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HEY GAL posted:stop hating on archaic weapons The saber isn't at fault here, it's the guy thinking it was worth the training time after the invention of the machine gun.
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Oct 21, 2015 16:08
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and that guy is 110% right
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Oct 21, 2015 16:10
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Imagine how silly you would look chopping up those machine gun dudes with an old saber.
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Oct 21, 2015 16:13
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Ensign Expendable posted:Imagine how silly you would look chopping up those machine gun dudes with an old saber. from whose perspective? im pretty sure being sliced open or run through with a sword does not feel all that silly when it happens.
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Oct 21, 2015 16:15
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Ensign Expendable posted:Imagine how
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Oct 21, 2015 16:16
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WoodrowSkillson posted:from whose perspective? im pretty sure being sliced open or run through with a sword does not feel all that silly when it happens.
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Oct 21, 2015 16:17
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I was making a joke about the embarrassment of being seen with an unfashionable saber, but I guess it fell flat. Chopping people never goes out of style, but my guys usually do it with a sapper's spade.
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Oct 21, 2015 16:19
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Ensign Expendable posted:I was making a joke about the embarrassment of being seen with an unfashionable saber 
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Oct 21, 2015 16:22
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HEY GAL posted:i remember reading an account from some german dude on the eastern front who was in his unit's rear with the baggage train when it caught a bunch of russian cavalry: he says he sat against a wagon quite calmly and the last thing that went through his head before he got sabered in the neck was a gently baffled "I can't believe this is happening in the 20th century." If the Russian had been using one of Patton's modern sabers for a modern war maybe your German wouldn't have survived to write that account. 
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Oct 21, 2015 16:32
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Ensign Expendable posted:Imagine how silly you would look chopping up those machine gun dudes with an old saber. "You shoulda rolled into battle with a sword, Brad. That woulda fuckin' rocked."
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Oct 21, 2015 16:51
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Ensign Expendable posted:I was making a joke about the embarrassment of being seen with an unfashionable saber, but I guess it fell flat. Chopping people never goes out of style, but my guys usually do it with a sapper's spade. See, that's just it. A spade can chop a dude, and can dig a trench, or a latrine. Whereas a slick piece of hanzo steel can just do the first thing. So much more efficient to make sure everyone gets a shovel than to design a separate implement. And cavalry would still look pretty cool wielding special cavalry spades into combat.
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Oct 21, 2015 17:22
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a Swedish Feather makes an excellent candleholder because of the spike on the bottom
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Oct 21, 2015 17:25
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Ensign Expendable posted:Imagine how silly you would look chopping up those machine gun dudes with an old saber. They work pretty well in subjugating an indigenous population though.. 
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Oct 21, 2015 17:42
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Hazzard posted:This probably belongs in a Photography History thread instead of a Military History thread, but how did they get those WW1 photos? I thought early cameras needed you to stand still for hours to get the picture? I've taken a Photo History class. Mathew Brady's kit had exposure times of several seconds during the American Civil War; by 1914 photography was pretty much the same state as it was in 1985, what with the introduction of gelatin-silver film ~1880. Photographers during the Great War captured images of (rather blurred) artillery shells in the air. I finally emailed Dad with HEY GAL's plea of recording his war stories for future historians, if nothing else. Also asked if he knows which nuke his oldest brother walked toward -- prompted by InediblePenguin asking "so was your uncle in Tumbler-Snapper Dog in '52, or Upshot-Knothole Encore in '53?" Dad claimed to have forgot all his war stories last time I asked him to retell them for y'all, and I'm pretty sure his brother's (SF MAJ) exploits in Laos and Cambodia while Dad was in Vietnam will never be declassified, what with the technically-war-crimes and all. (said uncle died of cancer when I was a wee baby, if he was still around I'd ask him directly) FAUXTON posted:So that's how Patton, a man who decided a new cavalry saber design was appropriate in the year of our lord nineteen hundred and thirteen, ended up in Europe. (Patton was a loving nutjob, but he knew heavy cavalry tactics and went on to beat Rommel at his own game.) (That game being Panzer Blitzkrieg) sullat posted:See, that's just it. A spade can chop a dude, and can dig a trench, or a latrine. Whereas a slick piece of hanzo steel can just do the first thing. So much more efficient to make sure everyone gets a shovel than to design a separate implement. And cavalry would still look pretty cool wielding special cavalry spades into combat. Chillbro Baggins fucked around with this message at 17:44 on Oct 21, 2015 |
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Oct 21, 2015 17:42
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Bad Angus! Bad!
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Delivery McGee posted:Re: Cavalry in WWI: yeah, that was a thing that happened. 2LT-at-the-time Patton invented the lastest bestest cavalry sword while he was at West Point. quote:(Patton was a loving nutjob, but he knew heavy cavalry tactics and went on to beat Rommel at his own game.) patton wallenstein stonewall jackson that dude from the american civil war who thought he was made of glass anyone else?
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Oct 21, 2015 17:49
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Delivery McGee posted:Re: Cavalry in WWI: yeah, that was a thing that happened. 2LT-at-the-time Patton invented the lastest bestest cavalry sword while he was at West Point. Interesting that he also favoured a straight cavalry sword. Swedes had those too in the 30 Years War and later. What are the differencies between curved and straight swords? I'd think that a curved sword would be better in a cavalry charge even if it wasn't as lethal, because it wouldn't get stuck so easily.
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Oct 21, 2015 18:05
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I wouldn't harp on Patton's WWI sword considering that stupider things were done by many other people a year later, and that Italians and Soviets had cavalry in WWII.
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Oct 21, 2015 18:08
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Hogge Wild posted:Interesting that he also favoured a straight cavalry sword. Swedes had those too in the 30 Years War and later. What are the differencies between curved and straight swords? I'd think that a curved sword would be better in a cavalry charge even if it wasn't as lethal, because it wouldn't get stuck so easily. Isn't the main difference that curved slashes better and makes it easier to cut a dude up, but a straight sabe makes it easier to stab (like between two armoured plates)?
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Oct 21, 2015 18:11
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Molentik posted:Isn't the main difference that curved slashes better and makes it easier to cut a dude up, but a straight sabe makes it easier to stab (like between two armoured plates)? In the case of cavalry use, it's a bit more complicated than that. The important consideration for a cavalry weapon is how to get your weapon OUT of the unfortunate fellow you just attacked, instead of breaking your wrist or losing your sword. I believe Easton has a video arguing that the curve in the sabre helps with that, either by facilitating a sort of thrusting cut where the point doesn't get stuck in, or otherwise helping the body slide off the end.
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Oct 21, 2015 18:25
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Molentik posted:Isn't the main difference that curved slashes better and makes it easier to cut a dude up, but a straight sabe makes it easier to stab (like between two armoured plates)? How to stab someone while cavalry charging https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9c_wwRnukYs Cut Vs Thrust in terms of cavalry tactics was a debate that raged on forever and for every person that loved the Patton type of sword there was someone who thought it was garbage. Especially given that you can make swords that do both quite well, if not as good as say a 1796 trooper sword is at cutting or the patton is at thrusting.
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Oct 21, 2015 18:30
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JcDent posted:I wouldn't harp on Patton's WWI sword considering that stupider things were done by many other people a year later, and that Italians and Soviets had cavalry in WWII. Soviet cavalry largely acted as more mobile infantry and also had rifles and submachineguns.
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Oct 21, 2015 18:49
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I remember reading a few years ago about certain types of cold war light tanks which trended toward large caliber, low velocity cannons that shot ATGM's for anti-armour duty and were intended for infantry support. I'm assuming IFV's are meant to fill that role now? Does anyone anywhere field any kind of light tank as we would think of it anymore?
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Oct 21, 2015 19:07
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sullat posted:Joke's on him, I guess. That word has been appropriated by the people. Delivery McGee posted:Re: Cavalry in WWI: yeah, that was a thing that happened. 2LT-at-the-time Patton invented the lastest bestest cavalry sword while he was at West Point.
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Oct 21, 2015 19:11
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Slavvy posted:I remember reading a few years ago about certain types of cold war light tanks which trended toward large caliber, low velocity cannons that shot ATGM's for anti-armour duty and were intended for infantry support. I'm assuming IFV's are meant to fill that role now? Does anyone anywhere field any kind of light tank as we would think of it anymore? I assume you mean the M551 Sheridan, which I refuse to call a tank. Paraguay still has M3 Stuarts (and M4 Shermans) in its active inventory. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paraguayan_Army#Armored_vehicles PT-76 and Scorpion are still in use in many armies. Nenonen fucked around with this message at 19:19 on Oct 21, 2015 |
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Oct 21, 2015 19:12
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HEY GAL posted:who was the craziest general who was still good at war Yang Xiuqing, if he wasn't faking the voice of God stuff.
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Oct 21, 2015 19:15
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Arquinsiel posted:I think Poe's Law results in it being a runaway success really. lookit the balance, i bet it's real fast too patton had Good Sword Opinions
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Oct 21, 2015 19:15
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HEY GAL posted:like a cut-and-thrust sword, i guess. isn't it awesome? Shame he was a raging antisemite
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Oct 21, 2015 19:22
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P-Mack posted:Yang Xiuqing, if he wasn't faking the voice of God stuff. Which let's face it he totally was. Edit: Mohammed? 
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Oct 21, 2015 19:22
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HEY GAL posted:like a cut-and-thrust sword, i guess. isn't it awesome? i do not think you could cut much with a patton sword
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Oct 21, 2015 19:23
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HEY GAL posted:that dude from the american civil war who thought he was made of glass This is why I read this thread.
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Oct 21, 2015 19:24
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Baracula posted:Shame he was a raging antisemite
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Oct 21, 2015 19:24
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quote:An excellent book that ironically, proves the complete opposite thesis than what the author is trying disprove! As with many books concerning the third-rail subject matter of Jews and their disproportionate influence and power, this one doesn't disappoint in that it uses much of their own words and actions as the most damming evidence.
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Oct 21, 2015 19:34
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^^^^ Gotta love that guy's grasp of the double negative. Nenonen posted:I assume you mean the M551 Sheridan, which I refuse to call a tank. WoodrowSkillson posted:i do not think you could cut much with a patton sword
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Oct 21, 2015 19:38
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HEY GAL posted:that dude from the american civil war who thought he was made of glass Who was that? A cursory google search only came up with a French King, Charles VI, not known for his military skills.
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Oct 21, 2015 19:44
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Nenonen posted:I assume you mean the M551 Sheridan, which I refuse to call a tank. I bet you'll be pleased to hear that the successor to the 551 is on the way! Here's a white paper on it if anyone is interested.
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Oct 21, 2015 19:46
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sullat posted:Who was that? A cursory google search only came up with a French King, Charles VI, not known for his military skills. 
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Oct 21, 2015 19:50
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Arquinsiel posted:Speaking as an Olypmic fencer, that's a thing of beauty. I'd love to own one. I have literally no idea how it'd be used on horseback though. The guy in that video says you use it like a lance, holding it out in front with the point ahead of you to skewer people with. Straight swords have been used by cavalry before that too though haven't they, didn't the Romans have one? How did they use it back then? Also that's really cool, how long have you been fencing for? also to step back a bit: chitoryu12 posted:The constipation was traced to two factors: soldiers are just plain scared to take a dump in a warzone, and they often exercised heavily while consuming massive amounts of protein shakes in an effort to get jacked. e: relatedly, how do people cope with sleep in a warzone? you don't want your soldiers just keeling over out of exhaustion every time they close their eyes, but I'd expect a lot of people have trouble sleeping at a scheduled time when they feel like they're in danger? Koramei fucked around with this message at 19:56 on Oct 21, 2015 |
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Oct 21, 2015 19:54
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bewbies posted:I bet you'll be pleased to hear that the successor to the 551 is on the way!
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Oct 21, 2015 19:55
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HEY GAL posted:i forgot, actually. maybe it was a guy who thought his arm was made of glass? i can't find him either I thought it was sugar, not glass...
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Oct 21, 2015 19:57
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Kafouille posted:The way Kartzev dumps on the T-64 is a bit rich really, considering the T-72 simply would have not existed without it, the T-72 prototypes being mostly built out of T-64 parts.
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Oct 21, 2015 20:04
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