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Always remember, don't help a stranger, it'll cause a chain reaction leading to something much worse; and don't speak up if you know someone is abducting women, it'll work itself out  Edit: the more time that passes the madder I'm getting about that ending. I need to settle down and be happy that I didn't need to take that choice. a kitten fucked around with this message at 00:45 on Oct 24, 2015 |
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Oct 24, 2015 00:00
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So, uh... Why is it just assumed that Arcadia Bay getting wrecked means it's all even? Did I miss something? Why wouldn't reality keep coming apart at the seams until Chloe dies? In which case the ending isn't 'Sacrifice Arcadia Bay' so much as 'sacrifice anyone unfortunate enough to be near us forever'.
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Oct 24, 2015 00:06
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Poizen Jam posted:So, uh... Why is it just assumed that Arcadia Bay getting wrecked means it's all even? Did I miss something? Why wouldn't reality keep coming apart at the seams until Chloe dies? In which case the ending isn't 'Sacrifice Arcadia Bay' so much as 'sacrifice anyone unfortunate enough to be near us forever'. It doesn't make sense. The ending is a massive pile of contradictions, plot holes, and heavy-handed author interference. Try not to let the cognitive dissonance you feel as you compare episodes 1-4 with episode 5 drive you mad. Alternatively, a wizard did it.
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Oct 24, 2015 00:39
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Flowey from Undertale is actually behind it at all and he gave Max the ability to SAVE to just cruelly gently caress with her because Flowey is a massive dick like that.
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Oct 24, 2015 00:41
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The storm is just gonna follow Chloe around like the worst puppy ever.
a kitten fucked around with this message at 00:44 on Oct 24, 2015 |
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Oct 24, 2015 00:42
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exquisite tea posted:She does use her powers in that timeline though -- five years ago, to save William's life. The normal flow of events is disrupted. Why this leads to the same exact disasters seen in the game's timeline can be explained by "video games." If you wanna get metaphorical about it, you can view Chloe as the game's representation of the divine storm, as her survival ensures the destruction of Acadia Bay. Note how in Episode 1 Max gets a second vision of the tornado after Chloe says "I wanna drop a big loving bomb on this town." Chloe is in effect the storm here. I don't agree with the first part: Max is in Timeline 1 and, when she goes back five years to save William, she's still in Timeline 1, just in the past. Making William stay home does create Timeline 2, but in this new reality William being alive is the normal flow of events. Five years later, Max wakes up in Timeline 2, taking control of Alternate Max. No time travel ever occurred up to that point. Stuff happens and she eventually returns to Timeline 1 (well, she creates Timeline 3 which is almost but not quite identical to Timeline 1... if you want to be a turbo nerd). Moriatti posted:I think Alt. Max's powers manifested from a much younger point, which is why she is in with the Vortex Club in episode 4. Here's what Alternate Max had to say in her journal before being commandeered by "our" Max. Can't get any more "wink wink this Max can't or doesn't know she can time travel" than this. Poizen Jam posted:So, uh... Why is it just assumed that Arcadia Bay getting wrecked means it's all even? Did I miss something? Why wouldn't reality keep coming apart at the seams until Chloe dies? In which case the ending isn't 'Sacrifice Arcadia Bay' so much as 'sacrifice anyone unfortunate enough to be near us forever'. seravid fucked around with this message at 00:53 on Oct 24, 2015 |
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Oct 24, 2015 00:44
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a kitten posted:The storm is just gonna follow Chloe around like the worst puppy ever. Seriously the universe really wants her dead. Maybe the storm is just trying to make sure Chloe dies before she is 21 in every reality and you are standing in the way of that. Eggplant Squire fucked around with this message at 00:57 on Oct 24, 2015 |
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Oct 24, 2015 00:53
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The storm was sent by the vengeful spirit of Rachel Amber and can only be satisfied by the deaths of Nathan and Jefferson. Chloe's death short-circuits this by giving Rachel's spirit something else to focus on before the storm can really get underway.
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Oct 24, 2015 01:52
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drat I really liked this episode up till that last bit; is there some rule that every time travel story has to be about how you can't change things because I'm pretty sick of that. Also it kind of falls apart if you think about it I still recommend this game to everyone though
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Oct 24, 2015 02:27
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RentACop posted:drat I really liked this episode up till that last bit; is there some rule that every time travel story has to be about how you can't change things because I'm pretty sick of that. Also it kind of falls apart if you think about it I still recommend this game to everyone though
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Oct 24, 2015 02:32
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exquisite tea posted:If OG Max jumped from a point that was situated after the events of Episode 5, then she wouldn't have caught up to herself on autopilot. What's more, she wouldn't have conscious memories of time travel because she jumped to a point prior to her knowing about them and, if you chose the Arcadia Bay resolution, would never even know they existed. Yeah, but once again, this makes no sense as a starting point for her to go back. Is she sacrificed Chloe she doesn't need to go back to do it again. If she sacrificed the bay, she doesn't have the photos.
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Oct 24, 2015 02:36
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Accordion Man posted:Play Ghost Trick and Chrono Trigger. But don't play Chrono Cross. Ghost Trick's plot was everything I wanted out of a game that used basically the same time travel mechanics as this one. RentACop posted:drat I really liked this episode up till that last bit; is there some rule that every time travel story has to be about how you can't change things because I'm pretty sick of that. Also it kind of falls apart if you think about it I still recommend this game to everyone though Yeah I thought the Dark Room bits and nightmare worlds were actually really well done and the ending just flubbed it. Someone compared it to Mass Effect 3 and that feels pretty true. Eggplant Squire fucked around with this message at 03:22 on Oct 24, 2015 |
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Oct 24, 2015 03:20
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Radish posted:Seriously the universe really wants her dead. Maybe the storm is just trying to make sure Chloe dies before she is 21 in every reality and you are standing in the way of that. I just assumed that Chloe's death is unrelated. Killing Chloe later on doesn't stop or even reduce the storm so it doesn't make a lot of sense for the storm to be after chloe, in particularly in light of the fact that she can simply walk out of the range of it. For me it is far more likely that the storm is localized to 'attack' the place where the time travel manifested. So the second Max starts using her time travel powers that somehow prompts the storm through chaos theory/natural defense/whatever to bear down on Arcadia bay, which means the only way to avoid the storm is to do what Max did, to go back to the very first instance where she time traveled and to simply not do that thing. It's still possible that the universe is pissed off at Chloe for being alive, but the lack of appreciable difference if she's dead makes that seem a little less likely to me than the storm as a way of saying "gently caress YOU DON'T TIME TRAVEL BITCHES"
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Oct 24, 2015 03:32
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RentACop posted:drat I really liked this episode up till that last bit; is there some rule that every time travel story has to be about how you can't change things because I'm pretty sick of that. I'm one of the people who was really affected by the ending, and that's not the message I got. There are two stories told here that are fairly different depending on which ending you pick. If you choose to sacrifice the Bay, you're explicitly choosing to reject the futility of fatalism. Chloe was fated to die in that restroom, and you bend reality itself to save her. There is a cost, because of course there is. That's fiction, that's drama. Without the cost the choice is meaningless. You know how people will say "I would give anything to have (special person) back in my life?" Max is given the chance to actually enable that bargain. There are many people who would absolutely do the same if the cosmos gave them the chance to save a loved one. If you choose to sacrifice Chloe, then Life is Strange is a... I don't want to say "redemptive" story for Chloe because that word doesn't exactly apply, but my vocabulary is failing me for finding a more accurate descriptor. Chloe, entering that restroom to die at Nathan's hands, is an unfulfilled wreck of a person. From her perspective, she has been abandoned first by her father, then by her best friend, then again by the woman she loved. She was betrayed by her mother who married David and forced to live under the same roof as a semi-abusive rear end in a top hat. Chloe would die feeling alone, unloved, worthless. Divine intervention gives Max a chance to delay that and show Chloe that her life did have value. Max and Chloe reconnect, and Chloe learns to trust again, and comes to understand that despite their physical and social separation, Max did still love and care about her. Rachel may not have been the perfect woman Chloe had loved, but she at least learns of her fate and has a chance for closure. She even begins to come to terms with her mother's remarriage and that, yes, David is an rear end in a top hat but he did love Chloe even if he has no healthy way of expressing that to her. In short, she begins to heal. And while she may still pass on in the restroom, those days spent in limbo with Max were real, and she is able to move on not in pain, but in peace. (Remember, Chloe is the butterfly; its reappearance at her funeral is a reaffirmation that Chloe is at peace.) Life is Strange, then, is not a story about saving Chloe, but about saving Chloe's soul. Max's efforts throughout the week absolutely aren't futile; she gives Chloe a chance to feel the love and friendship and gratitude for her existence that Chloe had lost the capability of seeing on her own. In my mind, Life is Strange isn't a "time travel story" in the sense that time travel is important to the emotions behind the story. It's the narrative mechanism that gets the plot moving and gives Max the chance to save her friend--physically in the Sacrifice Bay ending, spiritually in the Sacrifice Chloe ending--but the mechanics behind it are far less important than the meaning and purpose it gives to both Max and Chloe. The Sacrifice Bay ending is shorter, but I don't think that's because one ending was favored over another, but just that narratively it had less to do than the Sacrifice Chloe ending. Chloe an Max reaffirm their relationship, they deal with the consequences of Max's decision, and they live on. I'm not sure there's much else they could have done that would have meaningfully added to what we saw. I understand where comparisons to ME3 come from--games with branching narratives that converge on a single exclusive decision at the end--but where that comparison fails for me is that the entirety of Life is Strange built towards its possible endings. Whichever choice Max picks at the lighthouse is a natural resolution to what her and the player experience; just about every major event and previous choice is building Max and the player to accept the consequences of their final decision. ME3's ending was mechanically similar but didn't narratively or thematically fit with the series at all, it just makes something happen so the story can end. I'm not meaning to single you out or attack you or say you're wrong, by the way. I'm just trying to explain (for my own benefit, really, to help process the emotions I'm feeling after the game) what I got out of the story and why the endings worked for me.
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Oct 24, 2015 03:56
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Karnegal posted:Yeah, but once again, this makes no sense as a starting point for her to go back. Is she sacrificed Chloe she doesn't need to go back to do it again. If she sacrificed the bay, she doesn't have the photos. What I'm suggesting is that neither of those scenarios happen prior to the timeline of Life is Strange. The game we play through is a smaller part of Max's Polaroid hopping adventure in an effort to resolve what happens at the end, looping through who knows how many alternate realities, until the timeline is restored and can move forward.
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Oct 24, 2015 04:25
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RentACop posted:drat I really liked this episode up till that last bit; is there some rule that every time travel story has to be about how you can't change things because I'm pretty sick of that. Also it kind of falls apart if you think about it I still recommend this game to everyone though Except you change time in hundreds of different ways, it's not a "do" or "do not" scenario, it's more about giving a finger to the world, or just sitting idly by. Karnegal posted:Yeah, but once again, this makes no sense as a starting point for her to go back. Is she sacrificed Chloe she doesn't need to go back to do it again. If she sacrificed the bay, she doesn't have the photos. Nah, she still has her photos, you erase the timeline Jefferson destroyed them in.
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Oct 24, 2015 04:39
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YorexTheMad posted:If you choose to sacrifice Chloe, then Life is Strange is a... I don't want to say "redemptive" story for Chloe because that word doesn't exactly apply, but my vocabulary is failing me for finding a more accurate descriptor. Chloe, entering that restroom to die at Nathan's hands, is an unfulfilled wreck of a person. From her perspective, she has been abandoned first by her father, then by her best friend, then again by the woman she loved. She was betrayed by her mother who married David and forced to live under the same roof as a semi-abusive rear end in a top hat. Chloe would die feeling alone, unloved, worthless. Divine intervention gives Max a chance to delay that and show Chloe that her life did have value. Max and Chloe reconnect, and Chloe learns to trust again, and comes to understand that despite their physical and social separation, Max did still love and care about her. Rachel may not have been the perfect woman Chloe had loved, but she at least learns of her fate and has a chance for closure. She even begins to come to terms with her mother's remarriage and that, yes, David is an rear end in a top hat but he did love Chloe even if he has no healthy way of expressing that to her. In short, she begins to heal. And while she may still pass on in the restroom, those days spent in limbo with Max were real, and she is able to move on not in pain, but in peace. (Remember, Chloe is the butterfly; its reappearance at her funeral is a reaffirmation that Chloe is at peace.) Life is Strange, then, is not a story about saving Chloe, but about saving Chloe's soul. Max's efforts throughout the week absolutely aren't futile; she gives Chloe a chance to feel the love and friendship and gratitude for her existence that Chloe had lost the capability of seeing on her own. That's lovely, but when Max goes back in time, she erases all those experiences. Chloe enters the bathroom as she did the first time, those days of revelations and happiness never having happened. This Chloe, through no fault of her own, is denied salvation - physical or otherwise - and dies alone, hating herself and everyone else. Unless you're saying saving Original Chloe's soul transcended realities? Seems like a pretty paper-thin justification for abandoning your best friend/lesbian lover yet again 
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Oct 24, 2015 04:41
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exquisite tea posted:What I'm suggesting is that neither of those scenarios happen prior to the timeline of Life is Strange. The game we play through is a smaller part of Max's Polaroid hopping adventure in an effort to resolve what happens at the end, looping through who knows how many alternate realities, until the timeline is restored and can move forward. I mean, ultimately one or the other has to happen in any timeline that goes past Friday. Either the storm hit and hosed poo poo up or Chloe died and we got no storm. I mean, I guess she could have come from a timeline where the storm hit AND Chloe died after, but that seems like a stretch. What we learned from the game is that Chloe's death diffuses the storm for whatever reason - maybe it functions as a sacrifice to the angry nature gods (Whatever, the why is irrelevant). So if Max cam from a sacrifice Chloe timeline, then the storm was averted and she knows that the storm was averted because she lived past that date. If she saved Chloe in that time line, then she knows that the storm hit, and the only reason to go back would be to sacrifice Chloe. The only other option is that she came from a timeline where Chloe's death and the storm are unrelated. If that's the case then we all hosed up because presumably you could save both Chloe and the town if you tried enough. Unless I misunderstand you and you're saying the storm vision in ep1 is unlinked to time travel, because everyone I've heard argue that the game we play isn't the first cycle through the time loop is arguing for the tornado vision an instance of time travel rather than a prophetic vision.
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Oct 24, 2015 04:47
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seravid posted:I don't agree with the first part: Max is in Timeline 1 and, when she goes back five years to save William, she's still in Timeline 1, just in the past. Making William stay home does create Timeline 2, but in this new reality William being alive is the normal flow of events. Five years later, Max wakes up in Timeline 2, taking control of Alternate Max. No time travel ever occurred up to that point. Stuff happens and she eventually returns to Timeline 1 (well, she creates Timeline 3 which is almost but not quite identical to Timeline 1... if you want to be a turbo nerd). Main timeline Max only found out she could time travel on October 7th, so I don't think that really tells us much.
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Oct 24, 2015 04:50
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The first ending is more about accepting the inevitability of death and that bad things happen in the world, seemingly for no reason. The second ending is all about letting your best friend and lover ascend to her rightful place as the Sword of God and reap great vengeance upon the wicked.
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Oct 24, 2015 04:52
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Aerial Tollhouse posted:Main timeline Max only found out she could time travel on October 7th, so I don't think that really tells us much. The trigger being Chloe's death in a crummy bathroom. Not a chance of that happening in this reality since Blackwell are a bunch of assholes who rejected Mecha-Chloe. Also, that doesn't contradict what I've said about there being no time travel up to the point where Original Max assumes direct control of Alt. Max.
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Oct 24, 2015 04:57
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Karnegal posted:I mean, ultimately one or the other has to happen in any timeline that goes past Friday. Either the storm hit and hosed poo poo up or Chloe died and we got no storm. I mean, I guess she could have come from a timeline where the storm hit AND Chloe died after, but that seems like a stretch. What we learned from the game is that Chloe's death diffuses the storm for whatever reason - maybe it functions as a sacrifice to the angry nature gods (Whatever, the why is irrelevant). So if Max cam from a sacrifice Chloe timeline, then the storm was averted and she knows that the storm was averted because she lived past that date. If she saved Chloe in that time line, then she knows that the storm hit, and the only reason to go back would be to sacrifice Chloe. The only other option is that she came from a timeline where Chloe's death and the storm are unrelated. If that's the case then we all hosed up because presumably you could save both Chloe and the town if you tried enough. I'm proposing that the beginning vision of the tornado is a fractured piece of Max's consciousness from other realities, in the same way the nightmare sequence represents this altered consciousness, or the spirit doe that only she can see. We are not playing through the OG Max's consciousness but rather what happens whenever she leaves a Polaroid and creates an alternate timeline to her own. Another reality is created, one where she will discover her time travel powers, and continue looping back around until she allows either Chloe to die or the tornado to destroy the town. The events that we play through are just one of the realities that actually resolve instead of getting profoundly hosed up to the point where Max gets stuck and can't jump anymore.
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Oct 24, 2015 05:07
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seravid posted:That's lovely, but when Max goes back in time, she erases all those experiences. Chloe enters the bathroom as she did the first time, those days of revelations and happiness never having happened. This Chloe, through no fault of her own, is denied salvation - physical or otherwise - and dies alone, hating herself and everyone else. I guess that is what I am saying, yes. I'm not saying it makes chronological, metaphysical sense (hell, I don't personally even believe in the existence of a "soul" in the first place), but that was the meaning and emotion that the funeral scene conveyed to me. To read it as otherwise strikes me as horribly nihilistic, which I don't believe was the intent of the creators. If nothing else, that week's Chloe was real to Max and thus was real to the universe of Life is Strange.
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Oct 24, 2015 05:11
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They're all real and they all deserve to be saved. Original Chloe dies in the storm by choice. She's at peace with herself and the world. You saved her and redeemed yourself from abandoning her five years ago. Alt. Chloe only got one day with Max but even that was enough to feel loved. She dies by choice. You saved her and redeemed yourself from abandoning her five years ago. Final Chloe is gunned down in the bathroom, her heart filled with hatred and loneliness. You abandoned her for the second time. I just can't read that as anything but depressing. The blue butterfly only a cruel reminder of your failure.
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Oct 24, 2015 05:23
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Yeah it's definitely a little depressing, but also...beautiful, in a way? I mean most people don't get five extra days to right their wrongs and make peace with the world. The game made me think a lot about those instances in my own life, what I would have done differently. At the same time I think the game also suggests that the question of who "deserves" or doesn't deserve anything is irrelevant. Bad things happen no matter what, and the only thing we can do is accept the consequences and hope we made the right decision. People arguing over what is the better choice are totally missing the point, I think.
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Oct 24, 2015 05:39
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exquisite tea posted:Yeah it's definitely a little depressing, but also...beautiful, in a way? I mean most people don't get five extra days to right their wrongs and make peace with the world. The game made me think a lot about those instances in my own life, what I would have done differently. At the same time I think the game also suggests that the question of who "deserves" or doesn't deserve anything is irrelevant. Bad things happen no matter what, and the only thing we can do is accept the consequences and hope we made the right decision. People arguing over what is the better choice are totally missing the point, I think. This. Saving Chloe or not saving Chloe isn't futile because ~~ time is unable to be altered ~~, it's trying to say that there will always be bad in life, and it's more of how you accept it that is the choice.
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Oct 24, 2015 05:44
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Well, didn't expect the Evangelion Instrumentality Nightmare Sequence. Not, at all. I hosed the world and saved Chloe but I must admit that this ending feels particularly hollow, which fits since it's a rather selfish decision and doesn't artistically flow from everything that preceded. Heck the Nightmare sequence pretty much serves to convince the player to accept the true, mature ending - namely Choe's death. --------- Well off to brave Alpha Warren in the locker rooms to get all the achievements. Wish me luck.
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Oct 24, 2015 06:17
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A take away for me was that nobody--living--really knew Chloe. Through Max and her reconnecting during the erased alternate timeline that happens in the course of the game, she gets to live on through Max's memories of her, etc. Maybe knowing that she wasn't so lucky caused Rachel to go all spirit animal and save Chloe from that same fate. Or not. The source of Max's powers and the whole ghost deer thing is left vague in the extreme. It's all pretty bittersweet at best no matter what your interpretation of the ending, but that's okay. I was a little 'meh' at the ending at first, but it's grown on me. I was mostly still rolling my eyes during it after realizing that the ending was just the usual thing of being up to a binary choice at the end like pretty much every game ever but I got over it. The Chloe Lives ending is kinda lame, but it sorta had to be in my opinion. Bad ending and all that. I don't think the game needed to congratulate you for having Max refuse to accept that some things can't/shouldn't be changed and let everybody else pay for it. Chloe probably died later that day due to a Slurpee related accident anyway, leading to more time shenanigans and Max ultimately having to choose between letting her die or saving 7-11 from a meteor or something. LiS 2 here we come!
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Oct 24, 2015 07:53
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Best part of the nightmare bit:
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Oct 24, 2015 16:31
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Just started this game about a week and a half ago, and my husband and I finished it this morning. We were grateful for the opportunity to finally let Chloe die. The ending was fantastic. I wonder if the final choice is so close to 50/50 because people load up the final section and check out the other ending, or if 45% of people (and 60% of my friends list) actually liked Chloe that much. I thought the whole final chapter was great. It was definitely my favorite overall. The writing, action, and scenarios were all stepped up a notch. I liked how many callbacks there were to all the decisions we made in the past. It would have been cool if there were several different endings like TWD S2, but the main ending probably wouldn't have changed.
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Oct 24, 2015 17:10
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John Dough posted:Best part of the nightmare bit I think you'll find it was this part. Skip to 40 seconds in. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vApX-v-nCnw
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Oct 24, 2015 17:14
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Buzkashi posted:My best friend and I are basically under the impression that the only people who are sacrificing Arcadia Bay are doing it out of irony or spite, because I think only a complete monster would honestly be like "Yes Chloe I'm totally okay with your mom dying horribly in a diner explosion so I can have you all to myself forever." You and your friend are pretty simple, huh?
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Oct 24, 2015 17:45
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Mr. Belding posted:You and your friend are pretty simple, huh? They've already mentioned since how another explanation in this thread helped them understand the other choice better, hth
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Oct 24, 2015 17:58
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YorexTheMad posted:I'm not meaning to single you out or attack you or say you're wrong, by the way. I'm just trying to explain (for my own benefit, really, to help process the emotions I'm feeling after the game) what I got out of the story and why the endings worked for me. No that's cool, it's been interesting reading everyones takes on the ending. Personally I've been rolling it around in my head and I always end up back at disappointed though, I guess it feels like they went for bittersweet but just hit bitter instead
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Oct 24, 2015 18:37
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a kitten posted:Always remember, don't help a stranger, it'll cause a chain reaction leading to something much worse; and don't speak up if you know someone is abducting women, it'll work itself out Repeat from earlier in the thread: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NpYEJx7PkWE Although I guess it's kinda interesting how the "Good" ending is nihilistic as gently caress while the "Bad" ending is presented as optimistic. What's good isn't always right 
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Oct 24, 2015 20:22
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The more I think about it the more I think it's incorrect to view one ending as "good" and one ending as "bad". They're both bad. That's kind of the point. From the very beginning, every choice has been very ambiguously presented as to whether or not it's the "right" thing to do. Report Nathan? Morally the right thing to do at face value, but it only results in being harassed by him and his father while the principal does nothing but drink and feel sorry for himself. Steal the money? Morally wrong at face value, but that money was only being used for a bribe, and with you it can actually save one, two, or three lives. The final choice is that, but on a much larger scale. Neither choice is right. Both have reasons you should and reasons you shouldn't. In the end, it all depends on who you are as a player and who Max is as your avatar. And my avatar Max is literally gay af so
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Oct 24, 2015 21:34
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Plom Bar posted:Steal the money? Morally wrong at face value, but that money was only being used for a bribe, and with you it can actually save one, two, or three lives. 
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Oct 24, 2015 21:41
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Just lmao at those endings. What a mess. I liked how they referenced their bullshit bottles fetching quest during the stupid unnecessary trippy stealth section, though. Otherwise, nothing loving mattered. Either you kill a whole bloody town, or everyone including Kate is safe regardless of your choices. I know time travel is hard, but drat it, it all resolved in the dumbest way possible. Oh no, Max, it was you, you've caused the tornado because, uhm, quantum chaos and, uh, reasons. Yeah, sure. Like, it would be better, if they just did the Donnie Darko ending. At the very least Warren is now my boyfriend, so you all can go gently caress yourselfies.
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Oct 24, 2015 21:42
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If Max caused all this she should have just gone back and strangled herself with her umbilical cord, obviously.
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Oct 24, 2015 21:50
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The only acceptable ending would have been Lavos rises from the sea and destroys everything.
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Oct 24, 2015 21:56
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