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CommieGIR posted:No, they do vary slightly from manufacturer to manufacturer. The kit I got came with 6-8 different adapters of varying size and pitch.
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Sep 30, 2015 22:54
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scuz posted:Bitchin. Just so I can run this by someone else, this is my shopping list: Depending on the amount of materiel you can flush out, you may be able to re-use the condenser and evaporators. I mean, if you don't feel like risking it, that's just fine, and you'll be better off getting new ones, but you should be safe just flushing them both ways. \/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/ What he says. CommieGIR fucked around with this message at 23:33 on Sep 30, 2015 |
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Sep 30, 2015 23:04
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Basically if they are parallel flow you can't flush them properly. If not, go for it.
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Sep 30, 2015 23:32
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Motronic posted:Basically if they are parallel flow you can't flush them properly. If not, go for it. This is what he means, btw 
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Sep 30, 2015 23:34
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You guys are the best, thanks!
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Sep 30, 2015 23:55
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Stupid question, but I'm pretty sure the schrader valves on my 1998 Explorer (4.0 SOHC) are leaking. I don't see how they come out. Are they replaceable themselves (with a standard dryer/vacuum/recharge/etc) or do I have to buy the whole fittings?
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Sep 30, 2015 23:58
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Geirskogul posted:Stupid question, but I'm pretty sure the schrader valves on my 1998 Explorer (4.0 SOHC) are leaking. I don't see how they come out. Are they replaceable themselves (with a standard dryer/vacuum/recharge/etc) or do I have to buy the whole fittings? Comes out just like the schrader valve on a tire, some fill ports have a little rubber cover that goes over it, but you should be able to remove it or reach through it. I suspect you are talking about the little black rubber check ball, you should be able to remove/get around it. Goto any local auto parts store and ask for a schrader valve tool and they should also have AC schrader valves available.
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Oct 1, 2015 00:20
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scuz posted:Bitchin. Just so I can run this by someone else, this is my shopping list: This is what I replaced on mine to get rid of the black death. I pulled my parts from a junkyard, and said 'complete AC system' so I took the hoses as well. Hoses should be flushable though. My evaporator has a little pressure valve attached that communicates with the expansion valve, no way to flush that without a pressurised system, I guess, so the evaporator got changed as well. Also it has many tubes running in parallel so meh.
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Oct 1, 2015 13:41
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If you try to flush hoses, flush them both directions in case something is worked into a hose barb somewhere along the line. Flex the hoses a bit while doing this.Geirskogul posted:Stupid question, but I'm pretty sure the schrader valves on my 1998 Explorer (4.0 SOHC) are leaking. I don't see how they come out. Are they replaceable themselves (with a standard dryer/vacuum/recharge/etc) or do I have to buy the whole fittings? Yes. Some of them, specifically one of the ones on an Explorer (I just did this on my dad's '01 5.0L Explorer) are too large to use a normal tire valve stem tool on, but that was easily remedied by ghetto hacking a tool using a piece of properly sized steel round rod stock and an angle grinder. Make sure to deburr and clean thoroughly before using such a tool.
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Oct 1, 2015 22:24
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Okay, now I'm confused. 2003 Jeep Grand Cherokee, V8. A/C wokred great earlier this week. When I fired it up this morning, no A/C at all. On the drive back home at the end of the day, it worked again for about four miles. Rented a gauge set from Autozone, static pressures are in the 115-120 range both high and low. Can't get the compressor to kick on. Couldn't find my can of R134a but it shouldn't matter, the low pressure switch only needs about 30-40 to engage so that shouldn't be the issue. Coil tests good (about 4.8-5 ohms) and there's at least 13V at the connector when I disconnect it and check it engine running. Compressor isn't seized, I can spin it by hand. I'm thinking next step is taking the clutch off and see what lies beneath?
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Oct 9, 2015 07:43
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A) Is the compressor clutch coil ground OK? B) If that's good, try tapping the clutch face with a screwdriver or something and see if it engages then; it's possible the air gap is too high due to clutch wear.
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Oct 9, 2015 13:32
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It's a two-wire coil, so it doesn't depend on a ground from the compressor itself to work - the 12V I got at the terminals was from one pin to the other. Might give that percussive maintenance a shot.
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Oct 9, 2015 14:32
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When you say spin the compressor by hand, are you spinning the compressor shaft itself, or the pulley, and with the clutch engaged or disengaged? First time I checked one I forgot that spinning the pulley only spins the compressor if the clutch is engaged, and was very confused  How's the voltage at the clutch with it plugged in? If the clutch driver is mostly burned out, it could still have enough left in it to drive your 10 megohm impedance DMM to 13V, but nowhere near enough to make the low impedance clutch winding actually activate.
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Oct 9, 2015 16:05
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If you apply 12v (and ground) directly to the coil, does it stick the pulley to the input shaft of the compressor? If so, clutch is good. If not, clutch is bad. These are often shimmed to leave a suitable gap when the coil is not energised, and yours may need adjusting due to age.
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Oct 9, 2015 18:47
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Yeah, I was spinning the center of it (engine was off, belt was stationary). It was also not noticeably warm, which I would've expected if the compressor had suddenly seized with the clutch trying to engage. Valid point on the voltage testing, but I don't see any way to probe it without hacking up the wiring more than I'm comfortable with at the moment. It ultimately just uses the PCM signal to switch a relay. I'll throw a jumper on that tonight and rule the relay out just to be sure.  SPP: I haven't tried that yet, I couldn't find any alligator clips in my garage and the connector on the drat thing is shrouded so deep I don't want to just try the "stick the pokey bit in until something happens" method. I should probably stop by Fry's or something tonight and build/buy some proper leads for this purpose.
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Oct 9, 2015 18:56
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Try swapping the AC compressor clutch relay with the starter motor relay, assuming they are the same base. If you can't start the car anymore, you know why!
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Oct 9, 2015 18:57
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You could also pull the relay and jump it using the ammeter, to check current flow through the clutch itself. Looks like it's constant ground, I was thinking a bad pressure switch but it looks like that's a separate input rather than inline with the clutch circuit. E: I knew it was probably a two-wire, I was meaning check that ground wire. But 12V across is fine yeah.
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Oct 9, 2015 19:00
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IOwnCalculus posted:Yeah, I was spinning the center of it (engine was off, belt was stationary). It was also not noticeably warm, which I would've expected if the compressor had suddenly seized with the clutch trying to engage. My compressor siezed while running and yes, the clutch got very warm (ended up stripping the friction material rather than slipping on the belt!). Spinning the centre (input shaft) should feel pretty smooth, maybe a bit lumpy depending on design. The pulley should, of course, spin freely with no belt installed. I often used straightened paperclips pushed into the back of plugs, past the rubber seals for when I want to put power or probes in somewhere. If the whole thing is buried or if the back end is sealed then you're out of luck on that. I'm betting that the clutch is on the male end of the plug so you can't just unplug it and stick wires into it. If you know where the clutch relay is, then I'd just hit pin 87 (on your diagram) with 12v and see if the clutch clicks in and out.
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Oct 9, 2015 19:03
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Enourmo posted:You could also pull the relay and jump it using the ammeter, to check current flow through the clutch itself. Looks like it's constant ground, I was thinking a bad pressure switch but it looks like that's a separate input rather than inline with the clutch circuit. I like this idea a lot. And yeah, neither the high or low pressure switches are inline with the clutch - they're all just inputs to the computer, and the computer grounds the relay whenever it wants the compressor on. ShittyPostmakerPro posted:My compressor siezed while running and yes, the clutch got very warm (ended up stripping the friction material rather than slipping on the belt!). Spinning the centre (input shaft) should feel pretty smooth, maybe a bit lumpy depending on design. The pulley should, of course, spin freely with no belt installed. I once had to work on a Saturn SL1 where the compressor (and clutch) seized. You couldn't start the engine with the belt still routed around it. "Smooth but a bit lumpy" is exactly how it felt. Given the lack of noises I'm confident that the compressor guts are still fine. The only lovely thing is if I do end up needing a new clutch, they cost nearly as much as the whole loving compressor.
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Oct 9, 2015 20:20
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Alright so a friend wants me to help him recharge a 93 MIata. He balked at the cost of R12, so he's talking about doing an r134a conversion, which obviously is fairly straightforward but requires flushing all the mineral oil out, etc. I'm thinking about suggesting an r152 conversion, but I wanna make sure the math works out. Obviously it'll cool better and that car only takes 15.4oz of 152 (28oz if R12 if you wanna check my math) so it's probably a buttload cheaper even than r134a, but if the right oil isn't easily available that might offset things somewhat (he's trying to flip the car so it could come up with potential buyers.) Should he just stick with the 134a for ease of maintenance? Is mineral oil compatible with r152, and if not what type do we need? E: he might keep the car as a beater/autox toy. Fender Anarchist fucked around with this message at 02:31 on Oct 10, 2015 |
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Oct 10, 2015 02:27
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I think the general consensus is that ester oil is compatible with any remaining mineral oil and is compatible with all of the popular refrigerants. I would just pour out the old oil from the compressor, and replace with the same amount of ester oil, then replace the drier and add the required amount of ester oil for a drier replacement (on my toyota, it's 20ml, for example). Edit: It's not as sensitive to moisture as PAG oil is, either. And then charge with R152, yes. Pomp and Circumcized fucked around with this message at 02:36 on Oct 10, 2015 |
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Oct 10, 2015 02:32
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Enourmo posted:You could also pull the relay and jump it using the ammeter, to check current flow through the clutch itself. Yep, even though it shows low resistance to an ohmmeter (now about 7Ω instead of 4Ω), as soon as I set up a multimeter as a jumper it only passes 0.01A. I'm going to call the coil toast. How is it that I've had two separate vehicles burn coils in two years?  Just to piss me off more, it also puked a bit of coolant (the upper hose is already failing again) and my HF snap ring pliers are too small to get the snap ring off of the compressor. At least Autozone has the coil in stock and it's only $34 instead of $120+ for the whole clutch from Amazon or Rockauto.
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Oct 10, 2015 03:43
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ShittyPostmakerPro posted:I think the general consensus is that ester oil is compatible with any remaining mineral oil and is compatible with all of the popular refrigerants. I would just pour out the old oil from the compressor, and replace with the same amount of ester oil, then replace the drier and add the required amount of ester oil for a drier replacement (on my toyota, it's 20ml, for example). Edit: It's not as sensitive to moisture as PAG oil is, either. That and R152 is widely available in PC Duster cans with ease. Just make sure you vacuum down the system prior to charging, and get the Esther oil put in first. I've had zero issues with my R152 in both my Jetta and my Audi, and its cold as hell in both.
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Oct 10, 2015 03:46
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Yeah I know about the duster thing, and i guess parts stores carry ester oil? I was more thinking if he flips the car it might drive potential buyers away to know it's a nonstandard refrigerant that few if any shops could service. He's gonna look up the cost of a retrofit kit and r134a vs just doing a vac/fill of R12 (I think he said it has some pressure so we shouldn't need a new drier for that); i've got a 14oz can of R12 laying around, so if the prices are close i might knock a few bucks off fair cost as a buddy discount, just to make the work easier. If a retrofit is still significantly cheaper i'll have another go at convincing him, seeing as it's like $25 for 24oz of r134a vs 152 which is 20oz for $10 shipped (if only i could find 8 or 16oz cans), all else being equal it's deffo the better option.
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Oct 10, 2015 04:01
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Whoever wrote the Chrysler service manual for the WJ can eat an AIDS infested dick. There is no loving way a set of snap ring pliers big enough to get the job done is getting in a 4.7L compressor unless you either remove the compressor or the radiator / fan. Thankfully it isn't too bad to remove the compressor and there is juuuuust enough room to tilt it up so you can get a straight-enough shot. I also drat near crapped myself. I tested the clutch manually a dozen times before I popped the relay back in, and it clicked every time. After the relay went in, nothing. Just needed to reseat it since after doing so, it works great. Also, while I'm glad it was only $35 after tax for the new coil, I wish they'd put the right goddamn connector on it. I did get some good use out of my new stripper.
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Oct 10, 2015 08:40
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Enourmo posted:Yeah I know about the duster thing, and i guess parts stores carry ester oil? I was more thinking if he flips the car it might drive potential buyers away to know it's a nonstandard refrigerant that few if any shops could service. It will almost certainly be cheaper in the long run to 'convert', especially when you ask 'where has the old R12 gone?'. If he has a slow leak, then putting expensive, harmful R12 into the car isn't good for anyone. R152 and R134a are similar enough that any shop could swap between them, and I believe you may even be able to run a mix. FYI, R152 is difluoroethylene and R134a is tetrafluoroethylene. Make sure that if you buy air duster, that the warning labels says 'contains difluoroethylene'. I know that the 'Dust Off' brand of duster contains it. The 'retrofit kit' will be him buying some screw-on R143a fittings, a bottle of ester oil, and a side can tap + manifold gauges. You don't need to open the system (which would necessitate drier replacement), you can just add ester oil on top of the mineral oil.
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Oct 10, 2015 08:46
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I hear the fancy machines can test the refrigerant, and will flip out if it's not what is accepted. Then cue the shop refusing to work on it. I only use it in vehicles I mean to keep for a while. On the wagon I recharged it to r134a when I sold it.
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Oct 10, 2015 10:31
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You can get R134 in PC Duster cans too.
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Oct 10, 2015 19:48
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CommieGIR posted:You can get R134 in PC Duster cans too. I haven't seen that for years (in the US). I have seen it in freeze spray cans though (same thing but with an internal straw at and at a much higher price).
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Oct 10, 2015 20:15
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Motronic posted:I haven't seen that for years (in the US). I've found both on my runs, its random which one is which, but I found both R152 and R134 at Walmart
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Oct 10, 2015 20:26
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Motronic posted:I haven't seen that for years (in the US). I posted a pic of r134a duster that I can get en masse from a local pc parts chain earlier in this thread; it was cheaper than r134a sold as a refrigerant, available in decent quantities, and I live in south Texas.
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Oct 10, 2015 20:30
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Odd one happened today. Started my car in the parking lot at work - a/c was left on when parked, and not touched when I started the car. I was pulling up Google Maps on my phone to look up where I was going when I realized (a) I could smell refrigerant pretty strongly and (b) it was blowing hot air from the vents and idling a bit (~300 RPM) higher than it should have been. Turning the a/c off and on got the compressor to kick in, knocked the idle down to where it should be, and got ice cold air (and no smell of refrigerant). But what the hell? Obviously there's a pretty significant leak, one that was enough to trip either the low or high pressure switch (I'll have to throw gauges on it to be sure, but last time I had them on I got some wonky numbers). It was set to fresh air, so I have no idea if the refrigerant smell was coming from inside or outside of the car. The system does have dye in it, so I'll pick up a UV light when I can afford to. Any ideas what happened there? Being DBW, the high idle tells me the PCM probably thought the compressor was engaged (warm engine, car had been parked about 30 min, ~85 outside). 06 Saturn Ion, for those not familiar with my turdmobile.
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Oct 11, 2015 02:39
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Just wanted to say thanks for this thread - I recently bought a 2001 MX5 with non-functional aircon. It would sometimes kick in the compressor, sometimes not. No cold air at all. Checked static pressure - 25psi. Given the age of the car, I figured it had just leaked out through the hoses, and the low pressure cut out would trip depending on ambient temperature. A friend gave me a crappy Halfords low-side only gauge, so I bought a £30 can of R134a to fit onto it. Added a bit of refrigerant when the system was supposed to be running but wasn't, and suddenly the compressor kicked in. It went into short cycling, so I kept adding refrigerant until the low side pressure looked good. It took most of a full can (510g), and given that my car is supposed to have 450g in the system, that seems about right. I now get 6 degree C air out of the vents at around 25C ambient temps, so I'm happy with that. Over here in the UK, it's more about the dry air rather than cooling, and it certainly gets rid of the window fog on those damp mornings 
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Oct 11, 2015 20:07
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Got the system vacuuming right now after a compressor replacement. The instructions with the new compressor said to dump the oil from the old compressor, measure it, dump the oil from the new compressor, and then put the amount taken from the old compressor back in. The only thing weirding me out is I only got maybe 1/8 of a cup out of the old compressor, and at least 2-3x that out of the new one (a Denso new-build compressor). The old compressor itself was fine, I'm just replacing it because the clutch alone costs nearly as much. Do I need to dump some oil back into the system when I go to fill it, or is there really supposed to be that little oil in the compressor?
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Oct 18, 2015 03:33
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IOwnCalculus posted:Got the system vacuuming right now after a compressor replacement. The instructions with the new compressor said to dump the oil from the old compressor, measure it, dump the oil from the new compressor, and then put the amount taken from the old compressor back in. The only thing weirding me out is I only got maybe 1/8 of a cup out of the old compressor, and at least 2-3x that out of the new one (a Denso new-build compressor). The old compressor itself was fine, I'm just replacing it because the clutch alone costs nearly as much. I'd look up manufacturer specs and go by theirs, or stick to what came in the compressor. Some of that will leak out into the system over time and then get caught by the dehydrator.
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Oct 18, 2015 03:42
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I just googled some more and yeah, it looks like the oil they fill it with is assuming a fully dry system. I guess I'm good with the relatively small amount that went back in.
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Oct 18, 2015 04:12
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Charged it, no unusual noises so I think I'm good. I did it by weight (27 oz, about the worst number for 12oz cans). It's humid as hell and my low side pressures / vent temps didn't get to where they should be, so I'm thinking I froze the evaporator over while charging. I'll give it a check in the morning.
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Oct 18, 2015 07:34
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You may need to add a little extra oil to cover the amount to that was inside the old drier when you replaced it. The manufacturer usually specifies this amount. It may be more than you think, as the oil soaks into the dessicant bag. As you said, the difference in oil quantity between the old and new compressor is due to the old compressor oil being distributed around the system.
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Oct 18, 2015 09:15
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Only vaguely related to all of that - how the hell is it that my CR-V, which takes a full charge at only about 14oz of R134a, consistently kicks the poo poo out of my WJ in terms of A/C performance? The CR-V's A/C is one of the best I've ever seen here in an AZ summer.
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Oct 20, 2015 23:44
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IOwnCalculus posted:Only vaguely related to all of that - how the hell is it that my CR-V, which takes a full charge at only about 14oz of R134a, consistently kicks the poo poo out of my WJ in terms of A/C performance? The CR-V's A/C is one of the best I've ever seen here in an AZ summer. Probably more efficient evaporator/condenser design.
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Oct 20, 2015 23:57
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