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I mean if we were going infinite cash then I'd actually start looking at something like this: Aleph────────────────────────────────────────────────── Group 1   9  0  0 DEVA Lieutenant (G: Synchronized) Combi Rifle, Nanopulser+Devabot / Pistol, Knife. (27)  DEVABOT Heavy Flamethrower / Electric Pulse. (4) THAMYRIS Hacker (Hacking Device) Marker, Nanopulser / Assault Pistol, Knife. (0.5 | 25) DAKINI Tacbot MULTI Sniper Rifle / Electric Pulse. (1.5 | 21) DAKINI Tacbot Combi Rifle / Electric Pulse. (13) DAKINI Tacbot Combi Rifle / Electric Pulse. (13) DAKINI Tacbot Combi Rifle / Electric Pulse. (13) NETROD Electric Pulse. (4) NETROD Electric Pulse. (4) NETROD Electric Pulse. (4)2 SWC | 124 Points Open with Army 5 But that's not exactly fiscally reasonable. spectralent posted:I've got the netrods but yeah. The Asura is just incredibly expensive at low point levels, especially for a faction without cheap troopers to partially compensate. I've seen Asuras do awesome things, but that's when you're getting at least 200 points to work with, if not the full 300. Corbeau fucked around with this message at 01:38 on Oct 21, 2015 |
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Oct 21, 2015 01:36
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Corbeau posted:I mean if we were going infinite cash then I'd actually start looking at something like this: You dont need that 401k anyway. You do however, need this.
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Oct 21, 2015 01:38
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Part of the issue is that buying stuff just for low-point games is not a great plan in the long run, since you'll end up playing far more ~300pt games and won't necessarily want the same budget tools that you do in low point games. Sometimes it's okay though; I'd consider a Myrmidon box to be a great buy that scales excellently.
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Oct 21, 2015 01:42
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Yeah, I don't know if I've ever seen an ALEPH list that didn't have a gently caress-ton of Myrmidons. The ZoC "abuse" is as follows: model A is in ZoC of model B, but not in LoF. Model A expends an order, the first part of which is Idle or Movement or whatever. As soon as this order is declared, model B MUST declare his ARO (because Model A is not a camo marker, so B cannot delay). But because A is still out of LoF, the only ARO B can declare is either Reset or Change Facing. Model A can then execute the second half of his order (which could be to move into base-to-base contact with Model B without having to risk getting shot as he approaches). Where this can get really nasty is if the thing blocking LoF is smoke (a zero-visibility zone) and Model A has MSV2. So Model A has LoF to Model B, but not vice-versa. So the second half of B's order can be to make a BS Attack and there's jack (and poo poo) Model B can do about it except Change Facing. Now, that said, Change Facing works like Dodge, only with a -3 modifier. So it's not like Model B is totally screwed, it just means he can't shoot back. That's what people mean by "no risk" - no risk of Model A dying due to ARO. Model A might miss, Model B might still dodge, or even get hit and pass an ARM roll or whatever. It's not the "instant and risk free death sentence" that people make it out to be. It's also REALLY loving specific - you have to be within the other model's ZoC and you have to be out of its LoF. If your opponent isn't completely asleep at the wheel, this can actually be kind of a pain to pull off, because even if Model B isn't getting a useful ARO, another of his supporting models might. And even if you manage to do that, the enemy model always gets a chance to Change Facing (which remember is a Dodge at -3). Further, when using it to get into close-combat, you actually end up burning an extra order to do it (because instead of your order being Move+CC, your order is Idle+Move, then you have to burn ANOTHER order to make a CC attack). So not only is it not guaranteed, it's an inefficient use of orders. In other words, it's kind of hard to pull off, not super effective, and not nearly as "abusive" as people make it out to be. A much nastier thing is to bring on Van Zant from your opponent's own board edge, then use his AP Rifle in the +3 range band from outside an opponent's LoF and ZoC. In that situation, there is NOTHING the opposing model(s) can do except make an ARM roll. That's why you make sure your cheerleaders and rear-guard troops cover your backfield - because having ANY trooper have LoF on him gives everyone else at least the ability to Change Facing through the Alert ARO. Ilor fucked around with this message at 05:01 on Oct 21, 2015 |
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Oct 21, 2015 04:59
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Im going to be running the Infinity RPG quickstart on Saturday. The people playing will be a mix of infinity veterans and noobies. Any tips on how to run the quickstart?
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Oct 21, 2015 07:00
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That ZoC "abuse" just sound like the active player being rewarded for out flanking his opponent. If you get snuck up on from behind you don't deserve the full options of reactions IMO.
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Oct 21, 2015 07:11
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Not a viking posted:That ZoC "abuse" just sound like the active player being rewarded for out flanking his opponent. If you get snuck up on from behind you don't deserve the full options of reactions IMO. Eh its more like this. Unit A is facing forward, Enemy unit B is around the corner and within 8". Enemy Unit B declares idle, Unit A has to declare an ARO (unless they have sixth sense, or if Unit B has stealth, so uhh camo units can't do this). Unit B then declares his second skill as move and goes around the corner and gets into CC with Unit A. Its not really flanking, just finding a sneaky loop hole. I don't know if its abusive or not, I haven't encountered it before.
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Oct 21, 2015 07:30
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Yeah, if you're actually flanking then you just shoot the guy in the back rather than playing around with ZoC fuckery.
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Oct 21, 2015 07:38
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Ilor posted:A much nastier thing is to bring on Van Zant from your opponent's own board edge, then use his AP Rifle in the +3 range band from outside an opponent's LoF and ZoC. In that situation, there is NOTHING the opposing model(s) can do except make an ARM roll. Wait what? Surely being shot in the back allows you to always change facing at -3 PH in N3? Are you saying that only applies to templates or attacks from within ZoC?
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Oct 21, 2015 10:35
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Someone explain Tactical Jump to me. How does it work, and is Van Zant crazy good because of it?
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Oct 21, 2015 10:46
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Exmond posted:Eh its more like this. Ah, ok now I get it. Yeah, I can see how that could be considered wonky and not in the "spirit" of the rule set/game. Maybe allow a "Delay" ARO for models within 8", but outside LoF like you do vs camo markers?
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Oct 21, 2015 10:53
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Ilor posted:ZOC trickery So basically, most of it is people getting PTSD from 2ed ZOC bullshit? DJ Dizzy posted:Someone explain Tactical Jump to me. How does it work, and is Van Zant crazy good because of it? Tactical Jump is AD2 with two things going for it: - you can coordinate the jump with other AD1/2 units and deploy a whole group at once - alternatively, Van Zant can enter through the opponent's back table edge, which is something few people will expect.
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Oct 21, 2015 11:52
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Genghis Cohen posted:Wait what? Surely being shot in the back allows you to always change facing at -3 PH in N3? Are you saying that only applies to templates or attacks from within ZoC? You do not get an ARO if the shot is outside of your ZOC and outside your LOF.
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Oct 21, 2015 14:30
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So I walked into a shop in London this afternoon (Dark Sphere) to pick up an X-wing model, as I was in town. The girl at the till was entering a new delivery into the store's system, the Mobile Brigada box. I . . . I was weak. Exmond posted:You do not get an ARO if the shot is outside of your ZOC and outside your LOF. Hmm, good to see the game still rewards good flanking in those cases. It seems like it is usually much easier to flank a model by walking, say, a shotgun infiltrator round a building to get behind them than to genuinely develop your models until you are behind the enemy at a distance.
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Oct 21, 2015 16:00
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Genghis Cohen posted:So I walked into a shop in London this afternoon (Dark Sphere) to pick up an X-wing model, as I was in town. The girl at the till was entering a new delivery into the store's system, the Mobile Brigada box. I . . . I was weak
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Oct 21, 2015 16:26
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Oh, don't think the news has made it's way to this forum yet, but we're getting the Seraph and Guijia shown as new releases this month (but the Domaru box is getting pushed back, probably to November). It's TAG-month!
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Oct 21, 2015 16:32
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I was meant to post that last night but hey wine > you guys Yeah, it's TAG month for Christmas!
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Oct 21, 2015 16:39
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Flipswitch posted:was she cute? the Mbs are at least Very happy with the MBs. She looked about like you'd expect a woman who works in a miniatures shop to look (not a sexist comment, as all the blokes shopping/working there resembled troglodytes as well, and I'm no oil painting)
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Oct 21, 2015 16:51
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Genghis Cohen posted:Wait what? Surely being shot in the back allows you to always change facing at -3 PH in N3? Are you saying that only applies to templates or attacks from within ZoC? But in actuality, these kinds of shenanigans are really hard to pull off against an opponent who knows anything about Airborne Deployment. A good opponent will have one or more cheap troops watching the backfield corners/board edges to keep this sort of thing from happening (either using their ARO to shoot your AD trooper as they enter, or using it to Alert everyone else to turn around, such that the AD trooper's next action is opposed and probably fatal). The ZoC "abuse" thing is the same. Mostly it's people making mountains out of mole-hills, like how "crits destroy the game", or "Total Reaction bots are game-changingly over-powered," (never mind that every time I bring one it gets blasted to smithereens) and (my personal favorite) "un-targetable Tin-bots are worth rage-quitting over."
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Oct 21, 2015 18:23
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So I was gonna build one of each of these drones except the cheap one, the R Drone but I'm not sure how much I'll rum GMLs so may just go double M Drone, thoughts?
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Oct 21, 2015 20:05
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Ilor posted:(my personal favorite) "un-targetable Tin-bots are worth rage-quitting over." LOL, I saw that. Absolutely hilarious. I remember reading some tip about Infinity when I was picking it up in N2 - "every good trick and tactic in the game is overpowered when it's used against you for the first time". Basically there are a lot of Infinity tactics that are super-effective, its just knowing how to counter them, having the tools to do it, having some tricks of your own up-sleeve, etc. What I do like about the game as well though, is even the best plan can usually go wrong through freak luck - that's when you need to think quick and have a plan B. Flipswitch posted:So I was gonna build one of each of these drones except the cheap one, the R Drone but I'm not sure how much I'll rum GMLs so may just go double M Drone, thoughts? Can you magnetise the bits or are they too small/integral? If it helps, no-one can identify remote weapons in my experience. I just built my 2 Lunokhod Sputniks - one set is a BS+HFT, one is BS+Akrylat-Kanone (adhesive panzerfaust), but you really do have to be a few inches away to see the difference. So I assembled one of each but fully plan to use them interchangeably (as the HFT one, obviously. It comes with Crazy Koalas!) For your drones, I've not seen the new models in person but if the only identifiable bits are a rifle and a missile tube, just magnetise between those two? If EVO repeater has different parts I would definitely hang on to those as well. No telling how cool they might be come HSN3.
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Oct 21, 2015 20:18
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I can't be arsed with magnetizing when I get such a big discount on them as well, I generally don't like changing the pieces as odd as that sounds.
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Oct 21, 2015 20:20
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Corbeau posted:There's definitely use in bringing cheap units as cheerleaders (and cheap backup specialists, and coverage against airborne deployment/impersonation). With the changes to Suppressive Fire, I think cheap units being dumped into it 4 at a time with 1 coordinated order is a pretty good deal. And regarding covering the back table edge - In infinity, a model has a 180 arc. This makes it trivially easy to deploy in such a manner as to create coverage. If you are still worried about it, drop something with good fire lanes and a 360 visor. I guess I am getting a Seraph, more to just have it then any real thoughts about using it. 83 points is 2 Knight Hospitalier Doctors, for example, or 3 Crusader Brethren with multi rifles coming in from the side of the map or something equally goofy. I just can't justify it. Question: Have Knights of Santiago always been 4-4 or is that new with N3? E: I see ALL knights are 4-4 now, ah. Laphroaig fucked around with this message at 20:50 on Oct 21, 2015 |
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Oct 21, 2015 20:48
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All HI are 4-4 if they're standard now. Don't get too locked into the Seraph as it is changing.
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Oct 21, 2015 20:54
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Flipswitch posted:All HI are 4-4 if they're standard now. Don't get too locked into the Seraph as it is changing. Yeah, I have been making lists that are pretty much sans any HI recently. What do they think they will change with the Seraph? Like I said, I want to buy one primarily to model it and paint it so it can go into formation.
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Oct 21, 2015 21:01
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Its being upped a silhouette size so maybe an increase in armour and BS? it's a bit tricky with PanO because the stuff tends to be kinda vanilla so a lot of it is numbers changes. I'm looking forward to the book though!
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Oct 21, 2015 21:58
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The Seraph as-is isn't worth it's points IMO. Not when we have knights that do the same thing without the vulnerabilities that come with being a TAG. Thing is, upgrading to a full-size TAG will give the Seraph a much more unique niche as part of armor skew (and hopefully ranged heavy weapons - a multi-HMG would be immensely welcome in Spitfire-centric MO). I'll definitely get one just because the model looks amazing from the renders, but I have hopes of fielding it post-HSN3 for a mechanical purpose rather than just because it looks cool.
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Oct 21, 2015 23:08
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Had a real bad game yesterday. This game can really be frustrating when you're new. Just got absolutely loving wrecked by weird rules poo poo. First one. I have 3 dudes hiding behind a building, facing toward the building in my deployment. Opponents reserve model is an infiltrating camo token. He comes around the corner of the building. Since my dudes are in a straight line only 1 can see him. I hold my ARO since he is a camo token. He then keeps moving. Now he is behind my guys and unloads HMG into them. Only ARO I get is change facing at PH-3, and -6 for all the dudes he is shooting. Second one. Have Squalo on top of a building in supressive fire. Opponent moves a grunt unit that is behind the Squalo, but fairly far away. Triggers an ARO from my sniper. I declare shoot. He throws smoke at the base of the building the Squalo is on. This is not a face to face roll I guess? I kill the model, the smoke bomb goes off on the floor, but I guess since they are infinitely high that means the smoke goes up then over the wall of the building to cover the Squalo in smoke making him blind. Felt like neither of these things are remotely possible for a person to see coming who hasn't played the game multiple times. Felt like I didn't lose because of dice, getting outplayed, or not understanding the mission. Just felt like 2 gotchas! couldn't have seen coming with my current knowledge.
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Oct 22, 2015 04:34
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1. Nope, you can draw LoF at any point on the model's move. Your first guy would definitely have had an ARO beyond Change Facing. 2. Smoke is a sphere, not infinitely tall. The radius is consistent both horizontally and on the vertical axis. Using smoke as a Special Dodge is still a face to face if the smoke would have blocked the shot from the sniper.
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Oct 22, 2015 04:52
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1: Actually, you're facing the building your hiding behind? The dudes are standing 6" away from the wall and staring right into it? I think that's something you could have seen coming. <3
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Oct 22, 2015 04:53
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Mugaaz posted:Had a real bad game yesterday. This game can really be frustrating when you're new. Just got absolutely loving wrecked by weird rules poo poo. If you are new you might want to arrange a game with non-camo units. Camo is one of the harder things to get used to and to learn how to counter
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Oct 22, 2015 05:03
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Signal posted:1: Actually, you're facing the building your hiding behind? The dudes are standing 6" away from the wall and staring right into it? I think that's something you could have seen coming. <3 The game has a bit of learning curve and yeah, this is something you try to cut down on as you get more experience. Units in a line are also dangerous as they block off LoS and are just inviting a shotgun/chain rifle to all of them. Still once poo poo like this happens to you once you start learning what not to do in deployment.
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Oct 22, 2015 05:55
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Verr posted:
This is wrong. http://wiki.infinitythegame.com/en/Smoke_Special_Ammunition Smoke Special Ammunition generates a Zero Visibility Zone (see: Special Terrain, Visibility Conditions) the size of a Circular Template and with infinite height.
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Oct 22, 2015 06:21
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This game will absolutely ruin you the first time you encounter any unfamiliar special skill or piece of equipment. That said, it's kind of a dick move to do that stuff to a new player still learning the rules.
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Oct 22, 2015 06:26
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Mugaaz posted:Had a real bad game yesterday. This game can really be frustrating when you're new. Just got absolutely loving wrecked by weird rules poo poo. That said, you've learned a valuable lesson here - don't have your dudes facing their cover. It makes them easy to sneak up on. Similarly, if you've only got one guy who can see an enemy trooper who is in a position to threaten multiple friendly models, you're almost always better off having that guy make an Alert ARO. At least then everybody else will get a chance to react to the enemy's next order. Mugaaz posted:Second one. Have Squalo on top of a building in supressive fire. Opponent moves a grunt unit that is behind the Squalo, but fairly far away. Triggers an ARO from my sniper. I declare shoot. He throws smoke at the base of the building the Squalo is on. This is not a face to face roll I guess? I kill the model, the smoke bomb goes off on the floor, but I guess since they are infinitely high that means the smoke goes up then over the wall of the building to cover the Squalo in smoke making him blind. But essentially it sounds like he sacrificed a cheap dude to smoke out your Squalo for a turn, probably so he could move some other stuff without it getting suppressed. Valid tactic. That said, Corbeau is right; using camo HMGs and edge-case smoke rules on new players is pretty hard-core, and probably not a great way to introduce people to the game.
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Oct 22, 2015 07:35
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Comrade Merf posted:This is wrong. Holy poo poo. My dog warriors just got that much better.
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Oct 22, 2015 07:39
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Ilor posted:What was the -6 for? How close was he to your guys? If he was in their ZoC, they'd have had the chance to Change Facing during his move into position. I believe it would have been -6 because change facing is -3, with a further -3 for FtF ARO against a surprise shot. Camo markers have Stealth, so he would not have the opportunity to Change Facing for a move inside ZoC and outside LoF. Ilor posted:Did the smoke block LoF for the sniper? If so, it would be a FtF with the sniper. If not, the sniper makes a Normal Roll, as does the smoke thrower. But throwing a smoke grenade is a form of BS Attack, so if the smoke template affects another model (in this case, your Squalo), that model gets the the opportunity to Dodge. But because it's smoke, this Dodge attempt is also a Normal Roll. Granted, TAGs get a -6 to Dodge, and if the attack was coming from outside your LoF you'd have tacked another -3 onto that, but you should have at least gotten the chance. This is all correct, bear in mind though that dodging/change facing or anything else which isn't 'shoot' would break the Squalo's Suppressive Fire state. Mugaaz, these are all tricks based on a precise understanding of the rules. Your opponent was maybe a bit of a berk to just spring them on you, if I were playing a new player I would at least have explained as I went into the orders what I was going to do, and probably warned you to not stack up your models in a line behind a building (this is an incredibly common mistake for rookie players to make). On the other hand, that's the guy you want to learn from as those moves both sound like efficient ways to take out models, and he probably understands the game well.
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Oct 22, 2015 10:15
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Corbeau posted:This game will absolutely ruin you the first time you encounter any unfamiliar special skill or piece of equipment. That said, it's kind of a dick move to do that stuff to a new player still learning the rules. The problem with going from playing like 30 or 40 games of N2 into N3 is everything I have learned is wrong. I keep making stupid assumptions, like "HI are 4-2 normally" or "Inspiring Leadership transfers the current Fury state of the Lt" (but now its a Lt. special order vs a command token to do a coordinated order that involves that figure, which is really great). Is there some document that attempts to go over EVERY N2 to N3 change somewhere?
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Oct 22, 2015 15:10
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Laphroaig posted:Is there some document that attempts to go over EVERY N2 to N3 change somewhere? There's a link on the main wiki page: http://wiki.infinitythegame.com/en/Summary_of_Edition_Changes
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Oct 22, 2015 16:12
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Turns out proxying is fine, ideally they're infinity minis. So, I can probably make a list of whatever so long as it's clear.
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Oct 22, 2015 17:00
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