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Un-l337-Pork posted:This is a PR nightmare waiting to happen: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MrwxEX8qOxA. Tesla is just a few idiots away from disaster.
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Oct 21, 2015 22:19
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I'm loving autopilot, but yeah I keep my hands near the wheel and pay attention. The warning that you should take the wheel seems like it should be heeded.
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Oct 21, 2015 22:30
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This has been my concern with driving AIDS and automatic driving systems all along. In aviation, automatic pilots are used to reduce workload, but the pilot is still (should still be,) very much paying attention. I can only imagine that 99% of automatic driving aids will be used by people who think they've paid extra so they can check Facebook on their way to work.
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Oct 22, 2015 00:03
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Un-l337-Pork posted:This is a PR nightmare waiting to happen: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MrwxEX8qOxA. Tesla is just a few idiots away from disaster. They programmed the autopilot so that the path of what it assumes to be the car ahead of you would take precedence over the actual lane markings (which were not obscured in any way)? And it can't tell the difference between a car traveling ahead of you and one coming towards you? Even by beta standards, that's messed up. Hopefully, it shouldn't be too hard to fix.
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Oct 22, 2015 00:26
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Un-l337-Pork posted:This is a PR nightmare waiting to happen: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MrwxEX8qOxA. Tesla is just a few idiots away from disaster. Thought you are supposed to keep your hands on your wheel? Doesn't take long to tighten your grip versus moving your hands in addition to the time it takes to react to that sound. So many idiots are going to off themselves for our entertainment, though.
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Oct 22, 2015 00:54
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Phuzun posted:Thought you are supposed to keep your hands on your wheel? Doesn't take long to tighten your grip versus moving your hands in addition to the time it takes to react to that sound. So many idiots are going to off themselves for our entertainment, though. Some Romanian guy almost did that with the Mercedes lane keep assist: http://mercedesblog.com/testing-s-class-active-lane-keeping-asssist-rear-bench/
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Oct 22, 2015 01:51
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It's supposed to be used on the freeway only.
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Oct 22, 2015 04:16
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MrYenko posted:This has been my concern with driving AIDS and automatic driving systems all along. In aviation, automatic pilots are used to reduce workload, but the pilot is still (should still be,) very much paying attention. When it comes to automatic driving systems, that's exactly what Volvo intends to do. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xYqtu39d3CU Although in a much more controlled fashion than Tesla. I.e. can't be activated unless it's on an approved route and so on. It's a shame that idiots will ruin driving aids, because stuff like adaptive cruise is amazing to have. Much more relaxing, which in turn leads to less fatigue and more attention to traffic. Well, if it's used like it's meant to be....
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Oct 22, 2015 06:14
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I hate autopilot more now. It is such a bad idea. The airplane comparison would work if you were using the car to cross salt flats in fog. The accuracy demanded of this is way too high, not to mention the vast amount of visual interpretation it has to do. The human brain is awesome at super fast visual interpretation, crap at math. Computers are awesome at math, crap at visual interpretation. A good driver aid would be something that helped them increase their capability to read their surroundings, not something that gives them an excuse to ignore it.
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Oct 22, 2015 07:15
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I thought autopilot was for cruising down multi-lane highways in traffic, not for one-lane canyon roads where it sounds like a terrible idea.
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Oct 22, 2015 20:58
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Yeah, now I'm worried idiots are just gonna have their autopilot on in the wrong places and just ram into me
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Oct 22, 2015 21:10
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All the collision-avoidance/detection stuff is still active, as is TACC, so I suspect the risks are lower than with manually-driving distracted drivers.
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Oct 22, 2015 21:16
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Stefan Prodan posted:Yeah, now I'm worried idiots are just gonna have their autopilot on in the wrong places and just ram into me This is exactly what's going to happen.
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Oct 22, 2015 21:27
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"What do you mean the autopilot doesn't parallell park for me?"
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Oct 22, 2015 21:38
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Stefan Prodan posted:Yeah, now I'm worried idiots are just gonna have their autopilot on in the wrong places and just ram into me You can't call something autopilot, talk about how it's a better driver than a human and then go "Oh, but only use it in one particular circumstance and we're not responsible for what happens."
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Oct 22, 2015 21:39
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Mulva posted:You can't call something autopilot, talk about how it's a better driver than a human and then go "Oh, but only use it in one particular circumstance and we're not responsible for what happens." ....but that is exactly how Aircraft Autopilot works. It'll hold course and follow waypoints, but its not a pilot replacement.
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Oct 22, 2015 21:46
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CommieGIR posted:....but that is exactly how Aircraft Autopilot works. It'll hold course and follow waypoints, but its not a pilot replacement. Yes but people don't know that. It's like Siri, I know that it's just a speech to text frontend but people think it's an AI and talk to it as such.
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Oct 22, 2015 21:58
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CommieGIR posted:....but that is exactly how Aircraft Autopilot works. It'll hold course and follow waypoints, but its not a pilot replacement. Aircraft autopilot also needs tens of thousands of dollars of training to use, and would never be released to the general public as 'Beta'
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Oct 22, 2015 22:40
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Collateral Damage posted:"What do you mean the autopilot doesn't parallell park for me?" It does parallel park, though it's a bit picky about the spots still.
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Oct 23, 2015 04:06
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Mulva posted:You can't call something autopilot, talk about how it's a better driver than a human and then go "Oh, but only use it in one particular circumstance and we're not responsible for what happens." Where are they saying it's a better driver than a human? That's bullshit, ugh.
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Oct 23, 2015 04:07
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Cockmaster posted:Some Romanian guy almost did that with the Mercedes lane keep assist: Excellent. Didn't realize Mercedes had that during as well, looks like they put some more thought into it, or just more safety.
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Oct 23, 2015 04:53
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Subjunctive posted:Where are they saying it's a better driver than a human? That's bullshit, ugh. It was literally every story from last week, Tesla may not have said it themselves but they allowed it to be inferred.
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Oct 23, 2015 05:35
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Mulva posted:It was literally every story from last week, Tesla may not have said it themselves but they allowed it to be inferred. Everything I've seen from them, including in the car, has said that it's to assist a driver, and that the driver still needs to be aware and in control. I dunno how they could keep the press from running the "self-driving car" headlines, though, that poo poo is great clickbait. It's the philosophy of adaptive cruise control applied to the steering wheel, anyone reporting on it can trivially figure out that it's not autonomous. (I've been on the wrong side of "allowed it to be inferred" with the press myself, so I have some sympathy. I'd be pissed if they implied it in what they've said, though.)
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Oct 23, 2015 05:43
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Subjunctive posted:Everything I've seen from them, including in the car, has said that it's to assist a driver, and that the driver still needs to be aware and in control. I dunno how they could keep the press from running the "self-driving car" headlines, though, that poo poo is great clickbait. It's the philosophy of adaptive cruise control applied to the steering wheel, anyone reporting on it can trivially figure out that it's not autonomous. Oh I know, believe me I have no love for new media journalism in general and the tech press in particular.
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Oct 23, 2015 05:58
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I'm pretty sure whatever Musk says goes, even when it's really simple stuff. Calling lane assist autopilot to get that sweet tech crowd.
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Oct 23, 2015 13:53
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Mulva posted:It was literally every story from last week, Tesla may not have said it themselves but they allowed it to be inferred. Yes, the idea behind it and the keynote pitch is that humans are stupid and make mistakes so autopilot technology will save them and eliminate accidents. Computers are great when things are easy to measure, like maintaining a steady compass course, but when it comes to continuous visual interpretation of a dynamic environment of human interaction, of which traffic is a simple form, even a drunk teenager will beat an MIT supercomputer.
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Oct 23, 2015 14:18
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Phuzun posted:Excellent. Didn't realize Mercedes had that during as well, looks like they put some more thought into it, or just more safety. They introduced it on the 2014 S-class. It's probably just set up so that the steering controller only looks at the lane markings.
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Oct 23, 2015 22:44
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What do you guys think of leasing a model S, like even if you could afford to buy one? I know that like generally leases are pretty bad deals especially if you think you'd be willing to keep the car for 5-8 years or whatever as I probably would, but I just think like since we have no idea what these cars will be like once they are 8 years old or if Tesla will possibly underestimate how much depreciation they have, leasing might make some sense until we figure out what the long term reliability and resale value are? I assume that at the end of the lease if you decide you want to buy your car you can just pay what's left of its value to them? I'm not sure how that works, I've never leased a car before, is that also like a bad deal to do or is it generally pretty fair at that point?
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Oct 25, 2015 04:49
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http://raleigh.craigslist.org/cto/5268428867.html What is a fair price fot this car? IS $14,5000 good? It does need new tires so I am basically adding that to the price. I can't call the place I always go to price some out since it is Sunday. What tires are recommended and about what should they cost?
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Oct 25, 2015 14:25
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Ribsauce posted:http://raleigh.craigslist.org/cto/5268428867.html If I was the seller I would happily accept half of $145000, so you should probably lowball him. or remove a zero
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Oct 25, 2015 16:28
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OK. 14, 500 then...
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Oct 25, 2015 20:15
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Stefan Prodan posted:What do you guys think of leasing a model S, like even if you could afford to buy one? I know that like generally leases are pretty bad deals especially if you think you'd be willing to keep the car for 5-8 years or whatever as I probably would, but I just think like since we have no idea what these cars will be like once they are 8 years old or if Tesla will possibly underestimate how much depreciation they have, leasing might make some sense until we figure out what the long term reliability and resale value are? I generally hate leasing but leased a Leaf because of the good lease deals and that they only have like an 80 mile range and I figured whatever'd be out in 3 years I'd want to upgrade to, which so far has held out. As for Teslas, harder to say. Based on what I've heard in this thread the build quality leaves something to be desired, with the interior about as durable as a tech product like a cell phone and not something you'd keep for a decade, and even though the range on a Model S is just fine for the most part, 3 or whatever years from now there will probably be cool poo poo and upgrades you'll want, along with yet better range. For me I'm considering leasing my next Leaf next year as well, but might actually keep that one at the end depending on how things pan out, as they are rumored to have a much better range and by then my wife's ICE car may not be as necessary or looking worse for the wear, and range/charging won't be nearly the issue it is now.
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Oct 26, 2015 00:49
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Stefan Prodan posted:What do you guys think of leasing a model S, like even if you could afford to buy one? I know that like generally leases are pretty bad deals especially if you think you'd be willing to keep the car for 5-8 years or whatever as I probably would, but I just think like since we have no idea what these cars will be like once they are 8 years old or if Tesla will possibly underestimate how much depreciation they have, leasing might make some sense until we figure out what the long term reliability and resale value are? Well, Elon Musk does keep boasting nearly to completely autonomous driving in three years. That may be pretty ambitious, but it's not that improbable that there'd be some major improvement to their technology in that time.
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Oct 26, 2015 00:56
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Cockmaster posted:Well, Elon Musk does keep boasting nearly to completely autonomous driving in three years. That may be pretty ambitious, but it's not that improbable that there'd be some major improvement to their technology in that time. Isn't their technology basically a licensed copy of Mercedes' tech? Also Musk claims everything will be in 3 years. He's basically as reliable as Thomas Friedman
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Oct 26, 2015 01:07
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Mange Mite posted:Isn't their technology basically a licensed copy of Mercedes' tech? I'm not up on Mercedes tech but Tesla is doing some cool stuff with machine learning and connected cars which is unique to any approach I've heard of implemented yet. They do use some of the same sensor packages as other manufacturers (mobile eye) but I think the similarities end there. http://fortune.com/2015/10/16/how-tesla-autopilot-learns/ http://mashable.com/2015/10/14/tesla-high-precision-digital-maps/#2QyRLPP9ASqZ
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Oct 26, 2015 01:53
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Mange Mite posted:Isn't their technology basically a licensed copy of Mercedes' tech? The basic idea of using computer vision to recognize lane markings (used in lane departure warning/lane keep assist systems) has been around for quite some time: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lane_departure_warning_system
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Oct 26, 2015 03:03
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Cockmaster posted:The basic idea of using computer vision to recognize lane markings (used in lane departure warning/lane keep assist systems) has been around for quite some time: I'm not talking general concepts, I'm saying this because it's known Tesla sources or licenses a lot of stuff from Mercedes, and the interfaces used to be very similar.
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Oct 26, 2015 03:21
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Cockmaster posted:Well, Elon Musk does keep boasting nearly to completely autonomous driving in three years. That may be pretty ambitious, but it's not that improbable that there'd be some major improvement to their technology in that time. The technology to safely drive cars already exists and has for years, it's going to be a legal/insurance battle that will prevent anything more than the driver assisted semi-autonomous stuff you're seeing now for a while to come. Keeping it in the same vein as adaptive cruise control for now lets car companies keep blame on the driver for when they drunkenly decide to run over grandma in the crosswalk.
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Oct 26, 2015 06:05
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Frinkahedron posted:The technology to safely drive cars already exists and has for years, it's going to be a legal/insurance battle that will prevent anything more than the driver assisted semi-autonomous stuff you're seeing now for a while to come. Keeping it in the same vein as adaptive cruise control for now lets car companies keep blame on the driver for when they drunkenly decide to run over grandma in the crosswalk. In perfect weather it has existed for years. Even until last year, Google's solution had issues with rain.
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Oct 26, 2015 15:03
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And required very detailed map information, I believe.
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Oct 26, 2015 15:05
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