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People who say this feels like a good mod for L4D2 are being a bit unfair. I played Payday 2 and then tried L4D2 when it was free, and stopped playing because the gunplay felt so much worse. The combat in this game is visceral and rewarding, and for the price it is well worth the money. Hopefully they don't poo poo it up with a crapton of DLC like Payday. The communities for these kind of games is always terrible though. People get so angry and hostile at players who don't do things the optimal way, as if failing a mission equates to a waste of time. OK you didnt get a loot drop, oh no! Back in my day people played games because the very act of playing them is supposed to be fun. And yes I say this partly because I am not great. Also, why the hell can't there just be a shop or something where you can trade or buy stuff instead of waiting for loot. I'm level 15 and the highest I have ever rolled is a 4, even with two grimoires.
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Oct 27, 2015 13:46
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Kirs posted:Yesterday I tried to shove single Stormvermin inside fire on a trade square in Horn(y) map (one right after you blow up gates). Unfortunately it's only decorations. I was bullying a stormvermin hard on Morr yesterday by knocking it into the Globedier's gas cloud over and over until it choked. Good times.
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Oct 27, 2015 13:48
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All of the special skaven are far more dangerous than their L4D counterparts. I don't remember ever getting killed or even taking serious damage from a spitter while globadiers will gently caress your poo poo up real bad if you don't take them out quickly. Which is a good thing.
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Oct 27, 2015 13:50
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As a beginner, I'd be a lot happier if getting white items was a lot easier. Whether you can pick them up during missions (no loot roll required), smelt them from white resources, or whatever; a RNG system is pretty drat harsh for newbies if it's up to the loot gods whether you can even get to try out one of your class' weapons.
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Oct 27, 2015 13:50
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Rabelais D posted:People who say this feels like a good mod for L4D2 are being a bit unfair. I played Payday 2 and then tried L4D2 when it was free, and stopped playing because the gunplay felt so much worse. Play with goons.
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Oct 27, 2015 13:52
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Kirs posted:Play with goons. The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Games: Play with goons. Also, I wish there was a system for armor as well, not just weapons ,trinkets and hats.
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Oct 27, 2015 14:02
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toasterwarrior posted:As a beginner, I'd be a lot happier if getting white items was a lot easier. Whether you can pick them up during missions (no loot roll required), smelt them from white resources, or whatever; a RNG system is pretty drat harsh for newbies if it's up to the loot gods whether you can even get to try out one of your class' weapons. Being able to choose which white item you get on a level up would be a godsend. There's nothing worse with playing one class and then never actually getting new or better weapons for that class.
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Oct 27, 2015 14:10
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Kegslayer posted:Being able to choose which white item you get on a level up would be a godsend. There's nothing worse with playing one class and then never actually getting new or better weapons for that class. welcome to the Payday Loot Experience. I imagine its there because they feel it encourages replayability, which I do not buy as a valid reason since l4d had nothing of the sort and people still play it. Instead it just gives incentive to farm black powder over and over again and for pubbies to get real mad when you fail a long mission at the end.
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Oct 27, 2015 14:15
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On the flipside, the Loot means Pubbies actually put in some effort rather than DCing at the very first setback.
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Oct 27, 2015 14:23
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That Italian Guy posted:From a few pages ago, but this is actually not true for Stormvermin, at least on Normal. Got a blue axe and shield for the dorf with +2 stamina and 10% to heal 10% on heal and I'm in love. Also, the Stormvermin top down swing only seems to remove 4 shields for me now, which is weird since I remember it removing all 5 shields when I had a normal shield. Maybe it's tied to how close you are to the Stormvermin? This is a recent change, I believe a patch or two ago. Back in the beta trying to block a Stormvermin instantly crushed your guard regardless, but now it definitely doesn't.
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Oct 27, 2015 14:27
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I've played since the closed beta at the start of the month and you could always block Stormvermin if you had enough stamina  That's usually only the case for shields though, in which case it's better to just shove them and not take the hit.
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Oct 27, 2015 14:37
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ahaha gently caress me, i nearly managed to drag some pubbies across the loving finish line in the well mission. after barely saving the well with a bomb, a rat ogre showed up and killed everyone because most of them were too loving stupid or stubborn to heal each other and got killed one by one. i proceeded to kill four stormvermin with my 2handed hammer in a 1v4, grab a health kit from a dead player, run away from the rat ogre up a ledge, heal myself with the kit, run away from the ogre until another player appeared, used the flight gained by blocking an ogre strike to have enough space to pick up one of them, get another player up, run to the last player, and then loving die a slow and painful death as the other players gently caress around and the rat ogre corners me in a tiny room until he does enough ground smashes to incap me. i felt so good too, but it wasnt enough. 
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Oct 27, 2015 14:38
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Sometimes you can't carry hard enough. I have had multiple games where i've been the last one alive, perfectly parried gutterrunners and shot packmasters before they get to me, avoided a rat ogre, only for the pubstars to all run into a glob suicide charge as soon as I pick them up.
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Oct 27, 2015 14:41
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Did Black Powder (Hard) last night with some friends new to the game. Some highlights: -Gutter Runner pounces me so hard we break the law gravity and float to the moon. -A Pack Master hooks my friend next to the boat, and, as he gets sniped, drops my friend into the water for an instant death. -After we create a four barrel stockpile on the ground floor, someone's computer overheats giving us a bot. The bot then fights a horde in the middle of the barrel stockpile, causing a catastrophic chain of explosions that leaves nothing intact. -I complete a Nightmare run with one RL friend and two bots. That sure was... something.  I have yet to roll an orange (I'm level 26). I had to create my own last night from trash blues:  Yeah it's a one handed hammer, but I actually like the move set.
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Oct 27, 2015 14:43
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dogstile posted:Sometimes you can't carry hard enough. I have had multiple games where i've been the last one alive, perfectly parried gutterrunners and shot packmasters before they get to me, avoided a rat ogre, only for the pubstars to all run into a glob suicide charge as soon as I pick them up. I managed to explode twice as BW on Engines of War, which makes me a pretty loving lovely BW, but I'm still 110% sure that the pubbies would have been slaughtered five minutes into the run without me.
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Oct 27, 2015 14:49
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One really good thing about this game is the fact that everyone (except for the soldier) is ugly as all hells.
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Oct 27, 2015 14:55
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Alkydere posted:On the plus side I had the most GLORIOUS fat-finger on Smuggler's Run. Pressed T to call out a Storm Vermin during a gate-opening horde, accidentally fat-fingered 5 for my bomb while at it. Didn't realize it and clicked to swipe at the rats in front and instead nailed the Storm Vermin perfectly, sending him ragdolling into the stratosphere and wiping out a good chunk of the horde. That was a most glorious fat fingered  I've ever seen. The way the stormvermin just cartwheeled and exited stage right, while all of the clanrats surrounding him pratfalled, made me with I had fraps running at the time.Some good rat chopping last night, and hearing the witch hunter complain endlessly in Smuggler's Run was a treat.
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Oct 27, 2015 14:57
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This game made me upgrade my video card after years and years on an old card. The best praise 
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Oct 27, 2015 14:58
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ded posted:One really good thing about this game is the fact that everyone (except for the soldier) is ugly as all hells. The elf isn't ugly enough. I haven't actually read Warhammer Fantasy, but my understanding is that Warhammer elves are hated by the humans because they look all alien and disturbing with their jetblack eyes that are slanted like nostrils.
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Oct 27, 2015 15:03
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Donnerberg posted:elves are hated
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Oct 27, 2015 15:03
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Donnerberg posted:The elf isn't ugly enough. I haven't actually read Warhammer Fantasy, but my understanding is that Warhammer elves are hated by the humans because they look all alien and disturbing with their jetblack eyes that are slanted like nostrils. She has jet black eyes and her face is hidden behind a cowl. But no, humans don't hate elves because they look different. Human peasants fear them, but human nobles know what they look like because the high elves are technically allied with the Empire. It's just that all elves consider the humans to be barely-sentient chattel that doesn't deserve any rights, and think that it's totally okay to murder an entire village because a toddler urinated on some random moss-covered stone that used to be part of elven ruins.
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Oct 27, 2015 15:05
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Lemon Curdistan posted:It's just that all elves consider the humans to be barely-sentient chattel that doesn't deserve any rights, and think that it's totally okay to murder an entire village because a toddler urinated on some random moss-covered stone that used to be part of elven ruins. Weirdly the only thing the Witch Hunter and the Elves disagree on here is the reason why that was a bad thing.
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Oct 27, 2015 15:09
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I've really enjoyed what I've played so far, lovely ping and pubbies notwithstanding (obviously not the game's fault), but I can see myself cooling off on Vermintide in a week or two if the devs don't turbocharge the loot system some. Diablo 3's probably spoiled me in this regard, but I stopped playing L4D2 and release Payday 2 for pretty much the same reason: lack of/extremely slow progression just kills my interest in a game rather quickly. Or maybe some optimization will do the trick; the game lags on my middling rig when rats chopped up like crazy or a Poison Wind is anywhere in sight, and that adds up the fatigue...
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Oct 27, 2015 15:19
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The loot progression isn't tied to your performance is really my problem. Yes, yes, it's a fanciful tale to say you get better dice and therefore better loot if you have 3 tomes and 2 grims, but after the 20th time playing soldier and getting a blue/orange bright wizard sword or elf bow of types that are generally disliked, it really lays the lie to that particular assertion.
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Oct 27, 2015 15:22
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Yeah it kinda feels set up for a super long grind. I had more than enough of that kind of poo poo tier design with Destiny. Thankfully the gameplay is fun enough that I'll probably enjoy myself until I'm bored of the content before I get too aggrieved by the crappy loot system.
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Oct 27, 2015 15:23
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Getting loot for another class usually inspires me to switch to that class for a bit to check out my new toy. Maybe once I get comfortable with everything, I'll want better gear for specific classes, but until then I'll probably have fun with the grab bag loot system.
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Oct 27, 2015 15:45
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victrix posted:Yeah it kinda feels set up for a super long grind. I had more than enough of that kind of poo poo tier design with Destiny. The thing is, Destiny and its ilk -requires- you to grind gear to get higher numbers or battles are literally impossible. On the other hand, Vermintide takes more the Souls approach of leveling up weapons making the game easier, but really the best way to progress is simple practice and get gud. So the loot is very nice but not strictly necessary. Fans posted:On the flipside, the Loot means Pubbies actually put in some effort rather than DCing at the very first setback. Hey I don't mind DCing pubbies because I have gone into several pub matches where someone got pissy and quit all of three minutes from the exit. Free loot
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Oct 27, 2015 15:45
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DreamShipWrecked posted:The thing is, Destiny and its ilk -requires- you to grind gear to get higher numbers or battles are literally impossible. On the other hand, Vermintide takes more the Souls approach of leveling up weapons making the game easier, but really the best way to progress is simple practice and get gud. So the loot is very nice but not strictly necessary. My Dwarf was all whites until yesterday's BP fiascoes and did just fine.
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Oct 27, 2015 15:52
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I don't know what it is about Morr, but the cauldron room just turns groups into tunnel-vision idiots. Twice in a row I've had wipes when half the group decides that the game is now only about breaking objectives and ignoring rats.
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Oct 27, 2015 15:53
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So any of the Warhammer lore nerds able to speculate on something? Based in the scant things I know about Warhammer Fantasy coupled with other speculators in the thread I'm running on the assumption that if they add new classes the first thing we'll probably see is a White Lion or a Brettonian Knight. What kind of weapons would we expect to see from them? I'm assuming we'll get sword and shield as a baseline so well have 3 potential tank characters, but I was curious about what else would be lore appropriate. In my mind eye I could see them both getting a short spear and shield for an extended range straight line enemy penetrating/headshot attack with slowish speed. Maybe a longspear/lance that serves their big heavy weapon, less of a wide sweep but does heavy damage and penetrates as well. Maybe give them a great axe with a move set similar to the dwarf. For ranged weapons I can see either of them getting a way watcher style longbow and maybe a fancier crossbow that does less damage but reloads faster and has more ammo. I'm completely at a loss as to their third ranged weapon though. Maybe like a bundle of throwing javelins? Have it be the ranged slot equivalent of the witch hunter rapier in that it's primarily a ranged weapon that you can block with albeit poorly, primary attack is throwing it as a high damage high accuracy but low range/high projectile drop ranged weapon and have the rapier "fire pistol" button do a quick melee stab. DeathSandwich fucked around with this message at 16:03 on Oct 27, 2015 |
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Oct 27, 2015 15:53
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I'm sorry that I've stolen all the loot and have fully kitted out every character with blues and oranges.
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Oct 27, 2015 15:57
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Bret knight could very possibly carry no ranged and two melee options. I don't think they've ever had ranged weapons since they're viewed as "unchivalrous." Also expect the haughty elf with an outrageous French accent.
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Oct 27, 2015 15:57
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Elpato posted:Getting loot for another class usually inspires me to switch to that class for a bit to check out my new toy. Maybe once I get comfortable with everything, I'll want better gear for specific classes, but until then I'll probably have fun with the grab bag loot system. The thing is, based on my experience the loot table is weighed towards the class you are currently playing. When I play bright wizard I get about 50-60‰ bright wizard loot. Likewise for the dwarf. I was complaining and griping about my witch hunter having nothing but white items and the first run I did yesterday after forcing myself to play him with bad gear netted me a blue rapier. Before that I was one of those idiots that went to fuse 4 witch hunter weapons I wanted with a white hat bow I wanted to get rid of and got a green hag bow out of it. That left my WH with a white axe and pistol brace for above mentioned hard run. Hag bow: not even once.
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Oct 27, 2015 16:01
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I should bitch more about videogames because I just got a Grudgeraker drop right after I made that post. This thing is sweet as all hell and I don't care if the Handgun is probably a better choice for general use; clearing out clusters of rats and pasting Gutter Runners and Packmasters is satisfying and buckshot lets you be a bit more careless with your shots.DreamShipWrecked posted:The thing is, Destiny and its ilk -requires- you to grind gear to get higher numbers or battles are literally impossible. On the other hand, Vermintide takes more the Souls approach of leveling up weapons making the game easier, but really the best way to progress is simple practice and get gud. So the loot is very nice but not strictly necessary. True, but at least give everyone access to all their weapons at start so they can experience them without relying on RNG. You stick with one weapon for an entire level in VT; L4D2 mixes that up through managing ammo supply and finding weapons during the level, and it gives the game a sense of progression even if you don't have levelling or permanent inventories.
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Oct 27, 2015 16:02
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DreamShipWrecked posted:The thing is, Destiny and its ilk -requires- you to grind gear to get higher numbers or battles are literally impossible. On the other hand, Vermintide takes more the Souls approach of leveling up weapons making the game easier, but really the best way to progress is simple practice and get gud. So the loot is very nice but not strictly necessary. On Cataclysm, a white WH Zwei has to hit a clan rat 4 times to kill him. It's the same concept. I mean I'm all for gitting gud, but it is erroneous to imply that a team can parachute in to Cataclysm with all whites and be only inconvenienced if they've gotten gud. They will be much, much more fragile and the game will be FAR less tolerant to mistakes. Mistakes that probably will happen with the copious clipping and spawning bugs we've been talking about for the last 5 pages.
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Oct 27, 2015 16:04
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DeathSandwich posted:White Lion or a Brettonian Knight. If they do make a White Lion, I would like to see him get some extra mobility as his unique mechanic instead of straight up ranged options. White Lions generally use a two-handed axe, spear, or poleaxe if my memory serves, so perhaps: -Make his number 1 slot his close-range melee stance complete with the standard normal and strong attacks you see today. -Make number 2 slot his high mobility/specialty stance complete with a leap/pounce. It would create a sort of risk and reward game play we see with the Bright Wizard. He could also open fun vertical movement options by doing this. "Blocking" in the specialty stance could have you raise your polearm as you would with a pike wall. You can't push, but every time someone tries to hit you, they get skewered. Or maybe he could throw his spear type weapon and leap to retrieve it.
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Oct 27, 2015 16:06
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DeathSandwich posted:So any of the Warhammer lore nerds able to speculate on something? Based in the scant things I know about Warhammer Fantasy coupled with other speculators in the thread I'm running on the assumption that if they add new classes the first thing well probably see is a White Lion or a Brettonian Knight. What kind of weapons would we expect to see from them? White Lions are all about greataxes, so probably greataxe, greatsword and single longsword. Spears are very elven weaponry, so I'd personally like for them to get a spear as their fourth option. Ranged-wise, you're looking at quickbow/longbow again, probably with one flaming bow. Not sure what the fourth option would be. Bretonnian knight would be arming sword, sword and shield, mace and shield and I wouldn't mind a flail/flail and shield option. Ranged would be bow/longbow/light crossbow/siege crossbow, probably, although letting the knight have two melee slots instead would be neat. Also, we need a dark elf corsair with twin cutlasses/twin daggers/hand crossbow and cutlass/single poison cutlass as well as shortbow/throwing knives/repeating crossbow. moths posted:Also expect the haughty elf with an outrageous French accent. Bretonnians are the ones with the French accents. Elpato posted:Or dwarf Slayer The lack of a Slayer haircut as a helmet option for the dwarf is baffling. Lemon-Lime fucked around with this message at 16:14 on Oct 27, 2015 |
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Oct 27, 2015 16:08
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hooman posted:Perfect leaping gutter runner snipe followed by getting shanked in the side by a bloody skavenslave is a very good summary of this game. Don't judge me.
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Oct 27, 2015 16:08
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Coolguye posted:Even when you're gud it's hard to argue that an orange Witch Hunter rapier does almost as much damage per strike as a white WH Zweihander. It is also technically not necessary to use ANY weapons in Dark Souls, but people do because fist runs are pure suffering in practice due to the number of times you have to hit an enemy. Wait, higher rarity weapons have better base stats than whites? poo poo, I hope they eventually let you get more than one item per mission then
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Oct 27, 2015 16:08
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toasterwarrior posted:Wait, higher rarity weapons have better base stats than whites? Only damage gets better, but it gets better enough that it very clearly hits a couple of important break points for Nightmare and Cataclysm. Expecting to get down to 1 hit KOs on Cataclysm is a pipe dream (even a blue dwarf crossbow requires a head shot to kill a clan rat) but when there are so many clan rats around, going from 4 to 3 hits to kill is a big deal. The faster weapons benefit even more in terms of number of hits to kill.
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Oct 27, 2015 16:11
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