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Using f.HP with Ryu is one of my favorite things because people will always hit buttons after if they block it not understanding that they can't, or if you do hit them you can get quite a bit off it. If you have them cornered you can do poo poo like f.HP cl.mp ex tatsu U1, and it hurts. The mp is 1 frame link but it's an easy one. Not as easy as just doing f.hp to dp, but not hard. The best feeling is when you get someone trying to focus attack with it
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Oct 30, 2015 13:47
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The reason it's an 'easy 1f link' is it's actually 2f. If that was a 1f link you'd be better off just using cr.HP instead. Even as a 2f link you're better off using cl.MK which does 10 more damage. I wouldn't be surprised if doing cr.LP, cr.HP xx whatever wasn't more damage.
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Oct 30, 2015 15:32
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evil ryu isnt that bad if you cant hit his hardest poo poo, its good enough for government work
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Oct 30, 2015 15:44
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If you're a garbage e ryu player you can make up for not being able to do real combos at low level by replacing FADC stuff with red focus. Unfortunately that means low forward fireball isn't threatening at all because you can't get sick damage off of that confirm...which removes a huge part of his game. If you're not getting 300 damage off of low forward fireball when you have two meters you'll just get bullied in neutral since there's no reason to be afraid.
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Oct 30, 2015 17:04
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Oct 30, 2015 18:57
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This scrubs journey to SF competence continues! VS Goon Christon Rank match versus Ken Notes: - Slightly better offense on my part. Finally hit a jumping mp -> ultra combo in an actual fight. All that tutorial mode paid off finally. - Ken round 1 shows that I like to see what a player is going to do first, and I'm doing this adaptive play style to see what their game plan is, but sometimes it makes me too passive as I observe, and my defense and offense suffer while I do it, but as you can see in round 2 I use what I'm learning to play better progressively, which can lead to a lopsided match. I make a lot of comebacks as a result. - I still sometimes jump in too much. It's such a bad habit from my arcade mode days. I'm so sorry.  One jump in cost me the Ken match when I should have been more evasive due to my life bar. I wasn't thinking! *bows* - I sometimes still whiff when I want to hadouken. I think that cost me the match with Christon. I really think I could have won! - Finally buying a HORI pad next week and I really hope it helps with my execution/input problems. - Trying to get anti-air and srk down to muscle memory. It's tough though. Like with Hugo, I KNOW that the general strategy is to fb until he gets into my space and then srk to remind him to gently caress off but sometimes my reflexes just aren't up to par.  I definitely need to keep practicing it and I think besides making the REAL dumb mistakes it's my biggest weakness as a player.- Really proud at my corner game. I'm starting to get pretty solid at getting out of corner traps. Sometimes even keeping people in the corner! Jupiter Jazz fucked around with this message at 20:51 on Oct 30, 2015 |
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Oct 30, 2015 20:41
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Alright so it's pretty obvious you're a beginner, a lot lot LOT to work on, but your BIGGEST issues you need to focus on immediately: No anti-air. You're throwing lots of bad fireballs and letting people jump at you for them, and even when you're not doing anything you're letting people get away with jumps. The only thing you're doing to stop that is jumping yourself (which I consider a panic option) with j.MP or j.LK. You *need* to focus on grounded anti-airs, start with baiting people into landing on clean cr.HP's and work your way up to anti-airing with a late HP dp (one of Ryu's best tools, one of his reasons to play him even). Lots of panic DPs/ultras - you're throwing these out in bad ranges and situations as a pure guess, and unfortunately getting rewarded for it in these videos a few times so you might be learning the wrong lesson. The sooner you nip this habit in the bud the better. Fairly related, you also spend a lot of meter for no real reason so you're always dry on EX bars and people can bully you when they have resources and you don't. No hit-confirms - you need to learn at least your basic hit confirms. After you jump in (please use j.MK or j.HP instead of j.MP) you need to make a habit of doing jabs, then linking into HP dp if they're hitting. I'm assuming you might also need to learn some punish combos since I didn't see any, although your opponents didn't give you a ton of opportunities for those. I'd be more than happy to do some online training mode and show you what your beginner combos are and the easiest way to apply them. Also a quick note, when you see your f.HP rush punch thing is hitting, just mash out a HP dp, it will "late" cancel and combo for really good damage off a "random" hit. Right now I see you hitting random buttons that don't combo after that move so you're leaving a lot of damage on the table. There's optimal link-heavy poo poo that you can do after that will take you a while to learn, but mashing a HP dp off that is super easy and will get 80% of "max" damage anyway. As far as analyzing your matches for improvement goes, you should upload losses instead of wins. Those will make your weaknesses far more obvious. At your level the people you're going to win against are also flailing a bunch and seeing what they get hit by doesn't really give you any information about what you're doing that's good, it just tells you they're bad enough to run into dumb stuff! I think you should focus on "how can I stop this thing this player/character beat me with" more than anything else for a while. Trykt fucked around with this message at 21:48 on Oct 30, 2015 |
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Oct 30, 2015 21:45
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After 20 straight losses in ranked, I finally notched my first win.  E: Holy Jesus, I'm not sure what happened with the audio. Jueg01 fucked around with this message at 21:59 on Oct 30, 2015 |
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Oct 30, 2015 21:50
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The game's been terminating itself randomly whenever I'm spectating. I can play matches all day but it usually crashes whenever i spectate 2-3 matches in a row.
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Oct 30, 2015 22:16
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My Evil Ryu is baby tier but I think cl.MP xx MK Axe -> cr.MP xx HP DP (or another character-specific MK Axe followup) is fine after LK Axe FADC on crouching unless you have a clear idea as to what you're going to do with the extra stun/meter. Daigo valued cr.LP -> cl.HP highly even before he had it down consistently because it was part of his plan for taking you *exactly* to dizzy on the resulting mixup, if you're not at that level the easy stuff is enough (two plinkable one-frames in a B&B is easy right?).Trykt posted:You should also listen to any Ryu tips Mio Bison gives. Having read a lot of his advice for the character in the past I can tell he's someone that's put in the time and effort on the character even if it's not his main, he knows and understands a lot of not-obvious solutions to problems Ryu runs into against certain characters. Aww, thanks  I have probably 100,000 words about Ryu stored up but your advice is what newer players need to read! Anyone who wants to learn the poo poo out of Ryu should also check out my impossibly long screed on his normals, there's a lot of nuance to them that can help you out when you run into a wall in specific matchups.From my POV I got a lot of wins with Ryu but I almost always felt like I won because players didn't actually know the matchup, like they think they do, but they give Ryu too much respect in some ways and not enough in others and end up playing into his strengths instead of exploiting his weaknesses. Once people do learn the MU (very few have) Ryu gets to run his basic fireball/DP/pokey jerk gameplan in maybe ~5 matchups and in the other 39 you have to be scrappy, spend your entire life in the lab and bring everything out of Ryu's toolkit to put together wins. IMO even if you take him that far he loses to too many characters in Ultra so I gave up and went Evil a few months ago. My Evil is pretty trash compared to my Nice Ryu but I have more fun losing and leveling up with a strong character than grinding out wins with one I see as weak.
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Oct 30, 2015 22:21
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Trykt posted:I played some of the first SF5 beta on PS4 at Boxcar's house, impressions of the game in general are "wow it's fuckin easy to figure out and do combos" and Ryu hits like a truck, which is cool/fun. Complete speculation but I think Ryu will be a high tier char due to parry, he can defeat high/low and left/right mix-ups with it since it doesn't require any directional input, and hit for a hojillion damage if he has any meter when he gets the parry. Thanks for this. A few noob questions: I just recently realized that hitting a different punch button does a different DP. That sure is good to know. Are there different EX attacks? i.e. does it matter what two punch or kick buttons I hit? The differences in L/M/H DP are obvious, but what are the differences in Fireball? Thanks.
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Oct 30, 2015 23:09
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Snak posted:Thanks for this. ex attacks are generally the same, fireball button determines speed of the projectile
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Oct 30, 2015 23:27
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Sakura's ex-fireballs change depending on which two buttons are pressed, probably a few more I can't think of as well.
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Oct 30, 2015 23:44
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Most EX are the same, but there are some that change depending on if you hit L/M, M/H, or L/H (like Juri's fireballs)
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Oct 30, 2015 23:49
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A couple new player questions about execution: When doing crouching normals as pokes or to cancel into a special like Ryu's cr. MK, should I always be holding down-back in case I need to block? I've never seen people say to do that but a lot of player inputs seem to look like that when I look at my replays vs. better opponents. Also, I'm having trouble with anti-air DPs in response to jump-ins. Are there any tricks, like buffering the input when waiting for a jump-in, or do I just need to get good and speed up my reaction?
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Oct 30, 2015 23:58
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- In general, yeah, most people probably hold down-back instead of down without thinking about it because there's no reason not to. - The latter. Do a whole goddamn shitload of dragon punches over and over in practice mode, facing both directions, until it becomes trivial to do.
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Oct 31, 2015 00:09
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Reactions help a lot when DP-ing an unexpected jump-in but when I'm looking for one I often buffer DP motion, since it's even easier on a hitbox. I can just hold down-back and mash forward while waiting for one.
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Oct 31, 2015 00:23
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Jack Trades posted:Reactions help a lot when DP-ing an unexpected jump-in but when I'm looking for one I often buffer DP motion, since it's even easier on a hitbox. Do not follow this advice.
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Oct 31, 2015 00:28
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There's nothing wrong with buffering DPs unless it's detrimental to some other part of your game. You shouldn't spend all your time in neutral outside of poke ranges buffering, nor should you not learn and practice doing real DPs on reaction without buffering. The best players in the world buffer DPs constantly, some very subtly (Daigo) and some not so much (Bonchan).
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Oct 31, 2015 00:39
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I think the complaint is about hitboxes?
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Oct 31, 2015 03:47
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You cant even do that on hitbox, that's a keyboard only thing. That would result in a reverse DP motion on hitbox, useless.
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Oct 31, 2015 05:43
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I can appreciate buffering, as it makes Hugo's backbreakers MUCH easier to do and allows for a quick switch into low guards.
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Oct 31, 2015 20:39
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The Halloween costumes are out on steam for 20 bucks. Werent we supposed to get those for free for playing in the second SF5 beta?
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Oct 31, 2015 21:07
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^ that was only for ps4
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Oct 31, 2015 21:09
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Foodahn posted:You cant even do that on hitbox, that's a keyboard only thing. That would result in a reverse DP motion on hitbox, useless. it works if you have a unofficial "hitbox". one without a SOD cleaner. which the official hitbox has by default.
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Oct 31, 2015 21:15
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jebeebus posted:^ that was only for ps4 That's basically bullshit.
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Oct 31, 2015 23:04
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jebeebus posted:^ that was only for ps4 in japan
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Oct 31, 2015 23:31
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a country that doesn't even give a gently caress about halloween
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Nov 1, 2015 10:51
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Just more weird marketing poo poo to get Japanese people to buy PS4s I guess.
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Nov 1, 2015 10:55
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Okay time for a  post that I'm sure at least a few people will disagree with! Basically I took the idea of new people starting with Ryu and asking the question of what character should they go to from there if they wanna stick to something similar but emphasize a different style. Note that this is NOT a collection of shotos or even a discussion about shotos because I think that's not relevant at all to the idea of what Ryu actually plays like. I will say these are all basically motion characters with fireball/uppercut/tatsu equivalents that play in a style that I'd consider a more exaggerated version of something Ryu does. I tried to be objective about what Ryu does well and what these characters do better (or worse) but I'm sure I hosed up and forgot some important things so please feel free to add, correct, discuss etc.Short version of the list: Evil Ryu, Poison, Sagat, Fei Long, Akuma I don't wanna get too deep into my justifications for these chars because I think if you think about it they are self evident. Poison and Sagat are emphasis on fireball game (in different ways), Akuma and ERyu are extreme versions of his footsie traits with some penalties, and Fei is maybe the most controversial choice but I think it's easy to see the comparison if you play (as or against) a Ryu that walks forward a lot. Anyway here's a much longer list with some more specific comparisons that might help new people moving on from being a shoeless hobo: Ryu What you get: -Low walk speed, average pokes, difficult to win footsies consistently -Average zoning, loses to several other zoners, can pressure everyone else though -Weak frame traps and hit confirms, needs meter and corner to threaten huge damage -Great at punishing: huge punishment damage, both with and without meter: 2 frame super, 3 frame DP, and Ultra 1’s range give unique punishes in some situations -Can beat safejumps with meterless option due to 3 frame DP -Very strong anti-air: many good options, good damage, can lead to Ultra -Good cross-ups in j.mk and j.lk, both useful and can lead to full combo -Bad forward and back dashes -Relatively poor throw range, even with kara throw -Good health and stun (1000/1000) -Cool rear end karateman. King poo poo of Protagonist Mountain. Evil Ryu What you gain: -Better zoning, meterless multi-hit fireball lets him keep up at full screen -Way better footsies, fast walkspeed and lots of great normals let him control footsie range extremely well. With meter he can hit confirm into huge damage off footsie hits. -cr.mk xx fireball being a true blockstring/combo at basically any range is really good, the fact that it leads to huge damage too is loving ridiculous -Good focus attack, useful on its own and can combo into red focus easily -Even bigger punishment damage than Ryu, especially with meter -EX axe kick is a long range overhead, good for surprise ending a round -Teleport is basically a command backdash, it’s fairly bad but can be a unique escape sometimes. -0 frame grab super, high damage, can be used in mix-ups, great when kara canceled from overhead chop f.mp or hop kick f.mk -Excellent kara throws with far HP and cr.MK -Generally builds more meter than Ryu -Is evil karateman What you lose: -Somewhat worse anti-air damage, both normally and combo into ultra -Cr.mk is significantly slower making it a bad poke up close, ERyu has to be creative with his other normals at close range -EX fireball doesn’t knock down which reduces a lot of its utility. Only really good for hit confirming into U2. -Significantly lower health and stun (900/900) -Is evil karateman Poison What you gain: -Better zoning, amazing fireball game, meaty fireballs and easy fullscreen meter building -Better pressure, frame traps, great damage, especially in the corner -Better mix-ups: overhead into full combo, safe left/right mix-ups with ex flip kick, resets into cross-under with ex rekkas -Anti-fireball ex special move, ex flip kick goes through fireballs and punishes at ⅓ screen -Command backdash, can escape some situations where regular backdash would fail -Higher throw damage, slightly shorter range though -Better mid-range pokes, can whiff punish into full combo from footsie range, amazing focus attack -Generally builds more meter than Ryu What you lose: -Lower health and stun (950/950), unique hurtbox makes up for this slightly -Worse DP, slower with less range, but can still lead to Ultra 1 off trade or FADC -Lower damage anti-air, still with consistent and versatile options though -Less versatile punishment but can still hit for huge damage with meter, especially in corner -Have to pick U2 and have it loaded to beat safejumps, or use her super. -Not a cool karateman protagonist Sagat What you gain: -Better zoning, high and low tiger shots of varying speed can trick the opponent into eating a lot of fireballs, EX shot can lead to Ultra 2 even from fullscreen -DP has insane range, both innately and due to kara-cancel from f.LK and f.HK -Even better anti-air damage: TU hits harder if his feet are off the ground, Tiger Uppercut can have meter dumped into it with Angry Scar and/or EX, Sagat can trade regular TU into f.HK into U1, EX TU can lead to U1 on almost any hit -Stand HK is a great anti-air that doesn’t require him to commit to DP -Good array of mid-range pokes, “the wall”, including a safe, long range low that leads to combo -EX Tiger Knee is fast, breaks armor, safe vs. everything except 0-frame command grabs, can cross up and/or lead to Ultra 1 if spaced properly -neutral j.mk instead overhead, unsafe on hit but good to finish a round -Slightly more health, same stun (1050/1000) -Giant Karateman What you lose: -Very low mobility, has to commit to big normals, specials, or jumps to cover the screen quickly. -DP is slower -Overhead is 1 hit, vulnerable to focus -Big body, vulnerable to lots of fuzzy guard overhead setups -Only option to beat safejumps is LP version of super -j.lk is only cross up, leads to small combo, difficult to make effective; jumps not a big part of his pressure vs. wake up Fei Long What you gain: -Better offensive pressure: ridiculous corner carry built in to every combo, amazing (if a bit short range) whiff punishment, good pokes -Strong mix-up, good frame traps and command grab both lead to great damage -Anti-fireball ex special move, ex chicken wing goes through fireballs and punishes at ½ screen, leads to full combo -Strongly rewards having good reactions -Is still pretty much a karateman protagonist What you lose: -No zoning, obviously, that style is traded for the advancing pressure instead -Bad lows, difficult (but not impossible) to lead to damage with them -Can’t dump meter into punishment for huge damage, punishment still isn’t bad though -DP is slower, still has great invincibility and hitbox and leads to huge damage consistently though -Have to pick U2 and have it loaded to beat safejumps -Overhead is slowish and unsafe on block, only 1 hit. Still not that bad since it’s a hop kick. Akuma What you gain: -Supreme zoning. Meterless multi-hit fireballs, air fireballs, multi-hit air fireballs if you spend meter -Extreme mobility. Very fast walkspeed, dive kick, demon flip; he can reaction punish a fireball from full screen if he has a bar, dude is nuts. -Very good normals: amazing sweep, far HP being special cancellable is cool and strong, far HK is one of the most useful anti-focus normals in the game. His focus attack is good too. -Great damage and corner carry from hit confirms and punishment, good at meterless and can dump meter into almost any hit for good extra damage. His cr.mk xx fireball is almost as scary as Evil Ryu’s -Pressures wake ups extremely well thanks to meaty air fireball, demon flip and air tatsu mix-ups (many variants being “safe” from reversal DP), excellent kara throw with far HP. Fast walkspeed means he can use advantaged normals to pressure his way into a counter hit easily. -0 frame grab super, high damage, can be used in mix-ups, great when kara canceled from overhead chop f.mp -His U1 and U2 can both offer unique punishes, rounds out his match-ups pretty well -Builds tons of meter easily What you lose: -Can’t DP fadc Ultra, at all -Lower anti-air damage, still quite good at it in general though -Very low health/stun (850/850) -cr.mk xx fireball is never a true blockstring -Is the opposite of a cool karateman, basically just a giant shithead, seriously what a neanderthal-lookin’ idiot fucker Trykt fucked around with this message at 02:51 on Nov 3, 2015 |
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Nov 3, 2015 01:58
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I would throw Boxer in there for charge lovers. I also think Akuma is super heavy on set play and is hard as gently caress to play effectively.
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Nov 3, 2015 02:13
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I think Deejay is really fun and easy to use for beginners
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Nov 3, 2015 02:27
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Great post! I'm the new player you describe and you read my mind with this. I know it's not a shoto post, but what about Sakura as a followup character? Cammy also seems fun, though I'll probably stick to shotos for a while until my fundamentals are at least somewhat developed.
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Nov 3, 2015 02:38
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Yeah the greater discussion about which characters are good for beginners overall is much broader and includes a LOT of characters, in fact at this point it's more about who you SHOULDN'T start with since most of the cast is pretty beginner friendly. Sakura and Cammy are both strong characters that are fun to play with easy-ish combos so I would say they are good for beginners. Sakura is nothing like Ryu! Goodpart posted:I also think Akuma is super heavy on set play and is hard as gently caress to play effectively. Yeah something I should have stated is that I was going with the assumption that you're willing to put in the work and learn the combos/etc. for the characters. All things being equal if you can do 1 frame links and whatever between all those chars, that's how I see them. Every single one has some executionally difficult thing that will become a necessity at some point, it's just with some chars it will be more common (Poison's BnB involving a 1 framer) vs. relatively rare (linking off Sagat f.LK) Also I think Akuma has a lot of room for interpretation as a character and doesn't have to lean on setplay to win. Before Ultra SF4 it was too good NOT to do it, you were stupid not to, but now even when you can do it safely you might be giving up a positional advantage for not-a-hit and not everyone would make that bet. I've come to see him as "Advanced Ryu" gameplay-wise, in a lot of ways, and was the character I was most recently trying to learn back when I was still playing this a lot. I think I probably should have picked him up more seriously years ago. Trykt fucked around with this message at 02:59 on Nov 3, 2015 |
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Nov 3, 2015 02:45
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I tried to pick up Akuma but I could mentally never get past how safe and careful you have to play him or just die. Ryu/Sagat really reward playing very brazenly at times, throwing dangerous fireballs, going for DP's and being unpredictable, saying gently caress you to set-ups to try and tag a trade LP DP, whereas Akuma you basically want to Never Ever Do Any Of That Ever. Even small stuff like a questionable DP of a jump-in is a huge problem because Akuma's DP has much weaker horizontal range and you suffer so much more if you guess wrong.
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Nov 3, 2015 03:16
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I would not say Sagat has better zoning than Ryu anymore IMO
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Nov 3, 2015 03:33
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Nodoze posted:I would not say Sagat has better zoning than Ryu anymore IMO On a purely fireball basis? Maybe not, but his normals are great for keeping out, and he has better anti-air trade scenarios. He's a good zoner.
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Nov 3, 2015 04:33
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Periodiko posted:I tried to pick up Akuma but I could mentally never get past how safe and careful you have to play him or just die. Ryu/Sagat really reward playing very brazenly at times, throwing dangerous fireballs, going for DP's and being unpredictable, saying gently caress you to set-ups to try and tag a trade LP DP, whereas Akuma you basically want to Never Ever Do Any Of That Ever. Even small stuff like a questionable DP of a jump-in is a huge problem because Akuma's DP has much weaker horizontal range and you suffer so much more if you guess wrong. This is a good point, Akuma's health and lack of follow-ups on DPs makes the risk/reward on guessing that poo poo really awful. It's a habit you have to kick really fast to play him.
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Nov 3, 2015 05:29
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I've always thought of Juri as Different Ryu (and Juicebox has said similar stuff) but I think she's definitely frustrating for beginners, just because you need to be so comfortable with most of her toolset before you stop getting stomped.
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Nov 3, 2015 06:09
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I wanna sell more players this Rose bridge I've invested on, and I don't think it's that terrible of an idea if you want "basic character, but different". Soul Satellite does hide your (my) bad footsies tho.
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Nov 3, 2015 06:27
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