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Koramei posted:
Soviet tank dudes pooped in a shell and flung it out of the hatch in combat. The Germans (at least the PzIII) had a luxurious toilet hole in the bottom of the tank, complete with padded seat so you're not sitting on metal while you poop. A Soviet tanker report from Khalkin-Gol requests a waist height tube to pee into, I don't know if that feature was ever implemented. As for sleeping, you're barely on your feet by the end of the day, some people fell asleep while still upright. I don't think falling asleep was a problem.
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Oct 21, 2015 20:08
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Arquinsiel posted:^^^^ Well, a "cut and thrust" can also mean curved cavalry sabre from the 1800's since they had sharp point and could and did run dudes through, just not AS easily as a straight sword. But yeah Patton's is basically a rapier type blade on a basket hilt and is essentially a short lance. Patton himself even says he does not expect a soldier using it to try and defend himself with it, just stick the other guy on the end and then ride away. You could give someone superficial cuts that would create an opening but you are not opening them up or lopping limbs off like other swords could. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bee71tYERBw
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Oct 21, 2015 20:09
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Koramei posted:Pooping stuff. I know that Seehund (the German midget subs) crews took a poo poo in an empty ration box and shoved it as far forward as they could because it was colder there (so it wouldnt smell as bad as putting in in the back where the engine was). Although being on an amphetamine bender for a few days probably helped with not pooping, as I know from experience. Don't modern MRE's have constipating properties to combat Combat Pooping?
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Oct 21, 2015 20:40
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Molentik posted:Don't modern MRE's have constipating properties to combat Combat Pooping? I thought it was inadvertent and combined with nobody really wanting to take a combat deuce.
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Oct 21, 2015 20:42
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Sheridan is a cute little tank that shares the name with my favorite TV charcter, so I love it to aluminum bits. As for the raging anti-semite, I doubt many people say that they venerate Patton for his great achievements in hating Jews. Most everyone in the past had objectionable traits, and we have ones that will be objectionable in the future. Even the saints have sinned, and general likely doubly so. Plus, you can always compare your favorite historical person to Dirlewanger and come out on top  Wanger related:  EDIT: Generation Kill - I should get around to having read more than war book - make it look like anyone poops any time they think they can. Call it combat dump and stuff.
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Oct 21, 2015 20:44
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^^^^ To be fair, there's an element of Brad Colbert earning the name "Iceman" for just poopin' when he wants to, war or no war. Koramei posted:The guy in that video says you use it like a lance, holding it out in front with the point ahead of you to skewer people with. WoodrowSkillson posted:Well, a "cut and thrust" can also mean curved cavalry sabre from the 1800's since they had sharp point and could and did run dudes through, just not AS easily as a straight sword.
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Oct 21, 2015 20:59
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Arquinsiel posted:
Give up and go home in a duel, yes. On a battlefield you need to do enough damage that he cannot fight anymore, and people can survive pretty grievous wounds long enough to still kill you. But yeah, you open up a quarter inch deep cut on someones forearm, odds are if you know what you are doing you can then take advantage of that to kill them, and you may have severed tendons/muscles that makes that arm less useful/useless. However if you end up in a situation like Matt talks about in that video where you panic and just start slashing at someone, those superficial cuts may not stop them from running you through or chopping off your arm.
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Oct 21, 2015 21:24
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WoodrowSkillson posted:Give up and go home in a duel, yes. On a battlefield you need to do enough damage that he cannot fight anymore, and people can survive pretty grievous wounds long enough to still kill you. It all depends on the person, their mental state, and god knows what else. There are tons of examples from every kind of military you can shake a stick at of people both collapsing into a catatonic heap from the most superficial of wounds and continuing to fight with multiple fatal injuries.
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Oct 21, 2015 21:33
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WoodrowSkillson posted:Give up and go home in a duel, yes. On a battlefield you need to do enough damage that he cannot fight anymore, and people can survive pretty grievous wounds long enough to still kill you.
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Oct 21, 2015 21:33
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Arquinsiel posted:I'm not sure if it was ever used in any school outside of Olympic sabre, but a common cut there is one where you start with the blade vertical in front of you, then raise it and slash directly down at your opponent's forehead. If you manage to do that to someone with a real sword the chances of you killing them are pretty slim. The chances of them being blinded by blood and generally making GBS threads their pants from the "OH GOD MY HEAD" are solid though. That's a cut with a depth measured in millimetres and it's a fight-winner. The back of the wrist is similarly vulnerable, as are the fingers. You hit someone in the forehead, you pretty much just won, because unless they are superman, you just knocked them senseless on top of making them bleed like a stuck pig, and if you are using something like a tulwar or broadsword, may just cleave off a part of their skull.
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Oct 21, 2015 21:36
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We're talking sabres though, so it's a relatively light blade that'll bonk off the skull. It's probably not actually a move possible with anything that isn't specifically designed to be that light either.
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Oct 21, 2015 21:41
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HEY GAL posted:that looks like good sword ideas, to me. huh Roman Von Ungern-Sternberg. Dude thought he was the reincarnation of Genghis Khan, probably smoked the L (okay, that one's on me), and killed liutenants left and right because they didn't get on his crazytrain to new-buddhist/shamanic-khanate town fast enough - and still fought well enough to win a load of battles. Tias fucked around with this message at 21:45 on Oct 21, 2015 |
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Oct 21, 2015 21:42
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Arquinsiel posted:Superficial cuts are enough to make most people give up and decide to go home. Even comparatively minor hits are as good as crippling when you think of people as complex systems of levers and pulleys and not bags of hit points. I took two strikes from a Nylon broadsword in one area on the leg and fell over. I'd say a steel sword would put anyone out of combat permanently. Unless they were armoured, it doesn't take much to incapacitate an unarmoured opponent. Hazzard fucked around with this message at 21:55 on Oct 21, 2015 |
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Oct 21, 2015 21:45
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Arquinsiel posted:We're talking sabres though, so it's a relatively light blade that'll bonk off the skull. It's probably not actually a move possible with anything that isn't specifically designed to be that light either. a lot of cavalry sabres from the 17-1800s can lop off parts of your body, especially like a 1796 english cavalry sabre. 
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Oct 21, 2015 21:52
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the saber is a pretty heavy blade, comparatively
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Oct 21, 2015 21:55
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Molentik posted:Don't modern MRE's have constipating properties to combat Combat Pooping? Nope. Digestion problems on both sides of the scale (from constipation to diarrhea) were attributed by soldiers to their MREs, but testing found that it was more commonly related to poop shyness on a battlefield, failure to eat their MREs properly (throwing out or trading stuff they didn't want), and consuming tons of protein shakes and similar to get jacked. There's a very long tradition of soldiers all over the world hating their rations, but MREs taste no worse (and sometimes better) than typical commercial canned or frozen food. Slavvy posted:I remember reading a few years ago about certain types of cold war light tanks which trended toward large caliber, low velocity cannons that shot ATGM's for anti-armour duty and were intended for infantry support. I'm assuming IFV's are meant to fill that role now? Does anyone anywhere field any kind of light tank as we would think of it anymore? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9gQssASXlew This is a BMD-1 in battle in Ukraine. It's technically classified as an amphibious airborne IFV, but it has a 73mm smoothbore low-velocity gun that's essentially an SPG-9 recoilless rifle in the form of a tank cannon and they're sorta like a Cold War take on the light tank. This particular one takes two RPG hits during the filming, and the ending of the video has them going around the outside showing where it was hit. Some donated improvised slat armor from civilians before they left for battle successfully detonated at least one of the RPGs before impact, saving them from penetration. The company formerly known as Cadillac Gage also made a modern light tank called the Stingray, but it was only accepted by Thailand. They have a little over 100 now. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SSOQn3h5nAA
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Oct 21, 2015 22:16
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About sabres, what are the last known battles where sabres were used in combat? I have read that there were some clashes in 1962 between Indonesian paratroopers and Dutch Marines in West New Guinea where Klewangs (Dutch version of an Indonesian sabre) were used in hand to hand combat, but I'd like to know if there are later examples of those kind of clashes.
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Oct 21, 2015 23:41
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Molentik posted:About sabres, what are the last known battles where sabres were used in combat? I have read that there were some clashes in 1962 between Indonesian paratroopers and Dutch Marines in West New Guinea where Klewangs (Dutch version of an Indonesian sabre) were used in hand to hand combat, but I'd like to know if there are later examples of those kind of clashes. Given what else has been seen in Syria, I would not be surprised if the answer is "Today." Civil wars are like that, folks fight with what they have on hand and if that means they're breaking the glass case and fighting with great-great-great Grandpa's Ottoman-era saber then so be it.
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Oct 21, 2015 23:46
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100 Years Ago For some strange reason I've found it more appealing recently to work for pretty much 36 hours solid on a ridiculous video for the internet than to provide a true and accurate recounting of the Third Battle of the Isonzo. New this time around for the autumn campaigning season: Italian politicians threatening to make trouble for the Prime Minister about this quick victory he was promising in April, slight progress on Mount Mrzli, an attempt to fight a serious battle in a location known as "Six Holes Mountain", all men to be issued with bicycles, miniature, transportation of fish, pets, for the use of. Same as last time: officers armed with swords, foul weather, General Cadorna, Austro-Hungarians using such nefarious and unsporting defensive tactics as "rolling heavy and/or explosive items downhill in the general direction of the enemy". (No winners this time on Takeshi's Castle.). Meanwhile, Serbian refugees are flooding out of the country in the wake of the increasingly-vicious invaders (and, just as importantly, the equally unpleasant garrison troops, of whom more if anyone ever cares to write properly about it in English), and I suddenly realise that I may be repeating an already-used Bernard Adams story about nothing of importance in the rear, but my brain is far too far gone for that sort of thing. Koramei posted:e: relatedly, how do people cope with sleep in a warzone? you don't want your soldiers just keeling over out of exhaustion every time they close their eyes, but I'd expect a lot of people have trouble sleeping at a scheduled time when they feel like they're in danger? Many millions of words have been written about this sort of thing, but it basically boils down to this. One of two things happen. Either you get used to it, or you become a casualty of some sort. Somewhere in Louis Barthas's book there's stories of him being assigned to regular rear-area billets that were within about fifty yards of a French heavy howitzer battery with strict orders to maintain harassing fire on the enemy 24/7 (or, at least, those parts of 24/7 that do not include lunch and shouting for no reason at the common or garden crapaud); the old sweats lie down and get on with it, rookies barely get any sleep and, evicted from whatever shelter they've been given this time (a man not sleeping in his billet is wasting space that could more profitably be occupied by Private Crapouillard's fat arse or Corporal Honhonhon's bony elbows) end up serving on every working-party within twenty miles. (Suggestions that Private Crapouillard is in fact having serious sleeping difficulties but has the simple common sense to continue lying down, which he attempts to cover for by affecting a comic snore, are of course highly uncharitable.) For some reason people tend to nod knowingly at this sort of thing and mutter "ah yes, habitation and adaptation" to this sort of thing while remaining stunnned that particularly exhausted soldiers have been known to fall asleep at their posts while under direct fire, with only a 50-50 chance of responding first time to the traditional prisoner greeting of a poke in the arse courtesy of someone's bayonet. To tie it back into your first question, fighting off sleep deprivation is rather like getting a bad case of the trots, you can hold it back for a surprisingly long time if you're forced, but the eventual result will not be a pretty sight. Trin Tragula fucked around with this message at 01:14 on Oct 22, 2015 |
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Oct 21, 2015 23:49
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To be fair to Patton, a saber wouldn't be completely ineffective in all cavalry engagements of his time. If, for instance, you were conducting a cavalry charge on a shantytown full of unarmed families, or something like that, a saber would be plenty useful. That's just a hypothetical I came up with somehow, though.
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Oct 21, 2015 23:53
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FAUXTON posted:I thought it was inadvertent and combined with nobody really wanting to take a combat deuce. The real challenge is finding someone who wants to take a combat jack. 
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Oct 22, 2015 00:19
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FAUXTON posted:Given what else has been seen in Syria, I would not be surprised if the answer is "Today." Civil wars are like that, folks fight with what they have on hand and if that means they're breaking the glass case and fighting with great-great-great Grandpa's Ottoman-era saber then so be it. Did some Googling and I guess you're right!  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abu_Azrael 
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Oct 22, 2015 00:35
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Molentik posted:Did some Googling and I guess you're right!  That's some Cormac McCarthy poo poo.
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Oct 22, 2015 00:41
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FAUXTON posted:
How about Jack Churchill? 
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Oct 22, 2015 01:42
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chitoryu12 posted:Nope. Digestion problems on both sides of the scale (from constipation to diarrhea) were attributed by soldiers to their MREs, but testing found that it was more commonly related to poop shyness on a battlefield, failure to eat their MREs properly (throwing out or trading stuff they didn't want), and consuming tons of protein shakes and similar to get jacked. There's a very long tradition of soldiers all over the world hating their rations, but MREs taste no worse (and sometimes better) than typical commercial canned or frozen food. I see, so I guess 'light tanks' became 'air droppable IFV's' pretty smoothly. Is that something anyone still practices? Parachute dropping vehicles I mean.
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Oct 22, 2015 02:17
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The first rule of winter warfare is if you don't poo poo you die.
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Oct 22, 2015 02:59
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Throatwarbler posted:The first rule of winter warfare is if you don't poo poo you die. Explain please for this swamp-inhabitant.
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Oct 22, 2015 03:04
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Molentik posted:Explain please for this swamp-inhabitant. When it's -40 degrees outside making GBS threads kind of sucks, so you start putting it off but you really shouldn't.
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Oct 22, 2015 03:09
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chitoryu12 posted:How about Jack Churchill? Churchill ain't got poo poo on Bill Millin.
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Oct 22, 2015 03:16
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chitoryu12 posted:How about Jack Churchill? Man, I never realized that the World Archery Championships were so hard core.
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Oct 22, 2015 03:22
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going to the biggest 30yw reenactment in europe, see y'all fuckers in four or five days
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Oct 22, 2015 05:48
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Throatwarbler posted:When it's -40 degrees outside making GBS threads kind of sucks, so you start putting it off but you really shouldn't. You'll be carrying x number of pounds of mass that your body needs to heat up to body temp
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Oct 22, 2015 05:56
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HEY GAL posted:going to the biggest 30yw reenactment in europe, see y'all fuckers in four or five days Try not to piss off Wallenstein
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Oct 22, 2015 06:08
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So what's the proper response to somebody rejecting all soviet/russian sources as "propaganda" in an argument on the internet? Flip the table and leave?
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Oct 22, 2015 06:49
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T___A posted:Not true at all. The only thing the T-72 and T-64 share in common is the gun. The finished T-72 doesn't share much parts commonality, that's true, but i was specifically talking about the prototypes, ie the Objekt 172 who started as a T-64 with a different engine and suspension.
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Oct 22, 2015 07:02
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Polikarpov posted:So what's the proper response to somebody rejecting all soviet/russian sources as "propaganda" in an argument on the internet? Flip the table and leave? Counter by writing off all US sources as capitalist lies.
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Oct 22, 2015 07:14
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Grand Prize Winner posted:Counter by writing off all US sources as capitalist lies. Wouldn't work, this guy is peak wehraboo. I should probably just drop a link to Ensign Expendable's blogpost about tiger kill #s and moonwalk out.
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Oct 22, 2015 07:15
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Kafouille posted:The finished T-72 doesn't share much parts commonality, that's true, but i was specifically talking about the prototypes, ie the Objekt 172 who started as a T-64 with a different engine and suspension.
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Oct 22, 2015 07:18
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Arquinsiel posted:We're talking sabres though, so it's a relatively light blade that'll bonk off the skull. It's probably not actually a move possible with anything that isn't specifically designed to be that light either. My understanding is that most olympic fencing is all based on the smallsword. Have you done any HEMA? My fencing mask has a huge dent on the forehead from a high speed flick of the wrist. I've talked to people who picked up broken wrists and shattered fingertips over the years.
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Oct 22, 2015 07:30
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Koramei posted:Poop and sleep stuff For WWII (and some WWI) stuff, going by what memoirs I have of soldiers on the front, pooping was at a latrine/designated area if you're fighting in trenches. For foxholes, it depends: How badly do you need to go and what is the current combat situation? Band of Brothers had a segment where the characters relieve some infantry in foxholes and discovered they simply poo poo and pissed in a corner. As for sleep, you end up getting used to the various sounds of weapons happening around you. In trenches, you'd go back to your hideout and sleep on some straw. In foxholes, you just sleep in a corner while your buddy is on watch duty.
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Oct 22, 2015 09:32
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