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Are you a This poll is closed. |
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| homeowner |
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39 | 22.41% |
| renter |
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69 | 39.66% |
| stupid peace of poo poo |
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66 | 37.93% |
| Total: | 174 votes | ||
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BARONS CYBER SKULL posted:Do you say you've "done wees"? to my kids I would I gue ss
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Oct 20, 2015 09:46
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Butt Wizard posted:Rugby players don't have a monopoly on being complete turds to women though, and talking about it like it's a causal connection is overlooking the fact it's a very big problem in a bunch of different communities that have gently caress all to do with rugby. Like yea, I get it, the old 50s stereotypes are entrenched, but there's a bunch of kids and women regularly getting the bash from partners who have never stepped foot in a rugby clubroom in their life. Yes, but it seems that people who are good at sport, or peripherally connected to it, especially rugby, seem to get preferential treatment if they ever see the inside of a courtroom.
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Oct 20, 2015 10:00
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Butt Wizard posted:Rugby players don't have a monopoly on being complete turds to women though, and talking about it like it's a causal connection is overlooking the fact it's a very big problem in a bunch of different communities that have gently caress all to do with rugby. Like yea, I get it, the old 50s stereotypes are entrenched, but there's a bunch of kids and women regularly getting the bash from partners who have never stepped foot in a rugby clubroom in their life. I can name a rugby player who got away with shooting an endangered seal in the face, can you name a non rugby player who did the same? Or any human being who broke a woman's back and received no jail time, retained a high paying job, and had dozens of strangers leaping to their defense? This whole "you nerds just don't like ruggers cause you got bullied" bullshit you love to drag out is a massive part of the problem. New Zealander's meat head culture inherently links sports, violence, and dislike of the 'weak'
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Oct 20, 2015 10:01
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Varkk posted:Yes, but it seems that people who are good at sport, or peripherally connected to it, especially rugby, seem to get preferential treatment if they ever see the inside of a courtroom. This is way more succinct and eloquent
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Oct 20, 2015 10:02
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SurreptitiousMuffin posted:We could try democratic elections. Look, apparently untouchable right-wing shitheads who were on a ridiculous winning streak can get taken down: I appreciate that, mate. But this is feeling more and more like "Exception proves the rule" every passing week.
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Oct 20, 2015 10:03
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Infotainment! posted:I can name a rugby player who got away with shooting an endangered seal in the face, can you name a non rugby player who did the same? Or any human being who broke a woman's back and received no jail time, retained a high paying job, and had dozens of strangers leaping to their defense? This whole "you nerds just don't like ruggers cause you got bullied" bullshit you love to drag out is a massive part of the problem. New Zealander's meat head culture inherently links sports, violence, and dislike of the 'weak' Can you point out to me where I said it was a case of nerds not liking rugby because they have a chip on their shoulder about being bullied? Varkk posted:Yes, but it seems that people who are good at sport, or peripherally connected to it, especially rugby, seem to get preferential treatment if they ever see the inside of a courtroom. Yea, I agree and it fucks me off immensely when people who are on $120K contracts at the age of 20 get light slaps on the wrist for beating someone who doesn't have the strength of a professional athlete into a bloody pulp in a nightclub. But there's also businessmen who get name suppression or light sentences for drunk driving or discharged because a conviction would mean they can't travel where as a person of a lower socioeconomic persuasion has a much lower chance of getting anything near a comparable amount of leniency. My point is more the rugby stereotype is there for some very good reasons and it's why the 'It's Not OK' stuff has a bunch of sporting tie-ins, but just putting the 'meathead' label doesn't do anything but put a label on it - at some point you have to start looking at why you're creating so many shitheads who buy into it in the first place.
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Oct 20, 2015 10:33
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Varkk posted:Yes, but it seems that people who are good at sport, or peripherally connected to it, especially rugby, seem to get preferential treatment if they ever see the inside of a courtroom. http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/super-rugby/65532499/tevita-li-discharged-without-conviction-for-drink-driving-offence posted:Super Rugby player Tevita Li has been discharged without conviction for driving with excess blood alcohol the morning after he had been drinking. http://www.3news.co.nz/sport/george-moala-avoids-conviction-for-auckland-assault-2015050615#axzz3p69ndgU0 posted:Blues rugby star George Moala has been discharged without conviction for assaulting a man in a boozy Auckland bar attack in 2012. http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11372289 posted:The victim, according to police, made disparaging remarks about McDowall's Taieri Rugby Football Club, which boasts former All Blacks Arran Pene and John Timu as old boys. Otago under-19 player McDowall was angered and punched the man in his mouth.
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Oct 20, 2015 10:40
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I, personally, have avoided conviction (much to the disappointment of the cop) for an offence because of the damage it would do to my career which was just starting at the time. Granted, it was a non-violent offence, I broke a bottle on the street across the road from about 10 cops. But it wouldn't have been justice for me to loose a job because of something dumb. If I had been convicted, I may have not gotten the job, but I would have gotten another eventually. As much as I hate double standards, and ruggers, for someone to loose a 10-20 year career (which would happen to an all black because they couldn't go overseas) for drink driving wouldn't be justice either. This line of reasoning leads me to an uncomfortable conclusion though. It leads to saying its justice for someone who works as a farm hand or freezing worker to get a conviction because it won't harm their career - because careers immune to convictions are often "poor people jobs" the effect is discriminatory. I dunno. But gently caress Tony Veitch.
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Oct 20, 2015 12:49
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Exclamation Marx posted:This morning Key said he had not yet been invited to appear on Oliver's show, despite the British comedian's apparent "fascination" with his utterings. Oliver would have a loving field day with him if he went for it. It'd be a slaughter. Oliver would probably just start with the ponytail thing and let Key fumble for an answer before asking about the TPP, and then just call him out every time he said "at the end of the day."
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Oct 20, 2015 12:50
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please let him respond
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klen dool posted:This line of reasoning leads me to an uncomfortable conclusion though. It leads to saying its justice for someone who works as a farm hand or freezing worker to get a conviction because it won't harm their career - because careers immune to convictions are often "poor people jobs" the effect is discriminatory. I dunno. It's almost as if criminal justice is an incredibly murky and grey area and not really a black and white issue resolvable through death by guillotine for everyone we don't like. If it weren't rugby it'd be something else, rugby just happens to be particularly popular here. In the US it's NFL/NBA, in europe it's soccer and so on, and that's not mentioning entertainers. Any high profile, high paying career that turns someone into a 'star' inevitably leads to perversions of justice so that the sweaty masses get to see their heroes on stage/screen/field without having pesky prison sentences get in the way. Fame and wealth, not sports, are the catalyst for the system breaking down for certain individuals. As usual it's just plain ol' gently caress the poors and has little to do with violent sports or athletic worship or any of that other poo poo people get so wound up about.
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Oct 20, 2015 19:21
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I dunno, I can't seem to find any examples of visual artists or authors in the same position?
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Oct 20, 2015 20:00
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Lol if you think visual artists and authors are famous stars like sports players and actors are.
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Oct 20, 2015 20:01
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I'm pretty sure constantly letting these high profile (or might-be-because-rugby) people off with no conviction is the reason it keeps happening. Seeing someone lose their high profile career over beating their partner might at least show these fuckheads that this poo poo will ruin your life as bad as you ruin the person you pummel. But then One News wouldn't get to have an interview with them after The Big Game so no can do.
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Oct 20, 2015 20:02
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I don't have any interest in rugby whatsoever (the marketing barrage is loving infuriating tbh) but the butthurt pent-up anti-sport rage in this thread is pretty incredible. You can't just will causation into existence just because there's correlation between something bad and something you don't like.
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Oct 20, 2015 20:12
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Slavvy posted:I don't have any interest in rugby whatsoever (the marketing barrage is loving infuriating tbh) but the butthurt pent-up anti-sport rage in this thread is pretty incredible. You can't just will causation into existence just because there's correlation between something bad and something you don't like. Yes there's certainly no link between high profile rugby players getting let off serious crimes due to them being high profile rugby players. 
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Oct 20, 2015 20:16
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If I get my own radio show am I allowed to cripple tony veitch
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Oct 20, 2015 20:18
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BARONS CYBER SKULL posted:Yes there's certainly no link between FTFY.
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Oct 20, 2015 20:19
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swampland posted:If I get my own radio show am I allowed to cripple tony veitch Yes but only if you date him and talk about how his spine is a game of two halves.
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Oct 20, 2015 20:22
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BARONS CYBER SKULL posted:Yes but only if you date him and talk about how his spine is a game of two halves. Oh good. Proposed Goon Project: Let's Get Famous Enough to Break Tony Veitch's Spine with Impunity
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Oct 20, 2015 20:24
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I dunno why goons are so worried about Veitchy. We're protected on stairs after all.
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Oct 20, 2015 20:41
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Infotainment! posted:I dunno, I can't seem to find any examples of visual artists or authors in the same position? People cut Barry Crump a bunch of slack for beating the poo poo out of his partner(s) when it first came out but I'm guessing it's also a big reason why you don't hear much about Barry Crump any more (that and being dead). Other than Margaret Mahy being convicted for drunk-driving, I'm drawing a blank too.
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Oct 20, 2015 21:17
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swampland posted:Oh good. Proposed Goon Project: Let's Get Famous Enough to Break Tony Veitch's Spine with Impunity In all seriousness someone should challenge him to a celebrity boxing match with the proceeds going to women's refuge. And then kick him down some stairs.
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Oct 20, 2015 21:58
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Butt Wizard posted:People cut Barry Crump a bunch of slack for beating the poo poo out of his partner(s) when it first came out but I'm guessing it's also a big reason why you don't hear much about Barry Crump any more (that and being dead). Other than Margaret Mahy being convicted for drunk-driving, I'm drawing a blank too. It's probably because intellectuals aren't considered public figures to the same extent that sports and entertainment personalities are in this country. That doesn't mean rugby players are somehow more prone to violence or get more slack, it just means that what makes people famous in NZ is the same as what makes people famous in every other country: dumb poo poo that doesn't matter.
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Oct 20, 2015 22:32
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Butt Wizard posted:People cut Barry Crump a bunch of slack for beating the poo poo out of his partner(s) when it first came out but I'm guessing it's also a big reason why you don't hear much about Barry Crump any more (that and being dead). Other than Margaret Mahy being convicted for drunk-driving, I'm drawing a blank too. eh i've said to people barry crump sums up new zealand perfectly, both the good and the bad on the one hand, he did some really cool poo poo and was a lot of things nz values - hardworking, independent, outdoorsy, etc on the other, here's a direct quote actually it's gonna be a series of quotes from crocodile country barry crump posted:I'm always having to pull her into gear over giving cheek like that. guy could spin a pretty good yarn and had clearly done a lot of living, but unfortunately he was also a wife beater
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Oct 20, 2015 22:51
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SurreptitiousMuffin posted:I dunno why goons are so worried about Veitchy. We're protected on stairs after all. I am emphatically not.
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Oct 20, 2015 23:05
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Veitch is mentally ill
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Oct 20, 2015 23:13
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I hope his mental illness is chronic depression.
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Oct 20, 2015 23:39
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the problem isnt that rugby players get let off domestic violence charges, the problem is that in general our justice system is poo poo at dealing with domestic violence. The rugby players just happen to be the ones in the news because "barry from down the road's" case isn't newsworthy
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Oct 20, 2015 23:59
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yes
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Oct 21, 2015 00:04
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there's probably still a decent chunk that thinks minor domestic violence is a bit like menstruation, as in no one likes it, but it's life and just should be tolerated dont make a fuss
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Oct 21, 2015 00:05
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So like School shootings in the States? I dunno if we wanna let things slide that far.
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Oct 21, 2015 00:07
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WarpedNaba posted:So like School shootings in the States? I dunno if we wanna let things slide that far. no because that implies its a new problem and its not
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Oct 21, 2015 00:18
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Lol, just lol if you think rugby players are actually new zealand's most famous celebrities. Somehow Karl Urban, Peter Jackson, Lucy Lawless et al manage not to assault people on the reg.
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Oct 21, 2015 00:19
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echinopsis posted:there's probably still a decent chunk that thinks minor domestic violence is a bit like menstruation, as in no one likes it, but it's life and just should be tolerated dont make a fuss There's no probably about it. This is more or less the exact reason why domestic violence can exist. It is a massive problem.
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Oct 21, 2015 00:22
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echinopsis posted:there's probably still a decent chunk that thinks minor domestic violence is a bit like menstruation, as in no one likes it, but it's life and just should be tolerated dont make a fuss Going back to Barry Crump. He comes from a time when a man hitting his wife if she stepped out of line was considered the good and proper thing to do. Just like hitting kids who misbehaved. Fortunately we have moved on from then but there are still a lot who cling to that mindset and are violently resistant to change.
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Oct 21, 2015 00:25
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 Butt Wizard posted:People cut Barry Crump a bunch of slack for beating the poo poo out of his partner(s) when it first came out but I'm guessing it's also a big reason why you don't hear much about Barry Crump any more (that and being dead). Other than Margaret Mahy being convicted for drunk-driving, I'm drawing a blank too. There was also Graham Brazier, but maybe musicians are closer to sportspeople in terms of apologist fans
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Oct 21, 2015 00:41
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Varkk posted:Just like hitting kids who misbehaved. This brings in an interesting angle, to an extent. I was smacked as a child, and I don't really want to defend it as such but there is a chasm of difference between being smacked and being beaten. A large grey difficult to define chasm. I bet a lot of people see domestic violence the same way. Once were warriors style beatdowns are a definite no no but a slap? Not saying it's ok but it's very different and there is a lot of undiscussed psychological abuse going on which is significantly worse but doesn't get the same attention Of course you can't have a reasonable discussion down those lines because most people like their poo poo black and white...
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Oct 21, 2015 01:02
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echinopsis posted:This brings in an interesting angle, to an extent. I was smacked as a child, and I don't really want to defend it as such but there is a chasm of difference between being smacked and being beaten. A large grey difficult to define chasm. I bet a lot of people see domestic violence the same way. Once were warriors style beatdowns are a definite no no but a slap? Not saying it's ok but it's very different and there is a lot of undiscussed psychological abuse going on which is significantly worse but doesn't get the same attention The way crump describes it is like disciplining a dog basically - give it a smack to keep it in line. I don't think he beat the poo poo out of her - or he doesn't want it to be seen that way - but I really don't think that was too far out of the ordinary back then. I do remember my stepmother telling me that her mother had said to count herself lucky if she finds a man who doesn't hit her.
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Oct 21, 2015 01:11
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Infotainment! posted:Lol, just lol if you think rugby players are actually new zealand's most famous celebrities. Somehow Karl Urban, Peter Jackson, Lucy Lawless et al manage not to assault people on the reg. You haven't seen the Hobbit films I take it?
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Oct 21, 2015 01:56
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They made me want to assault Peter Jackson, but I'unno if that's on the same level.
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Oct 21, 2015 02:06
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