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Yes, start with the MSX games first, so everything makes sense (no, it still won't) I think even Kojima said if you are new you should start with MGS3 since its solid gameplay is a good introduction to the series.
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Oct 26, 2015 23:27
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Definitely agree with going in order of release. Watching Kojima piece everything together as the series goes is pretty neat, and it also lets you appreciate the evolution of the gaming mechanics, which is one of the things he has always been incredibly concerned with. Each new MGS has this weird relationship with previous games where it both recontextualizes them and is contextualized by them, and I think that aspect is more important than anything that playing in chronological order has to offer.
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Oct 26, 2015 23:32
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A Steampunk Gent posted:Anyway, I apologise for going straight to snark earlier on, I didn't mean to drag this down into a forum slapfight, I just fundamentally disagree with everything you've written! You don't have to agree but you don't have to be an enormous oval office about it either. This is just goon mockery cargo cult behaviour. Lemme reiterate where I'm coming from: if there's a ruse, it's not going to be possible to make sense of it unless you're on board with the rusery. I'm not absent of self-awareness, it was a conscious decision to try to examine the game from this perspective, based on the content of the game suggesting it and the context around the game strongly reinforcing the possibility. I can explain that though, and post any amount of evidence, and apparently I'm still going to have to deal with boring fucks trying to win internet cool points by bravely championing the majority opinion. Which is why I initially said I didn't want to explain theories but then someone asked me to elaborate and now I'm Kyoon, the famous videogames poster. mangosteen groverhaus faaaaaaaaaaart You disingenuously accuse me of fixating on minor details and ignoring the rest of the game, but what I think I'm doing is looking at the very few smoking guns in the game which force a reconsideration of the entire plot in which other oddities indisputably present in the shipped game begin to make sense. We're all on the same page about the basic story and the official version of the story regarding development problems, but what if the point is that the basic story is misleading and meant to be inverted? It would be completely in line with the statements the director has made. quote:So with that in mind, discusssing the hidden meaning of a shack outside of the level geometry or why NPCs blink oddly just strikes me as a waste of time when nothing you've said suggests they're actually tied in any way to the concepts or ideas raised in the game
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Oct 26, 2015 23:58
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Anyway shut the gently caress up and look at this: during the mission 31 cutscene when the camera pans from sahelanthropus to skully you can see explosives attached to the fallen tower: Sahelanthropus then kicks the tower onto him (7m40s) along with a weird cut back to venom, and he's trapped under there until we beat the boss and get the Kaz helps you shoot scene. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jlNOXI_nR5g&t=408s There's no reason for this demolition pack to be here, the only place I remember something like this is according to the Chico tapes, there was C4 planted on the struts in 1975 (and you see them starting to detonate as you fly in). You never see "XO" during the Ground Zeroes battle, I wonder where he was standing when this crane comes down. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l1Ns1Fj138k&t=135s Edit: is it just me or does that GZ falling tower sound like a roaring monkey gundam? diamond dog fucked around with this message at 00:45 on Oct 27, 2015 |
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Oct 27, 2015 00:42
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it was an inside job! this blows the whole thing wide open!!!
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Oct 27, 2015 00:46
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So apparently insurance doesn't cover nukes? The replay doesn't even mention any kind of disarming, dude just hopped in stole a couple containers and hopped out. Also apparently I stored my nuke on my least secure platform I guess? Way to evil genius Venom Snake e: apparently that is how nukes are stolen I guess I am the dumb. Still pissed insurance didn't cover cheese sandwich fucked around with this message at 01:04 on Oct 27, 2015 |
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Oct 27, 2015 00:54
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That terrible reddit thread already went crazy over that "C4" on the beam until someone else came in and showed that it was just a soldier's radio backpack that glitched out somehow. What looks like a red light on it is just an ember from the fire - you can see it move away if you go frame by frame.
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Oct 27, 2015 01:08
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SolidSnakesBandana posted:If people like you had their way, every movie would just be Transformers. Just turn off your brain and watch the pretty explosions! After all it's just a <media>. Thats not the issue, have you paid attention to the other games? They are stupid. Really great and fun, but stupid man. I would love some hyper thought out plot but all the work is in the gameplay(thankgod)
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Oct 27, 2015 01:14
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MGSV is also a fairly glitchy game in general, at least here on the PS3 version. I see dudes walk through each other all of the time (Such as the CFA Official and the Arms Dealer in The War Economy), I Wormhole Extract tanks after they've driven 10 feet away, guns float in midair, the AI gets caught in loops that prevent scripted events from happening etc.
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Oct 27, 2015 01:15
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Grizzled Patriarch posted:That terrible reddit thread already went crazy over that "C4" on the beam until someone else came in and showed that it was just a soldier's radio backpack that glitched out somehow. What looks like a red light on it is just an ember from the fire - you can see it move away if you go frame by frame. Oh. You're right, it's an ember. But those radios have red lights anyway? And why is it there though? "Glitched there somehow" is a superficial non-explanation for something carefully aligned with the tower geo, and I'd be surprised if those backpacks aren't baked into the enemy models. I'd buy "more deliberate bullshit" though.
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Oct 27, 2015 01:17
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Every person in this thread who claims to not believe all the clear signs of these twists is a Konami plant and all a part of the conspiracy.
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Oct 27, 2015 01:23
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diamond dog posted:Oh. You're right, it's an ember. But those radios have red lights anyway? And why is it there though? "Glitched there somehow" is a superficial non-explanation for something carefully aligned with the tower geo, and I'd be surprised if those backpacks aren't baked into the enemy models. I'd buy "more deliberate bullshit" though. I honestly don't know, I tried finding the post again but reddit's layout makes me feel like an old man and I can't find anything. They had pictures and the thing on the tower looks identical to one of the soldier backpack radios (assuming the XOF guys, since they are the only ones around, and I think their radios have a sort of "sleeve" that covers the red light that the Soviet radios have, but I'd have to go look around in-game). I don't know enough about how the game's guts operate to know how / why / if a backpack radio could end up in that position, but even the people that really wanted it to be something else seemed pretty well convinced. I'll sift around again and see if I can dig it up.
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Oct 27, 2015 01:24
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memy posted:There is the popular fan theory that MGS2 had a second twist- the whole game being all just a dream- that was retconned by MGS4. Bumping this but I feel like the idea of MGS2 originally being intended to possibly be interpreted as ending with Raiden being trapped into some kind of VR is one of the few "It was secretly a dream!" ideas that actually makes some amount sense, since, you know, the entire game was dealing with the ambiguity of reality anyways. It's still not 100% iron clad, but I think a decent interpretation could be argued in favor of it without dismissing too much of the game. Raxivace fucked around with this message at 01:31 on Oct 27, 2015 |
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Oct 27, 2015 01:26
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Raxivace posted:Bumping this but I feel like the idea of MGS2 originally being intended to possibly be interpreted as ending with Raiden being trapped into some kind of VR is one of the few "It was secretly a dream!" ideas actually makes some amount sense, since, you know, the entire game was dealing with the ambiguity of reality anyways. It's still not 100% iron clad, but I think a decent interpretation could be argued in favor of it without dismissing too much of the game. It kinda cheapens the point that reality is virtual, at this point. That is to say that the systems and mechanisms of information, and therefor perception, control virtualise the real. Algorithms are able to predict and then enact their virtual predictions onto the world to, say, recreate the conditions that produced Solid Snake. By Raiden still being in virtual reality, that suggests that there exists an intrinsic, non-constructed, real. This undermines the point of the whole story.
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Oct 27, 2015 01:31
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diamond dog posted:You don't have to agree but you don't have to be an enormous oval office about it either. This is just goon mockery cargo cult behaviour. Ok man. i think you're correctly perceiving that the game's story has many of the characteristics of fiction, and i would say that's because it is fictional, which is not a personal attack on you; but i truly don't believe that Metal Gear Solid is telling you to break into an abandoned building in New York City. Please don't do that
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Oct 27, 2015 01:32
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Yeah Bro posted:It kinda cheapens the point that reality is virtual, at this point. That is to say that the systems and mechanisms of information, and therefor perception, control virtualise the real. Algorithms are able to predict and then enact their virtual predictions onto the world to, say, recreate the conditions that produced Solid Snake. By Raiden still being in virtual reality, that suggests that there exists an intrinsic, non-constructed, real. This undermines the point of the whole story. I'm not sure what half of this post mean tbh. The half I did understand seemed interesting though so please elaborate on what you mean. Raxivace fucked around with this message at 01:39 on Oct 27, 2015 |
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Oct 27, 2015 01:36
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swamp waste posted:Ok man. i think you're correctly perceiving that the game's story has many of the characteristics of fiction, and i would say that's because it is fictional, which is not a personal attack on you; but i truly don't believe that Metal Gear Solid is telling you to break into an abandoned building in New York City. Please don't do that Grizzled Patriarch posted:I honestly don't know, I tried finding the post again but reddit's layout makes me feel like an old man and I can't find anything. EngineerSean posted:Every person in this thread who claims to not believe all the clear signs of these twists is a Konami plant and all a part of the conspiracy.
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Oct 27, 2015 01:47
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Raxivace posted:I'm not sure what half of this post mean tbh. It's fairly simple stuff. MGS2 is about simulation, that is the process by which information is used to create a prediction of the future. This future is then acted upon in the present, reshaping that future. This is a relatively new phenomenon, whereby the real follows the non-real, rather than the other way around. These systems of prediction and simulation are present in the real world, both through established norms (which is what Kojima is getting at with the whole "formed within the whitehouse" line) and artificially mechanically produced (the primary purpose of computers is as simulation machines, to interpret the future and give chance to change that future). MGS2 is essentially about the end point of this trend towards simulation, where all forms of information are controlled by a system that can simulate the future to such a degree that it can guarantee a precise future becomes reality. This is why Raiden still being within virtual reality cuts the significance of the text. If Raiden is in VR, then there is a real to escape to. If Raiden is in the real, then the real has become fully produced based upon simulation and has become virtual.
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Oct 27, 2015 01:56
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SolidSnakesBandana posted:MGS1... It's the basis of all the other games. SolidSnakesBandana posted:.. finally answering the question "Who the gently caress is this Big Boss guy everyone wont shut up about?" If you played the MSX games you wouldn't write this dumb poo poo
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Oct 27, 2015 02:50
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SolidSnakesBandana posted:I think Ocelot should have been replaced with Campbell. wow I read on to discover you must be trolling
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Oct 27, 2015 02:52
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diamond dog posted:Oh. You're right, it's an ember. But those radios have red lights anyway? And why is it there though? "Glitched there somehow" is a superficial non-explanation for something carefully aligned with the tower geo, and I'd be surprised if those backpacks aren't baked into the enemy models. I'd buy "more deliberate bullshit" though. I sincerely wonder if this game set off some latent schizophrenia or you suffered it for a long and this is just another conspiracy to add to the list
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Oct 27, 2015 03:00
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Its more entertaining than the plot to the actual game, so shine on you crazy diamond (dog)
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Oct 27, 2015 03:20
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swamp waste posted:Ok man. i think you're correctly perceiving that the game's story has many of the characteristics of fiction, and i would say that's because it is fictional, which is not a personal attack on you; but i truly don't believe that Metal Gear Solid is telling you to break into an abandoned building in New York City. Please don't do that I went back through his posts in this thread to see what this was referring to and got as far as diamond dog posted:i'll have you all know that i waited somewhere between 50 and 70 game hours (not including sleep) to jerk to quiet even once, to make sure it was okay This is so upsetting.
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Oct 27, 2015 04:06
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It's worth noting that Kojima really doesn't have any kind of 'ruse' going. He hasn't said anything (for or against) and seems to still be under his NDA. I'm betting that KojiPro is getting split off from Konami to do it's own thing or something mundane like that. The big story about him getting fired and marginalized just sounds a little too ridiculous, Japanese corporate culture notwithstanding. It's mainly the stuff like whenever there's some announcement like "Konami is giving up AAA gaming!" posted on a two bit french website that gets picked up by all these news outlets and we're all supposed to take it as gospel. All of the Kojima getting fired stuff is just rumors on top of rumors, and no real substantial evidence. Supposedly his contract is up in December, so that's how long I'm giving MGSV to get some kind of substantial update, by then even if he doesn't make any kind of statement I'm done, it's over. In the meantime I'm just gonna buy Mario Maker and play that while diamond dog goes nuts looking for something. Hope you find something buddy!
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Oct 27, 2015 04:17
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Full Battle Rattle posted:I'm betting that KojiPro is getting split off from Konami to do it's own thing or something mundane like that. No they didn't. They were renamed back to being a regular Konami branch. Like say what you want but there is a good amount of evidence about Konami's culture. Kojima isn't the only developer to leave them. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 05:21 on Oct 27, 2015 |
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Oct 27, 2015 05:17
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Modest Mao posted:I sincerely wonder if this game set off some latent schizophrenia or you suffered it for a long and this is just another conspiracy to add to the list I think when you start looking for oddities and contradictions in this game you find a lot of them. Combing back through cutscenes is what you do immediately after finishing a MGS game unless you don't want to try figuring things out yourself and in my case I'm also trying to analyse the marketing and construction of the game. I'm also blazed as gently caress as a matter of videogames and I'm aware this leads to awesome theories sometimes--consequently am not pretending to be certain about anything--and I'm enjoying the search. I am not talking about UFOs or bigfoot I am talking about a man called Hideo Kojima who has not done this particular thing before but has done other conceptual/meta format things and calls himself a Director and wasn't fired. I don't care what you call him, or pre-emptively whether you think my opinion doesn't matter because I'm a fan because that's circular logic. You guys remember the goldeneye thing and all the other poo poo on tcrf.net, well the people who make videogames in Japan do too. Actually they seem real serious or at least less self conscious about this poo poo if you've seen the collector segments in that show where that sweaty tracksuit guy plays games or read HCG101. This post-game mystery hunting narrative has happened over and over, yes. But that means it's a familiar narrative and a good designer might recognise that and I'm certain there are deliberate winks to the phenomenon in-game. And game engines (typically) aren't designed to keep secrets and in the age of datamining (and digital distribution) this period of post-game optimistic searching for blurry text about luigi doesn't last that long. With the exception of deliberate poo poo like that mountain in GTA (which I learned about from a Kojima tweet) that age is basically gone really, and all the examples you remember are mostly poo poo from the era of the egg thing in banjo kazooie (which was popular enough to be acknowledged in a port). But hey don't you remember that poo poo being fun? I don't blame you for disagreeing or anything besides being a dickhole but there's a decent chance that the game was intentionally designed to make anybody trying to figure it out it tick boxes in the social conditioning that makes you think I'm "crazy". And that's a really cool smart thing for a game to do and the medium supports it and why not? When I started to think this might be possible I decided to commit to the idea as a lens through which to examine the game until such time as I see something conclusive one way or the other as to whether this is the case, or I get bored of the game. I'm just posting about it and squirting my water pistol in random airvents to test theories, I'm not carving a mountain out of mashed potatoes, and everybody else is playing FOB mode and I'm spending way less time on this hobby than that guy in the other thread who has 286 hours of repetitively raiding the same 6 fob maps over and over. In the end I'll probably be wrong after someone says something conclusive in an interview or something. So what. I have a proposition for you goddamn awful self loathing nerds that can't disagree with me about a video game without immediately going to personal attacks: stop because I'm not going to stop sticking up for myself and my interpretation of this Metal Gear Solid Video Game based on anything but a better explanation than "sha-ders" for something that appears front and centre in a cutscene and that's all I want. Also I'm fairly certain this has gotten super loving tedious to read for everyone who isn't calling me names about a video game. Also I think it would be cool to be able to bring up Actual Things like the tower backpack and the green helicopter light for discussion without you hivemind fucktards harshing it. Redditors are retards who can't effectively prove or disprove anything and the format sucks. The thing that I thought was a bomb based on context is apparently a backpack , which I wouldn't have heard about if I hadn't posted about it. Actually what about if one of you stale jerks makes a neverbegameover mock thread and go jerk off over me there? Otherwise shut the gently caress up. Please make the thread though because I bet a critical eye on that sub would notice stuff (I'm not mega certain about this part it's just a strong hunch). diamond dog fucked around with this message at 06:13 on Oct 27, 2015 |
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Oct 27, 2015 05:37
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diamond dog posted:I'm certain there are deliberate winks to the phenomenon in-game. zelah posted:This is so upsetting.
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Oct 27, 2015 05:43
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I believe in diamond dog
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Oct 27, 2015 05:46
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diamond dog is a brainwashed double for kojima andNemesis Of Moles posted:I believe in diamond dog whoever you are
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Oct 27, 2015 06:01
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diamond dog posted:I work in games and I've written a bunch of special purpose games shaders and I think this is basically gibberish? Or are you talking about something specific to an engine I'm not familiar with or something? Can you elaborate? But gently caress all that, the real point is that out of the stuff I've read from you (which isn't a lot because there's a lot of it) this is the reachiest of all. Get back to the DD symbols at OKB, that's the real poo poo.
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Oct 27, 2015 07:10
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diamond dog can you analyze the following:quote:In my heart I just know that there's no way to light up the dark in his eyes Notice the plural form of "eye" even though Medic AKA Venom Snake AKA Kaz only has a single eye. I think I'm on to something here.
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Oct 27, 2015 07:57
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EngineerSean posted:diamond dog can you analyze the following: The answer is here.
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Oct 27, 2015 08:07
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I'm trippin man
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Oct 27, 2015 08:20
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DaveKap posted:In the Matrix there's a green tint inside the matrix and a blue tint in the real world, same poo poo here. Yeah this exactly (well, the colours are reversed). I think helicopter lights are the same shade of cyan everywhere in the game, this is the only time they show up green in both games. If it's a red overlay it wouldn't do this; and if it were a colour grading thing I'd expect the effect (if it is insignificant) to happen at one of the many other times in the game where there's fire/explosions and helicopters around, or just ever, anywhere besides this one time. I think this is a hint that everywhere else in the game we can't trust our eyes, because those lights are supposed be green and I am very skeptical that a major cutscene would have either a green light or a red tinted scene that also skews blue to green a small amount for no other apparent reason and which makes it looks correct, and have it be a coincidence that got past the development team and QA. Maybe though! Maybe someone knows of somewhere in the game where we can call pequod or see another cyan light that colour corrects cyan to green? Unfortunately the only repeatable way to trigger the use of the colour filter that I know of is the "critical injury" effect which only seems to take the red channel as input and does not affect the cyan lights at all. I took a quick stab at de-colouring to make the light match the colour it is a few seconds earlier in the same cutscene. Left is original, rectangles on right are the adjustment. Bottom is the same scene from GZ, which interestingly kinda looks like it has a blue reflection in the window (of a daylight sky and motherbase struts? Maybe a fisheye view of the AI pod's location? Someone tell me how to extract this cubemap), and the Paz cutscene windshield seems to be blueish as well after applying this transformation.  That stuff aside though the main reason I made this was to show just how subtle the alleged cyan -> green filter is on the rest of the scene. It's so subtle and everything else is dark/red and doesn't change much so why do it? Note you can do this in a couple logical ways but I didn't find other solutions where the 'true colour' wouldn't be something silly. Also the colour difference happens to be the inverse of a pleasing blue much like the medic's nametag/honey bee graffiti/port-a-johns. Those OKB/oil plant containers must mean something too but unless they have a readme hidden somewhere on the texture I don't think they're a good prospect for a way into the mystery until we've figured out other poo poo. I think Paz making a successful dive in the one version of the cutscene where we're not in the matrix is a much better place to start. Especially since she talks about having deep dive training for her mission in the Paz's Diary tapes in PW and GZ (this detail is omitted in in the version you get in TPP iirc) and did this once before already. However, the light is still blue when you see the guy fire the rocket so there might still be hijinx afoot, but to me it does at minimum confirm (a) what the other helicopter really looked like out of the different models we see in this "memory" and (b) from which character's perspective you see the cutscene (everyone else who was in the chopper before that strange split into two big bosses happens is visible besides Kaz, so we must be seeing from his POV, standing to the right of BB when whatever really happened happened). Interesting difference between the GZ and Paz choppers is that thing on the underside of the nose. Pequod also has one of these, but it's bigger and looks more like a d-walker head (bc he's a robot imo). Maybe this one is just a spotlight. Convenience repost: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2esGcZk2yRw Say it. Say that the light is green. EngineerSean posted:diamond dog can you analyze the following: this is what happens when i look in the mirror irl, only it's more of a scream, what does that mean diamond dog fucked around with this message at 10:30 on Oct 27, 2015 |
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Oct 27, 2015 10:25
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I'd like to apologize to the rest of this thread... but I'm so not sorry.
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Oct 27, 2015 10:28
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say it's green
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Oct 27, 2015 10:44
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on that note why does Ishmael have two functioning eyes that you can see clearly focusing on stuff with loving attention to detail
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Oct 27, 2015 11:23
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I don't even know what's happening.
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Oct 27, 2015 11:32
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Lunchmeat Larry posted:on that note why does Ishmael have two functioning eyes that you can see clearly focusing on stuff with loving attention to detail But he can't see through one, man. It's like, the Phantom Pain.
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Oct 27, 2015 11:34
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diamond dog posted:say it's green it's orange!!
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Oct 27, 2015 11:34
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