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I think you're overthinking it. Just approach it pragmatically from what you need: "Coworker, are you going to be in on Monday? I was thinking of refactoring the blah controller, but I wanted your input." or, "Manager, do you know if Coworker is going to be in today? I know he's usually out Mondays and Tuesdays, but I'm blocked until he returns on the blah controller." If he has some medical / family / strange PTO arrangement, the manager should be aware and can let you know: "Oh, Coworker is going to be out M-T for the next five weeks. Do the best you can, and he will look at it when he gets in Weds." If he doesn't have an arrangement, you've let the manager know that your coworker is out regularly and it's affecting your work. It's not throwing him under the bus to relay facts - if he is indeed no-call, no-showing, you're not required to cover for him.
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Oct 23, 2015 14:50
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asur posted:Asking your manager about a coworker's personal life is not professional and talking to the manager at all is potentially throwing them under the bus, though that shouldn't matter all that much. If you have a good personal relationship with the person, I would just ask. If you don't or want to approach it professionally, then determine how their behavior is negatively impacting your work, what they could do to lessen the impact, and then approach them or the manager with that information. In this case, the issue seems to be not so much that the coworker is absent, but that they are not communicating when they will be absent so ask them to update their calender or whatever method the company uses to communicate when people will be available. I never suggested asking a manager about a coworker's personal life. That's nonsense. I suggested asking if everything is okay. That's it. Or don't go to the manager, go to the guy first. It doesn't really matter. vonnegutt and Doctor w-rw-rw- and everyone else who is acting casual as gently caress about a dead simple boring routine happening at the office is correct. There's a million ways to do this while remaining totally professional and not looking like a total goon.
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Oct 23, 2015 19:08
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Tao Jones posted:You could also ask your co-worker what the most convenient way to get in touch with him during work hours is for times when he's out of the office and something urgent comes up. (This assumes a certain level of professionalism on their part, naturally, but I think it's better to try a bit of honey first before going for a confrontation.)
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Oct 23, 2015 19:11
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sink posted:I never suggested asking a manager about a coworker's personal life. That's nonsense. I suggested asking if everything is okay. That's it. Or don't go to the manager, go to the guy first. It doesn't really matter. I had a manager in a previous job who, after a while, started reliably missing Mondays. Then it was reliably Mondays and Tuesdays. Then it was reliably Mondays, Tuesdays and Wednesdays. Then he went on disability. We knew something was up, but we didn't really find out until he went on disability. It definitely caused a lot of tension in the team, plus we were operating without a manager most of the time and lost our main avenue of communication with the direction of the rest of the tech group. Point is, you can bring it up with your manager without straight-up asking whether your co-worker is spending his days at the methadone clinic. You can just ask whether something's up with your co-worker in a non-specific way; if your manager says there is, you can probably leave it at that because you know it's on their radar. If they don't know what you mean, you can get it on their radar.
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Oct 23, 2015 19:35
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Or you can just be a human being capable of empathy and ask your coworker if everything is ok and how you can get in touch with them on Monday/Tuesday or who you should talk to if you can't reach them. Jesus Christ people, this isn't hard.
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Oct 23, 2015 20:12
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Blinkz0rz posted:Or you can just be a human being capable of empathy and ask your coworker if everything is ok and how you can get in touch with them on Monday/Tuesday or who you should talk to if you can't reach them. Except that genuine empathy is not consistently rewarded and sometimes punished. Caution is natural in such a situation.
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Oct 23, 2015 20:29
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Skandranon posted:Except that genuine empathy is not consistently rewarded and sometimes punished. Caution is natural in such a situation. I can't tell if you agree with what I wrote and are lamenting that empathy can be punished or if you're being a goony motherfucker. In either case, be a human being instead of a beep beep boop boop what are feelings robot.
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Oct 23, 2015 21:04
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This isn't hard. You take a poo poo on your desk, take over his desk, and beat anyone who questions you with a baseball bat while screaming "why" over and over again
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Oct 24, 2015 00:25
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baquerd posted:This isn't hard. You take a poo poo on your desk, take over his desk, and beat anyone who questions you with a baseball bat while screaming "why" over and over again
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Oct 24, 2015 00:29
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Blinkz0rz posted:In either case, be a human being instead of a beep beep boop boop what are feelings robot. Watch it. Someday a robot might read this bigoted filth and torture a hundred thousand copies of your personality as reconstructed from your postings.
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Oct 24, 2015 00:30
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Talk to your Dev manager and be like, "hey, coworker X just stopped showing up on Mondays and Tuesdays, is this some kind of HIPPA think l thing or what? Because I think it may begin impacting the project soon if we don't reschedule these important Monday and Tuesday meetings. Should we just email him the weekly minutes or how should we handle that?" Managers exist to run stuff up the flagpole like this and get an answer back without divulging too much personal info. Google "HIPPA".
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Oct 25, 2015 06:35
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You've got to be kidding me. If you go to your manager and it's not something that your coworker has worked out with the manager for whatever reason, you're narcing them out and that's a dick move. Just talk to your co-worker and ask him what's up. Easy as that.
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Oct 25, 2015 13:29
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The "dick move" is his co-worker not showing up to work and avoiding obligations. If it's a legitimate issue and it's already been worked out with management, bringing it up with the manager is no harm, no foul. If it's a legitimate issue and it hasn't been worked out with management, then it provides an opportunity to do so. If it's not a legitimate issue, then it's a step on the path to removing somebody from the team who's not carrying their weight. Even in the United States of Libertopia there exist a fair number of short-term disability provisions for white-collar workers, his company probably has them, and his co-worker can use them if that's what's necessary. It's not his job to play team policeman, that's the manager's job. Confronting somebody about delinquency may sour things permanently between him and that person. Companies have HR departments and management chains to deal with this kind of thing. Let them deal with it instead of being a vigilante. This isn't about not having empathy, this is about protecting yourself from interpersonal repercussions and having the people whose job it is it to deal with personnel matters deal with personnel matters.
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Oct 25, 2015 14:32
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Or you could be a human being capable of empathy and pop in to the coworkers office and be like "hey what's going on man, how you doing?" Conversation is a real thing and you can be friendly with your colleagues instead of a spergy loving robot. HR exists to resolve disputes and as an extra layer to indemnify the company. If actually talking to the coworker results in a hosed up personal relationship, that's when you should involve HR or management. Throwing your coworker under the bus without any information about how his behavior is affecting you is a lovely thing to do and indicative of the behavior of a fundamentally broken person.
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Oct 25, 2015 15:28
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By the way, every single comment in this thread that suggests going to management about this is perpetuating the weird individualistic behavior that programmers tend to have by throwing your coworker under the bus and possibly getting a good person who might be having a tough time fired. Don't encourage this behavior. We're all in this together and being lovely to your coworkers is bad even if they're inadvertently making your life a little tougher.
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Oct 25, 2015 15:30
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Blinkz0rz posted:Throwing your coworker under the bus without any information about how his behavior is affecting you is a lovely thing to do and indicative of the behavior of a fundamentally broken person. How is it throwing him under the bus? The term "throw someone under a bus" implies they did nothing wrong and are just getting blamed for some issue. This isn't an imaginary issue, the guy is legit not showing up to work, does not have contingencies in place for when that happens, and other people need his input. Talking to the manager how to proceed with work when the main contributor is now longer around is exactly what he is supposed to do. Guy is lying in the road waiting for a bus to hit him, not OPs job to pick him up or throw himself in front of the bus first. Skandranon fucked around with this message at 15:33 on Oct 25, 2015 |
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Oct 25, 2015 15:31
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It absolutely is the OP's job to help pick him up. That's just being a good colleague and a decent person. Regardless, if the choice is between working the issue out with the person or narcing on them to management the choice is pretty clear and anyone advocating talking to management is a lovely person.
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Oct 25, 2015 15:45
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Blinkz0rz posted:It absolutely is the OP's job to help pick him up. That's just being a good colleague and a decent person. How is it narcing? Management isn't "da police", they are part of the team as well. OP has work to do. OP needs Guy to get work done. Guy isn't at work Mondays and Tuesdays, so OP can't get work done. It's OPs bosses job to decide how to handle the situation. Maybe OP should take over the project entirely, maybe Guy should spend some more time documenting, or maybe Guy is being an rear end in a top hat. If there is a legitimate reason for him missing all this time, it was on Guy to work it out with management so things like this don't come up.
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Oct 25, 2015 16:04
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All I'm saying is that instead of going to management first, OP should just ask the guy if everything is ok. Talking to management about this is the nuclear option because it forces a decision. The dev manager will either see the OP as a whiny baby that can't work out an issue with another person or will be forced to take action against the coworker in some way so as not to appear too lenient. Neither of these options is good and the whole thing can be short-circuited by just TALKING TO YOUR COWORKERS. God drat.
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Oct 25, 2015 16:11
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Blinkz0rz posted:All I'm saying is that instead of going to management first, OP should just ask the guy if everything is ok. More swearing doesn't make your point or prove you are a better person. No decent manager is going to come down on the OP for asking for direction on how to proceed with a critical part of the team just not being there 2/5ths of the time, that's a team level issue. If OP doesn't get something done because he was waiting on Guy, his manager WILL come down on him for not bringing it up sooner. You seem to be absolving Guy of any responsibility in this issue. If he was sick, or has some family crisis, or otherwise legitimate issue, he should have let his manager know why he is only working 60% of the time. If it needed to be kept hush hush, he should have taken the initiative and talked to OP and worked it out so OP wouldn't be left hanging. This is almost entirely upon Guy, and if OP is feeling large he can try to rescue him, but it is probably not in OPs best interests.
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Oct 25, 2015 16:21
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Who cares why Guy is out? The reasonable thing to do is find out from Guy why it's happening and try to work it out with him first before involving management. Doing anything else is basically just being a tattletale and if Guy finds out will instantly create a bad relationship there.
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Oct 25, 2015 16:24
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Skandranon posted:More swearing doesn't make your point or prove you are a better person. No decent manager is going to come down on the OP for asking for direction on how to proceed with a critical part of the team just not being there 2/5ths of the time, that's a team level issue. If OP doesn't get something done because he was waiting on Guy, his manager WILL come down on him for not bringing it up sooner. Hey, or maybe, just maybe don't be a loving narc and possibly ruin someone's life. What the gently caress is wrong with you loving lunatics. This is why people think people in tech are weird losers with no social skills. "Bluh bluh bluh he's not pulling his weight!" gently caress off you nerdlinger, don't cry to teacher because you might have had to work a little harder. You loving go to a human being ask them whats up and confront them about it if they are assholes about it and not giving a sufficient response then you bring it to management. I cannot believe that we have to explain this poo poo to supposed adults.
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Oct 25, 2015 16:48
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Give me more just world fallacies so that I can insult your lonely horrible existence you goddamn weird assholes.
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Oct 25, 2015 16:49
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Seriously: gas thread, ban op.
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Oct 25, 2015 16:52
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Blinkz0rz posted:Who cares why Guy is out? The reasonable thing to do is find out from Guy why it's happening and try to work it out with him first before involving management. You think the OP should care why Guy is out. I certainly don't. I don't think it matters at all. If he was making sure OP wasn't waiting on him to get his work done, he could be snorting coke off hookers for all I care. Fact is, he's letting OP down. A tattletale would be "I saw him using Facebook for 15 minutes more than is allowed in the employee manual". Saying "I've got all my tasks done, but Guy has yet to review it, and he's been missing our regularly scheduled meetings on Tuesdays, and hasn't gotten back to me on X" is not. Guy is loving up, and it will hurt OP and everyone around him. If it HAS been addressed with management already, then there is no harm, manager will say "Oh, right, Guy won't be at work Mondays/Tuesdays, I forgot to mention it. Just commit your code/take more responsibility and try to talk to him on Wednesday about what's going on".
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Oct 25, 2015 16:53
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Skandranon posted:You think the OP should care why Guy is out. I certainly don't. I don't think it matters at all. If he was making sure OP wasn't waiting on him to get his work done, he could be snorting coke off hookers for all I care. Fact is, he's letting OP down. A tattletale would be "I saw him using Facebook for 15 minutes more than is allowed in the employee manual". Saying "I've got all my tasks done, but Guy has yet to review it, and he's been missing our regularly scheduled meetings on Tuesdays, and hasn't gotten back to me on X" is not. Guy is loving up, and it will hurt OP and everyone around him. If it HAS been addressed with management already, then there is no harm, manager will say "Oh, right, Guy won't be at work Mondays/Tuesdays, I forgot to mention it. Just commit your code/take more responsibility and try to talk to him on Wednesday about what's going on". "A bloo bloo my poo poo is the only thing that matters gently caress other people" is all I'm reading.
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Oct 25, 2015 16:54
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The US's focus on STEM education is literally destroying soft skills like "working on a team" and "being a decent person".
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Oct 25, 2015 16:54
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Blinkz0rz posted:"A bloo bloo my poo poo is the only thing that matters gently caress other people" is all I'm reading. You sound like the Guy in question now. No wonder you sympathize with him so much.
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Oct 25, 2015 16:56
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Skandranon posted:You think the OP should care why Guy is out. I certainly don't. I don't think it matters at all. If he was making sure OP wasn't waiting on him to get his work done, he could be snorting coke off hookers for all I care. Fact is, he's letting OP down. A tattletale would be "I saw him using Facebook for 15 minutes more than is allowed in the employee manual". Saying "I've got all my tasks done, but Guy has yet to review it, and he's been missing our regularly scheduled meetings on Tuesdays, and hasn't gotten back to me on X" is not. Guy is loving up, and it will hurt OP and everyone around him. If it HAS been addressed with management already, then there is no harm, manager will say "Oh, right, Guy won't be at work Mondays/Tuesdays, I forgot to mention it. Just commit your code/take more responsibility and try to talk to him on Wednesday about what's going on". I DID MY WORK, TEACHER BUT DANNY, DIDNT THAT MEANS IM BETTER THAN HIM AND HE SHOULD BE PUNISHED!!!
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Oct 25, 2015 16:56
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Skandranon posted:You sound like the Guy in question now. No wonder you sympathize with him so much. nice one, you really showed that guy who was showing human compassion and decency. haha yea bro. this is why youre the best bro
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Oct 25, 2015 16:58
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its a dog eat dog world bro! haha yea man!
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Oct 25, 2015 16:58
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Skandranon posted:You sound like the Guy in question now. No wonder you sympathize with him so much. You're a sad human being if you read this situation as competitive or oppositional in any way. Guy isn't instantly a shithead because he's not in the office on Monday and Tuesday. At worst, his offense is that he didn't notify OP that he'll be out two days a week.
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Oct 25, 2015 16:59
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Rexicon1 posted:I DID MY WORK, TEACHER BUT DANNY, DIDNT THAT MEANS IM BETTER THAN HIM AND HE SHOULD BE PUNISHED!!!
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Oct 25, 2015 17:00
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You know I think it's fairly obvious that the slacker dude just asked his boss "can I take the first two days of the week off because I'm forced to work with that one loving goonlord?"
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Oct 25, 2015 17:02
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In this thread, we see goons unironically pushing for Labor to collude with Capital to punish one of their own. Unbelievable.
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Oct 25, 2015 17:04
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I bookmarked this thread quite a while ago to catch a glimpse of the ye oldies of the programming world... how the hell has this become a thread where someone can't figure out basic office etiquette like 'working with a non-robot co-worker'?
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Oct 25, 2015 17:10
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carry on then posted:In this thread, we see goons unironically pushing for Labor to collude with Capital to punish one of their own. Unbelievable. It's a universal fallacy that programmers share: because they don't actually ever have to do anything productive, they conclude they're not workers even though they still prostitute a good chunk of what meager number of decades they have been allotted to be alive - to be thinking, feeling persons instead of dust - being at the beck and call of others.
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Oct 25, 2015 17:12
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Jerry Cotton posted:It's a universal fallacy that programmers share: because they don't actually ever have to do anything productive, they conclude they're not workers even though they still prostitute a good chunk of what meager number of decades they have been allotted to be alive - to be thinking, feeling persons instead of dust - being at the beck and call of others. Yeah but my 401k is on track.
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Oct 25, 2015 17:19
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mrmcd posted:Yeah but my 401k is on track. 
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Oct 25, 2015 17:35
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Literal sociopaths ITT.
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