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The slapfight has already started; it is too late for the goons to vote.
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Oct 23, 2015 01:35
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| # ? May 14, 2024 00:20 |
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Voyager was the best series. I've doomed us all
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Oct 23, 2015 02:28
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That episode where the Enterprise tries to kick out the Indians is kind of all over the place. I'm not sure I've ever watched it before. Like, if there was a cool ship fight, it might be TNG at its best, because it has social commentary, moral dilemmas and character development, but from any other point of view it's pretty crazy and stupid. Admiral Nechayev has a good turn, esp when she chumps Riker, and Dr. Crusher is steady milfing it up. And I liked the part where Wesley goes down to the engine room and tells LaForge that his engine mods are lame, causing him to react like a goon who has been told that his libertarian interpretation of the movie Prometheus is retarded. He apparently goes and bitches to everyone on board, because like six hours later Crusher is discussing it with some no-name staff officer. I honestly had no memory of this episode, although I recognized the details when you goons discuss it. I wonder how many other TNG eps I've basically forgotten and if they are all going be this surreal. I mean, this is how they write Wesley out of the series? Sheesh. Edit: Oh and in the end, skilled negotiator and diplomat Picard blurts out that the Indians can expect zero help going forward from the Federation, and the Cardie captain seems fairly sure that the Cardies will leave the Indians alone, sure, I guess, not really my job, but OK. Four years later, the Cardassians happen to choose that planet as the site of the 2,048th Torturelympics! Hooray! Tujague fucked around with this message at 02:47 on Oct 23, 2015 |
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Oct 23, 2015 02:44
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Nondescript Van posted:So is the federation/Earth actually cashless or do they get paid but they don't care and just see it as booze money? The creators of Star Trek came up with the idea of a cashless society, and then nobody ever bothered to figure out what this would actually be like. Because nobody(meaning, none of the writers) was actually interested in the idea of a society without money. But they had to pay lip service to the idea because it was now canon. So every so often someone says something about there being no money, and they make the effort to not show people getting paychecks or paying for anything. Actually having no money would radically change society in every possible way, assuming it was a post-scarcity society. Anyone could do anything they wanted, and nobody would have to do anything they didn't want, and there would be replicators to make everything for you and holodecks to simulate anything for you. The majority of people would live their entire lives as a vacation, mostly laying around consuming whatever entertainment and drugs were available. It's an open question to what extent anyone would be willing to work any jobs at all. Artists would be free to create art, which in 99.99% of cases nobody else would want. Of course, some things would always be scarce, and it would be interesting to see how people went about competing to get those things. None of this is actually depicted in star trek, which is a show about a future military organization full of people working boring loving jobs for no apparent reason, except maybe in 30 years they eventually get the be a starship captain and then they can do some cool stuff. But in the meantime, I think I'll go spend 12 hours recalibrating some equipment while other people get to play captain and science officer. At least it's better than Thompson over there who spends 10 hours a day standing in the brig guarding it for no good loving reason because the ship's computer and sensors could do it for him.
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Oct 23, 2015 07:40
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Orange Sunshine posted:None of this is actually depicted in star trek, which is a show about a future military organization full of people working boring loving jobs for no apparent reason, except maybe in 30 years they eventually get the be a starship captain and then they can do some cool stuff. But in the meantime, I think I'll go spend 12 hours recalibrating some equipment while other people get to play captain and science officer. At least it's better than Thompson over there who spends 10 hours a day standing in the brig guarding it for no good loving reason because the ship's computer and sensors could do it for him. If that one guy ever got around to mass producing Soong-type androids like Data, you wouldn't even have that to do. You'd probably envy Thompson and his brig duties. As such a meaningless and low-priority task, a Data-clone is too valuable to waste on that. Enjoy wasting your empty life on the holodeck!
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Oct 23, 2015 08:23
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Orange Sunshine posted:
The concept of a post-scarcity economy seems paradoxical to me because some people, when provided with everything they need, will always desire something else that is scarce, or desire to have more than others. Compound that with the fact that everything in the universe is, in fact, a scarce resource. Thus any "post-scarcity" economy cannot live up to its name, it merely indicates that scarcity doesn't affect the daily lives of the common citizen.
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Oct 23, 2015 08:42
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The new post-scarcity metric is measured in experiences. So, you'll have hot dog eating contests and how big your gangbang can be to set yourself apart from everyone else.
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Oct 23, 2015 08:48
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shadow puppet of a posted:Thanks to this thread I now realize I hate Spock. What a tiresome bore. And his father Sarek. Jeez. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S7cXWrdHshE
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Oct 23, 2015 08:56
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Orange Sunshine posted:The creators of Star Trek came up with the idea of a cashless society, and then nobody ever bothered to figure out what this would actually be like. Because nobody(meaning, none of the writers) was actually interested in the idea of a society without money. But they had to pay lip service to the idea because it was now canon. So every so often someone says something about there being no money, and they make the effort to not show people getting paychecks or paying for anything. We've already been over why your post is dumb like three times. You're thinking about this with a modern day attitude. For example, CEOs are seen as more successful as teachers because they earn more money. However, imagine for a moment that you could start your own business tomorrow but it isn't really a business it's just a hobby, and the only reason the business would exist would be almost like a charity, it entirely exists just to provide things to people free of charge. Furthermore, it's not even difficult to do as you don't have to worry about turning a profit or anything like that. However the teacher still does the same job they've always done, that is preparing the next generation of children to make sure they have the right values and skills they need to get ahead in life. This is still hard work because you still need to deal with human children. Would the CEO still be seen as the more successful job? Possibly not. We view the idea of a Star Trek future through a 21st century lense. You think everyone would become lazy and slothful if they were given everything, and maybe that did happen for a time. Have you ever taken a serious amount of time off work and just spent it jerking off ot whatever the entire time? It's great for a while but then it gets boring. I mean gently caress I even quit my last job because there wasn't enough work to keep me occupied (and the manager was a oval office). The reason Sisko's dad runs a cafe is because he loves cooking food. The reason people fish for real fish is they love fishing. Have you literally never spoke to someone who kinda wishes they could be writer or artist or carpenter for a job as it's creative but are stuck in their middle management office job? Imagine taking everyone who works in for profit companies apart from designers and engineers and say "OK you don't need to do this anymore, what do you do?". The whole point is human society is way more developed than ours during Star Trek. You can be a lay about jerking off in holosuites and doing nothing all day, but everyone will think you're wasting your life. People go out and do things because they want to invent, create, explore. Not just say "Computer, load holodeck programme anime 1" five times a day.
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Oct 23, 2015 09:25
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JediTalentAgent posted:If that one guy ever got around to mass producing Soong-type androids like Data, you wouldn't even have that to do. You'd probably envy Thompson and his brig duties. As such a meaningless and low-priority task, a Data-clone is too valuable to waste on that. I wonder if they ever got around to donating Lore to that one guy.
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Oct 23, 2015 09:29
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Basically, we'd all be holoMMO addicts with no real life pressures forcing us to log off. I mean, people already fall into that trap now, if they didn't have pressures stopping them and the games were a thousand times more compelling...
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Oct 23, 2015 09:56
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I REALLY hate J.J Abrams' Star Trek films.
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Oct 23, 2015 11:03
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MikeJF posted:Basically, we'd all be holoMMO addicts with no real life pressures forcing us to log off. I mean, people already fall into that trap now, if they didn't have pressures stopping them and the games were a thousand times more compelling... Apart from you wouldn't want to live in a fake simulation all your life because you've been brought up with an amazing education and inspired to do what ever makes you passionate. On top of that everyone (or nearly everyone) would be well adjusted individuals (especially as there are so many counsellors) no one would be forced to live with their parents and replicators make sure whatever you eat has all the nutrients of healthy food so no one is a fat sack of poo poo. Basically no goons exist in the future, only ambitious individuals who want to do something with their lives.
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Oct 23, 2015 11:37
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Iain M. Banks' "Culture" series of scifi books describe the post scarcity society pretty well. People play games - but they also invent games for others to play. People explore and takes risks, because they get bored easily. They go on years-long trips to unknown space for bragging rights. They raise chickens because society appreciates an omelette that is not converted from pure energy - it took time, someone invested in it, it's cooler that way. People make art, but they also build cars, because 3000 year old technology happens to be cool this year and they are hipsters. They serve food in a cafe because it's sort of humorous and fun. They go to war because they believe in their society and its values and want to protect it. To be ready to protect it, some of them get military training.
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Oct 23, 2015 12:08
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Kitchner posted:Apart from you wouldn't want to live in a fake simulation all your life because you've been brought up with an amazing education and inspired to do what ever makes you passionate. goon- goon will find a way
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Oct 23, 2015 12:12
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Germstore posted:goon- goon will find a way Oh poo poo I forgot about Geordi. In this future an intelligent and successful black guy can't even get laid. Maybe you're right.
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Oct 23, 2015 12:30
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The main lesson that Star Treks gives us is that no matter what, there will always be sleazy goons believing themselves better than everyone around them while masturbating to computer simulated imagery. Roddenberry was right.
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Oct 23, 2015 13:34
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It's more Barclay than you may think.
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Oct 23, 2015 14:04
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The Culture series is a better example of post scarcity and the "why does anybody do anything?" question. Governance, military, and real work is done by AI that simulate entire universes for fun. All the citizens just kinda gently caress around and do what they want with a few that get to be spies and defend the way of life. It's still a libertarian circlejerk, but a more realistic one. Player of Games is also a really good book.
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Oct 23, 2015 14:33
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TEAYCHES posted:the shadows in babylon 5 understood that without conflict there is no progress I was half a season in until I realized those spiky tentacle ships weren't the ships used by Londo's species. At first I just assumed they modeled their spaceships on their signature hair. I mean the Minbari ships were shaped like their bone-head things, so...
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Oct 23, 2015 14:48
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EvilTaytoMan posted:I wonder if they ever got around to donating Lore to that one guy. "Lt. Cmdr. Data is a sentient being with all the rights and privileges of a Starfleet officer and Federation citizen. However, if you want to essentially mutiliate or hook a car battery up to the whatevers of his brother, I don't see a problem. Hell, before we got him back here, I was sexually abusing the dismantled body."
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Oct 23, 2015 17:01
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Kitchner posted:We've already been over why your post is dumb like three times.  Yes, I am. There's so much more I can do aside from helping dipshit clients save some money, improve efficiency by single digit percentage points, or consider cloud solutions. I make a lot of money but I'm so. loving. bored.
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Oct 23, 2015 17:03
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JediTalentAgent posted:"Lt. Cmdr. Data is a sentient being with all the rights and privileges of a Starfleet officer and Federation citizen. However, if you want to essentially mutiliate or hook a car battery up to the whatevers of his brother, I don't see a problem. Hell, before we got him back here, I was sexually abusing the dismantled body." Well they did permanently dismantle him so I don't see why they couldn't have donated his body to Science. It's what Soong would've wanted... probably.
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Oct 23, 2015 17:13
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Data's maybe going to be stripping him for parts, too. No aftermarket parts on this android. Data walks onto the bridge, looks 30 years younger, admits cut deactivated Lore's face off and reattached it to his own.
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Oct 23, 2015 17:21
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JediTalentAgent posted:"Lt. Cmdr. Data is a sentient being with all the rights and privileges of a Starfleet officer and Federation citizen. However, if you want to essentially mutiliate or hook a car battery up to the whatevers of his brother, I don't see a problem. Hell, before we got him back here, I was sexually abusing the dismantled body." EvilTaytoMan posted:Well they did permanently dismantle him so I don't see why they couldn't have donated his body to Science. It's what Soong would've wanted... probably. I always liked how they spent an entire episode confirming that Data is a sentient being who cannot be forcibly deactivated without due process of law, and then Lore was the baddie one time too many so Data just shut him the hell off and took him apart at the end of the episode because gently caress that guy.
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Oct 23, 2015 17:24
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I think Lore was angry all the time because he didn't have a dick.
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Oct 23, 2015 17:25
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Powered Descent posted:I always liked how they spent an entire episode confirming that Data is a sentient being who cannot be forcibly deactivated without due process of law, and then Lore was the baddie one time too many so Data just shut him the hell off and took him apart at the end of the episode because gently caress that guy. No sentient being would wear body-sculpted cable knit sweaters.
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Oct 23, 2015 17:36
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shadow puppet of a posted:No sentient being would wear body-sculpted cable knit sweaters. Riker disagrees...  Source for all your Star Trek fashion critiquing needs: http://sttngfashion.tumblr.com/ (This one is from that episode with the planet of the Irish stereotypes)
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Oct 23, 2015 18:04
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Nondescript Van posted:The Culture series is a better example of post scarcity and the "why does anybody do anything?" question. Governance, military, and real work is done by AI that simulate entire universes for fun. All the citizens just kinda gently caress around and do what they want with a few that get to be spies and defend the way of life. It's still a libertarian circlejerk, but a more realistic one. The Culture isn't really that libertarian. People can pretty much do what they want, but they're completely pampered by their robot overlords. Even when they engage in risky behavior, there are always some robot drones or somesuch to keep them from falling down and hurting themselves. I remember in one book one they discussed how rock climbers would be saved from falling by a planet-wide satellite network that could project fields fast enough to catch them when they fell. The AIs basically looked at humans as toddlers that need to be fed and have their diapers changed. That's basically a "nanny state," something that libertarians decry but need to actually survive with their asinine philosophy. As Obama would say, "you didn't build that."
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Oct 23, 2015 18:08
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Powered Descent posted:I always liked how they spent an entire episode confirming that Data is a sentient being who cannot be forcibly deactivated without due process of law, and then Lore was the baddie one time too many so Data just shut him the hell off and took him apart at the end of the episode because gently caress that guy. It would have been conceivable that the Romulans clandestinely intervened and had Lore instead of dumbshit B4 in Nemesis. While I'm at it, replace Shinzon with Sela. And replace vampire monsters with just regular hard-line Romulans. Picard and Data's demons come back to haunt them. Basically, it would be better if it were a completely different movie.
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Oct 23, 2015 18:10
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A post-scarcity society where everyone is a hipster trying to be the most unique person in the universe sounds like a dystopia. I always liked the idea that all the hedonists in the future are wiped out because they all starve to death in their fantasy holodecks having huge orgies so everyone else really really likes dumb boring poo poo like cataloging some distant galaxy then having a fake beer later about it later while nodding sagely.
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Oct 23, 2015 18:33
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Kitchner posted:We've already been over why your post is dumb like three times. The 50% of the population with sub-100 IQs are not going to be inventing anything, creating or exploring. Well, ok, they'll do the 24th century equivalent of horrible fan fiction, poetry and scrapbooking. Accomplishing things is hard, but cheering a sports team and then feeling a great victory when they win is easy. Most of the rest will get their inventing/creating/exploring needs met through games, as people do today. Saving or conquering the world in a video game is easy. The creative types will sit around painting pictures and writing stories that even their friends have no interest in, as they do today. I think your optimistic vision of a post-scarcity future only works if you have a high IQ population and somehow no drugs, and even then half the people don't do poo poo.
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Oct 23, 2015 18:36
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I'm pretty sure most of them end up in Starfleet.
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Oct 23, 2015 19:06
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Harveygod posted:It would have been conceivable that the Romulans clandestinely intervened and had Lore instead of dumbshit B4 in Nemesis. While I'm at it, replace Shinzon with Sela. And replace vampire monsters with just regular hard-line Romulans. Picard and Data's demons come back to haunt them. I've literally plotted out fanfic in my head for this script for years. Man, I've got problems.
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Oct 23, 2015 20:38
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Jesus loving christ
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Oct 23, 2015 22:27
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JediTalentAgent posted:I've literally plotted out fanfic in my head for this script for years. Yes. Yes you do.
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Oct 23, 2015 22:42
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Orange Sunshine posted:The 50% of the population with sub-100 IQs are not going to be inventing anything, creating or exploring. Well, ok, they'll do the 24th century equivalent of horrible fan fiction, poetry and scrapbooking. Accomplishing things is hard, but cheering a sports team and then feeling a great victory when they win is easy. The average intelligence of humanity drastically increases just by having regular meals for everyone. It's really sad but it's a fact. Then add the ability to cure every single disease, be it viral, environmental, genetic or psychological. Add their perfected model of neurocognition allowing provably optimal teaching and parenting. Then give everyone the ability to anything they want. You don't have to have your childhood dreams of walking on the moon crushed, you can take a field trip there. You can instantly talk to anyone in the federation, any expert you want of a population of geniuses that makes our seven billion mostly starving in the street a rounding error. Everyone's pretty smart, yo
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Oct 24, 2015 01:09
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EvilTaytoMan posted:Well they did permanently dismantle him so I don't see why they couldn't have donated his body to Science. It's what Soong would've wanted... probably. I get the feeling the Soong would have wanted Lore to win and gently caress everyone up, actually.
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Oct 24, 2015 05:43
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chaosbreather posted:The average intelligence of humanity drastically increases just by having regular meals for everyone. It's really sad but it's a fact. These people aren't missing any meals, but they've missed the IQ train. And they're not going away in your 24th century future, they're still there, eating and breeding and buying lottery tickets.  As to curing psychological conditions, I see no evidence of that in Star Trek. Nobody managed to cure Barclay, and numerous seasons of watching Counselor Troi nag people to talk about their feelings doesn't lead me to believe they know anything more than we do about human psychology.
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Oct 24, 2015 05:59
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Even Bashir says that the human brain remains an enduring mystery, so even in the 24th century, the mind is truly the final frontier. If only the Federation hadn't culled all the religious people, they might have a Buddhist hanging around to explain poo poo to them.
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Oct 24, 2015 06:05
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