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Cicadas! posted:Oh look, it's Supernorn. Hello, Supernorn. what defense? he ignores nearly all the criticism, both the dumb pooey ones and the actual intelligent effortposts
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Oct 21, 2015 20:23
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Patware posted:what defense? he ignores nearly all the criticism, both the dumb pooey ones and the actual intelligent effortposts To be fair, it is the community manager's job to touch the poop, and she was driven off a long time ago
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Oct 21, 2015 20:28
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Patware posted:what defense? he ignores nearly all the criticism, both the dumb pooey ones and the actual intelligent effortposts  Yes, I should definitely be taking this thread seriously.
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Oct 21, 2015 20:28
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lol customers? yeah right pffft! Edit: Okay, look, I'll find one for you. Thoughts? Mediocrity Goggles posted:I honestly believe the game really was at its best nearly two years ago when combat and recovery options were nice and simple, just needed more content and structure. Instead, we got well over a year of meandering about and getting nothing done because they were too busy trying to think of ways to bog down most mechanics with arbitrary restrictions. Sure, combat and stuff still needed some tweaks, but just bogging it down for the sake of "Gotta attract that Davoren fucked around with this message at 20:46 on Oct 21, 2015 |
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Oct 21, 2015 20:42
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audience, yo!" was not it, and I'm sure that even to this day, enemies can kill you just by jumping in/around you like some coked up jackrabbit while you have even less ability to effectively defend against it, and sure as hell cannot heal all the constant chip damage from these encounters in any efficient manner, time or resource-wise.
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Who here actually has said anything besides how bad starbound is? just curious, because if I made something, I probably wouldn't read a bunch of words about how my game is crap waiting for that one piece of corn that is honest criticism. Especially if I made 20 million dollars on said thing.
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Oct 21, 2015 20:46
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Supernorn posted:
The gently caress are you even here for then?
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Oct 21, 2015 20:46
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Supernorn posted:
seriously. and you wonder why theres shitposting? I dare you to respond to a single serious post in this thread. theres probably one on every page. maybe
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Oct 21, 2015 20:49
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Turtlicious posted:Who here actually has said anything besides how bad starbound is? starbound
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Oct 21, 2015 20:50
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why isn't ray sipes a developer for starbound??
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Oct 21, 2015 20:53
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Turtlicious posted:Who here actually has said anything besides how bad starbound is? they didnt make 20 million on starbound, they made it on the idea of starbound, the shitposting didnt happen overnight, this is the result of the devs ignoring legitimate criticism and doubling down on bad decisions, if they made a genuine effort to engage with their userbase rather than say things like 'Yes, I should definitely be taking this thread seriously.' maybe they could claw back some credibility
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Oct 21, 2015 20:53
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They have 20 million dollars, what would they need credibility for?
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Oct 21, 2015 20:55
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So star... what, exactly?
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Oct 21, 2015 20:55
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it's funny because there actually have been a lot of good ideas thrown around, but most of them consist of 'hey maybe you should fix the actual core gameplay' which i guess doesn't count or something.
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Oct 21, 2015 20:57
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just avoid any game with star in the title, it's easier
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Oct 21, 2015 20:58
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Supernorn posted:
this is exactly how you should not do it as a dev
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Oct 21, 2015 21:00
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like, if the game had actually gone somewhere of note over the course of like 3 years then maybe there'd be less shitposting, because right now really the best advice people can actually give is 'stop doing the dumb poo poo you're doing and do something sane'. unless that happens no one is going to care about whatever banal poo poo is pushed out next.
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Oct 21, 2015 21:03
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Well, I don't know if my post was intelligent and full of effort but I suppose it was more than what typically goes on in here these days. Whatever the case, it does seem quite clear that each little revision here or there to make the combat more "deep" has fallen short and was not well received by this thread. Starbound really doesn't look like a game that needs super deep and punishing combat, that would be more something I would expect out of say Signs of Life. (disclaimer, never played that and I may be pulling that comparison out of my rear end, but it looks like that game was more built to support such complexity.) And as for the farming and jacking up the tedium by massive amount a while back, I would be ok with this if there was eventually automated or high tech solutions to bring automatic farming back to the way it once was. And I guess that's what I think Starbound should've been all about the whole time, where it's ok to be overpowered and have lots of obtained quality of life tech at your disposal, but working up from the bottom and scrapping together whatever you can before you can get to that sort of state, and the alpha had a pretty good feeling of this as it was. Everyone was actually having fun, playing online, following each other and playing various tunes thanks to the .abc files system. It had potential, potential is what sold this game after all, and sitting here nearly 2 years later I don't see much but cutbacks and abandoning of the original ideas, and just making things harder for the sake of it without introducing something to counter the inconvenience to incentivize progressing further. It's supposed to be a sandbox, and a somewhat fun one at that. And of course the way the progression flowed needed to be expanded or perhaps not made such of a weird grind. Like for example, let's farm materials for hours to construct some large battle machine, from scratch, so we could... destroy it to obtain a component it had inside? Why'd we mess with building the rest of the drat thing in the first place, then? Mediocrity Goggles fucked around with this message at 21:35 on Oct 21, 2015 |
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Oct 21, 2015 21:16
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i mean i kinda see the rationale behind some of the design decisions w/r/t adding a sense of progression to the game; when the first few versions hit there really wasn't anything to do aside from explore planets and build poo poo so it was basically minecraft in space. progression actually gives you a reason to play it for more than an hour or two before you get bored of seeing the same biomes over and over. the issue with it is the progression they did implement is just unfun as poo poo and offers no guidance to what you need to do. it's been a few months since i played but i remember having to just google the poo poo out of where to go to find the obscure items i needed to complete quest. looking at what future quests needed just to unlock the ability to go to a slightly different-looking world made me go "gently caress that poo poo" and I deleted the game. add to that the fact that instead of improving quality of life on things they have actively sought to make it worse and it just feels like starbound is punishing you rather than rewarding you for playing it. look, chucklefish, instead of adding creepers from minecraft or prettier backgrounds why don't you actually look at the core of your loving game and realize you need to overhaul the poo poo out of it so it's actually fun?
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Oct 21, 2015 21:22
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oddium posted:
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Oct 21, 2015 21:35
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(2012)
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Mediocrity Goggles posted:Well, I don't know if my post was intelligent and full of effort but I suppose it was more than what typically goes on in here these days. Whatever the case, it does seem quite clear that each little revision here or there to make the combat more "deep" has fallen short and was not well received by this thread. Starbound really doesn't look like a game that needs super deep and punishing combat, that would be more something I would expect out of say Signs of Life. (disclaimer, never played that and I may be pulling that comparison out of my rear end, but it looks like that game was more built to support such complexity.) And as for the farming and jacking up the tedium by massive amount a while back, I would be ok with this if there was eventually automated or high tech solutions to bring automatic farming back to the way it once was. I just don't agree with that view. Go and seriously watch some footage and compare the game 2 years ago, to what we have now. Sure, not everything we have now is polished or in a state with which we're happy with, but it's night and day to what was there before. I do agree that the combat just hasn't been hitting the mark, you know it. And we've known that. It's been a weak point in the game for a while, and there's been a few attempts to improve it along the way while the rest of the game saw improvements. This update we're working on is the first time we're directly focused on tackling how combat works. It's not just about changing a few monster attacks, or weapons. You really have to spend time on every part of it, and we're dedicating that time now. robodex posted:i mean i kinda see the rationale behind some of the design decisions w/r/t adding a sense of progression to the game; when the first few versions hit there really wasn't anything to do aside from explore planets and build poo poo so it was basically minecraft in space. progression actually gives you a reason to play it for more than an hour or two before you get bored of seeing the same biomes over and over. Progression is incredibly important to the game. And it does give players a sense of direction or purpose to what would otherwise be a straight sandbox. The current progression isn't final, it's something that we've been working towards the last few updates, and the quests you have to do right now are artificial placeholders to keep some sort of progression intact. Right now it's in a limbo state where it's getting overhauled, but not all of those pieces are there yet. I definitely share your frustration on that front, because they are a little jarring right now. Kernel Monsoon fucked around with this message at 21:43 on Oct 21, 2015 |
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Oct 21, 2015 21:36
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Supernorn posted:I just don't agree with that view. Go and seriously watch some footage and compare the game 2 years ago, to what we have now. Sure, not everything we have now is polished or in a state with which we're happy with, but it's night and day to what was there before. I do agree that the combat just hasn't been hitting the mark, you know it. And we've known that. It's been a weak point in the game for a while, and there's been a few attempts to improve it along the way while the rest of the game saw improvements. This update we're working on is the first time we're directly focused on tackling how combat works. It's not just about changing a few monster attacks, or weapons. You really have to spend time on every part of it, and we're dedicating that time now. Granted, yes, I've been glazing over the polishing and other features that have gone in over that time, and mainly just focused on core combat and progression. Admittedly, I cannot give an accurate read on how progression now works and have only been going on hearsay from the thread in what little there was to glean such information from.
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Oct 21, 2015 21:44
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literally just make combat like terraria's and make progression like terraria's and just make it terraria thx u
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Oct 21, 2015 21:45
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Turtlicious posted:Who here actually has said anything besides how bad starbound is? I like to read the feedback about the game to get a sense of what people want to see improved, and for the most part it lines up with the stuff we're working on or want to see improved ourselves. This thread is by far the harshest towards the game. That doesn't mean anyone here is wrong, there's just not a lot of useful criticism or feedback to be gleaned from it that hasn't already been said. And most of it is poo poo posting, let's be honest here. A lot of the posts i'd consider feedback are about the core game, but that isn't an overnight fix or improvement because that's not just one feature. That's the result of how everything works together. And some of it is waiting on things that are unfinished, or don't exist yet. That's the nature of an early access game unfortunately. Making 20 million dollars on a thing doesn't mean much if the thing comes out bad. I think we can all agree on that.
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Oct 21, 2015 22:03
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Supernorn posted:A lot of the posts i'd consider feedback are about the core game, but that isn't an overnight fix it's been 3+ years
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Oct 21, 2015 22:18
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if you had someone who'd never heard of starbound sit down and play the very first original release and also had them play the most up-to-date release i seriously doubt they could tell which one came out three years after the other
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Oct 21, 2015 22:26
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Magmarashi posted:To be fair, it is the community manager's job to touch the poop, and she was driven off a long time ago i like that the community manager couldnt handle managing the community and now does nothing. sweet gig.
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Oct 21, 2015 22:30
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Kly posted:i like that the community manager couldnt handle managing the community and now does nothing. sweet gig. There is a community outside of SA
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Oct 21, 2015 22:33
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which is also ignored unless theyre fawning over whatever new minor addition has been made to the game.
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Oct 21, 2015 23:00
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There is so much cool stuff in Starbound, but so much of it just keeps getting layered and layred in more hurdles rather than improvements. I loved setting up farms on my home base, swinging by every so often to harvest a ton of ingredients and quickly replant them. It also helped that shoveling banana breads down my throat was the most efficient means of healing myself from "Even with impervium armor (best at the time), I lose a lot of health fast". Then they add potion sickness. We don't like the extra hurdles, their forums rejoice in "Immersion". But at least I can set up my jumbo farms to come back to between trips to other planets. Then later still, they make it so you have to water things multiple times to grow it at all. So even if you did set up some automated system that actually worked instead of ruining the crops, THAT wouldn't work if you were on a diffrent planet. Which is where you are 90% of the time in starbound, exploring other planets instead of sitting in your base watching stuff grow. We don't like the extra hurdles, their forums gush over "Immersion". Like, every time I've gone back to Starbound has been like that. "Well, at least I can still-oh they added another layer of steps to slow that down." All while combat remains as rocket tag as ever. "Oh cool, Supernorn just told the thread they are going to make the energy system more forgiving!... Oh, instead the Starbound site revealed that if you use up all your energy, it locks down and won't fill up. The opposite of more forgiving... Aaaand their comment section adores it."
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Oct 21, 2015 23:08
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Reddits and official forums are usually trash, of course if you're chucklefish then they probably offer the desired hugbox experience but anyone else should be wary of taking advice from the people who post on official forums. Lol a valley without wind
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Oct 21, 2015 23:11
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I also liked being able to plant a zillion trees so I could cut them down between trips for sustainable jumbo log cabin complex materials. So the farming changes put a serious dent in not only practical access survival options that don't need vines or pixels or drops or crafting sand and metal into needles (via food, which already has potion sickness slapped on), but also my main building material of choice without having to clear cut a dozen planets for the same amount of wood I could previously plant on my lawn, then cut down as it grew while I was exploring other worlds. The Minecraft Experience takes place on a single world, a big one, but still a single world. Trying to implement "Sit and watch your garden" mechanics in a planet hopping game... doesn't really mesh unless your entire desire is to sit watching plants slowly grow as you water them on location in the first place. Instead of coming home to see the effort you took to set up a forest and farm pay off after another long trip on a lava filled hellhole across the galaxy to get the ore for your next armor tier.
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Oct 21, 2015 23:18
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How is this thread not dead, especially when the game is.
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Oct 21, 2015 23:28
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Necrofelia
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Oct 22, 2015 00:20
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i actually do still think that maybe one day the game could be fun. i'm just gonna laugh about it for 2 more years until it gets there.
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Oct 22, 2015 00:21
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Oct 22, 2015 04:11
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Section Z posted:So the farming changes put a serious dent in not only practical access survival options that don't need vines or pixels or drops or crafting sand and metal into needles (via food, which already has potion sickness slapped on), but also my main building material of choice without having to clear cut a dozen planets for the same amount of wood I could previously plant on my lawn, then cut down as it grew while I was exploring other worlds. are you saying that player planted trees no longer grow with being watered or what? this sentence is a mess so maybe i'm misunderstanding, but that is a real bad change if true.
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Oct 22, 2015 05:22
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Sloppy Milkshake posted:are you saying that player planted trees no longer grow with being watered or what? this sentence is a mess so maybe i'm misunderstanding, but that is a real bad change if true. I admit I had not personally tested with trees, figuring that as they were something you had to plant, they would fall under planting rules. But a quick google and seems that for the moment, saplings do not need watering. So that is something at least. Shame about not being able to just plow through dozens of food plants of multiple types and just leaving the seeds to be fully grown by the time you return from off planet. Section Z fucked around with this message at 06:45 on Oct 22, 2015 |
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Oct 22, 2015 06:43
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Oct 22, 2015 07:51
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Oct 22, 2015 09:13
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I don't disagree with what's been said, pretty much seems to be hitting it on the nail for me. Me and a couple of other friends played it at launch for a while before getting bored and waiting to see how it improved. We then played it again at one of the big stable releases a few months back. All of us found that it was pretty much just less fun, it's one of the few games I've seen actively go backwards. There's hints of good stuff.. like, the expanded quest system seemed quite nice at first. But then you hit the gates. And after spending a couple of hours trying to find oil or silver to make a spoon for a cup of coffee, thoroughly pissed off with that bit. Pretty much every change that I see mentioned (admittedly, on here, so perhaps a bit biased in information), seems to be just adding more annoying grind without any added fun. While it may be disheartening to come in and see a lot of the shitposting that does indeed happen for fun, doesn't change the fact that every legitimate post with complaints has been absolutely correct, and has been for years, so it feels a bit out of order to claim we're all just negative or whatnot. Also, disregarding all the valid complaints and criticisms that have already been said? That should kinda be a warning sign if people are still saying them after a year or two without any fixes. Those are the things you should be paying most attention too I'd have thought
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