crafted and a lot of fun. I think it was about a decade later that Nintendo experimented and made first I want to say New Super Mario Bros on the DS, and realized hey, people still want to play the old style games AS WELL as the new style. What Nintendo needs to do is take that paradigm of thinking--that there's big audiences for both the Prime and Traditional Metroid experiences--and cater to both audiences and continue to make all the money and keep the franchise alive.
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Oct 19, 2015 23:18
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Prime and Fusion came out at the same time and even had crossover content...
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Oct 19, 2015 23:33
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Simply Simon posted:Prime and Fusion came out at the same time and even had crossover content...
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Oct 20, 2015 00:28
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U.T. Raptor posted:To be honest, the canonical name of the Persona 4 protagonist is "Yu". so that would be pretty strange in its own right. That reminds me of a (probably unintentional) P4 troll: It's impossible to name the main character his canonical name, Yu Narukami, in the English version because there's not enough characters to fit his last name in.
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Oct 20, 2015 01:02
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Silentman0 posted:That reminds me of a (probably unintentional) P4 troll: It's impossible to name the main character his canonical name, Yu Narukami, in the English version because there's not enough characters to fit his last name in. What? Why? Both names give you 8 characters to work with.
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Oct 20, 2015 01:06
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Choco1980 posted:Thanks for reading my posts and missing the whole point. It wasn't the 3D I was complaining about, it was how the first person perspective completely changed the experience between the prime series and the other metroid games. Other M on the surface looked like "hey guys, we finally made a metroid game that feels more like the old ones!" when in reality it was "hey guys, gently caress you all and your mothers you ungrateful sacks of poo poo!" Of course, neither Nintendo or Team Ninja actually thought this. Sakamoto did. He hates the Prime series because of how he didn't have any involvement in it, more or less said he considered them to be non-canonical, and indirectly contradicted their introduction to the canon. Those greatly written Space Pirates, experts at putting their best and brightest to work on horrible ideas until they somehow work? Nah, they're mindless monsters now.
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Oct 20, 2015 01:12
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graybook posted:This makes me wonder what atypical and/or vulgar voiced names will be accounted for in Fallout 4. Supposedly someone who played it at Quakecon said they recorded for the name Fuckface
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Oct 20, 2015 01:18
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FactsAreUseless posted:Listen, changing the game from an exploration-based 2-D platforming shooter built around finding and using power-ups to an exploration-based 3-D platforming shooter built around finding and using power-ups that has near-identical pacing and atmosphere renders it unrecognizable. Furthermore, I love extremely accurate depictions of trains and elevators. I don't get it either. Other M was the one that turned metroid into an action game where mashing the D-Pad made samus flip around with literal invincibility, and the only powerups you got for the most part were the ones you were railroaded into.
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Oct 20, 2015 01:33
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Silentman0 posted:That reminds me of a (probably unintentional) P4 troll: It's impossible to name the main character his canonical name, Yu Narukami, in the English version because there's not enough characters to fit his last name in. yes there is
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Oct 20, 2015 01:33
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Cleretic posted:Of course, neither Nintendo or Team Ninja actually thought this. The most weirdly spiteful thing about Other M is that it introduces a character that looks almost identical to a (heroic) NPC in Metroid Prime, but is mustache twirling evil. It's so specific that I can't convince myself it's just a coincidence.
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Oct 20, 2015 01:37
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Silentman0 posted:That reminds me of a (probably unintentional) P4 troll: It's impossible to name the main character his canonical name, Yu Narukami, in the English version because there's not enough characters to fit his last name in. The main character in Chrono Trigger is named Crono because there's only space for five letter names.
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Oct 20, 2015 01:50
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Alaois posted:yes there is Yeah, I am literally in the middle of a P4 playthrough where I named my protagonist Yu Narukami.
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Oct 20, 2015 02:24
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I think they might be referring to the spinoff Persona Q, which I think had a shorter character limit.
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Oct 20, 2015 02:46
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Sleeveless posted:The main character in Chrono Trigger is named Crono because there's only space for five letter names. You can name most of your party by their secret real names though Marle -> Nadia Robo -> R-66Y / Prome if you wanna get fancy I guess Frog -> Glenn Magus -> Janus Why the hell did so many people have multiple names in CT?
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Oct 20, 2015 03:08
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Light Gun Man posted:Why the hell did so many people have multiple names in CT? crono's true name was fabio, but he never spoke so he wasn't able to reveal it
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Oct 20, 2015 03:20
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Choco1980 posted:Zelda is probably the absolute best case of transition from 2D to 3D retaining the "feel" of the game series. And that's a Very Good Thing, because Zelda style games are such that even with poor story or stuff like that, they're still pretty fun to play. I really think comparing Zelda and Metroid as far as the technical directions their franchises went in are apples and oranges. Actually, no. The 3D Zeldas completely changed the look, feel, and gameplay of Zelda--and not only that, they largely redefined what it meant to be "a Zelda game." They carried forward some aspects of tbe formula like dungeon items/boss weaknesses/quest item collecting, but greatly downplayed the run-and-slash gameplay and open world exploration of the 2D Zeldas in favor of more story and more elaborate environmental puzzles. If anything the 3D Zeldas were an even bigger departure than the Prime games and their faithful Metroidvania formula--but players thought the new and improved puzzles and the more rhythm-based combat made for a better game, so the changes stuck.
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Oct 20, 2015 03:26
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Choco1980 posted:Metroid You said you haven't actually played the Prime series that much. Honestly sounds like you've barely played it at all and should give the games another try.
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Oct 20, 2015 06:48
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mycot posted:I think they might be referring to the spinoff Persona Q, which I think had a shorter character limit. Interestingly in Japanese they're some of the only games I've seen that let you actually use kanji for your character name so your full name ends up being only about 4-5 characters on average. (Yu Narukami is actually only 3) RillAkBea has a new favorite as of 07:33 on Oct 20, 2015 |
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Oct 20, 2015 07:15
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Mildly Amusing posted:Supposedly someone who played it at Quakecon said they recorded for the name Fuckface 
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Oct 20, 2015 10:55
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Speaking of names in games, I remember Black and White would try to find out your name (I forgot how exactly, reading the PC name I think) and would occasionally play a whispered audio file of your name during random moments of gameplay. Freaks you out when you're playing at like 2 in the morning. Especially since it occasionally whispered 'death' too. Actually the real troll in that game was insisting on the stupid gesture system; rather than have actual buttons for casting spells they decided it would be better to force the player to make 'gestures' with the mouth by like, drawing a spiral or whatever to get the specific spell. Thing is the recognition for the gestures were finicky as gently caress.
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Oct 20, 2015 11:03
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The White Dragon posted:crono's true name was fabio, but he never spoke so he wasn't able to reveal it
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Oct 20, 2015 11:34
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I thought Crono's true name was Jesus? Or was it Felix?  I actually named him Jesus once and it was great because everyone sounded really frustrated. "Jesus, are you still sleeping!?"  To make the relevant to the trolling thread, that's the third line in the game despite the original translation of it being iconic enough to advertise the remake with, because gently caress Woolsley or something. But not so much as to scrap his changes to character names, apparently? 
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Oct 20, 2015 11:50
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Gabriel Pope posted:Actually, no. The 3D Zeldas completely changed the look, feel, and gameplay of Zelda--and not only that, they largely redefined what it meant to be "a Zelda game." They carried forward some aspects of tbe formula like dungeon items/boss weaknesses/quest item collecting, but greatly downplayed the run-and-slash gameplay and open world exploration of the 2D Zeldas in favor of more story and more elaborate environmental puzzles. If anything the 3D Zeldas were an even bigger departure than the Prime games and their faithful Metroidvania formula--but players thought the new and improved puzzles and the more rhythm-based combat made for a better game, so the changes stuck. It doesn't help that Ocarina was more popular than any previous Zelda game. I've lost track of the number of times I've seen/heard people refer to Ocarina as "the first Zelda game". Speaking of Zelda, the Japanese version of the first game (the real one ) has one of my favorite gimmicks/trolls. Pols Voice is an enemy you start encountering late in the game; it's basically a yellow lump with giant ears whose description in the manual reads "A ghost with big ears and a weak point ‒ he hates loud noise." They're invulnerable to all your weapons except the sword, which takes about a billion hits to kill them. Well, close to the point where you encounter Pols Voices, you get the Recorder, which makes a loud noise. A natural match, right? Nope - the Recorder does nothing at all to Pols Voice. Instead, the player has to make the loud noise: the Famicom's second controller has a microphone, and you have to pick it up and shout into it. Doing that kills every Pols Voice in the room. (Sadly, the US NES doesn't have a microphone, so instead Pols Voices are vulnerable to arrows in the US version.)
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