|
The book he read was just marketing material for Age of Sigmar.
|
#
?
Oct 23, 2015 18:58
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 22, 2024 11:19 |
|
|
Skandranon posted:Can someone elaborate on how his origin story started? Last time we talked about it, he basically read a book which said "Sigmar sucks! Oh and you are going to murder your family and become our Everchosen because you read this book" which he proceeds to do. This is all that happened. Nothing about Archaon has ever been interesting. At least there's a badass Dragon Ogre Shaggoth you can play instead of that loser.
|
|
#
?
Oct 23, 2015 19:21
|
|
|
GyverMac posted:Okay, so people have the ability to do a total convert of Rome 2 into say, a rennaissance themed game, complete with new character models and mechanics? I didnt know that. Our metrics for good mod support are pretty different here. Warscape might be a lot harder to do full conversions on, by the nature of it being a much more complex engine, but I have modded every game in the series since Shogun II on this engine and it is probably the most pain free experience doing so of any game I've done this for, which is about 10-12 different titles at this point. I can change faction names, faction colors, banners, starting locations, settlements, turns per year, unit listing per faction, custom battle assignments, unit size, unit equipment ( and variant meshing), unit XP modifiers, building traits, building trees, economic values for the entire campaign map, AI aggression values, unit priorities for AI recruitment... the list goes on. Literally everything outside of changing the unit upgrading system and messing with the physical campaign map I've been able to do through a giant set of VERY accessible tables with an open source tool and/or through the tools provided by CA themselves. Did you know that in Rome 1 you had to hand paint any texture changes to a unit, whereas in Warscape games it's all done through the meshes and masks? Move a unit to a new faction, and it's given the correct faction colors, even the unit icon is correct. Modding R:TW or M2 required you to dig through poorly organized text files for hours. Sure you may have been able to do more in the long run but it also took those dudes like 2-10 years to get a product out and the release pages are still covered in bug/crash warnings because it's cobbled together. Since figuring it out, which took less then a day, I can add a new unit, with a custom variant mesh, unit icon, and full faction details to Shogun, Napoleon, Rome 2 or Attila in about 15 minutes now. Good luck doing that in Rome 1. I don't see how the engine being far more difficult to mod into an entirely different game was somehow done with the explicit purpose of forcing you to buy DLC. Especially considering the fact that with the tools mentioned above, I can generally unlock DLC additions, like the new units, without ever buying those unit packs. Mazz fucked around with this message at 20:01 on Oct 23, 2015 |
|
#
?
Oct 23, 2015 19:29
|
|
|
I am insanely loving stoked to wreck some puny dwarfs as a goddamn chaos dragon ogre. I really hope this game is good.
|
|
#
?
Oct 23, 2015 19:57
|
|
|
I seriously don't understand how the Empire can fight in anything near parity with the ridiculousness i've seen from the Dwarves or Chaos. That will be hell to balance.
|
|
#
?
Oct 23, 2015 20:06
|
|
|
Tanks
|
|
#
?
Oct 23, 2015 20:12
|
|
|
Guns. Also, dwarves don't have cavalry. And there are more Imperials than either of the other two. Empire's big thing is mostly that the Empire has access to everything. Artillery, gunlines, heavy cavalry, wizards, etc.
|
|
#
?
Oct 23, 2015 20:21
|
|
|
Mans posted:I seriously don't understand how the Empire can fight in anything near parity with the ridiculousness i've seen from the Dwarves or Chaos. The gryphon cavalry seem to be pretty insanely strong--a unit that hits that hard with that much mobility will be a big threat to misplaced artillery or vulnerable wizards. The tanks will also be a big ole pain in the rear end to deal with I'm sure. I'm more worried about the Orcs. Their ranged options seem to be pretty non-existent. The Doom Diver catapult seems to be complete garbage compared to what we see from Dwarf or Empire artillery. Hopefully their unit numbers are just absolutely massive--I want to be able to outnumber Dwarfs or Humans 4 to 1 and just drown them in Boyz since their support options are looking lackluster. Their giant spiders and giants don't seem to dish out very much punishment. Although the Foot of Gork (or is it Mork?) and other Orky spells do seem to be pretty good. This is a little worrisome--hordes of infantry with almost no range options and limited support in the form of magic is how the VC's are supposed to operate so I hope they don't step on each other's toes.
|
|
#
?
Oct 23, 2015 20:22
|
|
|
I would imagine the greenskins get rock lobbers at the least.
I can have moments of... eccentricity and sometimes be quite curious about things. Please forgive me if I do something foolish or rude.
|
|
#
?
Oct 23, 2015 20:28
|
|
|
Mans posted:I seriously don't understand how the Empire can fight in anything near parity with the ridiculousness i've seen from the Dwarves or Chaos. The Empire will level the playing field through excellent mustaches, puffy sleeves, seasoned with a good dose of old fashioned gently caress You.
|
|
#
?
Oct 23, 2015 20:29
|
|
|
Mans posted:I seriously don't understand how the Empire can fight in anything near parity with the ridiculousness i've seen from the Dwarves or Chaos. Humans and Orcs have the usual jack of all trades shtick. So they can use magic, artillery, good cavalry, and good troops. Orcs trade off better troops and monsters for worse artillery and ranged options. Really I think it will be hardest to balance chaos and counts.
|
|
#
?
Oct 23, 2015 20:29
|
|
|
Night10194 posted:Guns. Also, dwarves don't have cavalry. And there are more Imperials than either of the other two. Yeah it's the most balanced faction, even though it doesn't have things like huge monsters or other tricks.
|
|
#
?
Oct 23, 2015 20:32
|
|
|
etalian posted:Yeah it's the most balanced faction, even though it doesn't have things like huge monsters or other tricks. Instead of huge monsters, they have steam tanks. Which evens out I think. I can have moments of... eccentricity and sometimes be quite curious about things. Please forgive me if I do something foolish or rude.
|
|
#
?
Oct 23, 2015 20:34
|
|
|
Also lots and lots and lots of cheap dudes with guns. Gunpowder is a pretty nifty equalizer when you have an ordinary man against some eight-foot tall monstrosity.
|
|
#
?
Oct 23, 2015 20:36
|
|
|
I mean, I always thought that was a big part of the setting. The Chaos Gods having their giant hellvikings but suddenly facing the equalizer of black powder and it maybe forcing them to adjust, too.
|
|
#
?
Oct 23, 2015 20:39
|
|
|
Stephen9001 posted:Instead of huge monsters, they have steam tanks. Which evens out I think. Well, they do also have one (1) Imperial Dragon. But since it's literally the only one ever owned and tamed by the Empire it may only be brought to battle when ridden by Emperor Karl Franz himself, so it's not exactly a regular fixture. 
|
|
#
?
Oct 23, 2015 20:43
|
|
|
Perestroika posted:Well, they do also have one (1) Imperial Dragon. But since it's literally the only one ever owned and tamed by the Empire it may only be brought to battle when ridden by Emperor Karl Franz himself, so it's not exactly a regular fixture. Wait, so he has a choice to ride his badass immensely loyal Griffon or an even more badass (but I somehow suspect less loyal) dragon? drat, Karl really is one pimping emperor. I can have moments of... eccentricity and sometimes be quite curious about things. Please forgive me if I do something foolish or rude.
|
|
#
?
Oct 23, 2015 20:56
|
|
|
While wielding the hammer of his god, yes.
|
|
#
?
Oct 23, 2015 20:57
|
|
|
Valten carries Ghal Maraz now, Franz went back to the Runefang. Gotta keep your relgious fanatics happy.
|
|
#
?
Oct 23, 2015 23:30
|
|
|
Stephen9001 posted:Wait, so he has a choice to ride his badass immensely loyal Griffon or an even more badass (but I somehow suspect less loyal) dragon? drat, Karl really is one pimping emperor. The Imperial Zoo gives Karl all kinds of crazy poo poo to ride at his choosing
|
|
#
?
Oct 24, 2015 00:32
|
|
|
Skandranon posted:Can someone elaborate on how his origin story started? Last time we talked about it, he basically read a book which said "Sigmar sucks! Oh and you are going to murder your family and become our Everchosen because you read this book" which he proceeds to do. He read containing the ravings of Necromo the Insane. As the name suggests, he's effectively the universe's stand-in for the Necronomicon and, like that, everything written down is effectively true. His works are listed as heretical but, as you might guess from the fact that one of the big temples of Sigmar happened to have one around, the temples themselves keep them instead of burning them, as works by him are kept for reference by the highest and most dedicated figures for potential use in the darkest times. So something in there regarding the nature of the gods and Chaos sent him into a betrayed rage, but it's never really elaborated on. I think it can be generally assumed that the Templar that became Archaon wasn't exactly vetted to go looking at them, and/or stumbled across one that hadn't been gone through before. As for who Necromo was, I think there's a reference that Tzeentch basically stuffed him full of knowledge at some point, which drove him completely insane, but I don't really remember. He's come up and been referenced in other works occasionally as well. jfood posted:Valten carries Ghal Maraz now, Franz went back to the Runefang. Gotta keep your relgious fanatics happy. Isn't Valten dead and/or retconned out of existence?
|
|
#
?
Oct 24, 2015 00:36
|
|
|
Mans posted:I seriously don't understand how the Empire can fight in anything near parity with the ridiculousness i've seen from the Dwarves or Chaos.  They have seen some poo poo!
|
|
#
?
Oct 24, 2015 01:06
|
|
|
fatherboxx posted:
This guy's Tilean though isn't he?
|
|
#
?
Oct 24, 2015 01:18
|
|
|
I'm pretty sure Bernhardt is from Altdorf. Lord Koth posted:Isn't Valten dead and/or retconned out of existence? Everyone is dead, everything has been retconned out of existence, but Valten was kickin' about during The Great Plot Device.
|
|
#
?
Oct 24, 2015 01:31
|
|
|
The Chaos Beastmen are the remains of Humans affect by the warp. Many of them are malformed babies that were left in the forest to die, but rather then perishing they were adopted into pre-existing savage tribes. The Beastmen hate the civilisation that rejected them and desire to burn it all to the ground. While they serve the same gods as the Chaos Warriors, they consider the warriors to be tryhard posers while they view themselves as innate beings of Chaos. There is a long running guerilla conflict raging between the Beastmen and the Wood Elves for control of Athel Loren. The Beastmen want to control this softspot between dimensions as they believe they may be able to use it to rip a new warp gate open in the middle of the Old World. The Elves and forest spirits will fight to the last to prevent this from happening. Beastmen primarily live in the forests of the old world and are another candidate for an early DLC faction. Gors are the most common form of Beastman and they are the Medium Infantry of the montrous army. They can be armed with a variety of different weapons and like most Beastmen deploy in fast moving mobs and skirmish formations.  Ungors are a smaller and weaker kind of Beastman. They are ok in a fight though they have somewhat low morale. Their job is to support the heavier Gors and move quickly to flank the enemy.  Ungors can also wield bows to serve as ranged skirmishers. These Ungor Raiders are suprisingly dangerous for a low status unit, but they still suffer the low morale of all Ungors.  When flanks need covering or enemy artillery need to be munched, the beastmen send in their Chaos Warhounds. These fast creatures are good on the attack though they have poor armour and are easily spooked.  The versatile Beastman Chariot can fill a fast skirmishing role or smash into the flanks with a deadly charge attack. Beastmen are terrible at building things however, and these chariots are a bit more flimsy then other nation's machines.  Minotaurs are huge, fast moving flankers that can tear through most enemy units. These blood thirsty monsters can be hard to command once they're in a fight, and their light armour means you need to keep them away from enemy ranged units.  The heavy elite infantry of the Beastmen are the Bestigors. They are disciplined enough to fight in ranks, wear heavy armour and wield great weapons. The Bestigors form the anchor of any Beastman army.  If a tuskgor manages to avoid being eaten it eventually grows into a Razorgor. The massive, mutated boars smash into enemy ranks and tear away at whoever is still standing. They're fast moving creatures and can run down the flanks to hit heroes and special units.  Razorgors can also be tamed to a sufficient degree to pull chariots. These Razorgor Chariots are better suited to a line breaking role then the Tuskgor chariot, but their engineering is not any better.  Centigors are medium cavalry that can be equipped with either spears or great weapons for charge attacks, or throwing axes for heavy ranged support.  The light flyers of the Beastman army are the Harpies. These monsters are good for hunting artillery and covering flanks though they can't stand up in a prolonged brawl.  Beastmen can recruit giants. They're just like the other giants you've seen.  Chaos Spawn also end up in Beastmen armies. These unpredictable monsters add some deadly horror to the beast's army.  Cygors throw massive rune covered boulders at their enemy thereby filling the role of long range artillery support. Their single eye is blind to the material world and instead sees the threads and flows of the warp. The Cygor can see all forms of magic and gains bonuses when fighting any magical being or anything armed with magical weapons. Spell casters freak out then the Cygor comes close as they can sense that it wants to eat their souls.  The Ghorgon is a terrifying monster, so mutated by warp energies that even the Beastmen don't truly know what may have originally been. The Ghorgon will shred any unit it comes into close combat with and will feast on its victims. It lacks armour however so it needs to be kept clear of gun lines and monster hunters.  One of the most bizarre creatures in all Warhammer is the Jabberslythe. This winged warp mutant hits hard in battle, can fire at range and is so ugly that nearby units run the risk of going insane if they look at it. It's a versatile and dangerous top-tier unit for the Beastmen. 
|
|
#
?
Oct 24, 2015 02:29
|
|
|
Lord Koth posted:He read containing the ravings of Necromo the Insane. As the name suggests, he's effectively the universe's stand-in for the Necronomicon and, like that, everything written down is effectively true. His works are listed as heretical but, as you might guess from the fact that one of the big temples of Sigmar happened to have one around, the temples themselves keep them instead of burning them, as works by him are kept for reference by the highest and most dedicated figures for potential use in the darkest times. So something in there regarding the nature of the gods and Chaos sent him into a betrayed rage, but it's never really elaborated on. I think it can be generally assumed that the Templar that became Archaon wasn't exactly vetted to go looking at them, and/or stumbled across one that hadn't been gone through before. In the novel, it's a bit different. Necrodomo is a Tilean astrologist writing the Celestine Book of Divinations. They're far reaching and accurate prophecies, but none too scary, yet. Still, he gets captured by Imperial witch hunters and tortured into confessing/repenting. However, Be'lakor crashes his interrogation, burns the interrogators, and uses Necrodomo and his prophecies as a vessel to write the origin of Archaon. A few chapters end with Archaon dieing, but then Be'lakor rewrites fate and the next continues differently. Since Be'lakor is cursed to be unable to become Everchosen himself, he plans to jack Archaon's body once he ascends. Deidrick Kastner is the son of a peasant fisherman's wife raped when her village is raided by Norscans. She dies in childbirth, and he's left at a Sigmarite chapel. He takes the family name of the drunken knight who squires him, and grows into becoming a formidable warrior. A silent flagellant named Gorst follows him around and he takes a squire named Emil. One day, he and his squire come across a mutant baby left to the elements. Emil is too squeamish to kill it, so a beast woman takes it. They follow the beasts woman back to their camp and Kastner kills them, rescuing a young novice in a Sigmarite order named Giselle. Emil gets mauled by he beastmen's hounds and Kastner gets a piece of warpstone lodged in his eye. They trudge back to Dagobert, the old priest who raised Kastner, where it's revealed that Giselle was transporting The Celestine Book of Divinations and keeping it out of the hands of some chaos warriors that seem to be looking for it. The Sigmarites keep it because it details the end of he world and it might be used to prevent it. While nvestigating this, they're ambushed by knights from Altdorf looking for Kastner and are saved by the chaos warriors, silent men in identical suits of armor who seem drawn to Kastner. Dagobert starts translating the book and finds its about Kastner. One important page detailing the origin of the Everxhosen is missing, however. He's a wanted man, and so is anyone associated with him. The appearance of the chaos warriors seals his fate. They go to the Kastner's manor and find them killed by the Imperial knights. Kastner starts to get bitter, and resolves to find it. Dagobert and Giselle try to dissuade him, but have to go along because they have no where else to go. He sneaks into Altdorf through the the sewers and goes to the Arch Lector's cathedral where the page is held. Stinking, missing an eye, betrayed by his countrymen, stalked by chaos creeps, and with warpstone pumping radiation into his brain, he prays to Sigmar, and feels only crushing silence in response. He snaps and attacks the Arch Lector, who tells him him that the page said the man who would become Archaon would do what he was doing right then. Right then, he resolves to destroy the Empire, humiliating the false god who abandoned him, and the world, starving the chaos gods who torment him. Knights and artillery converge on the cathedral, but he escapes with the chaos Warriors' help again. He heads to the Chaos Wastes to pursue his destiny, using the book as a guide. Dagobert, Giselle, and Gorst have no choice but to tag along. The warriors become his first Swords of Chaos, and the others are trapped in a weird, horrible codependency. Dr Christmas fucked around with this message at 04:14 on Oct 24, 2015 |
|
#
?
Oct 24, 2015 04:10
|
|
|
So there's a guy who wants to be Everchosen, but for some reason he can't be even though he can loving rewrite fate? But the everchosen is an idiot that can't remove a rock from his eye?
|
|
#
?
Oct 24, 2015 06:23
|
|
|
Nasgate posted:So there's a guy who wants to be Everchosen, but for some reason he can't be even though he can loving rewrite fate? Be'lakor is the first daemon prince. For his pride, he was cursed by Tzeentch to crown each Everchosen with the Crown of Domination, but never wear itself. He can control fate, but not as well as Tzeentch. As much Be'lakor wants Archaon ascend so he can become his vessel, Tzeentch and the rest of the gods want Archaon to ascend so they can laugh when Be'lakor pratfalls so close to his ultimate victory, again. Trying to remove the warp stone chunk was one of Archaon's deaths. It was really lodged in there. Since it was warpstone, it may have very well been trying to lodge itself in. As he goes through the Chaos Wastes, it comes to act as a replacement eye that can see the currents of magic. Dr Christmas fucked around with this message at 06:44 on Oct 24, 2015 |
|
#
?
Oct 24, 2015 06:36
|
|
|
I mean, the Chaos Gods' big unkillable guy in both 40k and Fantasy is a magnificently stupid rear end in a top hat. It's one of the linkages between the settings.
|
|
#
?
Oct 24, 2015 06:37
|
|
|
So what happened to Giselle, Gorst and Dagobert?
|
|
#
?
Oct 24, 2015 06:51
|
|
|
Aren't Beastmen irredeemably bawd in tabletop? As in they have never been competitive ever?
|
|
#
?
Oct 24, 2015 06:55
|
|
|
fatherboxx posted:
Man I hope these dudes make it into the game.
|
|
#
?
Oct 24, 2015 07:05
|
|
|
Megasabin posted:Aren't Beastmen irredeemably bawd in tabletop? As in they have never been competitive ever? They've never been the most competitive faction but they were particularly hit hard in 8th edition as the rules for skirmishing units were nerfed. They're the faction that will benefit the most form the transition to Total War.
|
|
#
?
Oct 24, 2015 07:12
|
|
|
Megasabin posted:Aren't Beastmen irredeemably bawd in tabletop? As in they have never been competitive ever? Yes, just yes. Decent strength, but no armor worth mentioning along with effectively no ranged options and only mediocre initiative means they die to basically everything, and they're not particularly cheap or packing any number of dirty tricks like goblins and skaven. Hell, the first edition they got their army book was the same one where High Elves started getting ASF on everything. There's a reason High and Dark Elves, Empire, and Dwarves have generally stayed pretty consistently high in effectiveness rankings, only occasionally eclipsed by other things that happen to work very well in a specific edition. Warriors of Chaos suffer from similar problems, though the fact that they have both a good stat line along with excellent armor moves them up to being mediocre, since at least they tend not to die to random dudes with bows. Again, effectively no ranged options(the Hellcannon is a cruel joke, especially after they removed the most amusing misfire in later iterations of it; that one at least was funny) combined with their good troops being incredibly expensive means you have to pray that the artillery line you're likely staring down has horrible dice luck. Or run mostly marauders and run into the same problems beastmen do.
|
|
#
?
Oct 24, 2015 07:29
|
|
|
Dr Christmas posted:Be'lakor is the first daemon prince. For his pride, he was cursed by Tzeentch to crown each Everchosen with the Crown of Domination, but never wear itself. He can control fate, but not as well as Tzeentch. As much Be'lakor wants Archaon ascend so he can become his vessel, Tzeentch and the rest of the gods want Archaon to ascend so they can laugh when Be'lakor pratfalls so close to his ultimate victory, again. So it's basically Big Boss' horn from MGSV?
|
|
#
?
Oct 24, 2015 07:51
|
|
|
Buschmaki posted:So it's basically Big Boss' horn from MGSV? If it was made out of crystallized evil, yeah.
|
|
#
?
Oct 24, 2015 08:20
|
|
|
Lord Koth posted:Yes, just yes. Decent strength, but no armor worth mentioning along with effectively no ranged options and only mediocre initiative means they die to basically everything, and they're not particularly cheap or packing any number of dirty tricks like goblins and skaven. Hell, the first edition they got their army book was the same one where High Elves started getting ASF on everything. There's a reason High and Dark Elves, Empire, and Dwarves have generally stayed pretty consistently high in effectiveness rankings, only occasionally eclipsed by other things that happen to work very well in a specific edition. Actually WoC were a high tier army before the world exploded. Yes, the warriors themselves aren't so hot but it turns out that being able to field a bunch of hard as nails flying monsters on the cheap is quite a good thing. Beastmen have indeed sucked for a very long time, which is expected given their army book is over a decade old.
|
|
#
?
Oct 24, 2015 08:33
|
|
|
GW is very stupid and assumed nobody liked beastmen and thus didn't update their rules, leading to them sucking more, and less people buying them, therefore justifying, to GW, the idea nobody liked them. This happened to several other armies as well. GW is very stupid.
|
|
#
?
Oct 24, 2015 08:41
|
|
|
Megasabin posted:Aren't Beastmen irredeemably bawd in tabletop? As in they have never been competitive ever? No, for the first two editions when they were released the standard troops all had two wounds and were cheap as hell, they had great tarpits and really strong magic. The tar pits were not really tar pits though because they could carry two handed weapons or spears and wreck face.
|
|
#
?
Oct 24, 2015 09:06
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 22, 2024 11:19 |
|
|
Why are these models so terrible when the basic Gors look great?
|
|
#
?
Oct 24, 2015 10:14
|
|
