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Bouquet: Jul 14, 2001

Oh no, Roadie, you are an impossibly skilled cyber-wizard! Only scientists and engineers know LaTex; Exalted is a game for artists! We couldn't pollute the team of writers (who are artists!) with that nasty math and precision garbage.

# ? Oct 28, 2015 04:50

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# ? May 23, 2024 22:37

RiotGearEpsilon: Jun 26, 2005; SHAVE ME FROM MY SHELF

Roadie posted:

Here's a test example with some simple use of LaTeX.

This also includes automatic indexing, table of contents, and PDF bookmark generation, which took me maybe half an hour at most to fiddle with and get set up like I wanted.

Edit: Also, \nopagebreak in the statblock definitions to keep them from sitting by themselves at the bottom of pages with the text on the next page.

That's quite nice. What's the raw text look like?

# ? Oct 28, 2015 05:10

Roadie: Jun 30, 2013

RiotGearEpsilon posted:

That's quite nice. What's the raw text look like?

The layout itself is just the tufte-book class, which I rather like for its vague resemblance to the Nobilis 2e core.

For the Charm-alikes, I have this mess in the preamble:

code:

\newcommand{\Reverie}[1]{\paragraph{#1}\label{Reverie:#1}\index{#1}}
\newenvironment{stats}{\small\begin{verse}}{\end{verse}\normalsize}

\newcommand{\ReverieBasics}[5]{%
  \textbf{Spirit} #1; #2; \textbf{Prereqs} #3\\
  \textbf{Cost} #4; \textbf{Keywords} #5
}

\newcommand{\ReverieActionBasics}[7]{%
  \ReverieBasics{#1}{#2}{#3}{#4}{#5}\\
  \textbf{Action} #6; \textbf{Duration} #7
}

\newcommand{\ReverieSupplementalBasics}[7]{%
  \ReverieBasics{#1}{#2}{#3}{#4}{#5}\\
  \textbf{Supplements} #6; \textbf{Duration} #7
}

\newcommand{\ReverieActionStats}[7]{%
  \begin{stats}
    \ReverieActionBasics{#1}{#2}{#3}{#4}{#5}{#6}{#7}
  \end{stats}
  \nopagebreak[3]
}

\newcommand{\ReverieActionRechargeStats}[8]{%
  \begin{stats}
    \ReverieActionBasics{#1}{#2}{#3}{#4}{#5}{#6}{#7}\\
    \textbf{Recharge} #8
  \end{stats}
  \nopagebreak[3]
}

\newcommand{\ReverieActionRequirementStats}[8]{%
  \begin{stats}
    \ReverieActionBasics{#1}{#2}{#3}{#4}{#5}{#6}{#7}\\
    \textbf{Requirement} #8
  \end{stats}
  \nopagebreak[3]
}

\newcommand{\ReverieSupplementalStats}[7]{%
  \begin{stats}
    \ReverieSupplementalBasics{#1}{#2}{#3}{#4}{#5}{#6}{#7}
  \end{stats}
  \nopagebreak[3]
}

\newcommand{\ReverieSupplementalRequirementStats}[8]{%
  \begin{stats}
    \ReverieSupplementalBasics{#1}{#2}{#3}{#4}{#5}{#6}{#7}\\
    \textbf{Requirement} #8
  \end{stats}
  \nopagebreak[3]
}

Then the actual text looks like:

code:

\section{Melee}

\newthought{If you have Trained Melee,} anything is a weapon in your hands.
Knives. Hammers. Telephone poles, if you can lift them. Maybe you once killed a
man with a fender guitar in the heart of Memphis to stop Elvis-Rahotep from
destroying the world, or you fought a madman to the death in the moors of
Scotland, with only a butcher knife and a shovel against a chainsaw.

If you have Focused Melee, you're one of the best fighters in the world. You can
pluck a chestnut out of a roasting fire with your bare hands or cut a falling
sheet of paper into an origami doll with the tip of a sword.

\Reverie{Placeholder Name 10}
\ReverieSupplementalStats
  {1}{Untrained Melee}{---}
  {3m}{Uniform}
  {Melee attack}{Instant}

Add +1s to the attack roll, and cascade reroll each 1 on the attack roll.

\Reverie{Placeholder Name 12}
\ReverieActionRequirementStats
  {1}{Untrained Melee}{\nameref{Reverie:Placeholder Name 10}}
  {3m}{---}
  {Reflexive}{Instant}
  {You make a withering attack that lowers a target's Initiative from greater
  than yours to less than yours.}

Make a withering or decisive Melee attack against the target.

\Reverie{Placeholder Name 13}
\ReverieActionStats
  {1}{Trained Melee}{\nameref{Reverie:Placeholder Name 12}}
  {1m, 1wp, 3a}{---}
  {Reflexive}{Instant}

Make a withering or decisive Melee attack.

\Reverie{Placeholder Name 11}
\ReverieSupplementalStats
  {1}{Trained Melee}{\nameref{Reverie:Placeholder Name 10}}
  {1m per 1d or 1s}{Dual}
  {Melee attack}{Instant}

If the supplemented attack is withering, spend up to Xm, where X is your Brawn.
If the attack hits, add +Xd to its post-soak damage, which can increase its
minimum damage.

If the supplemented attack is decisive, spend up to Xm, where X is the greater
of your Spirit or 3. Subtract Xs from the attack roll and, if the attack hits,
add Xs to the attack's raw damage.

# ? Oct 28, 2015 05:27

SunAndSpring: Dec 4, 2013

I'm still scratching my head at how bad some of the art is, especially when it seems like the dudes working of World of Darkness are doing just fine finding decent quality artists on their budget; last product I got from them was Demon and that had good enough art in it. Certainly no loving 3D poses that were painted over.

# ? Oct 28, 2015 05:33

Roadie: Jun 30, 2013

SunAndSpring posted:

I'm still scratching my head at how bad some of the art is, especially when it seems like the dudes working of World of Darkness are doing just fine finding decent quality artists on their budget; last product I got from them was Demon and that had good enough art in it. Certainly no loving 3D poses that were painted over.

Heck, pull from public domain art if you really need to fill some space that badly.

# ? Oct 28, 2015 05:40

Roadie: Jun 30, 2013

Here's some vague thoughts on different possible Ability schemes:

First, a 3x8 by P/S/M version a bit inspired by nWoD. Not substantially more or less Abilities, but rearranged and rejiggered. Also, I can't figure out a better word for "Travel", but it'd be kind of Sail/Drive (in modern shards)/the-ability-you-use-on-a-yeddim-because-they're-too-big-for-Ride/more multipurpose - theoretically the Ability that a caravan master would use, for example (along with Survival and Bureaucracy).

code:

Athletics    Animal Ken     Awareness
Larceny      Bureaucracy    Craft
Melee        Expression     Integrity
Ranged       Intimidation   Investigation
Resistance   Persuasion     Lore
Stealth      Socialize      Medicine
Survival     Subterfuge     Occult
Unarmed      War            Travel

Second, a stripped-down 5x3 version based on Caste.

code:

Melee    Presence   Craft      Athletics    Bureaucracy
Ranged   Resolve    Lore       Awareness    Socialize
War      Survival   Medicine   Subterfuge   Travel

Roadie fucked around with this message at 06:47 on Oct 28, 2015

# ? Oct 28, 2015 06:32

Nessus: Dec 22, 2003; After a Speaker vote, you may be entitled to a valuable coupon or voucher!

Travel seems vague. I'd still prefer the "Pilot" idea since that would cover all manner of shiplike operations, including salt and freshwater, while also covering operating various other craft and general impedimenta. "I'm On A Horse" can just be an Athletics charm, or Survival if it involves making your horse strong and tough and willing to put up with your bullshit.

# ? Oct 28, 2015 06:44

Roadie: Jun 30, 2013

Nessus posted:

Travel seems vague. I'd still prefer the "Pilot" idea since that would cover all manner of shiplike operations, including salt and freshwater, while also covering operating various other craft and general impedimenta.

I do like that.

Nessus posted:

"I'm On A Horse" can just be an Athletics charm, or Survival if it involves making your horse strong and tough and willing to put up with your bullshit.

That's what I was thinking, yeah. There'd be "apply my stuff to mount" in Athletics and "make my mount buff" in either Survival or the animals-specific skill (which would also include training, turning animals into units for War, esoteric stuff like harnessing behemoths or whatever, etc).

# ? Oct 28, 2015 06:47

theironjef: Aug 11, 2009; The archmage of unexpected stinks.

Roadie posted:

Here's some vague thoughts on different possible Ability schemes:

First, a 3x8 by P/S/M version a bit inspired by nWoD. Not substantially more or less Abilities, but rearranged and rejiggered. Also, I can't figure out a better word for "Travel", but it'd be kind of Sail/Drive (in modern shards)/the-ability-you-use-on-a-yeddim-because-they're-too-big-for-Ride/more multipurpose - theoretically the Ability that a caravan master would use, for example (along with Survival and Bureaucracy).

I like "Passage" since it specifically deals with the method by which you travel from point A to point B ("the act or process of moving through, under, over, or past something on the way from one place to another"), so it would work well with describing charms that allow for increasing speed or navigating obstacles, hazards, and so on.

Plus with a name like that it'd be real easy to imagine a series of charms related to caravan or sailing ship issues. A charm that allows you to move uncontested through bandit/pirate trafficked areas, for example, or one that lets you immediately know local tariff and bribe standards when encountering roadside stops.

theironjef fucked around with this message at 07:07 on Oct 28, 2015

# ? Oct 28, 2015 07:05

Roadie: Jun 30, 2013

Something else I've been thinking about... what would be a better word for "Bureaucracy", given that in addition to formal bureaucratic work it kind of covers part of the Streetwise skill from nWoD? Appraising things in markets, making bargains, etc.

# ? Oct 28, 2015 07:10

theironjef: Aug 11, 2009; The archmage of unexpected stinks.

Roadie posted:

Something else I've been thinking about... what would be a better word for "Bureaucracy", given that in addition to formal bureaucratic work it kind of covers part of the Streetwise skill from nWoD? Appraising things in markets, making bargains, etc.

Administration?

# ? Oct 28, 2015 07:14

Nessus: Dec 22, 2003; After a Speaker vote, you may be entitled to a valuable coupon or voucher!

Roadie posted:

Something else I've been thinking about... what would be a better word for "Bureaucracy", given that in addition to formal bureaucratic work it kind of covers part of the Streetwise skill from nWoD? Appraising things in markets, making bargains, etc.

I figured that stuff would fall under Larceny really.

# ? Oct 28, 2015 07:14

Bouquet: Jul 14, 2001

I like this one:

Roadie posted:

code:

Melee    Presence   Craft      Athletics    Bureaucracy
Ranged   Resolve    Lore       Awareness    Socialize
War      Survival   Medicine   Subterfuge   Travel

I've had a number of discussions about the difference between Occult and Lore in a world where knowledge of the world has to include an understanding of spirits, so I like the removal of Occult.

I prefer Travel over the other suggestions because I want it to include more stuff about helping the whole party get places safely and quickly. "Everyone Knows How To Ride a Horse Now Prana" or "Here's a Bunch of Phantom Horses for Everyone Technique" or "Learn How to Get From Point A to Point B Tiara".

I'd like to combine Bureaucracy and Socialize too. They're both about interacting with groups of people vs. Presence being about interacting with one person. Doesn't leave much for the poor Eclipse if you do that, though. Linguistics? Could probably just leave it at two, there's a long tradition of Eclipse getting screwed over when it comes to Abilities.

I like the 3x8 better than the 5x5 standard, too.

efb on some of this stuff, it appears.

# ? Oct 28, 2015 07:16

Roadie: Jun 30, 2013

Nessus posted:

I figured that stuff would fall under Larceny really.

I could see appraisal of stuff in Larceny, but stuff like "enhance a bargain action" doesn't seem quite right there.

# ? Oct 28, 2015 07:17

Roadie: Jun 30, 2013

Bouquet posted:

I'd like to combine Bureaucracy and Socialize too. They're both about interacting with groups of people vs. Presence being about interacting with one person. Doesn't leave much for the poor Eclipse if you do that, though. Linguistics? Could probably just leave it at two, there's a long tradition of Eclipse getting screwed over when it comes to Abilities.

Maybe this:

code:

Melee    Presence   Craft      Athletics     Socialize
Ranged   Resolve    Lore       Awareness     Subterfuge
War      Survival   Medicine   PLACEHOLDER   Travel

Where here Subterfuge is basically "the social stuff spies do in spy movies" (including disguises), while PLACEHOLDER is Stealth + Larceny (I can't think of a good word for it).

That might have Socialize and Subterfuge overlap too much, though.

Alternately, have Subterfuge be Larceny + spy stuff, and replace PLACEHOLDER with Stealth.

Roadie fucked around with this message at 07:31 on Oct 28, 2015

# ? Oct 28, 2015 07:28

Bouquet: Jul 14, 2001

Roadie posted:

Alternately, have Subterfuge be Larceny + spy stuff, and replace PLACEHOLDER with Stealth.

I think that would be good. Sneaking around is mechanically and plotwise important enough to be its own thing.

# ? Oct 28, 2015 07:56

theironjef: Aug 11, 2009; The archmage of unexpected stinks.

Bouquet posted:

I'd like to combine Bureaucracy and Socialize too. They're both about interacting with groups of people vs. Presence being about interacting with one person. Doesn't leave much for the poor Eclipse if you do that, though. Linguistics? Could probably just leave it at two, there's a long tradition of Eclipse getting screwed over when it comes to Abilities.

Huh, that's never been my interpretation. I always viewed them as Bureaucracy and Socialize being social tools that work within the establishment, and Presence (with special guests Performance and Larceny) being social tools that work outside the establishment. Like, Bureaucracy is about being the best cog in the machine, and Presence is about being the best wrench in the cogs.

# ? Oct 28, 2015 07:58

Bouquet: Jul 14, 2001

theironjef posted:

Huh, that's never been my interpretation. I always viewed them as Bureaucracy and Socialize being social tools that work within the establishment, and Presence (with special guests Performance and Larceny) being social tools that work outside the establishment. Like, Bureaucracy is about being the best cog in the machine, and Presence is about being the best wrench in the cogs.

My interpretation of things is strongly influenced by Charms for things over the editions. Presence is almost always about looking cool or convincing one person they are awesome/should do what you say. Performance is about persuading groups Charm-wise. (There's even a note in the backer PDF about Performance Charms never being subject to the group penalty.) Bureaucracy charms are about improving/degrading a bureaucracy or merchant stuff. Socialize charms are about learning what's going on in a group, blending in with a group, or influencing a group.

(Basically, I've been trained to ignore both the flavor text about what the various social abilities do and any conception of things based on the real world because if there's no charms in an ability for the thing you want your character to be good at, it's not worth spending BP on. e.g. Want to be a Solar actor who inspires the oppressed to rise up against the Realm? Get hosed buddy, there's one Performance charm related to acting and it doesn't actually help you act! Luckily there are 5 sex/seduction charms between Performance and Presence, so the Solar courtesan who fucks the Realm to a standstill concept is A-OK.)

# ? Oct 28, 2015 08:23

Roadie: Jun 30, 2013

Exalted Third Edition: The Solar courtesan who fucks the Realm to a standstill is A-OK

# ? Oct 28, 2015 09:19

Mendrian: Jan 6, 2013

Exalted is a great game that I keep shying away from because it encourages outrageously specific character concepts like, "guy who uses his horse in nearly every scene", "gal who is incredibly good at anthropologically valid interpretive dance" and my personal favorite, "person who uses loving as a means of changing other people's minds." I like Exalted but why do Charms have hyper specific use cases?

# ? Oct 28, 2015 09:34

spectralent: Oct 1, 2014; Me and the boys poppin' down to the shops

Mendrian posted:

Exalted is a great game that I keep shying away from because it encourages outrageously specific character concepts like, "guy who uses his horse in nearly every scene", "gal who is incredibly good at anthropologically valid interpretive dance" and my personal favorite, "person who uses loving as a means of changing other people's minds." I like Exalted but why do Charms have hyper specific use cases?

There's dozens of potential mechanics hooks in combat and people spend ages in there so there's loads of combat charms. Every other ability thus had to have a shitload of charms so Exalted wouldn't "just be combat".

# ? Oct 28, 2015 09:49

The Lone Badger: Sep 24, 2007

Roadie posted:

Exalted Third Edition: The Solar courtesan who fucks the Realm to a standstill is A-OK

Are people claiming that Empress Theodora is not a valid Exalt concept?

# ? Oct 28, 2015 10:02

Nessus: Dec 22, 2003; After a Speaker vote, you may be entitled to a valuable coupon or voucher!

The Lone Badger posted:

Are people claiming that Empress Theodora is not a valid Exalt concept?

She is apparently far more mechanically supported than, say, a supremely talented actor.

# ? Oct 28, 2015 10:08

Flavivirus: Dec 14, 2011; The next stage of evolution.

I suppose so, but I'd say pretty much everything you'd want to do as an actor is still possible - you can deliver stirring speeches (with Performance and Linguistics), perfectly duplicate others (larceny) or create entirely new personas (Socialise). Plus the omni-applicable Performance charms are still great for an actor.

E: Plus, I'd make the argument that far more of the performance charms are useful for acting than for sex: outside the 2 charms set out for it (which is pretty weird to see as a sub-heading) most performance charms aren't going to do anything for that character.

Flavivirus fucked around with this message at 10:49 on Oct 28, 2015

# ? Oct 28, 2015 10:46

Fans: Jun 27, 2013; A reptile dysfunction

So when people say Sex charms they mean what exactly?

Are we talking Seduction charms, or just straight up "To be used while/post loving" charms?

# ? Oct 28, 2015 10:57

cybertier: May 2, 2013

Fans posted:

So when people say Sex charms they mean what exactly?

Are we talking Seduction charms, or just straight up "To be used while/post loving" charms?

One of both for performance.

# ? Oct 28, 2015 11:05

Flavivirus: Dec 14, 2011; The next stage of evolution.

Far as I can tell, a sex wizard has the following tools available to them:

1) Make themselves prettier.
2) Hide seduction actions within other social actions.
3) Make everyone who sees them and is attracted to them attempt to seduce them, and make those who wouldn't want to bone them want to talk to them.
4) Have sex so good that it gives the other person a defining intimacy towards them for the next month and can be more easily manipulated.

Also the system repeatedly calls out that any seduction attempt can only go ahead with the consent of the players involved (or the GM in the case of NPCs).

# ? Oct 28, 2015 11:20

Crion: Sep 30, 2004; baseball.

Mendrian posted:

Exalted is a great game that I keep shying away from because it encourages outrageously specific character concepts like, "guy who uses his horse in nearly every scene", "gal who is incredibly good at anthropologically valid interpretive dance" and my personal favorite, "person who uses loving as a means of changing other people's minds." I like Exalted but why do Charms have hyper specific use cases?

Because that's how the writers have chosen to write them. The fact that the Sex charms could be written very broadly and applied to a wide range of coercive (benign or otherwise) social actions has been raised here multiple times, even when people who worked on the game still posted here. The designers instead very much wanted those charms to be strictly for fuckin'.

# ? Oct 28, 2015 13:14

DOCTOR ZIMBARDO: May 8, 2006

I think it makes a lot of sense for Ride charmset to let you get to some of the juicy parts of Dodge/Athletics/Survival for less investment/a different favored Caste ability (or as your Supernal ability), in return for tying it in to an animal friend. Same for Sail and its respective thematic abilities.

# ? Oct 28, 2015 14:29

Echo Cian: Jun 16, 2011

Roadie posted:

Exalted Third Edition: The Solar courtesan who fucks the Realm to a standstill is A-OK

emptyquoting

So, can someone tell me why the Lore system even exists? I can't get my head around what it does that couldn't just be done as "I want to know a thing" "that thing sounds cool do it"

Because as far as I can tell, the actual existence of the system where things the ST doesn't like can be vetoed and to add things you need to succeed on a roll, leads to:

"Can I know thing" "no" OR
"can I know thing" "that thing seems cool roll for it" "oops I failed" "sucks to be you then"

It's supposed to support knowledgeable characters but... I don't see how and the book's examples are not good. Suggesting a solution or hint to a plot seems more like Investigation, and adding setting details seems like just a thing thar can be done as seems interesting.

(Speaking of bad examples, the difficulty rating sample of a lockpicker with 3 dex is laughable, and the game does not give examples of how to judge more abstract things. The scale seems off as well. Annoying for a new ST.)

# ? Oct 28, 2015 16:05

Bedlamdan: Apr 25, 2008

Nessus posted:

She is apparently far more mechanically supported than, say, a supremely talented actor.

There's quite a few of those, even more if you supplement it with larceny and/or socialize.

# ? Oct 28, 2015 16:10

Ferrinus: Jun 19, 2003; i'm finding this quite easy, i guess in part because i'm a fast type but also because i have a coherent mental model of the world

That Lore is about collaborative storytelling and making things up about the setting because you'd prefer they be true, rather than about knowing things or figuring them out, pisses me off !!

# ? Oct 28, 2015 16:27

SunAndSpring: Dec 4, 2013

Echo Cian posted:

emptyquoting

So, can someone tell me why the Lore system even exists? I can't get my head around what it does that couldn't just be done as "I want to know a thing" "that thing sounds cool do it"

Because as far as I can tell, the actual existence of the system where things the ST doesn't like can be vetoed and to add things you need to succeed on a roll, leads to:

"Can I know thing" "no" OR
"can I know thing" "that thing seems cool roll for it" "oops I failed" "sucks to be you then"

It's supposed to support knowledgeable characters but... I don't see how and the book's examples are not good. Suggesting a solution or hint to a plot seems more like Investigation, and adding setting details seems like just a thing thar can be done as seems interesting.

(Speaking of bad examples, the difficulty rating sample of a lockpicker with 3 dex is laughable, and the game does not give examples of how to judge more abstract things. The scale seems off as well. Annoying for a new ST.)

Hmm, maybe if you fail a roll to introduce a fact that the storyteller is ok with, the fact should still be introduced but come with some sort of caveat? Like, failing a roll to introduce a fact that there's a Liminal operating in your area that might be sympathetic to your cause will still have that Liminal running around, but you fail to know that the Liminal is a wanted man and has a posse of Wyld Hunters on his rear end?

# ? Oct 28, 2015 16:29

Ferrinus: Jun 19, 2003; i'm finding this quite easy, i guess in part because i'm a fast type but also because i have a coherent mental model of the world

SunAndSpring posted:

Hmm, maybe if you fail a roll to introduce a fact that the storyteller is ok with, the fact should still be introduced but come with some sort of caveat? Like, failing a roll to introduce a fact that there's a Liminal operating in your area that might be sympathetic to your cause will still have that Liminal running around, but you fail to know that the Liminal is a wanted man and has a posse of Wyld Hunters on his rear end?

Oops, I wasn't erudite enough for something fortunate to be true, so something unfortunate is true instead. I'm playing a real RPG and not some hacky Creation World bullcrap.

# ? Oct 28, 2015 16:32

Exmond: May 31, 2007; Writing is fun!

So uhh, whats good about 3rd edition? Last two pages seem to be making GBS threads on it.

# ? Oct 28, 2015 16:39

Plutonis: Mar 25, 2011

Exmond posted:

So uhh, whats good about 3rd edition? Last two pages seem to be making GBS threads on it.

It's a good game but everyone in this thread is a whiny fucktard. Cheers m8!

# ? Oct 28, 2015 16:41

fool of sound: Oct 10, 2012

Exmond posted:

So uhh, whats good about 3rd edition? Last two pages seem to be making GBS threads on it.

The mechanics actually work, unlike 2e.

# ? Oct 28, 2015 16:43

Bedlamdan: Apr 25, 2008

fool_of_sound posted:

The mechanics actually work, unlike 2e.

I'd even go so far as to label it "pretty good" rather than "just decent" IMO

# ? Oct 28, 2015 16:45

SunAndSpring: Dec 4, 2013

Ferrinus posted:

Oops, I wasn't erudite enough for something fortunate to be true, so something unfortunate is true instead. I'm playing a real RPG and not some hacky Creation World bullcrap.

don't do me like that, Ferrinus

# ? Oct 28, 2015 16:49

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# ? May 23, 2024 22:37

Ferrinus: Jun 19, 2003; i'm finding this quite easy, i guess in part because i'm a fast type but also because i have a coherent mental model of the world

SunAndSpring posted:

don't do me like that, Ferrinus

Sorry, I meant to write "bullass"

# ? Oct 28, 2015 16:50

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