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Tubesock Holocaust posted:But here's the thing: the cops shouldn't have had their weapons drawn on a 12-year-old child in the first place. That's what our Most Valuable shitPosters seem to miss about this whole thing. Why the gently caress would you draw your weapon on a CHILD? You're right, of course, but when white cops look at a 12yo black child they see a 25 year old perp. When Darren Wilson saw Michael Brown he saw a demon. They are knock-kneed cowards in search of the bogeymen that haunt their loving dreams.
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Oct 27, 2015 21:31
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LeeMajors posted:You're right, of course, but when white cops look at a 12yo black child they see a 25 year old perp. This isn't too far from the truth. Way back, ITT I think, someone posted a link to a study that showed white people (maybe white cops, I dunno) actually overestimate the ages of black males by a few years, in particular black teens & pre-teens.
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Oct 27, 2015 21:40
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Tubesock Holocaust posted:I know this is pretty late, but it still boggles the mind that we (or at least the three people who choose to turn this thread into a ouroboros of highly-refined shitposting) are still dwelling on this particular minutiae. Because I'm fairly critical of the police, but that seems like a line to far. Children can and do kill. Its why we have school shootings (see Andrew Golden, 11 y.o.) and juvenile justice systems.
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Oct 27, 2015 21:45
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nm posted:Is your position that even if a 12 year old had a firearm known to the police on him, the police should not draw his weapon, even if the 12 year old draws? Yeah, but if it's a kid, it's overwhelmingly more likely that it's just a bb gun or something. It's really not reasonable to just assume that it's a real gun.
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Oct 27, 2015 22:01
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Lemming posted:Yeah, but if it's a kid, it's overwhelmingly more likely that it's just a bb gun or something. It's really not reasonable to just assume that it's a real gun. So they should have waited until they saw the colored safety tip of the gun?
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Oct 27, 2015 22:08
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No, just three (or one more) second(s). That case is finally hitting grand jury fyi.
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Oct 27, 2015 22:11
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Tubesock Holocaust posted:I know this is pretty late, but it still boggles the mind that we (or at least the three people who choose to turn this thread into a ouroboros of highly-refined shitposting) are still dwelling on this particular minutiae. I'm guessing they took to heart the social panic/fear-mongering of the 'super predator' kids that coincided with the rise in popularity of hip hop and gangsta rap in the late 80s and early 90s. http://www.nytimes.com/2014/04/07/us/politics/killing-on-bus-recalls-superpredator-threat-of-90s.html
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Oct 27, 2015 22:17
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ayn rand hand job posted:So they should have waited until they saw the colored safety tip of the gun? Those are often painted over or removed, but the chances that a kid has a fake gun instead of a real gun are so much higher that immediately shooting at a pre-teen who was reported to have a gun and moves his hands too fast because he might quickdraw a cop is inherently unreasonable.
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Oct 27, 2015 22:24
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nm posted:Is your position that even if a 12 year old had a firearm known to the police on him, the police should not draw his weapon, even if the 12 year old draws? The number of preteen children who have held what looked like guns in public is far, far smaller than the number who have actually been armed murderers or robbers. Children are not adults and should not be treated exactly like adults in all circumstances. Then again, the officers' actions would have been pretty dumb even if it was an adult playing with a BB gun in the gazebo. It's just extra stupid because it was a kid.
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Oct 27, 2015 22:26
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Lemming posted:Those are often painted over or removed, but the chances that a kid has a fake gun instead of a real gun are so much higher that immediately shooting at a pre-teen who was reported to have a gun and moves his hands too fast because he might quickdraw a cop is inherently unreasonable. Even as cop hating as I am, if they start drawing what looks like a real gun on anyone, I believe the other person has a right to self defense. Note that I said drawing what looks like a real gun, not pulling up his pants. I might have a different opinion with a 5 year old, but a 12 year old knows better. I am not talking about the OH case because I am reaponding to one exact post and I didn't see him draw poo poo.
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Oct 27, 2015 22:27
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nm posted:Even as cop hating as I am, if they start drawing what looks like a real gun on anyone, I believe the other person has a right to self defense. I guess that's fair. If a kid is drawing it and pointing it at someone I agree that's a different situation, and in that case it's defensible. They shouldn't have even had their guns out, though. All they had to go on was a report, where anyone can say whatever they like. They hadn't even confirmed that the kid had something that looks like a gun at that point.
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Oct 27, 2015 22:34
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Lemming posted:I guess that's fair. If a kid is drawing it and pointing it at someone I agree that's a different situation, and in that case it's defensible. Anyway I couldn't find that story but I found this one instead http://news.nationalpost.com/full-comment/joe-oconnor-tragic-police-shooting-of-armed-teens-that-didnt-happen-says-a-lot-about-canadian-city
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Oct 27, 2015 22:47
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God I fucking love Diablo 3 gold, it even paid for this shitty title
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nm posted:Is your position that even if a 12 year old had a firearm known to the police on him, the police should not draw his weapon, even if the 12 year old draws? A few pages ago, there was a picture of a perfectly white kid with what appeared to be a realistic looking gun in a holster on his hip. Now imagine someone called the cops after seeing that particular kid. What would be the police response to that? Upon seeing the kid (keep in mind he's still got it holstered), you really think they would approach him with weapons drawn.... ...or would they just walk up to the kid and ask him "heya bud, whatcha got there?" The ideal response would be to assess the situation from a safe distance, determine if the kid poses an immediate threat* and then intervene in as much of a non-confrontational manner as possible. *I'm sure many cops think blacks naturally pose an immediate threat for some reason. ayn rand hand job posted:The student who was arrested for bringing a clock to school has was offered and accepted a full scholarship. Guess who's gonna get put on a No Fly/Terrorist Watch list? 90s Solo Cup fucked around with this message at 23:30 on Oct 27, 2015 |
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Oct 27, 2015 23:22
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LeJackal posted:Yes, it has absolutely nothing to do with the culture within the police of continual escalation, us v. them, militarization and battlefield mentality, or the fact that they rarely suffer consequences for their actions. You know as well as I do that the police benefit from a large amount of political support from civilian wanna-bes that share the same authoritarian power fantasies. See: this thread where people are earnestly supporting no criminal charges for murdering an unarmed little boy for pulling up his pants. You know I own guns right?
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Oct 28, 2015 00:00
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Tubesock Holocaust posted:A few pages ago, there was a picture of a perfectly white kid with what appeared to be a realistic looking gun in a holster on his hip. Now imagine someone called the cops after seeing that particular kid. What would be the police response to that? Upon seeing the kid (keep in mind he's still got it holstered), you really think they would approach him with weapons drawn....  Turns out black children are more threatening than white supremacists worshiping the confederate flag. Wonder why cops can relate to one, but not the other?
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Oct 28, 2015 00:59
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Do other counties have this problem where police have to think about "defending" themselves against gun wielding children or is this another uniquely American issue? Also is there any actual statistics of cops that have to defend themselves legitimately in this way since it sounds like something that has happened maybe one time.
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Oct 28, 2015 01:07
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It's already been established in this thread that a grown white man with an AR-15 in his hands with his finger inches from the trigger is less of a threat than a little black boy pulling up his pants.
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Oct 28, 2015 01:10
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VitalSigns posted:You know I own guns right? It doesn't make you any less misguided. Its like you're blaming Hugo Boss for the Holocaust because he designed SS uniforms. Its so tangential and barely, if even related that I can't help but think you're a concern troll.
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Oct 28, 2015 01:29
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On the other hand, reality, where gunning down a black kid gets you a few hundred thou in donations for your legal defense. I'm sure all that money is from cops though, who are completely immune from the democratic process and aren't shielded by a huge swell of political support by people who like to see summary executions of petty criminals and dream of doing it themselves. E: Can you take a break from rubbing your nuts on your guns for like one second so you can realize I'm not talking about hunters or hobbyists or target shooters, but about fetishits who make gun-owning an identity, fantasize about one day having a legal excuse to shoot somebody, and pass ridiculous laws like "stand your ground" to make it easier to go start a fight and then kill someone? VitalSigns fucked around with this message at 02:02 on Oct 28, 2015 |
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Oct 28, 2015 01:42
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Radish posted:Do other counties have this problem where police have to think about "defending" themselves against gun wielding children or is this another uniquely American issue? Also is there any actual statistics of cops that have to defend themselves legitimately in this way since it sounds like something that has happened maybe one time. Most other first world countries deal with all conflicts vastly differently than American officers. Your average German, British, or Norwegian officer is much more likely to use words than fists, or use fists more than guns. Negotiation and peaceful resolutions are preferred. Even gun-wielding suspects who aren't an immediately dangerous threat (like someone running around shooting everyone he sees) are more likely to be negotiated with to convince them to surrender without harming anyone, usually after the police clear out the area of civilians and surround the suspect to make the area essentially a vacuum where the number of escape options or people to harm are limited as much as possible. If a suspect does get shot, medical attention is immediately given with the goal of preventing them from dying before they get put in a jail cell. American policing has an incredibly antagonistic relationship with suspects that encourages immediate resolution. Officers are trained that they're in constant danger of violent criminals or crazy people every time they go out on the street and that they need to be the ultimate force of authority and power on the scene. If a suspect doesn't comply with orders even in a peaceful manner (such as not leaving an area or refusing to put their hands behind their back for an arrest), officers are trained to use martial arts to immediately throw them to the ground (regardless of the individual's frailty or the need to perform harmful techniques like arm bars or hip throws) and apply enough pressure to force them into cuffs. This is what gets you instances like Eric Garner, where multiple officers throw a peacefully non-compliant man to the ground and eventually strangle him to death with a headlock to try and forcefully stop him from resisting arrest, or that school resource officer who responds to a non-compliant but non-threatening teenage girl by flipping her and throwing her across the room. Less-lethal weapons like Tasers and pepper spray are used similarly, with people who aren't a major threat or even a threat at all being tased or maced to make an arrest easier. This also leads to how they treat armed suspects. Any suspect with any kind of weapon (or something that looks like a weapon) is to be immediately neutralized before they cause any harm. Unless the suspect is holding all the cards (like being barricaded with hostages), negotiation is generally limited to holding them at gunpoint and screaming for several seconds at most for them to surrender before shooting them (in reality, some cops give little to no warning and just open fire on sight). This works with someone who's easily frightened and subdued when threatened, but someone who's actually determined to cause harm (especially someone mentally ill or disabled who may not have a full understanding of the reality of what they're doing) is much more likely to be either too terrified to respond or become more scared or aggressive and attack. Multiple mentally ill individuals having an episode where they begin threatening suicide with a weapon have been murdered by police officers who see a knife or gun and immediately default to screaming for compliance before shooting. So it's not really that America has any "epidemic of armed children" or that armed 12-year-olds are some kind of serious threat to American citizens. The problem is that American policing standards encourage confrontation, compliance through force, and immediate escalation to lethal force whenever even the possibility of a deadly weapon is present. Thus, a report of a child who may or may not be playing with a real gun is treated in the exact same manner as an adult running around the park shooting kids: they roll in ready to shoot, make little to no attempt at a peaceful resolution, and use lethal force as their first resort.
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Oct 28, 2015 01:51
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VitalSigns posted:E: Can you take a break from rubbing your nuts on your guns for like one second so you can realize I'm not talking about hunters or hobbyists or target shooters, but about fetishits who make gun-owning an identity, fantasize about one day having a legal excuse to shoot somebody, and pass ridiculous laws like "stand your ground" to make it easier to go start a fight and then kill someone? Right. So the problem isn't that the agents of the state feel that they have a consequence-free monopoly on violence, but that there are laws counter to that fact. I see, makes perfect sense now.
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Oct 28, 2015 02:54
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Radish posted:Do other counties have this problem where police have to think about "defending" themselves against gun wielding children or is this another uniquely American issue? Also is there any actual statistics of cops that have to defend themselves legitimately in this way since it sounds like something that has happened maybe one time. chitoryu12 posted:Most other first world countries deal with all conflicts vastly differently than American officers. ...Thus, a report of a child who may or may not be playing with a real gun is treated in the exact same manner as an adult running around the park shooting kids: they roll in ready to shoot, make little to no attempt at a peaceful resolution, and use lethal force as their first resort. Also, most other first world countries don't have kids getting their hands on guns in an urban environment in the first place.
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Oct 28, 2015 03:00
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LeJackal posted:Right. So the problem isn't that the agents of the state feel that they have a consequence-free monopoly on violence, but that there are laws counter to that fact. I see, makes perfect sense now. Stand your ground laws are for the civilian [non police] gun nut masturbation. Police already have immunity from murdering minorities.
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Oct 28, 2015 03:00
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Devor posted:Stand your ground laws are for the civilian [non police] gun nut masturbation. No, but you see that somehow makes the police murder minorities. Somehow. So we have no choice but To Do Something (tm). LeJackal fucked around with this message at 03:59 on Oct 28, 2015 |
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Oct 28, 2015 03:46
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ChairMaster posted:Also, most other first world countries don't have kids getting their hands on guns in an urban environment in the first place. Even in America, the chance that the kid is carrying a BB gun or airsoft gun is much, much, much higher than them actually having a real gun, let alone holding a real gun and planning to use it to kill people.
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Oct 28, 2015 03:50
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LeJackal posted:Right. So the problem isn't that the agents of the state feel that they have a consequence-free monopoly on violence, but that there are laws counter to that fact. I see, makes perfect sense now. The people who vote for these laws that make it easier for them to fulfill their dream of executing petty criminals with no consequence are the same people who donate hundreds of thousands of dollars for the legal defense of murderous cops and who vote for the DA's, judges, and politicians who shield cops from consequences, hope that helps.
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Oct 28, 2015 04:05
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Deputy Deadlift was fired this morning. Good.
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Oct 28, 2015 17:49
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Senf posted:Deputy Deadlift was fired this morning. Good. Cool now let's get him prosecuted
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Oct 28, 2015 17:57
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The comments are calling for her to be expelled. Which is beautiful. She did what! Pull out a cellphone and be disrespectful? I thought these people hated zero tolerance.
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Oct 28, 2015 18:00
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Boywhiz88 posted:The comments are calling for her to be expelled. Which is beautiful. She did what! Pull out a cellphone and be disrespectful? I thought these people hated zero tolerance. Well come on now, she's no angel
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Oct 28, 2015 18:41
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While I haven't been able to watch the video, apparently a couple officers in Calgary had to deal with a dog actually biting them while they arrested the owner, and some bystanders eventually pulled the dog away from them. No dogs or people got shot, so it seems it is in fact possible to do police work without killing dogs, even if it would be a good shoot. http://m.huffpost.com/ca/entry/8401356
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Oct 28, 2015 18:56
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Solenna posted:While I haven't been able to watch the video, apparently a couple officers in Calgary had to deal with a dog actually biting them while they arrested the owner, and some bystanders eventually pulled the dog away from them. No dogs or people got shot, so it seems it is in fact possible to do police work without killing dogs, even if it would be a good shoot. Hahahaha literally an old woman with a cane walks right up and pulls the dog away, while the cops (one of them a woman) talk sensibly and calmly to a dude going loving crazy and calling them fascists or something (I couldn't really make it out). American cops are loving beta bitch roided out pussies compared to an old woman from Canada with a cane. American cops are beta bitch roided out pussies compared to anyone, but still. edit: Look at the cops in that video too, not a single one out of shape. Now think of all the ridiculously fat, bloated chunks of meat you see running around in American cop uniforms with their greasy disgusting flesh rolls poking out of their uniforms as they whine and bitch about how loving hard and dangerous their jobs are. quote:Calgary police Sgt. Katrina O'Reilly said the force wanted to thank both the person who shared the video with them, as well as the bystanders stepping in to help. Hahahaha. pathetic little tramp fucked around with this message at 19:29 on Oct 28, 2015 |
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Oct 28, 2015 19:23
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Hahaha, he was calling them "loving dog haters" despite the fact that they were absolutely kind to the dog barking and nipping at them.
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Oct 28, 2015 20:46
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Ferguson is about to blow up again. Cops shot a kid. Cops are saying he was suicidal and shooting at them, witnesses are saying he was unarmed and being chased, so.... edit the further: Police are saying he shot himself in the face after shooting at the cops. pathetic little tramp fucked around with this message at 21:19 on Oct 28, 2015 |
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Oct 28, 2015 21:13
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Normandy shooting Livestream: http://livestream.com/accounts/10258730/events/4462903 Nothing useful on local news yet. E: Stream just went down but it was just a guy standing outside the police tape. E2: \/\/ It just happened in the past hour or so, but it'll be under Normandy, MO (near Ferguson) when the stories do come up. goatsestretchgoals fucked around with this message at 21:36 on Oct 28, 2015 |
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Oct 28, 2015 21:29
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pathetic little tramp posted:Ferguson is about to blow up again. Cops shot a kid. Can I get a link, or a source, or something? I don't doubt you, but I'd like to be able to cite something when I start shouting.
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Oct 28, 2015 21:29
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Bassetking posted:Can I get a link, or a source, or something? I don't doubt you, but I'd like to be able to cite something when I start shouting. UPDATED at 3:40 p.m. with new details about exchange of gunfire. NORMANDY • Police say a man shot himself in the face after exchanging gunfire with officers in Normandy Wednesday afternoon. Normandy Police Chief Frank Mininni said officers from his department were called by police in neighboring Ferguson to help them try to find a "suicidal subject." When officers arrived in the area of Paddington and Bermuda drives, they found an armed man, Mininni said. There was an exchange of gunfire, but no one was hit, Mininni said. A Normandy officer and a Ferguson officer were involved, but it was unclear if one or both officers fired. The man then ran and officers pursued him. The man ultimately shot himself in the face in the front yard of a residence close to his home, Mininni said. He was taken to a hospital. Mininni said Wednesday afternoon that he believes the man is still alive. Police are treating the scene as an attempted suicide, Mininni said. St. Louis County police were called in to help with the investigation. Deron Smith, who lives in the neighborhood, said he saw part of the chase. Smith, who lives on Paddington, said he heard six to eight gunshots behind his home and went outside to investigate. He saw a man running from police officers. He said the man didn't appear to be holding a gun at that point because he was using two hands to climb over fences. Several people were behind the police, screaming at the man to stop running from the officers, Smith said. Smith said he lost sight of the man as he ran between two homes, and he heard several more gunshots. He went out to the front of his home and saw the injured man on face-down on the ground near a tree. http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/...05a24fd5fd.html
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Oct 28, 2015 22:24
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It's amazing how an off duty police officer can harass a couple for kissing in public, grab a women to prevent her from calling the police, then when she fights back, charge her and her partner with felony assault, forcing them to live in a park for 5 months, while you drag out getting the BS charges dismissed. Oh wait, no that's normal power trip behavior. http://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/story/30378453/officer-accused-of-arresting-lesbians-kissing-in-store quote:"We were holding hands and I was kissing her cheek," Guerrero told reporters Wednesday. Trabisnikof fucked around with this message at 06:10 on Oct 29, 2015 |
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Oct 29, 2015 06:05
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I don't see what the big deal is, they could have avoided everything if they'd just agreed to the cop's request not to kiss in the first place, everything that happened after that was on them.
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Oct 29, 2015 06:36
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VitalSigns posted:I don't see what the big deal is, they could have avoided everything if they'd just agreed to the cop's request not to kiss in the first place, everything that happened after that was on them. I have zero doubt there will be no shortage of individuals who will immediately and sincerely put full and complete blame on these girls for five months of misery. Plenty of 'well they should have' and 'well they could have' cant even begin to make up for the bullshit they just suffered for no actual reason. I hope they sue the gently caress out that store and the idiot cop/police.
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Oct 29, 2015 08:03
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