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Nuebot posted:Is it that rare? I wind up with a bunch of them after most of my playthroughs because I am bad at new londo. I always thought the dark wraith stuff was a rarer drop. For more Dark Souls, in Dark Souls 2 there are NPC invaders who show up once per-playthrough, unless you use a specific item that resets an area. Some of these phantoms have very rare chances to drop unique items, some have very rare chances to drop unique sets. Most of the ones that drop unique items only show up on a New Game Plus. So if you really want a set of armor that looks slightly different to a set you got for free earlier in the game, be prepared to reset that zone several times, four of five times at the minimum. By the way, each time you use that item it upgrades the area to the next stage of NewGamePlus so things get harder. For the Aurorus set (which you probably refer to with the second thing): in Scholar of the First Sin (Dark Soul 2's extra-game overhaul edition), you can find that lying around. I was really surprised by the number of people wearing it when I started playing SotFS, thinking that man, everything's full of goobers farming for hours immediately after getting the game  .
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Oct 22, 2015 16:13
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Agent355 posted:I thought there was a failsafe where any missable al bhed primers eventually ended up in that big rear end desert randomly spread about? Maybe I remember incorrectly. Most do, but four in the game don't, and are lost forever. The three in Home are permanently missable. In the HD version, there's an achievement for getting them all. many johnnys has a new favorite as of 17:50 on Oct 22, 2015 |
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Oct 22, 2015 17:43
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Nuebot posted:Is it that rare? There are two lovely ghost weapons. The more common one is there solely to mock you when you're farming for the other one.
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Oct 22, 2015 17:50
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Why the hell you would bother farming for it is what I don't get. At +5 the thing only has an ATK of 165, and even getting it there requires twinkling titanite. If you're going to spend all that time and all those souls why not just go buy a pile of transient curses so you can use whatever other weapon you please? Or just go get actually cursed for free and deal with curing it when you're done with ghostland?
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Oct 22, 2015 19:06
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You would think that since both ghost blades are rare drops and there's an achievement for getting all rare weapons that they'd be required for getting it, right? Nope, they're both completely optional AND complete trash.
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Oct 22, 2015 19:11
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GOTTA STAY FAI posted:Why the hell you would bother farming for it is what I don't get. At +5 the thing only has an ATK of 165, and even getting it there requires twinkling titanite. If you're going to spend all that time and all those souls why not just go buy a pile of transient curses so you can use whatever other weapon you please? Or just go get actually cursed for free and deal with curing it when you're done with ghostland? Malleum posted:You would think that since both ghost blades are rare drops and there's an achievement for getting all rare weapons that they'd be required for getting it, right? Nope, they're both completely optional AND complete trash.
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Oct 22, 2015 19:15
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Choco1980 posted:Cause then there's people like ME where they become Blitzball pros through lots of hard work and go back and nope, good luck even making a single pass that's not intercepted and the stats seem way boosted over what they say they are for the Goers. Interceptions are 100% proximity-based, you just gotta master reading the minimap. There will never be a situation where you can get intercepted if you're reading it right. It's poorly designed because it's not only reliant on gamey understanding, but also largely hangs on RNG. The harder you game it, the better your chance to win, but you can still get screwed by random chance on the Blitzoff no matter how much you know about the math or how approximately you can estimate pixel distances.
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Oct 22, 2015 19:20
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Simply Simon posted:This, but as I just found out, the strategy guide incorrectly listed both Ghost Blades as needed for the Achievement so people were probably farming it until word spread that it was misinformation. As you have to go to NG++ at the very least to get the Achievement, when attempting it, you would probably start out by farming all the rare drops instead of doing those at the end, so you would never discover by accident that you don't need them for the Achievement. Well, that makes sense. Gotta get them cheevos. many johnnys posted:Most do, but four in the game don't, and are lost forever. The three in Home are permanently missable. You know, I played the everliving poo poo out of that game when it first came out, and then again when it was re-released, and to this day, after all those hours and in spite of the primer importer feature, I still have never gotten all of those fuckin' things
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Oct 22, 2015 19:57
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I got all the final fantasy x achievements and my advice is: don't hmmm which achievements are the worst trolls? is it the easily missable permanently missable thingies? Is it getting the ultimate weapons, which require playing that blitzball game for dozens of hours, clicking x to dodge a lighting bolt like 200 times in a row? no, I think it's the one where you have to activate every space in the level-up grid, for every character, including filling empty spaces with rare stat-ups, and including breaking every locked space (even the ones that don't go anywhere) and filling out those ones too. That's the troll. The troll is my life. I am the troll now.
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Oct 22, 2015 20:14
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many johnnys posted:hmmm which achievements are the worst trolls? is it the easily missable permanently missable thingies? Is it getting the ultimate weapons, which require playing that blitzball game for dozens of hours, clicking x to dodge a lighting bolt like 200 times in a row? no, I think it's the one where you have to activate every space in the level-up grid, for every character, including filling empty spaces with rare stat-ups, and including breaking every locked space (even the ones that don't go anywhere) and filling out those ones too. That's the troll. The troll is my life. I am the troll now. the one for (I think) one of the Ghost Recon games for 360 that required you to be #1 on the online leaderboards. In the entire world.
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Oct 22, 2015 20:46
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Popular Human posted:the one for (I think) one of the Ghost Recon games for 360 that required you to be #1 on the online leaderboards. In the entire world. Lost Planet 2 had similar, but at a certain point it was physically impossible to improve the time. That game was a ton of fun but its trophies were utterly insane.
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Oct 22, 2015 20:48
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Doesn't MGSV have a secret ending you can only get if all FOB nukes in the entire playerbase are destroyed? Is that an achievement too?
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Oct 22, 2015 20:54
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That's not an achievement thankfully! The only nuke related one is disarming a single nuke, including one you've made.
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Oct 22, 2015 20:56
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Detective Buttfuck posted:Doesn't MGSV have a secret ending you can only get if all FOB nukes in the entire playerbase are destroyed? Is that an achievement too? Afaik that's a rumor, based on graphics that people mined from the game. edit: not being an achievement, those are known. The rumor is that being a thing at all. many johnnys has a new favorite as of 21:02 on Oct 22, 2015 |
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Oct 22, 2015 20:57
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many johnnys posted:Afaik that's a rumor, based on graphics that people mined from the game. Well, there's a video of the ending on YouTube and it has a list of supposed gamertags, so I believe it's in the game and unlockable somehow. It's just that, even though the whole circumstance around the cutscene is the disarmament of the last nuclear bomb, I don't think that's the actual trigger. It's just something that hasn't been discovered yet. Also, in the video as soon as control is given back to the player they get a notice that another nuke has been built and peace couldn't last forever. Here's the videos, don't click on it if you're worried about spoilers(? there are none). https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l4uSkAACoHc
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Oct 22, 2015 21:32
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I just read through this whole thread. It's almost exclusively about Final Fantasy until page 23 when Mass Effect is mentioned. Then, the Final Fantasy chat drops down to at least one or two posts per page as MMO/Dark Souls chat started taking over. It's interesting that most trolling games are RPGs based on this thread.
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Oct 22, 2015 21:42
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Most games (FPS, RTS, Puzzle, Sandbox) can't really troll, and those than can are rarely able to do it memorably or creatively.
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Oct 22, 2015 21:57
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Well, let's see... FF6 Advance added in four new Espers (the things that teach your characters magic and give them stat boosts on level-up). Thing is, there were absolutely no hints in-game as to where/how you could find them. One of them was fairly straightforward (beat the bonus dungeon), but the other three... -You had to kill at least 10 Cactaurs that only appear in one small desert. And the boss himself is a pain in the rear end, since he has a Death counter that inflicts 1,000 damage to random members of your party in ten bursts; in other words, you can still lose even if you beat him. -You had to take a boat ride in order to get ambushed at sea... Way after you've already gotten the airship that makes boats obsolete. -You had to bid 500,000 Gil on an auction that you'd have every reason to believe was a joke one where you always get outbid by an NPC for a completely useless sword. Then put that sword up for wager at the Coliseum to get a fight with the boss. I forget if it required you to also fight the monster you usually get when you put the sword up for wager (so you'd have absolutely no idea that there'd be a boss). At least they (mostly) taught unique/powerful spells for your efforts, though.
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Oct 22, 2015 23:35
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contrapants posted:I just read through this whole thread. JRPGs kind of hate your very existence. More SMT! Digital Devil Saga again, to be specific. Lets say you've been playing a while, you've gotten nice and strong and think you're king badass of fucktown because you can kill anything you run into at this point. New dungeon is a giant boat in the desert, the savepoint is in the bottom of it and now you're on the top of it wandering around trying to figure out where to go. Suddenly! "Ambushed!" the enemies get to go first. There are these two skull looking fuckers who usually go down in one hit like bitches. But what's this? "Mamudoon" and now your whole party is dead. All that progress is gone in one turn entirely due to RNG deciding that gently caress you, they get to go first.
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Oct 23, 2015 00:50
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contrapants posted:Then, the Final Fantasy chat drops down to at least one or two posts per page as MMO/Dark Souls chat started taking over. It should be no surprise that the Final Fantasy MMO is one of the biggest developer trolls of all time. Another one from the bad old days of terrible design conceptualized by a sadist: The second expansion of FF11, Chains of Promathia, featured an end zone boss named Absolute Virtue. To even spawn him required you to complete the entire storyline of the expansion (no small feat which would honestly require another post or two to document as an effort in masterpiece trolling) meaning the several dozen people you were going to bring to fight him would need to complete days worth of terrible, chore-like content. You would then need to fight and kill every lesser boss in the end zone area, each of which required hours of boring farming to spawn themselves. After you killed all of these lesser bosses for their spawn drops, you would trade them all to a spawn point and Jailer of Love would appear. He in himself was no cake walk, and then after you beat him you had a chance of spawning Absolute Virtue, who would become aggressive immediately. It's been some 7 or 8 years since Absolute Virtue was released so I'm probably leaving out a number of other moronic things: - Absolute Virtue hit like a truck, could one shot any party member at will, and could cast area of effect magic that would likely kill or come close to killing several party members. He would also repeatedly spawn helper wyverns that could also cast massive AOE damage spells. He also had massive defense and HP regen meaning you were lucky to put a dent into him at all even if you could survive his attacks. - In FF11 every class had a "2-Hour" ability which were panic-button abilities that could be used once every two hours, for example the Warrior's Mighty Strikes ability would raise their crit chance to 100% for 30 seconds. Absolute Virtue could use any two hour ability in the game as much as he felt like it. This included the White Mage's Benediction ability, which is an immediate, uninterruptable and unstoppable AOE that recovers all of his HP, so any party that actually brought him down at all would have all their progress reset at will. - Square at one point released a cryptic guide video which supposedly demonstrated how to stop him from using 2 hour abilities, which hinted at having a party member use their corresponding 2 hour ability when he used one, in order to "lock" its use from there on out. As it turns out, if you were an American player the latency to the Japanese servers meant it was literally impossible to react fast enough, and I'm pretty sure this locking thing was bugged for a long time and didn't even work half the time to begin with. - Whenever players would discover alternate strategies to kill Absolute Virtue, Square would quickly put out an emergency patch disabling that strategy. If a group managed to spawn Absolute Virtue they would hold onto him for hours or even days just to try to research how to exploit his stupid rear end this time. - If you did manage to kill him, most of his drops weren't even that good. In that era of the game Square's idea of super-rare loot was stuff that was just marginally improved over the next best, much-more easily obtainable thing so none of AV's items really jumped out as being worth the trouble at all. I'm pretty sure a bunch of it got immediately obsoleted when Square raised the level cap for the first time in 5 years, whereas much older and easier content dropped way better stuff. Most of his drops were in accessory slots too, so you didn't even have the benefit of showing off a visible trophy. A couple of years later, they adjusted Absolute Virtue- not by making him reasonable to fight, but by making him despawn after 2 hours, because another rear end in a top hat end-game monster they introduced in the next expansion caused a guild to stay up for crazy meth-head type hours which resulted in fainting and vomiting. I'm pretty sure this was notable enough to hit mainstream news because I remember my dad asking about it and he hasn't played a video game since Pac-Man: http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/85639-18-Hour-Final-Fantasy-XI-Boss-Induces-Puking Even among people who unapologetically liked FF11, mentioning Chains of Promathia will make even the worst poopsocker shudder. If you meet someone who says they liked Chains of Promathia FF11, they're definitely a masochist and an rear end in a top hat.
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Oct 23, 2015 01:09
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contrapants posted:It's interesting that most trolling games are RPGs based on this thread.  Mainstream Gamers probably aren't willing to put up with this type of bullshit for long, so it mostly stays isolated to RPGs and the like.
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Oct 23, 2015 01:48
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Regalingualius posted:-You had to take a boat ride in order to get ambushed at sea... Way after you've already gotten the airship that makes boats obsolete. There's oblique references to these, at least. For Leviathan, a new NPC mentions getting attacked on the ocean, which admittedly isn't much of a clue. As for Gilgamesh, you are betting on his signature hunting quarry Excalipoor, so if you know the series then it should be clear what you're getting involved in. That doesn't tell you what you should be doing with it after you've got it, but a bit of lateral thinking could lead you to 'what did I do the other time I had a weapon somebody elusive wanted'. Of course, getting that guess wrong would screw you out of it forever, so that doesn't look like a good idea.
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Oct 23, 2015 02:59
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Mortal kombat 9 had an achievement that required you to play each character (excluding dlc characters and kratos) for 24 hours total. With 27 characters it comes out to 648 hours. Ed boon is a master troll.
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Oct 23, 2015 03:08
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I like how after I bring up my own personal paranoid theory that some copies of FFX are different and allow the Goers to flat-out cheat in that first Blitzball game, wherein even after MONTHS of playing for me I still couldn't even use basic strategies like "hide behind the goal" to work without them somehow breaking their own stat caps and winning, and the only responses are people telling me that it's not so hard and to just use those basic tactics I just said didn't work for some copies of the game seemingly.
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Oct 23, 2015 03:15
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Blitzball has been very thoroughly reverse engineered. If different copies had different mechanics it would have been documented by now. The game adds a random +/- 50% on the relevant stat at every action which is more than enough explanation for why it's near impossible much of the time. If I recall correctly even Tidus has <50% chance to goal against the Goer's goalie unless you use the Jecht shot where he still has significantly less than 100% chance and you can only get one shot at it due to hp limits and have to game his exp in the first half to even have him be high enough level to try it. Also you do get a reward for it. You get a Strength Sphere to add a +4 Str node to the grid. Since the game uses a cubic damage formula for physical attacks that's actually pretty significant.
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Oct 23, 2015 03:36
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Regalingualius posted:Thing is, there were absolutely no hints in-game as to where/how you could find them. Dark Souls has shown that in the internet age this isn't a flaw, it's a feature.
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Oct 23, 2015 03:38
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People would argue that the hints are in the level design and enemy placement, but whatever.
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Oct 23, 2015 03:49
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Sleeveless posted:Dark Souls has shown that in the internet age this isn't a flaw, it's a feature. I love Dark Souls. Not just because it's fun, but because the clusterfuck of people who hate and defend it crack me up. People will get so mad when someone accuses it of having bad design, that they'll swear even the genuinely awful parts of it are really good game design, guys. My single favorite troll in Dark Souls is probably the Chaos Servant covenant. After you beat one boss, there's a bell and a little hidden area. In this area is a monster that looks just like monsters you killed outside, except you can talk to it and there's no real indication you can. So the paranoid player might instinctively kill him and ruin everything. Once you go inside behind him is a monster that looks like the boss you just killed, and you can't communicate with it. Killing it grants you a pretty useful item, too. However if you have one ring you can only get either by picking it as a starting item, which is entirely useless up until this point, or by trading another item to a semi-hidden NPC for it, you can understand what she says and join a covenant. Giving her enough Humanity, a stat/item that's beneficial to you, unlocks a shortcut to a later area and lets you save an NPC who would die otherwise. So if you never get this one arbitrary item or kill some gross bug monsters, you're forced to kill a useful NPC. There is zero indication of any of this, by the way.
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Oct 23, 2015 03:56
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You don't need to be able to talk to her to join the covenant and get the rewards. No need for the ring.
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Oct 23, 2015 06:15
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Gestalt Intellect posted:You don't need to be able to talk to her to join the covenant and get the rewards. No need for the ring. Yeah but unless you're following a guide you wouldn't ever know. Or know that the ring did anything. I liked to leave messages implying great treasure within or whatever hoping they'd murder her.
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Oct 23, 2015 06:31
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Nuebot posted:Yeah but unless you're following a guide you wouldn't ever know. Or know that the ring did anything. I liked to leave messages implying great treasure within or whatever hoping they'd murder her. Before the boss everybody left "Amazing chest ahead!" messages, of course. At least there wasn't a "sticky white stuff" option like in Demon's Souls. Speaking of trolls, I find the crystal lizards in Demon's Souls egregious. If I remember correctly, unlike in Dark Souls, where they kept reappearing until you killed them, in Demon's Souls, if they got away from you when you first saw them, they had some weird respawn pattern. It struck me as very Japanese in an obtuse way. I guess I just hate content getting locked out for the crime of not having foreknowledge that the lizard was even there--and most of them can trigger from so far away, you really have to be prepared for them to have any chance before they slide into a wall.
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Oct 23, 2015 13:27
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A Strange Aeon posted:Before the boss everybody left "Amazing chest ahead!" messages, of course. At least there wasn't a "sticky white stuff" option like in Demon's Souls. They only had a limited amount of respawns in Demon's Souls, same with Dark Souls 2 which brought back a lot of Demon's Souls ideas. Which only made me laugh more when people poo poo on it for every little thing, but would turn around and say Demon's Souls was the best of the three. The best thing about the crystal lizards though, is that it didn't matter if you actually looted the items it dropped, if it died you were hosed and a lot of them were placed on or near ledges, just like in the two Dark Souls games. So not only was it really easy to fall to your death trying to kill it, but it was also very easy to kill it and watch as the ragdolling corpse falls away forever, taking your precious upgrade material with it. Oh, another fun troll for Dark Souls are the Vagabond monsters. When people lost large amounts of souls or rare items sometimes they'd randomly spawn in other people's worlds as strange monsters called Vagabonds that would drop crazy amounts of souls and super rare items on death. Except the chance of ever seeing one, let alone managing to kill it before it vanished was so rare that until someone got screenshots of them, they were basically a playground rumor and people would just assume you hacked it if you said a strange monster showed up and dropped ten thousand souls or something.
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Oct 23, 2015 13:32
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Nuebot posted:They only had a limited amount of respawns in Demon's Souls, same with Dark Souls 2 which brought back a lot of Demon's Souls ideas. Which only made me laugh more when people poo poo on it for every little thing, but would turn around and say Demon's Souls was the best of the three. The vagabonds dont actually drop anything rare at all. They're just a small random occurence that happens, I think I've seen 2 or so the whole 100 some hours I played.
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Oct 23, 2015 14:38
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My favorite Dark Souls troll is this ornery little cuss: That's a Basilisk. It hops around like a deranged frog and emits a mist that can kill you almost instantly. They are commonly found in groups, and you first bump into them relatively early in the game. It's hardly the only enemy that can kill you in one hit. This is Dark Souls, right? The dickpunch part is what happens next. When you respawn, you quickly realize that your health bar has been cut in half. You've been cursed. There are only a couple of ways to remove the curse and restore your health bar to full: 1. You can buy an item from a couple of different merchants that will remove the curse. However, at this early stage of the game, the item is somewhat expensive. 2. You can get the curse removed for free by a character deep in a place called the New Londo Ruins. New Londo is an endgame area full of tough ghost enemies that can quickly kill a player who is well prepared and close to finishing the game, much less a new player who is barely a quarter of the way through their first playthrough. Further compounding the frustration is the fact that there are a few simple ways of building up curse resistance, which makes the Basilisks trivial to defeat. However, the easiest method involves one of the most obtuse systems in the game that new players are unlikely to understand at such an early juncture (I sure didn't). But that's not even the best part! When Dark Souls first shipped, the curse effect could actually stack. If you were stubborn enough to take on the Basilisks again without first having the curse removed, you could find yourself relegated to a 1/4th health bar, then 1/8th, and so on. A few curses would render the game effectively unplayable, forcing you to start over from the beginning. The developers decided that this was too dickish even for them, and they patched it out. 
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Oct 23, 2015 14:58
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Also, those aren't its eyes.
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Oct 23, 2015 15:17
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I'm pretty sure the Souls series itself is the greatest troll, sold as a game when it's actually a "getting punched in the crotch repeatedly, forever" simulator. Why yes I suck at Dark Souls, why do you ask?
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Oct 23, 2015 15:28
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Your Sledgehammer posted:My favorite Dark Souls troll is this ornery little cuss: More fun: Curse would also make you unable to get Humanity, which you would normally be able to spend on A. Boosting bonfires so they give you more heals, and B. going back into "alive" form and thus enabling multiplayer. So when you're cursed, you're unable to get assists from helpful player phantoms anymore, and any future bonfires you find will only replenish your heals up to 5 (instead of 10, 15, or 20). I am of the opinion that Curse should wear off on its own after a couple hours, tracked in-game so you can't cheat it by setting your clock ahead. In addition to the other cures of course.
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Oct 23, 2015 15:57
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Nuebot posted:I love Dark Souls. Not just because it's fun, but because the clusterfuck of people who hate and defend it crack me up. People will get so mad when someone accuses it of having bad design, that they'll swear even the genuinely awful parts of it are really good game design, guys. The Chaos Servant thing isn't that bad, for one thing killing the guy who looks like an enemy doesn't matter in the slightest. You lose out on some useful stuff he sells but you don't miss out on the covenant. The really bad design in Dark Souls is all later in the game, poo poo like Lost Izalith which after an OK start just devolves into a massive lava field filled with dozens of reanimated dragon asses, or the Crystal Caves which are mostly invisible walkways over bottomless pits. Yes you can technically see where the paths are because of the very faint, gentle snowfall effect over them, but gently caress you for bringing that up, it's useless and so are you. Also, the Chaos Servants are hidden behind an illusory wall that you have to attack to break. If you reach a rank of 3 in the covenant then go to Demon Ruins, a shortcut to Lost Izalith opens that's filled with Chaos Bugs, incredibly annoying enemies that run away from you all the time. One of these bugs, towards the end of the shortcut, is a special non-respawning one with glowing red eyes. Killing it gives you a glowy hat. Not killing it and heading out to the other side of the shortcut will mean that arguably the best NPC in the game is doomed to put it on his head and go stark raving mad. Reaching rank 3 in the Chaos Servants requires you to turn over 30 Humanity to the covenant leader, which is quite a lot and will require some hefty farming. You turn them over one at a time in an animation that takes about six months. And most covenants in the game give you their full reward at rank 1, so you'd probably never think to do this.
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Oct 23, 2015 16:32
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I never finished the original Dark Souls because of Lost Izalith. I made it through the Crystal Caves and New Londo and Tomb of the Giants, but Lost Izalith was just ugh...
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Oct 23, 2015 16:44
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Lotish posted:I never finished the original Dark Souls because of Lost Izalith. I made it through the Crystal Caves and New Londo and Tomb of the Giants, but Lost Izalith was just ugh... Lost Izalith is easily the most poorly designed area in the game, which is a drat shame because as far as aesthetics go, it's pretty evocative.
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Oct 23, 2015 16:47
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