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Crackbone posted:Stonemaier dude bends over backwards to accommodate people. He said they weren't going to do wooden tokens in the collector's edition, now he's offering them if enough people say they want them. Total class act, no matter what you think about the quality of the games. signalnoise posted:That dude made a 10 minute video for me just for a panel I was going to do on making games. Just for some bullshit panel no one gave a poo poo about. Just because I asked him for his input. Jamey Stegmaier owns Yeah, this is why I'm gonna back the Scythe KS instead of just waiting for retail, everything I've heard about this guy and his games suggests that he's someone worth supporting.
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Oct 20, 2015 00:15
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I am incredibly bewildered that Scythe received so much hate. Where are these discussions/flame wars/whatever? The KS itself has over 6,000 comments so I can't really flip through it. Does someone have a link to any grognards.txt worthy posts?
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Oct 20, 2015 01:49
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Kai Tave posted:Yeah, this is why I'm gonna back the Scythe KS instead of just waiting for retail, everything I've heard about this guy and his games suggests that he's someone worth supporting. Buying at retail makes it more likely a store would order yet another copy to replace the one you bought. He already has all he needs to make this a go. But yes, class act, et cetera.
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Oct 20, 2015 01:56
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Got my copy of One Night Ultimate Vampire today. Really looking forward to trying it out.
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Oct 20, 2015 02:43
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homullus posted:Buying at retail makes it more likely a store would order yet another copy to replace the one you bought. He already has all he needs to make this a go. But he also gets the money direct instead of distribution and retail taking a cut. KS is a better business model for game companies except the really big ones that can get lines of credit cheaper than the cut that KS takes. Crackbone fucked around with this message at 03:43 on Oct 20, 2015 |
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Oct 20, 2015 03:18
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So how good is Cthulhu Wars?
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Oct 20, 2015 05:37
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Mugaaz posted:So how good is Cthulhu Wars? Very good. Not quite Kemet good, maybe, but only because of the random element in combat. With the possible exception of Black Goat being disadvantaged if you go above four players the factions are very well balanced, and of course the production values are insanely high. I took my copy to the local miniature gaming club and they were wowed by it.
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Oct 20, 2015 08:17
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Mugaaz posted:So how good is Cthulhu Wars? the over sized miniatures actually detract from the experience since the spaces get too crowded three quarters of the way through the game.
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Oct 20, 2015 09:08
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Mugaaz posted:So how good is Cthulhu Wars? It's a surprisingly light area control game with a map that is about half the size it needs to be given the size of the miniatures. Lots of fun but really expensive and really you'll want an expansion or two to give some game to game variability
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Oct 20, 2015 10:47
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Mugaaz posted:So how good is Cthulhu Wars? For the price of the base game you could get 3-5 other really good games, not even considering how much the expansions add to the cost. It's not that good. Crackbone fucked around with this message at 12:45 on Oct 20, 2015 |
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Oct 20, 2015 11:48
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I hope whatever FedEx programme the Masks dudes are using to ship internationally for free catches on, because not having to pay $25-40 in shipping means this is the first RPG KS where a) I've pledged for a physical book and b) I'm considering upping my pledge to $90 to get the core book in hardback and the supplements in print.
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Oct 20, 2015 14:33
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Crackbone posted:For the price of the base game you could get 3-5 other really good games, not even considering how much the expansions add to the cost. It's not that good. This is ultimately the main problem with it. If it were a $40-50 game along the lines of, say, Chaos in the Old World, it would be an easy recommend. Even a "premium" to a ~$100 game, like the Scythe Collector's Edition, may have even been justifiable. But as much as I like the game, it is a hard recommend at the hundreds of dollars it will cost you. If you can use the minis in other ways, it might be worth it, though.
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Oct 20, 2015 14:43
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Crackbone posted:But he also gets the money direct instead of distribution and retail taking a cut. KS is a better business model for game companies except the really big ones that can get lines of credit cheaper than the cut that KS takes. Instead of distribution and retail taking a cut, KS and Amazon take a cut.
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Oct 20, 2015 14:44
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homullus posted:Instead of distribution and retail taking a cut, KS and Amazon take a cut. Only 10% total though
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Oct 20, 2015 14:45
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A Scythe review (after a fashion). I'm not sure the insightful opinions of Mr. Smith really resonate with me except the "I have to wait to hear opinions from people I trust before I can get truly excited about something, so all I have to go by are Stonemaier’s previous games" part which isn't that big of a deal as Quentin has an ever growing list of game crimes where he professes to love a game that is by all other accounts absolute dross. I would like some more reviews from people who speak critically about games, not just the regular roster of people who are boosters for almost every game they get sent for free in the mail. http://www.shutupandsitdown.com/blog/post/games-news-191015/
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Oct 20, 2015 15:29
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Crackbone posted:For the price of the base game you could get 3-5 other really good games, not even considering how much the expansions add to the cost. It's not that good. That's precisely why I sold my copy. The miniatures are awesome, from a collecting/painting standpoint, but they are way the hell too big for that board. Sensibly sized markers would have made the game more playable and opened a full market of people who don't want to spend $200 on a board game. Indolent Bastard posted:I would like some more reviews from people who speak critically about games, not just the regular roster of people who are boosters for almost every game they get sent for free in the mail. berzerkmonkey fucked around with this message at 16:31 on Oct 20, 2015 |
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Oct 20, 2015 16:25
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Indolent Bastard posted:A Scythe review (after a fashion). I'm not sure the insightful opinions of Mr. Smith really resonate with me except the "I have to wait to hear opinions from people I trust before I can get truly excited about something, so all I have to go by are Stonemaier’s previous games" part which isn't that big of a deal as Quentin has an ever growing list of game crimes where he professes to love a game that is by all other accounts absolute dross. I'd agree with his comments about the utilitarian icons clashing with the lovely art. I also worry a little that Stegmaier's rules writing doesn't quite match the tone of the art - a lot of the encounter card options seem a bit, I don't know, wacky compared to the relatively sombre tone of the artwork. Probably not going to be a big deal, though, and having read through the rules I'm really exited about giving the game a play.
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Oct 20, 2015 16:40
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Nightfall/Nocturne hit another issue; it looks like ASH LAW dropped himself from the project without telling anyone.quote:What started out as something which was focused upon 13th Age has been through a sea of stormy waters for us all. Nocturne has been a labour of love and a pain in the side in equal measure -- and whilst I'm done on the writing side of the project there's still a ton of work left to do if we're working on 2 versions at the same time.
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Oct 20, 2015 18:34
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quote:I also worry a little that Stegmaier's rules writing doesn't quite match the tone of the art - a lot of the encounter card options seem a bit, I don't know, wacky compared to the relatively sombre tone of the artwork Yeah.. I actually just cancelled my pledge. The art is amazing (before this game existed, I had cycled through some of these pictures as wallpaper because they're just great), but the graphic design is lackluster and the writing is, honestly, embarrassingly bad ("Practice your yodeling (+2 Popularity)") in context. It doesn't look like it's going to have issues funding, so I'm sure I can retail it later if it turns out to be great.
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Oct 20, 2015 18:50
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I'm tempted to cancel my pledge as well. The more I think about the game, the more I kinda have doubts about it. It's really a shame that the art is really as evocative as it is, since the game mechanics themselves don't excite me in any way, and I feel that I'd just be backing it to play with the art. Like the flavor of the encounter cards gravitates somewhere between functional and stupid (the yodeling, specifically) without really being evocative or help build a narrative, but mechanically they just seem like random bonuses, which seems kinda counter to the fact that it's a Euro. Like that's fine in a game like Eldritch Horror because it's a game all about random elements and I'm not really expecting to have much in the way of long term strategy besides "roll more dice", but here? Eh. I also don't like the combat resolution and I'm generally not a fan of having combat be a mechanic in a game that doesn't make it a primary mechanic. In his latest update, he says that combat is more of a deterrent mechanism, which makes it feel like a secondary mechanic (but not an afterthought, per se). While Kemet's combat system isn't the most robust in the world, it sure as hell matters there. The entire game practically revolves around players fighting each other and has many design elements to support that, from the various powers (most of the powers, actually) to having VP to support that. I haven't played the game obviously, but having combat just be mostly about having a big pile of ARMY numbers, eh. I hated the mechanic in Tiny Epic Kingdoms (among other problems with the game), but it's the sort of mechanic that actually ENCOURAGES people to gang up on you, since to have any effect at all, it'd require multiple people coming together to stop you, which makes for a really bad time. I hated that part about The Manhattan Project, as well, which had a similar mechanic. It's just a lovely mechanic in general and I've never seen it implemented in a way that didn't end up in a dogpile at some point. This is a pretty negative post, but I really wanted to be excited about this since the original tagline of "Kemet meets Agricola" was really intriguing, but I see elements of neither here. But man, that art.
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Oct 20, 2015 19:22
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I'm in the same boat. I think I was getting caught up in the Wargame looking Boardgame based on that art. It may end up being great, but I can wait and see and grab it later if it's a break out hit. Plus the usual, "I have a dozen plus games I haven't played, why am I adding another one to the pile?"
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Oct 20, 2015 19:54
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Cthulhu Wars just sent another update on some add-ons, among them is a hardcover rulebook for $20 and punch board faction cards for $10. The rulebook is funny to me and is just so unnecessarily extravagant, but the punch boards kinda annoy me since the paper they actually used for the game was pretty thin, which was a really strange thing to neglect (aka the thing you're interacting with all the time) in this premium sort of package.
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Oct 20, 2015 21:49
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homullus posted:Instead of distribution and retail taking a cut, KS and Amazon take a cut. I don't believe Amazon is involved anymore now that Kickstarter dropped Amazon Payments.
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Oct 21, 2015 01:33
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malkav11 posted:I don't believe Amazon is involved anymore now that Kickstarter dropped Amazon Payments. Ok. Couldn't remember. Kickstarter does still take 5% and its payment processors take 3-5%.
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Oct 21, 2015 01:55
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homullus posted:Instead of distribution and retail taking a cut, KS and Amazon take a cut. You don't know poo poo about business thanks.
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Oct 21, 2015 02:01
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Crackbone posted:You don't know poo poo about business thanks. Hey, no problem, any time. I can totally see, thanks to your business acumen and lucid explanation, how selling a low-margin item at even closer to cost via KS is always strictly better than having your product on store shelves where people who don't use KS can see it.
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Oct 21, 2015 02:07
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edit nevermind this isn't the business thread
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Oct 21, 2015 03:04
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signalnoise posted:edit nevermind this isn't the business thread There's a business thread?
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Oct 21, 2015 03:08
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Nude Bog Lurker posted:I'm in for all the PDFs on Delta Green because I live in New Zealand and would have to sell myself to Nyarlathotep to pay shipping. How do I actually even do this anymore? Like many people I don't have money coming out of my arse and had to wait for some cash, and now it seems like all the 'All PDFs' tiers are gone, even though we're talking digital products and that doesn't even make any sense. Do I have to back at 'Rising Threats' and then use add-ons for The Fall of Delta Green and to upgrade to the Case Officer's Handbook? I'm tempted to just throw up my hands and back at the basic level and just get that stuff instead, but if there's an easy way to just get everything in PDF that's not extortionate I'd do it. Although if it's barely less expensive than the Agent's Hardback + PDFs I'd probably do that instead I guess. Or maybe not, because then I wouldn't have the Case Officer's Handbook unless I added more money, and I'd still have to add The Fall into it as well. I'm confusing myself even more now  I'm a big fan of the Cthulhu Wars approach of just one main tier at $150 to get all the stuff. This piecemeal stuff makes me feel like I'm always missing something, or conversely getting some poo poo I don't want along with the poo poo I do because the tiers are weird, or something, and I've got to check charts and read FAQs and check international shipping costs and uggghhh.
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Oct 21, 2015 03:28
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So, I thought it's been too long since I've been pilloried so why not drop my poor opinions here. We'll get the disclaimer out of the way right off the bat: I play tested Scythe, I'm a backer, and I converse lightly with the designer on occasion. You'll have a hard time finding a better human being than Jamey but that really isn't reason alone to back a game, much less one of this cost. I have not written any review of Scythe because frankly I've been very confused about what it is. (I get over that, but you're going to have to put up with the whole bloody post to get it out of me) That and I'm not a very good writer. From the start/announcement of the game I winced. Agicola. Kemmet. You're going to read this phrase a lot in the next several minutes: I like Jamey quite a bit. He's earnest and proud of his accomplishments. But calling out those two in particular reminded me of this exchange: quote:Vizzini: I can't compete with you physically, and you're no match for my brains. I really, REALLY enjoy Agricola. I've never played Kemmet. I have read reviews of both and understand the great following of each. Now, let's not put words in his mouth. He wasn't challenging those games or making any suggestions about greatness. But he invoked two of the most well regarded games out there to describe what he was after. Bar set. Location: Top of Everest. I found the description to be ambitious at the least, but never questioned Jamey's intent. I figured time would tell but had a suspicion that at the very least Icarus went home with more sun than expected. And then came the discussion of what the intent of the design was/how was this going to be marketed. When I heard 4X my immediate thought was "This is going to piss off an entire breadth of gamers." Nobody stumbles into a 4X game. These are a very specific crowd with very specific expectations and really no qualms about tearing things apart that don't match up to the Kings. (TI3, Eclipse, CIV, etc. All of which I have never played) By this point, we were in beta testing and I really struggled with calling this a 4X game because there is no eXterminate. 4X people are not going to like an interloper showing up with 2.5 Xs. For those of you keeping track at home, we've now potentially irritated fans of beloved Euros and 4Xers. Apparently there weren't any live bears around to poke with bee hives. And the art. C'mon. Where ya goin'? These images are incredibly evocative and will draw in even the most stalwart gamers. The art set a bar as high if not higher than the references to Agricola. This game has a TON to live up to. Games and I have an arrangement in that we'll occasionally tax each other but on the whole we aren't expecting either to stumble across the solution to cold fusion. I have yet to find a game Stonemaier has produced that I haven't enjoyed. Mind you, I said enjoyed. Some of them I REALLY like. Euphoria because, well, dice. As far as dice games go, it's an enjoyable one. Viticulture/Tuscany because, look, if it's good enough for the designer of Agricola then I shouldn't need to say a whole lot more. Worker placement, great theme. Slightly un-nerving backer likenesses. Between Two Cites wasn't exactly a Stonemaier design, but they did publish it and it's a great pick up for 7 people. So, what was it about all of these games that I was finding in Scythe again but couldn't put a finger on? Say what you will about Stonemaier's products, but it hit me like lightning: They're approachable. Now, before you flush the toilet and polish your "I'ma ream this guy a new one for being such a bozo"-stick; hear me out. This hobby has seen a rapid expansion in the last several years. People are looking for more out of their gaming experiences than Monopoly will ever provide them again. Stonemaier has consistently produced games that I feel are gateways to genres that may otherwise go unexplored by new players. Agricola, for all it's greatness, is not a game you can walk up to and figure out without either prior experience or somebody WITH that experience with you. Yes, yes, there are exceptions, but on the whole it's that refined and great such that it needs to be worked up to. Viticulture has a very family friendly/approachable theme and presents worker placement mechanics in a manner that doesn't intimidate. You aren't completely hosed if you don't know the strategy out the gate because you won't get beaten down by the game for a bad decision. That's a HUGE win when you're trying to bring non-gamer friends into the hobby. They don't run away screaming about obscure complexity and aren't talking to their friends the next morning about the creepy space monster make-believe they were forced to sit through at a dinner party. But it doesn't stop there. Not only is the game really approachable by noobs, there is subtle depth there that lets those players evolve into more advanced thought and play. Add in Tuscany, and you've now made an entry level Euro a very intricate and developed piece Are there other games that do this? Sure. But few do it as well. (I said few, not NONE) Uwe Rosenberg liked it enough to contact Stonemaier and work with them on a special edition. That's not an every day thing to have happen to your 'average' game. Where does this take me on Scythe then? My family and fellow play testers REALLY enjoyed this game. Again, it's extremely approachable and yet there is enough depth there that your play can evolve to a better level. If you're literally expecting Agricola and Kemmet in the same game, do yourself a favor and move on. There are mechanics in the game that are true to many of your favorites, but few if any that are groundbreaking or new. Bad choices don't make the rest of the game an "also played" for you. Granted, repeated stupidity will cost you, but an early error is not impossible to recoverable from. A two player game lets you play the game HOW YOU WANT TO. Got a friend/spouse who is combat adverse? The map is big enough that you can more or less play the game with no confrontation at all, but if you DO want it use the tunnels and you're across the map very shortly. Put 5 players on the map though and sooner or later you're going to have to push through somebody else to get what you want/need. Things I like: Except for the rarest of circumstances, you always have an option to play. There was exactly ONE dead turn revealed over the course of the play testing and you sort of have to try to get in that spot. Factions are Asymmetric enough to be distinct yet not so far off that learning a new one is cumbersome. Top/bottom action choices Ending the game does not make you the winner by default Watching the lights come on as players 'get' their factions and really start to exploit their abilities Rich in theme but not drowning itself in it.[1] LOTS of components Artwork Things I don't care for as much: I don't get the dial system for combat. We used notepads and just wrote down the values we wanted to use. Dials just feel gimmicky to me, but most others really seemed to like the dial/card mechanic. I like apples, you like steak. We can still like each other. The concept of reading the encounter cards off and then showing it to everyone. I'm not as convinced about the 'story telling' part of the game. It's nice to show people what you got, but I think most people just DO that and it's not really a game thing. LOTS of components. Setup time was not trivial, nor cleanup. There isn't a great mechanic for remembering your recruitment bonuses. Now, this falls squarely into the 'Don't be stupid' category, I know. But we found them being forgotten quite often. Lots of sprawl. The pnp was about 80% of the real board size and already things were tight for space yet you had to get up to move from one end of the board to the other. You need room for this game. Things I hated: Nothing. So, where does this leave YOU with Scythe? If you're going into it looking for the next 'IT' game I suggest staying home on this one. Jamey has made a very good game. I'm even going to toss out the F word here and call it fun. The quality will be through the roof as far as materials go. In at $60 and I'd be stunned if you didn't get $60 of enjoyment out of it. And the best part is, if you don't, you can return it (shipping paid) for a refund within 30 days. BUT. I'm not the gamer I was a few years ago and neither are you. I think this game will go off overall as a hit in the board game world as a whole because it meets so many people where they are. There are going to be goons who will shred it up and I can't say they are wrong for where they are in their gaming progression. There are going to be Munchkin players who haven't moved out beyond that phase yet, and THAT'S OKAY. I'm ok with people not liking/loving what I do. One day I may look back at Scythe on my shelf and recall fondly the days where that was good and know something better is always right around the corner. Got questions? Ask away and I'd be happy to discuss! Well, I'm going to go wipe my mouth and my rear (in that order) as I'm sure many of you can't figure out which end this was spewed out of. [1] What ruins the theme for may is the campy nature of some of the encounter cards. I personally feel this is all part of Jamey's desire to be inclusive in his games and remind people that it's ok to have fun with it/they don't need to be living out the Diary of Anne Frank to maintain immersion in the game.
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Oct 21, 2015 03:58
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What
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Oct 21, 2015 04:05
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Sorry. Must have been the beans.
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Oct 21, 2015 04:08
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Well I appreciated the thoughts, at least. How lovely is the combat?
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Oct 21, 2015 04:34
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It's not a combat game so the focus was an efficient mechanism to resolve it and move on. Here is how it plays out: Your mech or character moves into a space with my workers and they go home pissed. You get the territory/resources but lose popularity for each worker you sent home. Popularity is what ups your multipliers at game end. You WANT popularity. OR Your mech/character moves into a spot with one (or more) of MY mechs/character. Once movement completes, combat starts. We each take a dial and choose (privately) how much power from our chart we wish to spend in the combat and set that on the dial. Now, for each NON-WORKER unit you have in the combat you can add ONE combat card to the dial number. (ie: if you have 2 units and I have one, you can use up to 2 cards and I can only use one) High number at reveal wins. If YOU win, I retreat home and lose my stuff. If there were workers there (non-combat troops) you lose popularity for each that retreats. As long as I spent 1 power, in retreat I get to draw another combat card. The idea on the tail end there is to prevent people from using NO power in combat and then coming back a turn or so later to wipe out the prior aggressor who spent all their power getting the location. So, I guess, define lovely? If you were expecting a complex mechanism and a focus on battles this is more like a card game of war. In the light of it's not really a combat game, it's fine for resolution but doesn't leave you craving more battles. If you're buying for epic mech battles, TOTALLY not your game. Does that make sense? (what I said, not what they did)
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Oct 21, 2015 04:48
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I guess what bothers me is that you're pretty disencentivized to do any fighting at all, since you A) need to build up power + combat cards and B) you lose out on popularity even if you win. It's like a lose lose, when combat should be a way to either force others to keep up in the arms race, like any real 4x, or else risk getting hosed hard. This is doubly baffling since he acknowledges the existence of Kemet, a game that explicitly encourages you to attack each other since you get VP that way. Building up a giant wall of THREAT in a game is super loving boring (I'm getting flashbacks of MTG games where both sides just build up a wall of creatures and nobody has a Wrath of God to do anything about it), so if it's so heavily discouraged, why even bother? Like I don't care about the actual mechanics of combat, since I wasn't really expecting like, Forbidden Stars here or anything, but I'm not sure what the viability of combat actually is.
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Oct 21, 2015 04:59
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the Combat reminds me a little of TI: Rex, except in that, both sides lose everything they gamble in the fight. don't know what the cards will be like though. Rex's combat feels really good in play, so I'm willing to try out Scythe! who am I kidding I can't not back a Stonemaier game.
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Oct 21, 2015 05:13
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Don't give me cool minis of badass soldiers on bear mounts and artwork of giant mechs if combat isn't a much bigger deal. Not hating on the guy, but it seems odd to show off awesome war machines then make them the 4th tier aspect of the game.
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Oct 21, 2015 05:16
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Well, you do get a victory star for winning combat, and the more of those you have at the end of the game the higher your score. Most factions can only get a max of 2 stars though. Maxing out power is another way to get a star. I have to review it as there was a proposed change that ANY unit you sent home cost you a popularity vs just workers. I'm no longer clear on the final decision on that. So possibly not EVERY combat costs you popularity. I've heard others say they don't like the Kemet (sorry for the spelling massacre on that above) comparison because it shares little with it. I don't have experience with Kemet to know. The reason combat seems discouraged is that if you beat somebody back it's far easier for you to stay ahead than it is for them to catch up. (The resources stay with the land, so if you get pushed off and pinned back you can't get more resources to build up more mechs and such making the rest of your game living hell. Mech's with NO battles would have been completely pointless, but they didn't want the focus of the game to be battles. I should note that I'm speaking from my own pov on this stuff. Jamey may have WAY better (or worse if possible?) explanations than I do.
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Oct 21, 2015 05:16
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Indolent Bastard posted:Don't give me cool minis of badass soldiers on bear mounts and artwork of giant mechs if combat isn't a much bigger deal. Not hating on the guy, but it seems odd to show off awesome war machines then make them the 4th tier aspect of the game. Hey, I can totally respect that view but the backstory is a bit more complex. The war is for all intents and purposes over. The mechs are mostly a defensive measure and a source of faction pride. You'll note that in almost all of the artwork people are completely calm about the presence of the mechs. It's not an active war zone. But, yeah....badass mechs and soldiers makes you think combat game. I get it.
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Oct 21, 2015 05:21
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GrandpaPants posted:I guess what bothers me is that you're pretty disencentivized to do any fighting at all, since you A) need to build up power + combat cards and B) you lose out on popularity even if you win. It's like a lose lose, when combat should be a way to either force others to keep up in the arms race, like any real 4x, or else risk getting hosed hard. This is doubly baffling since he acknowledges the existence of Kemet, a game that explicitly encourages you to attack each other since you get VP that way. Building up a giant wall of THREAT in a game is super loving boring (I'm getting flashbacks of MTG games where both sides just build up a wall of creatures and nobody has a Wrath of God to do anything about it), so if it's so heavily discouraged, why even bother? I don't disagree with any aspect of the comments about the combat issues. The thing is that despite the advertising I'm not approaching this like a 4x. So the fact that combat seems to be a mutual destruction, build up if only to prevent it, type of situation...is actually okay. I mean this mostly in the respect that it almost makes it more of an interesting strategic choice to try and earn a star or two by making sure you have enough power and picking the right fights. I like a diverse strategy spread and this combat approach seems to fit into that. Now that said, I am backing a freaking Kickstarter. It could end up being less interesting than I think. I will also be one of the first to tell people....age old SA advice...don't back KS projects. I am just part, at this point, part of the Stegmaier hivemind (oh god how) and am okay with it. So back or don't as you will. Honestly...both sides, including the worries, are legit. E: Das Doppelganger's posts are probably more eloquent than mine. ChiTownEddie fucked around with this message at 05:27 on Oct 21, 2015 |
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Oct 21, 2015 05:25
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