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Grondoth posted:She drinks hella strong wine instead. She seems like the kind of elf that gets drunk swilling wine coolers then insults the rest of the bar until she pukes in a plant and passes out.
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Oct 28, 2015 23:01
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Alkydere posted:Oh, how did the Lizardmen get the shaft? The Skaven blowing up the moon in factionalism and then having most of the chunks land on themselves was pretty damned funny. The Lizardmen's thing has always been that they're the original servants of the Old Ones who created most of the WHF races and have been trying to keep this planet running the way the Old Ones envisioned despite Chaos loving everything up constantly. After the mummified corpse of one of their greatest leaders who is too magical and hardcore to really be fazed by having died thousands of years ago swatted aside most of the falling chunks of the moon, the Lizardmen decided the world was basically unsalvageable, hopped in an Aztec Ziggurat Space Ship and flew off. Later nerdsssssss
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Oct 28, 2015 23:01
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One of my friends who does play the miniatures game told me that Space Marines by themselves outsold the entire of fantasy combined, so I totally get why they'd reinvent that as a business decision, but gently caress - all the fantasy stuff is just so loving cool. But I'm hoping for a huge glut of Warhammer fantasy games now they don't care about revenue cannibalisation to play around in the universe, because there's no way I'd actually buy the miniatures.
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Oct 28, 2015 23:03
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Night10194 posted:They got in their spaceships and peaced out. 
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Oct 28, 2015 23:03
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DreamShipWrecked posted:Out of curiosity from someone who never played Fantasy, how was all of this revealed? Was there a series of End Times official books, or did the next generation's rule book go "rocks fall everyone dies now fantasymarines" There are official books and also addendum rules to Warhammer fantasy for endtimes that reflect some of the changes that happen (The elf teams uniting, Karl Franz getting possessed by Sigmar, Nagash uniting the undead). The books are generally considered pretty universally bad and kill of several HUGELY important named characters offscreen (One of two of whom were main focuses of previous end times books) and give them one line references to their offscreen death in later books. One of these was the Ork leader Grimgor Ironhide who previously stopped the end of the world in the Storm of Chaos campaign by headbutting the head Chaos guy in the dick right before he claimed victory. If you read the d4chan wiki entry on end times it gives you a pretty good idea of what all goes down.
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Oct 28, 2015 23:04
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They also have the main Chaos Guy kill one of the biggest Skaven guys, Thanquol, off screen to try to prove how cool he is. It didn't work, all the 'Archaon easily kills X interesting or fun character' stuff just made him look lamer.
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Oct 28, 2015 23:05
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Killing off Grimgor Ironhide and making Malekith the Secret Bestest Goodguy were probably the two dumbest singular things in the End Times. Grimgor is the best  Good god everything about Malekith what the hell.
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Oct 28, 2015 23:06
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It seems to have been written by the kind of people who think that cause Darth Vader said the death star was going to end the rebel alliance, it should've ended the rebel alliance.
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Oct 28, 2015 23:08
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DeathSandwich posted:One of these was the Ork leader Grimgor Ironhide who previously stopped the end of the world in the Storm of Chaos campaign by headbutting the head Chaos guy in the dick right before he claimed victory. Deserving of special goonish praise because up until that point they'd been on the same side and Grimgor just didn't want the guy to get all the credit.
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Oct 28, 2015 23:13
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Yeah, everything I've heard about End Times sounds stupid as hell, so I'm choosing to ignore it and instead believing that Vermintide is a Terminator 2 style 'change the future' story where your team saved the world through sheer badass-ed-ness. Mostly because the entire game is about fighting the End Times. Games where you kick rear end and take names and then have your victories completely invalidated by story elements beyond your control are not deep or tragic, they're just stupid as hell.
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Oct 28, 2015 23:14
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Grondoth posted:It seems to have been written by the kind of people who think that cause Darth Vader said the death star was going to end the rebel alliance, it should've ended the rebel alliance. In fact there's a board game called Chaos in the Old World where you're all playing as one of the 4 Ruinous Powers (Khorne, Nurgle, Slaanesh, and Tzeentch) in a race to destroy the Old World (including where we are in Vermintide) the fastest. The expansion for it includes the skaven and their God the Horned Rat to play as. Good fun.
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Oct 28, 2015 23:16
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So they had that huge fantasy world setup, with tons of fluff, and then decided to gently caress it all in the hope that Sigmarines sell better ?
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Oct 28, 2015 23:17
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Metos posted:Well I suppose there's only so many times you can write 'and then the champion of chaos decided to go end the world. Oh but he didn't and the world's still ok' before you eventually have to follow through, right? Those guys have been trying to do that for years! Warhammer Fantasy has always been kind of different from 40k. 40k was the grimdark one where a grisly end to All That Is is assured, it's just a question of which flavor of Grisly End was going to ultimately finish off that crapsack galaxy. Warhammer Fantasy didn't really have that sort of fatalism attached. It certainly wasn't cheery but the sense of assured doom simply wasn't there. That's part of why this End Times thing is so damned annoying. The other part is how poorly written and badly handled in general it was.
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Oct 28, 2015 23:18
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Hammerstein posted:So they had that huge fantasy world setup, with tons of fluff, and then decided to gently caress it all in the hope that Sigmarines sell better ? GW are not smart. Or they're the smartest company out there.
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Oct 28, 2015 23:19
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Hammerstein posted:So they had that huge fantasy world setup, with tons of fluff, and then decided to gently caress it all in the hope that Sigmarines sell better ? Well, Fantasy wasn't making them any money so they decided to make a pay-to-win tabletop game in the form of Age of Sigmar, presumably hoping for whales to buy absolutely ridiculous armies.
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Oct 28, 2015 23:20
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Basically, Vermintide reflects Fantasy perfectly. poo poo's gone terrible, rats and monsters are everywhere, but there's no reason a group of heroes can't crack the occasional joke, be buddies, and kill a bazillion ratmen to save the day.
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Oct 28, 2015 23:20
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Metos posted:Well I suppose there's only so many times you can write 'and then the champion of chaos decided to go end the world. Oh but he didn't and the world's still ok' before you eventually have to follow through, right? Those guys have been trying to do that for years! Having the End times reshape the world, change up factions, and set up for a new edition is cool. Completely scrapping the line in a really lame deus ex machina is not. Setting Warhammer 9th edition in a WHFB version of Dark Sun or Fallout woud have been fine and cool. Instead we get bad elemental realms setting with no real connection to the last one. It also really doesn't help that the cool characters were getting killed by really lame ones.
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Oct 28, 2015 23:21
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Captain Oblivious posted:Warhammer Fantasy has always been kind of different from 40k. 40k was the grimdark one where a grisly end to All That Is is assured, it's just a question of which flavor of Grisly End was going to ultimately finish off that crapsack galaxy. This: Warhammer Fantasy was far more hopeful. The forces of chaos have demons, corruption, disease, monsters, magic etc. on their side but are beaten back by the sheer doggedness and determination of humans and the remaining elder races. Thousand year old demons and superhuman champions versus a fisherman from Nuln conscripted into service and handed a handgun who ends up WINNING! There is co-operation, trade and even levity in WHFB compared to "In the grim darkness of the far future, there is only war". Then the Endtimes happened and flushed it down the toilet.
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Oct 28, 2015 23:23
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Dezztroy posted:Well, Fantasy wasn't making them any money so they decided to make a pay-to-win tabletop game in the form of Age of Sigmar, presumably hoping for whales to buy absolutely ridiculous armies. What's funny about this is that "not making any money" really just means "compared to 40k". Warhammer Fantasy was still the the #2 game on the market but by goly it's not doing as good as #1 so we might as well throw a moon into it!
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Oct 28, 2015 23:28
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BombiTheZombie posted:This: Warhammer Fantasy was far more hopeful. The forces of chaos have demons, corruption, disease, monsters, magic etc. on their side but are beaten back by the sheer doggedness and determination of humans and the remaining elder races. Thousand year old demons and superhuman champions versus a fisherman from Nuln conscripted into service and handed a handgun who ends up WINNING! There is co-operation, trade and even levity in WHFB compared to "In the grim darkness of the far future, there is only war". One of my favorite details in the old Mark of Chaos trailer is one of the Empire swordsmen gets knocked over and as the Chaos Warrior is about to kill him, manages to sit up and slam his sword up through a gap in the guy's plate. It happens in a split-second and the camera cuts away after, but that's pretty much the most badass way to go out.
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Oct 28, 2015 23:29
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Man, they could have done such cool stuff but instead they had someone's fanfic Chaos Mary Sue kill off all the cool people because he is just the greatest omg you guys seriously.
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Oct 28, 2015 23:30
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Ironically the biggest problem is that they didn't GW it hard enough and have the end times last for decades. Could have pumped out tons of rule books and stuff as things slowly got worse and worse. Instead they just rushed through so fast they could kill people fast enough.
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Oct 28, 2015 23:31
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BombiTheZombie posted:Elves come in two flavours: The idiot Legolas that gets murdered off screen and then quits, and the tryhard sperglord that has a fit if people don't do exactly as they said, run off alone because they are "that good" then die and ragequit. Had this last night, but with a Saltzpyre, my only guess is they were playing Saltzpyre instead of elf because elf was already taken. They legitimately got angry when we didn't do the ammo room strat for the horn and tried to die repeatedly in protest.
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Oct 28, 2015 23:35
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Metos posted:Well I suppose there's only so many times you can write 'and then the champion of chaos decided to go end the world. Oh but he didn't and the world's still ok' before you eventually have to follow through, right? Those guys have been trying to do that for years! Dunno, they've been doing it in WH40K with Chaos throwing 12 Black Crusades out of the Eye of Terror lead by Abbadon the Armless (his model was infamous for having its arms just fall off). Each time they've been pushed back, turning Abbadon from Armless to Harmless and one giant Starscream in terms of effectiveness. Of course instead of rolling with it, letting the good(ish) guys have their victories and giving Chaos non-Crusade victories they retconned harder than the Tea Party ever has and said "Oh, yeah, the Black Crusades totally weren't aimed at trying to destroy Earth, they only wanted to wreck planets X, Y and Z, which they totes did!" all while playing up the next one which will be different because "13 is evil, you see!"...but to do that they'll have to move the series ahead in time to the 41st millenium and then the series's name won't be accurate anymore! In short, instead of admitting they're not the best writers Games Workshop doubles down like teenagers being told their totally badass fursona (totes original, do not steal) is rather, well, dumb. Basically, as I said, Games Workshop is a company that somehow manages to make money despite themselves. They take themselves too seriously and can't roll with punches and go hyper-critical the moment someone tries to give even constructive criticism. Alkydere fucked around with this message at 23:41 on Oct 28, 2015 |
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Oct 28, 2015 23:39
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GW is the Sonic Team of wargaming.
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Oct 28, 2015 23:41
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Night10194 posted:GW is the Sonic Team of wargaming. That makes us Sonic fans. 
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Oct 28, 2015 23:43
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Alkydere posted:In short, instead of admitting they're not the best writers Games Workshop doubles down like teenagers being told their totally badass fursona (totes original, do not steal) is rather, well, dumb. Basically, as I said, Games Workshop is a company that somehow manages to make money despite themselves. They take themselves too seriously and can't roll with punches and go hyper-critical the moment someone tries to give even constructive criticism. From what I've seen of their design philosophy - for their video games anyway, if not the actual tabletop stuff - it seems like they like just throw poo poo at the wall and see what sticks. Sometimes it works out, sometimes it really doesn't.
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Oct 28, 2015 23:44
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Night10194 posted:GW is the Sonic Team of wargaming. I can't find a good reason to counter this with and it makes me sad, so let's say that at least GW makes -some- good games anymore, even if indirectly.
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Oct 28, 2015 23:46
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So how is age of sigmar selling? Like hotcakes? Somehow I doubt it.
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Oct 28, 2015 23:46
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Alkydere posted:In short, instead of admitting they're not the best writers Games Workshop doubles down like teenagers being told their totally badass fursona (totes original, do not steal) is rather, well, dumb. Basically, as I said, Games Workshop is a company that somehow manages to make money despite themselves. They take themselves too seriously and can't roll with punches and go hyper-critical the moment someone tries to give even constructive criticism. These are the people that called their miniatures "Small glimmering jewels of magic and wonder" in their financial report. They write like Creative Writing 101 dropouts and they refuse to believe that they could be at fault in any way, shape or form. In a fair universe, Warhammer would have been in the hands of competent people.
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Oct 28, 2015 23:47
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BombiTheZombie posted:In a fair universe, Warhammer would have been in the hands of competent people. Seems like it was, at one point, but those people have long ago fled the company or been "disappeared" by the board of trustees
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Oct 28, 2015 23:49
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Games workshop is clearly in trouble as seen by the way they're furiously handing out their IPs to anyone who will make some money for them. See: The goddamn E.Y.E. Divine Cybermancy devs of all the people making a space hulk game.
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Oct 28, 2015 23:50
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Gestalt Intellect posted:Games workshop is clearly in trouble as seen by the way they're furiously handing out their IPs to anyone who will make some money for them. See: The goddamn E.Y.E. Divine Cybermancy devs of all the people making a space hulk game. E.Y.E. is like Warhammer parsed through a bunch of translators high on LSD though. So i'm not quite sure they're the worst pick. Edit: Also, you better not be talking poo poo about that Deathwing game. Because that project looks awesome. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WGmmXd8r4YQ
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Oct 28, 2015 23:50
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Gestalt Intellect posted:Games workshop is clearly in trouble as seen by the way they're furiously handing out their IPs to anyone who will make some money for them. See: The goddamn E.Y.E. Divine Cybermancy devs of all the people making a space hulk game. Actually this is the best decision they've ever made.
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Oct 28, 2015 23:51
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It is, but not for the reasons games workshop thinks it is.
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Oct 28, 2015 23:52
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Chomp8645 posted:What's funny about this is that "not making any money" really just means "compared to 40k". Warhammer Fantasy was still the the #2 game on the market but by goly it's not doing as good as #1 so we might as well throw a moon into it! Space Marines outsold the entire warhammer fantasy line combined. I strongly doubt that Fantasy was still the second biggest game any more. It's not the 80s anymore, there's actually some amount of competition in the wargames market. Granted, nuking the whole setting instead of using the End Times to shake things up and reinvigorate the game was probably the worst possible choice.
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Oct 28, 2015 23:53
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Archonex posted:E.Y.E. is like Warhammer parsed through a bunch of translators high on LSD though. So i'm not quite sure they're the worst pick. Trailers don't count until they have some gameplay to them. VVVV Fair enough. It really is going to be a clusterfuck. I especially liked the crazy sword engravings, very 40k CuddleCryptid fucked around with this message at 00:00 on Oct 29, 2015 |
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Oct 28, 2015 23:54
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DreamShipWrecked posted:Trailers don't count until they have some gameplay to them. That doesn't matter. What matters is there's some sort of hilarious and completely unfitting hip hop music in the trailer. This is encouraging and means it will be incomprehensible in the same way as E.Y.E., which is really the best way for that dev to advertise their games to me at this point.
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Oct 28, 2015 23:58
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Archonex posted:Edit: Also, you better not be talking poo poo about that Deathwing game. Because that project looks awesome. That's not a game that's a trailer. Much like star citizen makes trailers.
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Oct 29, 2015 00:02
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Al Borland posted:That's not a game that's a trailer. Much like star citizen makes trailers. They've already released screenshots of actual game play. Suffice to say that it's much farther along in development than Star Citizen ever was at this stage. I mean poo poo, the game doesn't even have a tentative release date beyond "some time next year" set yet. It's pretty drat early in development and looks amazing so far. It's alright to be excited for something someone is doing with a Warhammer license guys. It won't hurt you. Not until it releases, at least. 
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Oct 29, 2015 00:04
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