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seravid posted:How does a magical guiding entity mesh with all the freaky poo poo being Max's fault? As soon as Max stops using her powers, all the bad things stop happening and Nathan gets caught which leads to Jefferson's arrest and Rachel's discovery. Does the doe still show up? I'm guessing no? Then why give Max powers, why appear in the first place? Max being passive solves everything. Was the whole ordeal just to teach her a lesson? About what, playing God? Then you probably shouldn't have ended the story with the question: "Who do you want to sacrifice?". Note that it isn't "Who do you want to save?". There are no winners here. Everything is pointless. The correct course of action is inaction. Valar Morghulis. She's such an unassuming wallflower, why is this even a lesson she needs to be taught? Maybe if the main character were Victoria.
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Oct 22, 2015 22:57
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I've seen some people suggest that maybe she wasn't being taught a lesson, but instead she was being given a chance to reunite with her best friend for a week before losing her. It's still more bitter than sweet if that's the case, but it's not as bad as "haha you can't do anything, stupid girl". Even after everything, I would think Max would be grateful to have had that week than never getting her powers in the first place, at least in that ending.
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Oct 22, 2015 23:03
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GOONS ARE MEAN
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seravid posted:How does a magical guiding entity mesh with all the freaky poo poo being Max's fault? As soon as Max stops using her powers, all the bad things stop happening and Nathan gets caught which leads to Jefferson's arrest and Rachel's discovery. Does the doe still show up? I'm guessing no? Then why give Max powers, why appear in the first place? Max being passive solves everything. Was the whole ordeal just to teach her a lesson? About what, playing God? Then you probably shouldn't have ended the story with the question: "Who do you want to sacrifice?". Note that it isn't "Who do you want to save?". There are no winners here. Everything is pointless. The correct course of action is inaction. Valar Morghulis. The first thing the Doe does is lead you up the lighthouse during the storm, showing it was safe, that Max should be there during the storm. Later it leads you to Rachel, then disappears. It does show up again in the nightmare, but so do thirty foot squirrels. So, your reading on that may vary. I do say the saving Chloe is the best ending, as a real doe shows up in that ending, rather than the cruel mocking butterfly. Disasters are inevitable, letting someone die in front of you isn't. sighnoceros posted:I'm still annoyed that Chekhov's photograph, the class photo taken by Jefferson at the start of the school year several months back, also basically the first photo you see in game, even before the butterfly ended up not mattering at all. I was convinced going into Episode 5 that the final resolution was going to be using that photo to go back to the start of the year and somehow tipping yourself or someone else off about the dark room, where they would find Rachel still alive (we know she was missing for a month or two before we started the school year, but we don't know when Nathan dosed her) and her death was what was causing the tornado. Maybe I just wanted that because going back that far and resetting everything would also mean Kate was still alive... But no, instead I guess we get "you can have time powers but DON'T YOU DARE USE THEM!!!" Also, we used Warren's photo to go back to Thursday night, tipped David off to the dark room, then presumably just hid out for a whole day? Why not, you know... spend that day warning people (at LEAST our loved ones) and preparing for evacuation? Rachel had been missing since April. She was long dead by the time that photo was taken. Reclaimer posted:She's such an unassuming wallflower, why is this even a lesson she needs to be taught? Maybe if the main character were Victoria. The game repeatedly shows they're one in the same, man. sighnoceros posted:I've seen some people suggest that maybe she wasn't being taught a lesson, but instead she was being given a chance to reunite with her best friend for a week before losing her. It's still more bitter than sweet if that's the case, but it's not as bad as "haha you can't do anything, stupid girl". Even after everything, I would think Max would be grateful to have had that week than never getting her powers in the first place, at least in that ending. I can agree with that reading, and Chloe seems to think that as well with her whole Breakfast Club "Don't you forget about me." goodbye. I still think saving her is the best outcome though. wyoming fucked around with this message at 23:10 on Oct 22, 2015 |
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Oct 22, 2015 23:06
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wyoming posted:The first thing the Doe does is lead you up the lighthouse during the storm, showing it was safe, that Max should be there during the storm. Later it leads you to Rachel, then disappears. It does show up again in the nightmare, but so do thirty foot squirrels. So, your reading on that may vary. This seems really significant as you really don't need to be there if you're going back in time to let Chloe die. I mean you can meet Chloe anywhere to get the photo the same way you got one from Warren. It's only important to be there if you are trying to keep Chloe and yourself safe in a timeline you aren't going to rewind.
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Oct 22, 2015 23:12
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The whole time travel conceit is a simply metaphor for growing up, how you cannot ruminate on past decisions forever, and how you cannot remain a passive observer. It's not that Max needs to be taught a lesson so much as her character grows from a shy adolescent who views herself as a passive observer to someone who recognizes that her decisions have irreversible consequences upon the lives of other people. It is a lesson that hopefully all of us learn, just presented with a supernatural twist.
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Oct 22, 2015 23:13
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Nature wasn't trying to teach Max a lesson by giving her time powers. The characters interpreted the information they were given wrong. They were right about the consequences, but wrong about what they were intended to do. Letting Arcadia Bay get wiped out was the correct choice. Throughout the series you have all these tidbits getting dropped about native american legends, and Arcadia Bay loving up the nature in the area. The fish are all dying off, the Prescotts want to tear down a bunch of forest for new estates. Who's guiding you throughout the series? A deer, a spirit of nature. Now think about Max, the person who was given these time powers. Think about the kind of person she is. She ditches her friend for years because she just can't be bothered with long distance communication. She keeps using her powers to increase her social standing in life. Sure, she does some obviously correct stuff with regards to saving lives, but she also uses these powers a lot for self gain. Repeatedly saving Chloe's life, working so hard to keep her friend alive now that she's got her back? Nature expects Max to hold onto her as tight as she can. Max is selfish. Now think again about the 'Sacrifice Arcadia Bay' ending. What's shown to be happening when the town is demolished? Nature is coming back. Deer are literally frolicking in the streets. There are no humans around save for Max and Chloe but tons of deer. Nature is celebrating. Finally, the town that was harming it has been wiped out. Nothing else makes sense. There was no lesson. A lesson would be pointless. Max would never have needed to learn not to use her powers if nature hadn't randomly given them to her. They were given for a purpose, and if you destroy Arcadia Bay that purpose is fulfilled. My game's Max is a hero.
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Oct 22, 2015 23:16
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wyoming posted:Rachel had been missing since April. She was long dead by the time that photo was taken. You're probably right, I remember glancing at the diary and seeing the first entry was in July, but that was when she was first accepted. Looks like the first day at school was Sep. 3rd. Still, we know it was Nathan who killed Rachel on accident, not Jefferson. And there doesn't seem to have been a victim between Rachel and Kate. I was thinking that we didn't know when Nathan got involved with Jefferson, but I just now realized that it must've been a while ago because they had time to get the bunker built. So yeah, it's pretty likely that she was killed pretty soon after she was kidnapped, but if Jefferson was as obsessed with her as everyone else seems to be, he might have kept her alive for a long time as his 'muse'. But if Rachel was when Nathan started getting involved with trying to actually participate, it might've been pretty recently, I don't expect he waited long afterward to get Kate and Chloe, so idk, I could see it both ways. Doesn't matter, didn't happen, was just a hope I had going into the episode. That scene where Chloe finds her in the junkyard was really rough. 
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Oct 22, 2015 23:19
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I love pretty much all of the Telltale games. Just want to know if this is any good, what do you guys think? PS: I've not looked at any media in relation to this just saw it in the store today
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Oct 22, 2015 23:19
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VoLaTiLe posted:I love pretty much all of the Telltale games. It's great.
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Oct 22, 2015 23:20
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VoLaTiLe posted:I love pretty much all of the Telltale games. It's easily my favorite game of the year. You won't regret buying it, just try not to read any spoilers.
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Oct 22, 2015 23:29
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wyoming posted:The game repeatedly shows they're one in the same, man. Fair point, but largely irrelevant to the point I was making. Viridiant posted:Nature wasn't trying to teach Max a lesson by giving her time powers. The characters interpreted the information they were given wrong. They were right about the consequences, but wrong about what they were intended to do.  Beautiful
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Oct 22, 2015 23:30
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exquisite tea posted:The whole time travel conceit is a simply metaphor for growing up, how you cannot ruminate on past decisions forever, and how you cannot remain a passive observer. It's not that Max needs to be taught a lesson so much as her character grows from a shy adolescent who views herself as a passive observer to someone who recognizes that her decisions have irreversible consequences upon the lives of other people. It is a lesson that hopefully all of us learn, just presented with a supernatural twist. Letting your best friend/True Love bleed out alone in a bathroom - while you sit there and witness the whole thing - is one hell of a lesson. Viridiant posted:Nature Exactly. The lesson thing I was talking about was from the sacrifice Chloe ending's point of view. I've been aboard the 'cleansing storm' train since the beginning, though I believe there should have been a less extreme solution to the problem; Max's powers were given to find such a solution and prevent the storm, something in those lines. Starting a life and relationship on top of a mountain of bones, some of which belonged to dear friends and family, is pretty hosed up and just makes it seem like the Bad Option.
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Oct 22, 2015 23:32
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It's painfully obvious they ran out of money and had to make a half-assed ending on the fly. There's way too much evidence that there was a potentially much different ending planned, for example... 1: The continuing theme of Arcadia Bay and the nature around it being corrupted, mainly by the Prescott family 2: The fact that the Prescotts knew the tornado was coming, i.e. the bunker, Nathan saying that the storm was coming, Sean writing that the town is going to be receiving a massive enema soon and was heavily investing in a residential community away from the ocean, the Vortex Club being founded by the Prescotts. (That's way too much stuff to just be red herrings, it really feels like dropped plot points) 3: Spirit animals and the fact that they actually exist and Max's relationship with deer 4: The theme that Max was growing into her powers and becoming more responsible and heroic in possible preparation for stopping the storm. 5: An actual solid reason for why Max got her time powers without going into way too much detail if they went down that road, the powers that be gave it to her to save the town, avenge Rachel, and uncover the Prescotts' conspiracy. 6: That one old leak revealed that there was supposed to be entirely different scenes like at the hospital and at the Blackwell gym. It's a shame they probably ran out of money because Square was stingy, but there's still no excuse for going for with the ending that actually makes everything pointless and everyone saw coming since Day 1. I wouldn't have minded a weak ending at all, but not what we got. Accordion Man fucked around with this message at 01:58 on Oct 23, 2015 |
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Oct 22, 2015 23:37
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I'm really tired of the argument I keep on seeing in discussions of ~*~*~controversial endings~*~*~ that an ending being different from what was supposedly planned is a damning indictment of it. There's more to telling a story than the careful and precise execution of a plan; most stories aren't written like Babylon 5 or whatever. Anyway I finally watched the save Chloe ending and I like it a lot??? I'm still not sure if I'd pick it but it's a very satisfying ending and I don't really buy it as a "gently caress you for choosing Wrong™" ending at all. I imagine that they're heading back to Seattle to crash at Max's parents' place. 
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Oct 22, 2015 23:46
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There should have been a Frisco Ending
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Oct 22, 2015 23:48
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Accordion Man posted:It's painfully obvious they ran out of money and had to make a half-assed ending on the fly. One dev already basically said this.
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Oct 22, 2015 23:48
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Kurtofan posted:There should have been a Frisco Ending *Max hangs up on Chloe being killed by a tornado* "Eh, close enough."
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Oct 22, 2015 23:51
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Empress Theonora posted:*Max hangs up on Chloe being killed by a tornado* "Eh, close enough." This really killed the game for all the Max / Principal Wells shippers.
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Oct 22, 2015 23:54
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VoLaTiLe posted:I love pretty much all of the Telltale games. Putting the adventure games aside, I'd rank the games as: LiS ~ WDS1 Tales From The Borderlands Wolf Among Us WDS2 . . . . . . . Game of Thrones So yeah, I put it up with Tell Tale's best. Karnegal fucked around with this message at 23:59 on Oct 22, 2015 |
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Oct 22, 2015 23:56
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Caedar posted:One dev already basically said this. Are there interviews or something out there?
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Oct 22, 2015 23:58
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Kurtofan posted:There should have been a Frisco Ending San Francisco you heartless monster!
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Oct 23, 2015 00:19
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Caedar posted:One dev already basically said this. Source?
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Oct 23, 2015 00:23
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exquisite tea posted:The whole time travel conceit is a simply metaphor for growing up, how you cannot ruminate on past decisions forever, and how you cannot remain a passive observer. Somewhat undercut by the fact that you literally have to do nothing if you what to avoid mass death at the end.
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Oct 23, 2015 00:32
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Fluffdaddy posted:Source? Talking to the kids on the tumblrs: 
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Oct 23, 2015 00:44
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BobTheJanitor posted:Talking to the kids on the tumblrs: 
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Oct 23, 2015 01:20
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Hey look if you're not happy with 'we ran out of money make up your own ending with the power of imagination' then clearly you're just an entitled gamer.
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Oct 23, 2015 01:42
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Pawn 17 posted:She had visions of the tornado, but nothing weird actually happened until she was using her powers. Chole was fated to die, and as Chole said, she kept dying or almost dying in various ways and Max kept messing with time more and more to save her. When you talk to Warren in the dinner during the storm, he explains that when Max reversed time, she caused a chain reaction, "even in the environment", then eludes to the final choice she will have to make. So I don't think it's a big stretch for Max to know Arcadia is saved by letting Chloe die and not using any rewind powers in the original timeline. That's because the idea is that she has done this a lot. Like maybe years and didn't realize it. That's my idea however. The tornado existed first, because this is not the first iteration.
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Oct 23, 2015 03:23
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BobTheJanitor posted:Hey look if you're not happy with 'we ran out of money make up your own ending with the power of imagination' then clearly you're just an entitled gamer. It's a decent ending 
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Oct 23, 2015 03:26
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I figure they would have made enough money from this game to make a director's cut or GOTY edition or something. It's sold really well, so it doesn't make sense that they would have run out of money. Plus I'm sure they could sell the poo poo out of merchandise and license it out.
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Oct 23, 2015 03:46
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Codependent Poster posted:I figure they would have made enough money from this game to make a director's cut or GOTY edition or something. It's sold really well, so it doesn't make sense that they would have run out of money. Plus I'm sure they could sell the poo poo out of merchandise and license it out. I would pay $10 for a Director's Supercut or whatever.
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Oct 23, 2015 03:52
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Codependent Poster posted:I figure they would have made enough money from this game to make a director's cut or GOTY edition or something. It's sold really well, so it doesn't make sense that they would have run out of money. Plus I'm sure they could sell the poo poo out of merchandise and license it out. Making a great game has nothing to do with making money - see Troika Games. We also don't know what their publishing deal was and how much they're taking home off of sales. I don't think they're going to fold, but they very seriously could be out of cash for this project. Some merch shirts are coming in 2016 Unrelated, someone in this thread mentioned Puella Magi Madoka Magica, which prompted me to re-watch it. And if you want a time traveling girls story, this is a pretty great one.
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Oct 23, 2015 03:53
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Car-Crash Chloe Action Playset. Comes with Spin-Action(tm) wheelchair, hospital bed, ventilator, and Blade Runner DVD. Will Max choose mercy for her BFF? Only you decide! William, Joyce, and Max figures sold separately.
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Oct 23, 2015 03:53
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What, was the game supposed to follow them until same-sex marriages were legal in Oregon? Till they die of old age in hipster space? Just because they originally had variations of one ending, like they did the other, doesn't mean we somehow got "less".
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Oct 23, 2015 04:15
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wyoming posted:What, was the game supposed to follow them until same-sex marriages were legal in Oregon? Till they die of old age in hipster space? You really need to chill seriously typing in caps? It's a game jeez. Anyways it's clear they ran out of money and had to change the ending given that this is a small indie company and the ending was still kind of decent that is amazing. Remember Square is like the only company that would publish this and the game's concept is a gamble I doubt they had much money to work with. Everybody else wanted to make Max a boy so it could be a self insert. I"m pretty sure this game sold like hotcakes but we'll have to wait a bit to see and I've seen Squareenix give worse games a sequel/spiritual successor .
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Oct 23, 2015 05:49
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Longer doesn't equal better. I prefer the short to-the-point ending to the one with all the slow panning shots and inappropriate music choices.
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Oct 23, 2015 06:02
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seravid posted:How does a magical guiding entity mesh with all the freaky poo poo being Max's fault? As soon as Max stops using her powers, all the bad things stop happening and Nathan gets caught which leads to Jefferson's arrest and Rachel's discovery. Does the doe still show up? I'm guessing no? Then why give Max powers, why appear in the first place? Max being passive solves everything. Was the whole ordeal just to teach her a lesson? About what, playing God? Then you probably shouldn't have ended the story with the question: "Who do you want to sacrifice?". Note that it isn't "Who do you want to save?". There are no winners here. Everything is pointless. The correct course of action is inaction. Valar Morghulis. The ending "question" the author(s) ask of the player is absurd. Considering the main themes, there's plenty of ways to go about what would you sacrifice to keep a friend/best friend/lover? if that's your main question for the player, without even involving death of anyone. The game ramps the question up over time, like "would you break in / steal money FROM THE HANDICAPPED FUND for your friend? (no stop it, bad writer, bad) Turning that final question into a quantitative one over mainly a qualitative one is a real waste. Even pitching Chloe vs any other "have been built up to be likeable/a friend to Max" character's *lives* against each other, asking the player to pick, turns it into some sort of moral question about "who's more worthy to live? ( Going with the whole "growing up", "taking responsibility", "selfishness/social standing", "rich people beign corrupt shits" vs " Obviously Max should be taken away by the cops at the end for multiple counts of burglary and theft, ala Monty Python
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Oct 23, 2015 06:12
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I feel really bad for a lot of you because you seem unable to enjoy a truly great game without dissecting every tiny aspect of it. I'd hate to be like that.
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Oct 23, 2015 09:17
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BobTheJanitor posted:Talking to the kids on the tumblrs: For those who can't bear the suspense here's what I learned from my uncle at dontnod: Chloe develops severe survivor's guilt over the death of all of her friends and family. Having now committed to Walter White levels of atrocity Max double downs on her possessiveness and becomes abusively protective. Their relationship deteriorates until Chloe runs away and is found in Seattle a month later, dead in a bathtub from a heroin overdose. Max commits suicide by jumping off a lighthouse. Zoom out. It's all in a snowglobe held by an autistic teenage ghost deer. Junkfist fucked around with this message at 09:49 on Oct 23, 2015 |
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Oct 23, 2015 09:46
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When choosing Chloe, it would have been great if one had the option of rewinding anyway to save Chloe (again), after which the game restarts from chapter 1
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Oct 23, 2015 11:52
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jonnypeh posted:When choosing Chloe, it would have been great if one had the option of rewinding anyway to save Chloe (again), after which the game restarts from chapter 1 That's exactly how Episode 1 starts though, right after an alt-universe Max presumably jumps into a Polaroid we never see and messes around with it to give us the timeline we play through for Life is Strange.
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Oct 23, 2015 11:58
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