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Vargs posted:I haven't touched the final episode yet (which seems to be getting positive reception), but Tales from the Borderlands is surprisingly fantastic. I actually just started that. It's pretty good so far, although definitely a huge change of pace from the teenage drama fest I'd just finished.
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Oct 21, 2015 05:33
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Stokes posted:After sitting on it for a day I choose to believe that we are not OG Max. We are just the Max that finally closes the loop, via whichever ending you choose. Max's first selfie was her Dark Tower, but she climbed it too many times to try and fix things. If only she'd brought Cuthbert's horn.
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Oct 21, 2015 05:34
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Stokes posted:After sitting on it for a day I choose to believe that we are not OG Max. We are just the Max that finally closes the loop, via whichever ending you choose. Max's first selfie was her Dark Tower, but she climbed it too many times to try and fix things. Would you say we were.. beta Max. A ho ho ho.
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Oct 21, 2015 05:35
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"[/spoiler posted:Ekusukariba" post="451715269"] My Max kissed Chloe and only hugged Warren. She still only hugged Chloe at the end (save Chloe ending). Perhaps you have to agree with her about everything? I called her out on her bullshit on several occasions. I thought the endings were "ok", not bad enough to ruin the game or anything. But I saw the final twist coming from the first episode so I can't really call it a twist.
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Oct 21, 2015 05:35
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Renoistic posted:My Max kissed Chloe and only hugged Warren. She still only hugged Chloe at the end (save Chloe ending). Perhaps you have to agree with her about everything? I called her out on her bullshit on several occasions. I thought the endings were "ok", not bad enough to ruin the game or anything. But I saw the final twist coming from the first episode so I can't really call it a twist. They don't kiss unless you choose to sacrifice Chloe no matter what
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Oct 21, 2015 05:42
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Renoistic posted:My Max kissed Chloe and only hugged Warren. She still only hugged Chloe at the end (save Chloe ending). Perhaps you have to agree with her about everything? I called her out on her bullshit on several occasions. I thought the endings were "ok", not bad enough to ruin the game or anything. But I saw the final twist coming from the first episode so I can't really call it a twist. One of the game's directors was talking about this on tumblr apparently. You only get the kiss Chloe ending if you sacrifice Arcadia Bay. Otherwise, he said that he didn't think the total destruction of the town and many of the people they love to be an appropriate time for them to be kissing. However, he said that by choosing Chloe you are basically committing to the idea that Chloe and Max are in a relationship even if they didn't seal it with a kiss.
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Oct 21, 2015 05:43
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BobTheJanitor posted:It would be interesting if Max does eventually have to tell Chloe about the alternate timeline, though. Maybe in the theoretical episode 5 photo travel scene (I'm betting on the picture with Warren before the party) you have to convince Chloe not to run off looking for Nathan so you can warn her of upcoming events (and you're limited to the immediate area of the picture) and that's the only way you can do it. Quoting a guess I made from 2 months ago that ended up being dead on accurate. If only they'd asked me to write the rest of the scenes for them. 
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Oct 21, 2015 06:12
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I wanted to see what kind of justification people could possibly have to kill arcadia bay so glanced at youtube for kicks. Hmmm town of poo poo heads or a hot girl tough choice =)... is about the only thing I saw. I can't see any kind of rational thought to killing thousands just to save a crush, let alone killing said crush's family. Yeah there's the guilt that Chloe is fated to die in a bathroom stall but to murder everyone else is absolutely insane. 
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Oct 21, 2015 06:51
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What I still don't understand: We stole nathan's phone. It should be in chloe's house. How did he text us from nathan's phone if we had his loving phone?? Furthermore, HOW DID NATHAN CALL US? HOW MANY PHONES DOES THIS FUCKER HAVE If the answer is "well he's rich" that's a lovely answer.
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Oct 21, 2015 06:54
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i saved chloe because i didnt buy whatever case it was trying to make that max caused the storm nor did i understand how more time travel would somehow prevent that, nor did it establish that the destroyed arcadia bay timeline wouldnt still exist if max jumped to another one. basically poo poo is inevitable so gently caress it
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Oct 21, 2015 06:56
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ThisIsACoolGuy posted:I wanted to see what kind of justification people could possibly have to kill arcadia bay so glanced at youtube for kicks. Hmmm town of poo poo heads or a hot girl tough choice =)... is about the only thing I saw. I went with that route since it sounded like there'd be something crazy on the other end , alittle disappointing is what it was  .Getting through things with Chloe alive has sorta been a big thing? And Max does some massive backtracking out of concern for Chloe in EP 5, so I was curious to see it to the end.
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Oct 21, 2015 07:00
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Rosalind posted:One of the game's directors was talking about this on tumblr apparently. You only get the kiss Chloe ending if you sacrifice Arcadia Bay. Otherwise, he said that he didn't think the total destruction of the town and many of the people they love to be an appropriate time for them to be kissing. However, he said that by choosing Chloe you are basically committing to the idea that Chloe and Max are in a relationship even if they didn't seal it with a kiss. Interesting. The creator ship-confirmation cracks me up given your avatar. Tangentially, I just finished Tales of the Borderlands, which did a way better job with it's ending. Overall, I still think LiS is a better game, but Tales is great and easily the best thing TT has done since WD S1. Everyone should play it - it's wildly different in tone, but it'll be a pick up after LiS bittersweetness.
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Oct 21, 2015 07:05
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GreenBuckanneer posted:The other ending is clearly the "good" ending because it has a lot more closure and had more care done with it. It really isn't. The bae over bay (love this) ending might be shorter but that doesn't mean it had more care applied to it. I'd actually argue that thematically the 'good' ending of the game is the ending where you save Chloe and leave the town to it's fate. The very first time Max uses her powers it is instinctual. Unlike pretty much every other use of her power in the game (First photo and weird timestop thing) Max isn't doing this intentionally, it's just something that happens. From a certain point of view it is arguable that this is actually fate. Max was always supposed to save Chloe, so much so in fact that she breaks the drat laws of physics to do it without even realizing who it was she was saving. From Max's perspective the first time round is the way things were supposed to happen. That very first time she rewound history was something just as out of her control as the death of Chloe's father, it was the way things were meant to happen. Yes she changed things after that, but the tipping point as the game presents itself to us is the very first time around the circle, that it is using her power at all that fucks things up. By choosing to go back and do nothing Max is actually altering history and fate the same as William's death. Ultimately the tornado is just the death of William writ large. It is an awful thing that happens to Max and Chloe, a giant world shattering event that comes into their lives and makes a mess of everything from completely beyond your control. Just like with William max has the power to go back and change things if she wants to, she can save William's life and she can stop the tornado but in both instances it comes at a heavy price. (Ha... get it?) The game presents you with the alternate timeline as a way to reinforce this. People are spending a lot of time talking about how this is a game where the moral is "Don't time travel it fucks everything up" but I actually feel the moral could also be argued to be more along the lines of "If you could change things, would you really want to?" Its why I think the Save Chloe ending is the stronger of the two going along the game's themes. The Save Arcadia Bay ending is a grim and depressing ending that works within the game's view on trying to gently caress with fate. You can change things, but are they really better? You can save William but Chloe has to beg to be put out of her misery. You can save the town but you have to listen to your best-friend/lover bleed out on the floor of a public washroom. Max clearly didn't think saving William was worth Chloe and I'd argue that even going into the supposed 'good' ending she still is clearly miserable about the choice with the only thing that lightens her spirit being the memory of Chloe in the form of the blue butterfly. Meanwhile the Save Chloe ending expands on themes from throughout the game. The Save Chloe ending is all about dealing with reality how it is as opposed to how we'd like it to be. The tornado was always going to happen (it's the first thing we see in the game!), and all the time travel fuckery in the world isn't going to fix it without an unacceptable tradeoff. Max makes her choice and she lives with it. Things don't get better at once, but despite driving out of a wreckage laded down filled with the bodies of their loved ones the tone of the ending is overwhelmingly optimistic. Chloe and Max are moving on, accepting the world as it is and trying to find the happiness within that rather than warp it to suit a yearning for what should be better but never really is. Even the music choices say a lot. The 'good' ending is Spanish Sahara which is a song about an awful nightmarish hellhole that serves as a metaphor for trying to get over trauma that ultimately will never, ever leave you. The Save Chloe ending gets Obstacles which is a profoundly optimistic piece about moving forward in spite of, well, obstacles. It is also notable as being the song chosen for the original release trailer and the end of episode one, meaning that it bookends the series quite nicely. Of the two endings I'll agree that the Save the bay ending had more closure, but only in the realm of "Life is poo poo". The actual good ending for the series is open ended, and like the series it is about making the best of the hand the universe deals you instead of giving into the belief that you can make it better. ThisIsACoolGuy posted:I wanted to see what kind of justification people could possibly have to kill arcadia bay so glanced at youtube for kicks. Hmmm town of poo poo heads or a hot girl tough choice =)... is about the only thing I saw. It is the trolley problem on a grand scale. Kill Chloe to save all of them or kill all of them to save her. It's a moral question without answer because you are killing someone. I'm of the opinion (as above) that they were basically fated to be murdered by the storm, and that just about every single other time travel attempt from Max has resulted in things being worse than the time before. Plus the game gave me no reason to actually believe that letting Chloe die would fix it even if I'm told that, plus NO gently caress YOU DAD! Caros fucked around with this message at 07:19 on Oct 21, 2015 |
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Oct 21, 2015 07:13
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ThisIsACoolGuy posted:I wanted to see what kind of justification people could possibly have to kill arcadia bay so glanced at youtube for kicks. Hmmm town of poo poo heads or a hot girl tough choice =)... is about the only thing I saw. Homies help homies, always. Besides, after all the hell I went through to save her, ain't no way I was gonna let her die.
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Oct 21, 2015 07:17
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I saved Chloe and I don't even feel bad about it. The only reason we think the tornado was cause by time travel is because of warren, and I'm not gonna trust some basic beta-rear end little boy with my hard scientific facts. It was La Nina or something, I didn't cause any loving storm. Time travel gives me nosebleeds and I've spent the past 5 days trying to save this chick so I'm not about to throw all that effort away for nothing, dammit Although I then went and watched the other ending on Youtube and regretted my choice instantly
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Oct 21, 2015 07:22
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I picked the save Chloe ending because it reminded me of the third Madoka movie, only Max didn't have to turn evil.
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Oct 21, 2015 07:26
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homura owns
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Oct 21, 2015 07:26
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ThisIsACoolGuy posted:I wanted to see what kind of justification people could possibly have to kill arcadia bay so glanced at youtube for kicks. Hmmm town of poo poo heads or a hot girl tough choice =)... is about the only thing I saw. I chose to save Chloe simply because I disliked where the ending was heading and felt that the writers were trying to force me into the other choice, which is obviously the morally correct answer. Went for it solely on the basis of "gently caress this ending, and gently caress whatever time god gave Max these powers, then decided to arbitrarily destroy everything when she actually used them". How much I valued Chloe's life over the rest of the town was a complete non-factor. Burn it all down.
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Oct 21, 2015 07:29
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Alright I'm back I Am The 49% gently caress all y'all and gently caress this game I am NOT allowing the Sacrificial Queer trope to play out one more GODDAMN time my story about women who love each other ends with both of them ALIVE and I do NOT care how bad this game tries to make me feel about it by giving me the lesser ending for it. All so can say is I'm glad I bought the season pass because it effectively means I didn't pay a god drat cent for this episode.
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Oct 21, 2015 07:35
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If it makes you save Chloe ending people any happier the game tries really hard to make you feel bad about it if you went the way I did; there's like a ten-minute sequence clearly designed to guilt you as hard as possible It didn't work because I disliked Chloe and also because a triumphant guitar solo began playing as the camera lingered meaningfully on her casket, which was unintentionally hilarious but I felt like they were definitely trying to treat both endings with equal importance e: vvvvvv yeah Solomonic fucked around with this message at 07:56 on Oct 21, 2015 |
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Oct 21, 2015 07:39
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epitasis posted:homura owns Sticky dis. Seriously, the number of times I've cried on the "explain all the poo poo Homura has gone through to save Madoka" episode. Solomonic posted:It didn't work because I disliked Chloe and also because a triumphant guitar solo began playing as the camera lingered meaningfully on her casket, which was unintentionally hilarious This guitar solo is triumphant to you? Wut. Caedar fucked around with this message at 07:46 on Oct 21, 2015 |
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Oct 21, 2015 07:40
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The only dialogue choice where I felt connected was when Max spoke to Mr. Jefferson in the Nightmare Classroom. Every choice was very nice and summed up my feelings in some way.
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Oct 21, 2015 07:58
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I saved Chloe. Because if Fate is desperately trying to kill someone, and CYOA games are based on binary determinism, it's defeatist to accept pawn sacrifice. The tornado simply felt INEVITABLE, almost deserved, and it wasn't that I cared about saving Chloe, per say, although the "LOOK AT ALL THE FUN YOU TWO HAD!" was pure psychological priming. It was more that it felt unfair to CANCEL THE TORNADO.
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Oct 21, 2015 08:01
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Caros posted:It really isn't. This is a really good post that is making me rethink my decision to save the Bay a bit tbh. I still don't think I could bring myself to re-kill Kate, but I still like this reading of the Save Chloe ending a lot. Speaking of the ending... I guess another thing the final choice does is show us what the point of the whole doomed timeline where Chloe is paralyzed was beyond just illustrating the mechanics of using photos to jump back in time. There's such a strong parallel between Chloe asking you to help her commit suicide and Chloe asking you to let her get killed by Nathan. In both cases Chloe has already made her own decision about what to do, and the player's decision is about how to respond to that. And in both cases Chloe is weighing the continuation of her life over the wellbeing of those around her, although in the case of the timeline where she's paralyzed there's also the whole issue of her quality of life with a terminal disease which doesn't really map onto the saving the bay decision. But they're still similar in a lot of ways.
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Oct 21, 2015 08:02
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Empress Theonora posted:This is a really good post that is making me rethink my decision to save the Bay a bit tbh. Aww, thanks. <3 For what it's worth while I think the Sacrifice the bay ending is the 'good' ending, I wouldn't go so far as to say that the alternative is the 'bad' one. If anything I'd say it'd be better to call them something like the 'optimistic' and 'bittersweet' endings. In the optimistic ending things suck right now, but they're going to get better in the future. Max and Chloe literally drive off together into the sunset while trying to recover from the lovely hand that they were dealt. In the bittersweet ending Max stops the tornado, stops the killer and saves the entire rest of the game's cast. That scene in the diner is there as a strong reminder that like them or not the people just you by yourself interacted with over the course of the game can fill the place to the brim. Neither ending is perfect, if anything I say that the optimistic ending is the 'good' one in my books solely because I think the music choice and overall feel of it is more life affirming. The death of Chloe hits harder to home for Max and even if it doesn't ruin her, her life is darker for the lack of her friend than the death of every other person in town. You're also spot on about the doomed timeline. Another good way to look at the ending isn't that you're choosing who to kill. Multiverse theory seems to be in full on effect at this point so you're really just choosing which reality you want to live in. Caros fucked around with this message at 08:40 on Oct 21, 2015 |
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Oct 21, 2015 08:24
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With the ending ,I saved Chloe, because destiny is a dick if it wastes more than a week of your time saving someone repeatedly to prove a point. Also, if Max never saved Chloe and started branching timelines then there is only the single timeline, but if we let Arcadia die keeping the time powers intact there are infinite branches of reality, including one where max warns everyone in arcadia or something and they're fine. time travel is hosed up
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Oct 21, 2015 08:24
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I think the game would have been better with a different ending: or rather, another decision about what ending to choose from. Probably the best place to have it would be just before you use Warren's party selfie and right after the section where you've just saved a bunch of people from Arcadia Bay that you've been interacting with other the course of the game. I can't remember if he says it without you explicitly choosing that option but he mentions Max is the cause of the storm due to her time fuckery, I think it'd be a good place to put the save Arcadia Bay/Chloe choice immediately before you choose to go back in time with that photo - you can either then not go back to save Chloe and live with the choices you've made for the rest of the town and with the fact that the last time you saw Chloe was when Jefferson killed her, or you can decide that the people you've just spent the last section helping to survive are worth less than the life of your dead friend. If you choose to save Chloe at this point then the rest of the game as it was plays out the same and gives you the choice again at the usual point, only this time it'd be a choice for accepting that Chloe wants you to let her die/that you hosed up massively screwing with all the timelines or reaffirming your choice to have Chloe live above all else. You'd miss out on the nightmare if you choose to save the town in the diner, but I think the nightmare would only really make sense if you decided that you don't care about loving with time to make sure you get your way.
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Oct 21, 2015 08:26
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I still wish we met Rachel, even if just to view time fuckery from another point of view while at the same time getting called out on it ourselves. I know, she was likely just a normal person. A bit similar, and I know lovely anime, but the game could've used a scene like in Steins;Gate where you're being called out on trying to time travel to fix something in the the nick of time. (That scene was really powerful). Also, asking again: In the nightmare during the dorm portion could you do anything interesting as Victoria and was she the only person you "turned into" or could you do others as well?
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Oct 21, 2015 09:09
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Caros posted:It really isn't. I think this is an interesting reading on the ending. I didn't really think of comparing the music in the two because I watched them a few hours apart. Though it seems obvious now given how much the game loves its music. At the very least it gives me something to think about when I play back through. I'm also curious if somethings will come together better when I play straight through in a day or two as opposed over 10 months. I think a lot of the ambiguity for me in the game is how exactly they want time travel to work with the alternate universes and photo traveling. I don't know if I buy that there are all these other concurrent alternate time lines existing on their own. The only real support for their endurance beyond when Max leaves is from the nightmare sequences and I don't know if we can firmly say those "happen" in any sense beyond being actual nightmares. I feel like the big time jump sequences seem to suggest that there is a single timeline that we are re-writing -via the device of having the photos being overwritten with alternatives. Max can rewind a couple minutes at most in terms in terms of direct rewind. Her ability to go more distantly into the past is bound by the area in the photos she is using. So she can manipulate things in her past at that point, but once she's done she sort of zips back to the "present." As to the potential for a sequel, that seems like a sort of odd choice unless they just mean a game of the same style. Another game with the time travel powers conceit seems like it would have a hard time not making a clear "right" interpretation for LiS. Like is you shouldn't time travel why are we doing it again? I mean they said they'd use new characters, but we as players know what happened in the first game and it would be hard to separate that from a second game with similar mechanics and themes. Dessel posted:I still wish we met Rachel, even if just to view time fuckery from another point of view while at the same time getting called out on it ourselves. I know, she was likely just a normal person. You sort of turn into Rachael, but it's just her clothes on Max's character model. Karnegal fucked around with this message at 09:16 on Oct 21, 2015 |
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Oct 21, 2015 09:13
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I liked the ending, sure it was predictable but that's not necessarily a bad thing. The only thing I wish was that they'd had the balls to put in a gently caress everything ending where Max calls Chloe from the gallery, hears the screaming and death tornado, hangs up, puts her phone back on silent and decides to try the caviar.
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Oct 21, 2015 10:21
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Mr. Flunchy posted:The only thing I wish was that they'd had the balls to put in a gently caress everything ending where Max calls Chloe from the gallery, hears the screaming and death tornado, hangs up, puts her phone back on silent and decides to try the caviar. Haha yeah, as much as that doesn't gel with the theme of the series it'd be hilarious to see how many people would take the "learn absolutely nothing and win everything" path if given the opportunity. Paul Zuvella posted:This is kind of the one game where I am really accepting of the "your choice didn't really matter at all" thing that happens in nearly all of these "choose your own adventure" adventure games because that's kind of the entire point of it. Your choices never really mattered at all, you could take them back moments after making them for the entire course of the game. The entire game is an analogy for denial, and that's really awesome. You desperately try to make everything perfect, but you cannot. It's pretty heavy stuff. I totally agree with all this, which is why I didn't care that the endings weren't terribly specific or had an ending slide for every little decision you made in the game. The main message I got out of LiS is that we can't be passive observers in our own lives forever, and that making decisions without immediately knowing the consequences thereafter is an important part of growing up. People who wanted a cinematic of them making out with Warren at the drive-in or whatever are missing the point in this regard, I think. Max just spent an entire game learning that you can't control every consequence of your actions, so I'm glad they avoided the very video gamey "and here's what happened next" epilogue. The reality of the story ends there. exquisite tea fucked around with this message at 10:34 on Oct 21, 2015 |
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Oct 21, 2015 10:25
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Ekusukariba posted:Well him, Frank, Pompidou, and Joyce all exploded so they wouldn't leave much  So glad I picked the right ending. Legit curious how many people who were mad about the ending, picked the more disappointing one.
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Oct 21, 2015 10:27
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Ekusukariba posted:Well him, Frank, Pompidou, and Joyce all exploded so they wouldn't leave much Don't forget you jumped back from Warren's photo, so maybe they weren't all there in the current timeline? Maybe? Hope springs eternal.
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Oct 21, 2015 10:36
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exquisite tea posted:Don't forget you jumped back from Warren's photo, so maybe they weren't all there in the current timeline? Maybe? Hope springs eternal. David is alive at least
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Oct 21, 2015 10:39
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The most cynical implication of the save Chloe ending is that Nathan and Jefferson are almost certainly alive, presumably having already been taken to prison somewhere away from the town.
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Oct 21, 2015 10:42
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Despite the differences in opinions I think we can all appreciate the absence of a poorly implemented trial and error dangerous driving section.
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Oct 21, 2015 10:50
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SelenicMartian posted:Despite the differences in opinions I think we can all appreciate the absence of a poorly implemented trial and error dangerous driving section. As soon as Max got in the car I was prepared for a really bad QTE-ish driving section where I'd have to rewind every few seconds to avoid an obstacle that there was no way to have noticed first time. Was really pleased when it was just a brief cutscene instead.
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Oct 21, 2015 11:42
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The main thing which pissed me off was there was no epilogue just a bad cutscene. is that different if you choose to sacrifice arcadia? I enjoyed all the time travel fuckery and how crazy it got but I think I just have to accept that time travel is a really bad plot device in a choice/consequence game.
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Oct 21, 2015 12:02
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hemale in pain posted:I enjoyed all the time travel fuckery and how crazy it got but I think I just have to accept that time travel is a really bad plot device in a choice/consequence game. I think the localized time travel was pretty good at avoiding the usual pitfalls of time travel, actually, and I kind of like'd to have seen a game relying solely on that. There was no dealing with alternate timelines until the whole jumping through photos was introduced, and then everything veered hard towards stereotypical time travel craziness.
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Oct 21, 2015 12:39
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You're right! The picture timetravel was were the storyline took a turn for the worst for me. I just prefered being an rear end in a top hat kid and misusing my powers to force people to like me. I wish the entire game was more of that. I've got an itch to play small town mystery type games. Is there anything similar to this? Beyond the obvious Deadly premonition or silent hill.
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Oct 21, 2015 12:50
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