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DStecks posted:The central concept of Assassin's Creed, if you really want to get into it, is that all ideologies are secretly bullshit used by people in power to justify their power. Like, from their very inception, every single one of them. Which, really, is a Glibertarian take on history. It started out as outright Marxist, in the true sense of the word, when it was about the Assassins fighting for freedom from Templar world-domination; but eventually they decided that actually having good guys and bad guys was too political, so you get the Glibertarian ultra-cynicism of the latter games. It's the kind of bullshit moral equivocation that only the truly privileged can write. See also: Bioshock Infinite. Yeah, it's basically peak "Aren't you glad we aren't affected by ideology, unlike those Europeans with all their horrible isms?" upper/middle class nerdy white male tech-libertarianism or neoliberalism icantfindaname has a new favorite as of 15:12 on Oct 28, 2015 |
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Oct 28, 2015 15:10
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DStecks posted:The central concept of Assassin's Creed, if you really want to get into it, is that all ideologies are secretly bullshit used by people in power to justify their power. Like, from their very inception, every single one of them. Which, really, is a Glibertarian take on history. It started out as outright Marxist, in the true sense of the word, when it was about the Assassins fighting for freedom from Templar world-domination; but eventually they decided that actually having good guys and bad guys was too political, so you get the Glibertarian ultra-cynicism of the latter games. It's the kind of bullshit moral equivocation that only the truly privileged can write. See also: Bioshock Infinite. I'm sorry, but if you'll look, it says it's developed by a multi-cultural team. You must be wrong.
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Oct 28, 2015 15:26
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icantfindaname posted:Yeah, it's basically peak "Aren't you glad we aren't affected by ideology, unlike those Europeans with all their horrible isms?" upper/middle class nerdy white male tech-libertarianism or neoliberalism Eh, this stuff isn't just the domain of the upper-middle class nerds. Most of the glibertarians I know are lower-middle class factory workers. ikanreed posted:I'm sorry, but if you'll look, it says it's developed by a multi-cultural team. You must be wrong. Translation: "a black guy wrote the lens flare shader. We even have a few women in our HR department."
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Oct 28, 2015 15:32
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DStecks posted:Most of the glibertarians I know are lower-middle class factory workers. gently caress all those unions who gave me literally everything I have ever had in life, the free market will take care of me! 
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Oct 28, 2015 15:42
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Woolie Wool posted:gently caress all those unions who gave me literally everything I have ever had in life, the free market will take care of me! "We don't need unions anymore, all that stuff is the law now!" - EDIT: I mean I don't want to push a derail along too much but christ does anyone actually believe that a union would force you to NOT help customers in a non-strike situation?
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Oct 28, 2015 15:46
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DStecks posted:Translation: "a black guy wrote the lens flare shader. We even have a few women in our HR department." Chill. I am not actually trying to debate you on the merits of multiculturalism in a mass market video game. It was a joke about how they included that statement, the end.
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Oct 28, 2015 15:47
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DStecks posted:Eh, this stuff isn't just the domain of the upper-middle class nerds. Most of the glibertarians I know are lower-middle class factory workers. In my experience that's a phenomenon of careful messaging by the political right and is more self-consciously ideological than the tech nerd's complete and genuine political naivete and bafflement at why anyone would have different opinions or a different worldview than himself. I think the ideological self-consciousness is a big factor here. Most movement conservative, Limbaugh-listener types I know would readily admit to being ideologues on crusade, whereas the tech nerd would not icantfindaname has a new favorite as of 15:53 on Oct 28, 2015 |
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Oct 28, 2015 15:48
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ikanreed posted:Chill. I am not actually trying to debate you on the merits of multiculturalism in a mass market video game. It was a joke about how they included that statement, the end. That response also seems to be a joke. We're all in on it. Ubisoft is dum.
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Oct 28, 2015 15:49
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icantfindaname posted:both the left and right wing of the Great Nerd Political Slapfight seem horrified that politics of all things could creep into something as innocent as their precious nerd hobbies. the joke's on them though, because everything is political and always has been. welcome to hell given the poo poo ive recently come across, this much is tru-- ... oh wait, im sorry. nobody can be That Thing or have similar politics to That Thing carry on 
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Oct 28, 2015 15:57
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DStecks posted:The central concept of Assassin's Creed, if you really want to get into it, is that all ideologies are secretly bullshit used by people in power to justify their power. Like, from their very inception, every single one of them. Which, really, is a Glibertarian take on history. It started out as outright Marxist, in the true sense of the word, when it was about the Assassins fighting for freedom from Templar world-domination; but eventually they decided that actually having good guys and bad guys was too political, so you get the Glibertarian ultra-cynicism of the latter games. It's the kind of bullshit moral equivocation that only the truly privileged can write. See also: Bioshock Infinite. Before the DLC for some reason it wanted us to sympathize with the WASPs for reasons I can't actually understand. The revolution decides to target you because they quite reasonably think you're an impostor, and then for some reason we're supposed to think that they're bad guys. I don't get it but the narrative clearly thought they were evil even though there was no change in behavior from when it thought they were good guys. Then after the DLC it turns out literally every single named character was secretly an atheist, because well gosh darn they're just too smart to fall for the con job that is religion. Also every even slightly uncomfortable thing the rebels did was set up by the twins who are literally God at this point, for reasons that are too stupid to really explain.
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Oct 28, 2015 15:58
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Want AC2 the one where the producer was a woman and GamerDom lost its poo poo, to the point of simultaneously accusing her of using her gender to sell games and drawing porn of her?
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Oct 28, 2015 16:00
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AC2 was also the one with a fairly well done low key gay romance. Sad that the sequels didn't really do anything with it. Also weren't a truly staggering number of political terms, particularly those used for neo-reactionaries coined during the French Revolution? Wasn't reactionary itself a word from then?
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Oct 28, 2015 16:03
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Parallel Paraplegic posted:"We don't need unions anymore, all that stuff is the law now!" - Unions only care about workers and don't have an insentive to really help their customers (since they can just extort money from their defenseless bosses rather than earn it). Business owners, on the other hand, will always be greatful and benevolent towards people like me since, as a consumer, I have the power to be a capitalist kingmaker. This is basically the argument I got when I've confronted anti-union people. Terrible Opinions posted:AC2 was also the one with a fairly well done low key gay romance. Sad that the sequels didn't really do anything with it. Must have been very low key, because I don't remember it at all. Brotherhood had DLC where you had to save Da Vinci's MizPiz has a new favorite as of 16:10 on Oct 28, 2015 |
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Oct 28, 2015 16:03
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Terrible Opinions posted:AC2 was also the one with a fairly well done low key gay romance. Sad that the sequels didn't really do anything with it.\ wasn't it something in the villa that subsequently got blown the gently caress up
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Oct 28, 2015 16:07
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Terrible Opinions posted:AC2 was also the one with a fairly well done low key gay romance. Sad that the sequels didn't really do anything with it. the French Revolution is basically the beginning of political thought in its modern form and marked the beginning of both the far left and far right as self-conscious ideologies, yes
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Oct 28, 2015 16:09
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Literally The Worst posted:wasn't it something in the villa that subsequently got blown the gently caress up
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Oct 28, 2015 16:10
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Terrible Opinions posted:Are we talking about pre or post DLC Bioshock Infinite, because both of them are bullshit terrible writing, but both are bullshit for entirely different reasons? I only played the base game, where the horrible white racists are horrible for suppressing the black people, and then the black people rise up and massacre the whites, proving the whites were right. It's ~morally grey~
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Oct 28, 2015 16:10
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DStecks posted:I only played the base game, where the horrible white racists are horrible for suppressing the black people, and then the black people rise up and massacre the whites, proving the whites were right. It's ~morally grey~ Yeah that was hilariously bullshit. Did you notice how they removed all the irish and other white rebels as soon as the Vox became your enemy. Clearly this game isn't racist at all.
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Oct 28, 2015 16:14
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DStecks posted:I only played the base game, where the horrible white racists are horrible for suppressing the black people, and then the black people rise up and massacre the whites, proving the whites were right. It's ~morally grey~ So basically "morally grey" means being Robot Santa from futurama? "Mobsters beating up a shopkeeper for protection money! Very naughty. Shopkeepers not paying their protection money - exactly as naughty!"
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Oct 28, 2015 16:16
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i want to play a django unchained game where you are encouraged to kill as many white people as possible
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Oct 28, 2015 16:16
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DStecks posted:I only played the base game, where the horrible white racists are horrible for suppressing the black people, and then the black people rise up and massacre the whites, proving the whites were right. It's ~morally grey~ Comstock was obviously just the obverse of Fitzroy. They couldn't argue this point so they just had Fitzroy hold a white kid at gunpoint.
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Oct 28, 2015 16:16
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Zerilan posted:So basically "morally grey" means being Robot Santa from futurama? "Mobsters beating up a shopkeeper for protection money! Very naughty. Shopkeepers not paying their protection money - exactly as naughty!"
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Oct 28, 2015 16:24
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Heresiarch posted:Want AC2 the one where the producer was a woman and GamerDom lost its poo poo, to the point of simultaneously accusing her of using her gender to sell games and drawing porn of her? Jade Raymond, and the one I remember depicted her game sales as blowjobs she gives to gross desperate fans. It says more about gamers than about Jade Raymond. Actually, most of the cartoons meant to insult her end up depicting gamers as mindlessly sex-obsessed nerds who are pursuing her because she is very attractive, but everyone was supposed to ignore that and just look for the subtext disparaging her administration skills.
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Oct 28, 2015 16:39
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DStecks posted:The central concept of Assassin's Creed, if you really want to get into it, is that all ideologies are secretly bullshit used by people in power to justify their power. Like, from their very inception, every single one of them. Which, really, is a Glibertarian take on history. It started out as outright Marxist, in the true sense of the word, when it was about the Assassins fighting for freedom from Templar world-domination; but eventually they decided that actually having good guys and bad guys was too political, so you get the Glibertarian ultra-cynicism of the latter games. It's the kind of bullshit moral equivocation that only the truly privileged can write. See also: Bioshock Infinite. AC really takes a step further and shows all conflicts (religious, state, national, revolutionary, class) as secret Illuminati power struggles. Which is why it's so toothless despite you playing a Muslim hitman or punching the Pope or working for Karl Marx.
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Oct 28, 2015 16:40
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Terrible Opinions posted:Kinda. For a little bit the rebels are portrayed as completely good and right during tehir revolution, but then with no change of behavior on the rebel's part all fo the poor white rebels disappear and the narrative turns against them. Seriously their behavior doesn't change at all, the narrative and the main characters just decide they're the bad guys. Their leader hold a little kid at gunpoint, but is killed for it immediately. Somehow this means the entire revolution is bad. That's not the point at all. The point was that even a righteous uprising from the oppressed can be taken too far. Levine just hosed it up. That part didn't need to be in there at all. And the later AC games correctly address a similar idea in that not every socio-political group is a homogeneous hive-mind. Any movement or ideology can be hijacked by rear end in a top hat extremists and history proves this. The series would have gotten really boring even sooner than it did if everything was clearly defined megalomaniacs vs ideologically pure progressive rebels. Hell we even see that poo poo on these very forums where people who continually and correctly rail against the death penalty and the prison system turn right around and post their bloodthirsty violent revenge fantasies about rounding up conservatives into death camps in other threads.
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Oct 28, 2015 16:41
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Death camps would be too good for them, actually.Terrible Opinions posted:Kinda. For a little bit the rebels are portrayed as completely good and right during tehir revolution, but then with no change of behavior on the rebel's part all fo the poor white rebels disappear and the narrative turns against them. Seriously their behavior doesn't change at all, the narrative and the main characters just decide they're the bad guys. Their leader hold a little kid at gunpoint, but is killed for it immediately. Somehow this means the entire revolution is bad. Daisy Fitzroy aiming to murder the Industrialist's son just doesn't make any sense at all. It's not like the kid was a Romanov with some hereditary claim to power, that could have been exploited by reactionaries. The kid could have been re-educated. It really was just an obviously shoehorned behavior to draw some weak moral equivalency between the Vox and Fink.
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Oct 28, 2015 16:57
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Bioshock Infinite wanted to do an "all flags are the same in ascension" story, which, okay, that is pretty glibertarian but it's not exactly wrong. The problem is that you cannot loving tell that story in the context of race relations in America. The real life oppression of the real life African Americans was predicated on "if they ever get in power, they're going to take bloody revenge", that notion was one of the driving engines of American racism, so you can't tell a story where that turns out to be 100% right if you don't want to be called racist. It would be like doing a WWII game where it turns out that there really is an international Jewish conspiracy. And it's not that you can't ever do a story like that, but you need to be really, really loving smart, and handle it with some sensitivity and tact; and when it comes down to it Bioshock Infinite is a story about multiverse horseshit, which for some reason used a racist fever dream as window dressing.
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Oct 28, 2015 17:03
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DStecks posted:Bioshock Infinite wanted to do an "all flags are the same in ascension" story, which, okay, that is pretty glibertarian but it's not exactly wrong. The problem is that you cannot loving tell that story in the context of race relations in America. The real life oppression of the real life African Americans was predicated on "if they ever get in power, they're going to take bloody revenge", that notion was one of the driving engines of American racism, so you can't tell a story where that turns out to be 100% right if you don't want to be called racist. It would be like doing a WWII game where it turns out that there really is an international Jewish conspiracy. The tea party sincerely reusing Bioshock Infinite's racist and xenophobic imagery will never not be funny, though. That alone justifies Infinite's existence..
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Oct 28, 2015 17:08
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DStecks posted:It would be like doing a WWII game where it turns out that there really is an international Jewish conspiracy.
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Oct 28, 2015 17:09
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I can cut Bioshock Infinite a little slack because apparently the game wasn't actually finished and they had to mash together something to ship because the publisher wasn't going to wait any longer. You can sort of see bits and pieces of something a little more nuanced in there, but in the end it doesn't hold together and you can't really tell what parts are supposed to be the characters having opinions and which parts are the developers having opinions. Having your audience read a character's opinions as that of the author is a problem with any work of fiction and you have to be really careful about it when dealing with a mass market product because most people just take things at face value. B:I didn't pull it off so its ideology is just a muddled mess.
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Oct 28, 2015 17:13
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chrisoya posted:In the new Wolfenstein games the Nazis are studying and reverse-engineering ancient Jewish artefacts of unimaginable power? It's ok though, they use it to build a cool laser gun and you steal it and kill thousands of Nazis with it. The Dat Yichud are hardly a conspiracy though; it's pretty explicitly stated that they keep to themselves and invent stuff without influencing the outside world.
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Oct 28, 2015 17:24
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Also a game about how all the Nazi superscience is stolen, not a result of their 'ARYAN VIRTUE' or 'SUPERIOR GERMAN ENGINEERING', has to have been an intentional choice to get the whole 'Nazis win the war' thing while trying to avoid glorifying Nazism by it. That they're a pathetic evil sham that stole everything they accomplished is part of the point.
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Oct 28, 2015 17:31
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Night10194 posted:Also a game about how all the Nazi superscience is stolen, not a result of their 'ARYAN VIRTUE' or 'SUPERIOR GERMAN ENGINEERING', has to have been an intentional choice to get the whole 'Nazis win the war' thing while trying to avoid glorifying Nazism by it. That they're a pathetic evil sham that stole everything they accomplished is part of the point. Well yeah, of course. If Wolf:TNO has a central theme, it's "No, seriously, gently caress the Nazis."
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Oct 28, 2015 17:45
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It's a good theme to build around. It also had a side order of 'For gently caress's sake don't forget how close America came to embracing fascism too and that you guys also had some folks who longed for camps and purity' with the Jimi Hendrix sideplot.
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Oct 28, 2015 17:50
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Can we go back to talking about this internet cult that is based around the ideology of neo-fascism?
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Oct 28, 2015 17:51
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Heresiarch posted:I can cut Bioshock Infinite a little slack because apparently the game wasn't actually finished and they had to mash together something to ship because the publisher wasn't going to wait any longer. You can sort of see bits and pieces of something a little more nuanced in there, but in the end it doesn't hold together and you can't really tell what parts are supposed to be the characters having opinions and which parts are the developers having opinions.
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Oct 28, 2015 17:54
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Terrible Opinions posted:The thing is the game being unfinished is entirely Levine's fault. No argument there.
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Oct 28, 2015 17:57
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why does it seem as if all of internet identity politics consist of "Denying what you are while spouting the exact same ideals of said thing you claim you aren't" or "Claim you're said thing while being as  as humanly possible about it"?it is almost always one of the two, like loving clockwork. BornAPoorBlkChild has a new favorite as of 18:05 on Oct 28, 2015 |
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Oct 28, 2015 18:02
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Race Realists posted:why does it seem as if all of internet identity politics consist of "Denying what you are while spouting the exact same ideals of said thing you claim you aren't" or "Claim you're said thing while being as Because most of internet identity politics is garbage. A whole hell of a lot of garbage.
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Oct 28, 2015 18:06
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Terrible Opinions posted:The thing is the game being unfinished is entirely Levine's fault. The man cannot stick to an idea and forces his team to completely reinvent whatever product they're working on with startling frequency. So all of his games end up being unfinished mashups of whatever interesting ideas can be salvaged. When he got to tell a more focused concise story in the Burial at Sea DLC it was even worse and less nuanced. Does Levine ever have any interesting ideas? Or is he lovely at implementing them? Everything that was supposed to be interesting in BS:I's narrative was really poorly conceived, the politics worst of all. To keep things relevant, look at this poo poo: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=az7ZwW1bff8
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Oct 28, 2015 18:24
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